I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
I've banged a lot of people in a lot of weird places.
desu
desu
-
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The Big Ass Superior Thread of Learning Japanese
- Thread starter RevenantKioku
- Start date
- Status
stump sock
Member
but did you ever get busy in a burger king bathroom?
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
In a decade I only had bk once in jland. I remember exactly when and where. I remember a lot of weird shit.
AmethystEnd
Member
Okay, I just ctrl-f'ed "donqi" on the past several pages and got nothing. Googling the word gave me this:
So did I miss a conversation where someone banged someone in a windmill?
So did I miss a conversation where someone banged someone in a windmill?
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
i banged a jet in a donki once, whatever man
AmethystEnd
Member
Pffffff.
What to do in Ikebukuro:
Take the train to Takedanobaba, Shinjuku or Shibuya and do something there.
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
All 3 of those places combined don't have as much life as just the sunshine area.. ikebukuro is basically the capital of the world
flatearthpandas
Member
I'm really not... what have I done? My coworkers are either too boring or too hardcore though. No middle ground. It's either staying at home or hitting s&m meetups in shinjuku. I did think about going to one meeting.
It's not all that bad.
Though I wouldn't say this either. Need to get my shit together here, I guess. Lived in shibuya for about five months before moving to Ikebukuro.
AmethystEnd
Member
Resilient isn't being serious. Don't worry about it. Just...just calm down and back away from sharp implements.
Aizo
Banned
My friends and I have coincidentally been using J語 and Jland for years. My old roommate calls Japanese people Js, even though she was born and raised here. That one sounds a bit less friendly... or maybe it's just the way she uses it.
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
I didn't invent J-, that's an expat thing from at least the early 90s before you were probably even born. But all my other dumb westernized names for places are copyright me. When channeling our faux racism, my wife prefers Algren's delightful 'japo.'
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
http://www.hark.com/clips/wlxcwzgtms-ill-kill-whoever-you-want
Classic film. We should all aspire to Algren's commitment to immersion.
Classic film. We should all aspire to Algren's commitment to immersion.
Porcile
Member
Anecdotal evidence but when I read and correct blog posts on lang-8, I see a lot of Japanese people use " Japanese" on its own when they write in English, which obviously stems from the way they write their own language. So it might come from Westen people talking to English speaking Japanese people and just mimicking the incorrect way they refer to themselves.
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
Been reading https://www.reddit.com/r/japanlife and https://www.reddit.com/r/japancirclejerk all morning. (i know, but this reddit shit is new to me since im too buzy being a millionaire)
This shit is hilarious. I wish reddit was around when I had time to be more of an internet troll.
Does anyone here other than zef even know who Debito is lol. He is a legend from decades ago.
This shit is hilarious. I wish reddit was around when I had time to be more of an internet troll.
Does anyone here other than zef even know who Debito is lol. He is a legend from decades ago.
flatearthpandas
Member
I've noticed this as well but it's never bothered me. I don't think I've heard it done as a means of being disrespectful. The yank thing is just strange because, if we do use the word, it's usually only referring to people from a certain region of the country. I don't know if this is widespread but I've seen some amusing reactions to English people being called British. Even better than calling them Australian.
Porcile
Member
Being a millionaire means being busy spending time on GAF and not having enough time to spend on reddit?
I've read some funny stories on that Japan reddit. Like the fucking dumbass that went psychotic in a kouban and just wrecked it for no reason.
Debito is still around I think.
I've read some funny stories on that Japan reddit. Like the fucking dumbass that went psychotic in a kouban and just wrecked it for no reason.
Debito is still around I think.
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
Unfortunately my gaf posting is highly diminished too. You can see the trends in my posting history over the years. Now I post like in two threads and every couple months I don't post for weeks due to being on business trips. Technically that's all over now since I'm heading back in spring. The furthest I'll go now is inside the US. But probably for half of next year I won't be on here at all as I figure out where to buy a new house and deal with the move back. I'll have to sell my Osaka condo as well since the rental income isn't enough with the maintenance costs since I can't manage it in person. Though we might just keep it to have.
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
So here's the guide I promised for a while. It is long. It didn't have to be this long, but I wanted it to be. This is for someone wanting to dedicate themselves to Japanese to be at a level where they can genuinely read/listen (not speak) at a comfortable level at an accelerated pace. It is not for casual learners and it requires time and dedication. I know not everyone here cares about the JLPT, but this study will without a doubt allow you to pass at least JLPT2 without an issue. Our goal is 3 months, but 4-5 is fine too. In the beginning you may only study 1-2 hours, but by the end you will need to study at least 3 hours a day. Every day. There's no cheat days (minus obvious emergencies and issues). 3-5 months is such a short time in the grand scheme of our lives. Can you really not do something for a few fucking months?
The months that I followed this style of study essentially changed my life. It's the sole reason I am where I am in life. Such a small sacrifice for a lifetime of reward. Again, think of it like a diet. Shock your body in the beginning to make it used to it, then slowly make it just become a normal part of your life. Second nature. After the 3-5 months you will be able to learn new concepts so much more easily.
Nothing I say in here will be revolutionary. But if you do exactly what I write, I promise it will net you a result you haven't had before. The only way it doesn't is either you don't follow what I say, or you simply don't have the aptitude for learning languages and it requires even more effort on your part. This is a reality some face, and I fully disclose that I was bilingual before I ever started Japanese - an obvious advantage.
Just for simplicity's sake, Japanese is to me is divided into:
Reading/Writing (kanji), Listening, Speaking/Writing (composition), Thinking
Let's leave thinking alone for now as it's a completely separate topic that comes much later. The two things I can really focus on that will relate to most is the first two. Speaking/Writing is something that is incredibly important to the Thinking portion but I understand that it requires an ideal situation for most. It is incredibly hard for some people to have live, native Japanese people to practice with. You can do your best with all of technology's marvels, but in the end this will be the thing people struggle with the most. And it sucks, because it's the key to the switch that allows your brain to really think in another language. The biggest issue with Japanese is that the way you learn it and the way you use it are very, very different and this only becomes apparent when you do have ways of practicing it in natural settings (ie, not classes, message boards, penpals, etc). Settings where you don't have time to formulate sentences over and over, but are rather forced into actually making your brain express yourself in Japanese in the moment.
As a result, my original idea to make this guide be about production is just not feasible. I realize for most people here the goal is consumption. That's just how it is, so I'll cater to it. We can have a separate guide/post for the other two some time later.
Back on topic, all I can really go over here is Reading/Writing in a vocab/kanji sense and Listening (in a future post, because this shit is too long). To be fair, these are obviously incredibly important as well - especially the reading. Being able to understand is the key to being able to express. Imitation is the best way of learning. Reading or hearing something you think is useful, taking note of it, and then trying to use it will be your primary way of learning (just not language, but anything).
Reading/Writing (kanji):
What you will need:
Our goal here is simple, we want to be able to read Japanese at an almost native level by the end. This ability will open up so. many. doors. that I just can't put it into words enough. Forget your fuckin games and manga, you will be able to do so many of life's basic things that you could easily live in Japan without anyone holding your hand. Read listings for a job or apartment you want, understand details of agreements or contracts you sign up for, know what all of the signs and posters around you say, know all of the options at your bank.
You know all those people on gaf that say 'I learned English by playing English rpgs all day when I was a kid! Yeah me!' English has 26 letters.
English has 26 letters.
You're about to learn about 6000 individual characters, grammar points, and vocabulary in 3 months. And retain it.
Here's how. We're going to do three things. Learn kanji/vocab, learn grammar, read. I suggest beginning your studies with the kanji because it will allow you to 1. write the vocab and 2. write the grammar when you get to it. You never want to write anything but Japanese - meaning kana and kanji. No English on your whiteboard.
Kanji/vocab
What you really want to accomplish here is learning kanji along with vocab at the same time. This will get your word bank up in a much quicker fashion than studying words completely alone, and will make kanji easier to remember as well since you will associate them with words.
I've never used this site before, but here is an example of the type of list I'd expect you to use: http://www.jlptstudy.com/N2/N2_kanji.html
You want kanji, common words, meanings to common words. You also want stroke order, but you might have to look that up separately. Stroke order is important because by about a month into your study you won't have to look it up ever for another kanji basically forever. You will simply know how to write a kanji by looking at its radicals. But it's important to know the stroke order because it will help you retain the kanji and also help you not be a lazy ass motherfucker.
Even if you are not a beginner, I suggest starting with JLPT4 kanji because it will help keep your study all encompassing. By the end of this process you will have this photographic memory of all the stuff you studied from the sheer repetition. There is no reason not to just include it all, rather than start at some arbitrary point.
Every day we learn 25 kanji and their associated common words. In short, you will learn about ~60 unique items of kanji/vocab every day. On the first day you begin with 25. Sun, moon, one, two, three, etc. You write the kanji, learn the stroke order, write the common words, learn the common word pronunciation/meaning, and repeat over and over until you have them in your short term memory. Your goal is to be able to quickly write the common words without looking at anything but your vocab list.
Let me clarify this. When we introduce each new kanji, we write just the kanji with the stroke order for a few minutes. Then once we know how to write the kanji, our goal is to learn the common word associated with it and write that. The kanji are simply what create the word. You'll realize quickly most words are more than just the one kanji you're learning, and sometimes the other kanji aren't even on your immediate list. Here's where you need to make a judgment call. You can either choose to learn the other new kanji with the word or wait until you eventually get to the kanji on whatever list you're using where more likely than not your common word will appear again.
Let's use an example. We come across the kanji 車. We learn the word car, but we also learn 自転車. Ji and ten are not in our 25 kanji today, but you obviously want to learn that the word is ji-ten-sha. Now, do you add 自転車 to your common words list to write today (meaning you learn how to write ji and ten) or do you wait until you come across at least one more of them naturally in your study before you add it to your writing list. Inevitably 自転車 will be on your writing list, the question is just when.
How many common words do we associate with each kanji? Good question. Because we want to learn vocab, the truth is it'd be great if we could do every single word on whatever list you use, preferably a list that is including JLPT vocab. The list I linked above with the kanji should be giving you common words that are required for the JLPT. However, for time and common sense, eventually certain words will become too simple for you and the need to recite them will not exist. But, because we're not just learning vocab, but also kanji, every kanji must have at least one word associated with when you practice your writing list so that we ensure we hit every kanji daily.
'you mentioned a writing list.. da fuq is a writing list..'
Your first day of kanji study will be the only day you don't do your writing list. Starting from the second day, the first thing you do is write the common words from the previous day (by referring to some sort of master list, like the Japanese readings or the English meanings, whatever, as long as you're not looking at the actual kanji because you want to write the words from memory, not from copying). You must assign at least one master common word to each kanji, but you can do every single common word as practice (preferred until the word is truly ingrained). You can of course look at the words/kanji/meanings when you don't remember. But you're trying to commit them to memory by at least the third day of doing your writing list for each kanji.
In the beginning it will probably take only 5 minutes to do your writing list. Car, person, sun, etc. Then you learn your next 25 kanji and related vocab. Practice them. Finished. Then the next day, you write every common word you learned from ALL previous days. Next 25. Practice. Then writing list. Again and again.
Eventually what happens is writing all of the previous kanji takes longer than the hour or so you take for the new 25. I used to do kanji ever morning at 9. In the beginning I'd be done by like 10. By the end I would be working on kanji from like 9am-noon simply because of how long it took me to get through the cumulative list. I'm talking at least 2 hours of nothing but quizzing myself on previous kanji/vocab before I started anything new.
I'm sure someone is thinking.. 'that's it? I've followed the 10 new kanji a day method before.' But did you incorporate the writing, the vocab, the reciting, and dedicate hours to it? Did you overcome the challenge of going through even the simple kanji for the 900th time? Did you have the discipline to do this every single day for months? Even when the entire process eventually takes hours? And your feet hurt because you've been standing the entire time (because you're not a lazy motherfucker)? And your wrist hurts like hell because you're writing literally thousands of words every day near the end?
Every. Day. No excuses. If you can't do morning, do night. 25 kanji a day, 7 days a week, 4 weeks, an average of 700 kanji a month + thousands of vocab, takes a good 3-4 months to do. By the last few weeks you will be writing basically every jouyou kanji daily. The language will COMPLETELY CHANGE when you have these under your belt.
Again. White board. 25 kanji and associated words until you have them in your short term memory. The next day, redo from memory ALL the previous learned words and add on another 25. Do this every day until you complete the entire list. The last kanji on the list practice for at least 3 days after learning. Then you're done. Stop.
You will never have to study kanji or words again like this for the rest of your life because you will have such a giant bank that adding new ones to it takes minimal effort.
This is boring. This is just memorization. This is just repetition.
Yes. And you will only do it for a few months. A few short fucking months and you will know enough vocab and kanji to be on equal footing with a native 18 year old. Three months to completely change your level of understanding. Stop crying.
Grammar
We treat grammar like vocabulary. That is, each grammar point is something to be remembered as if it were a simple word, and then you move on to the next. Example:
はず or べき
You understand what these mean, you understand their formation, you find/read a couple examples. You write it on your white board. Done. You can literally learn these grammar points in 5 minutes each.
Hazu means this. Here's the formation. If I see it, understand it as this. The end.
Some grammar are very quick like this, and then are some that are more complex like ..うと..まいと where there are multiple parts. It doesn't matter. You can still memorize JLPT1 grammar the same way.
So how do we learn them? 10 grammar points a day. Using whatever resource you have, you learn the grammar point, understand how to form it, and then simply write the grammar point on your white board while reciting the definition. If you want to maybe copy an example sentence on to the whiteboard as well, that's fine, but obviously takes more time. What we're trying to do is treat grammar as these tiny tools that we can use when the situation needs - exactly like a word. If you were in a store and wanted an apple, what would you ask the clerk for? Ringo. It pops in your head. Similarly, if you wanted to tell someone that they should do something, what pops in your head? Beki.
On the first day you do 10. The next day, you begin your grammar study be reviewing the prior day's 10 and writing them on the white board. When I say write, I mean in Japanese the way you see them. Hiragana, kanji, everything. You then learn your new 10. The next day you go over the previous 20, and so on and so forth. You never begin learning your new 10 until you have gone through EVERY grammar point from before. Before you know it, going through every grammar point from prior takes an hour.
For beginners, obviously begin from a JLPT4 level of grammar. Even for non-beginners you might as well start from the bottom (like drizzy) so you're encompassing all grammar points. By day 4 or 5 you will say 'fuck this, I don't want to go over the first 40 grammar points, I've done them before, this is boring'. You have failed the method and can stop studying. Fuck off now, please.
We go over every. single. prior. learned. point every day before we learn another 10.
We're trying to make grammar be as simple as learning vocab. Grammar points as tools are easier to manage than these giant complex ideas. Let me help you visualize it. Here's jgram, a site I actually used in the early 2000s and even contributed example sentences too (through breen). I have no clue whether it's been updated or not or how recent it is, but here's the jlpt2 list they have:
http://www.jgram.org/pages/viewList.php?lv=2
See how each grammar point is short and sweet in list form? Point, formation, meaning, example. You could read every grammar point here in less than an hour. You have now read every major grammar point needed to be at an advanced level of Japanese. In less than an hour. When you picture Japanese like this, it seems way, way easier. If you can get through this list (along with the previous levels' lists, and, if you want, the one after) then you can genuinely understand more than 90% of anything in written Japanese (the remaining 10% is still quite large but is really specific stuff).
Again. Review any previous points learned. Then take a new 10. Read them, learn them, write them on your whiteboard. Do this until you complete the list. The last 10 on your list should be repeated at least 3 days before you feel comfortable with it. Then you're done. Stop.
This is boring. This is just memorization. This is just repetition.
Yes. And you will only do it for 3 months. Three short fucking months and you will know MORE than the required grammar you need to carry a basic convo or watch tv. Three months to completely change your level of understanding. Stop crying.
Reading
Read. Just read. In the beginning, read simple stuff, later on, read intermediate stuff, then read some advanced stuff. I think we've gone over plenty of example reading stuff in this thread that I don't need to dedicate a giant section to it. I won't tell you what to read or how long to. Just read.
Reading is what will SOLIDIFY THE KANJI, VOCAB, AND GRAMMAR YOU STUDIED BY SEEING IT IN A NATURAL CONTEXT.
The ONE big thing I did was this. When I came across a word or kanji I didn't know, I'd look up the meaning/reading and add it to a separate list than my kanji/vocab list. There's a very high chance that the word/kanji is indeed on your kanji list, just maybe not until an advanced level. So again you have a choice. Just learn the word and meaning and wait until you encounter it in your kanji study, or you go through the full blown process of learning the kanji and practicing the word as if it were on your writing list. Regardless of what method you choose, by doing a bit of kanji/vocab study like this in your reading, you will significantly reduce the time it takes to learn new kanji during your kanji study.
Example. You read 必要 in something. You learn how to read it and what it means, and write the kanji a few times, but basically put it out of your mind for now. A few weeks later on during your kanji study 必 is one of your kanji and you spend much less time with it since it's familiar and 必要 is one of the words.
All of these small things add up so that you're not spending as much time on the learning part but way more on the retaining it part. Reading will eventually be something you just do naturally and not have to dedicate a specific time slot for.
Final Note
So I did the above stuff every day for about 3 months. My schedule looked like this:
~9am - kanji/vocab
~10am - grammar
~11am - reading
~noon - other stuff not covered in this post
However, like I mentioned above in each section, eventually each section takes longer and longer. I was spending ~3 hours on kanji alone near the end. The trade off is you will finish grammar much, much earlier than kanji due to there being much less. Once you've finished your grammar list, you're done. Then it's just up to you how you maintain it - the obvious method being reading. Once you finish your kanji list, you're done. You don't keep writing all 2k kanji every day. You're done. You simply maintain it in a different way - reading.
Reading is the only thing you will continue after you're done with kanji/grammar. And you can do that for 10 minutes or 10 hours.
You will never write on a whiteboard ever again after these few months. Never. I promise. I haven't once. Never once.
I'll make a listening post some time later when I have time, but it will NOT be as lengthy as this. The reason I wrote this one so lengthy is because I wanted you to feel like I was pushing you while you read this. I could have written this post in probably 3-4 paragraphs and gotten the same exact method across. But I wanted you to understand the actual thought process behind all of this to see how much discipline it takes to keep at it. If you can't even read this post, you sure as fuck can't get on my study level.
The months that I followed this style of study essentially changed my life. It's the sole reason I am where I am in life. Such a small sacrifice for a lifetime of reward. Again, think of it like a diet. Shock your body in the beginning to make it used to it, then slowly make it just become a normal part of your life. Second nature. After the 3-5 months you will be able to learn new concepts so much more easily.
Nothing I say in here will be revolutionary. But if you do exactly what I write, I promise it will net you a result you haven't had before. The only way it doesn't is either you don't follow what I say, or you simply don't have the aptitude for learning languages and it requires even more effort on your part. This is a reality some face, and I fully disclose that I was bilingual before I ever started Japanese - an obvious advantage.
Just for simplicity's sake, Japanese is to me is divided into:
Reading/Writing (kanji), Listening, Speaking/Writing (composition), Thinking
Let's leave thinking alone for now as it's a completely separate topic that comes much later. The two things I can really focus on that will relate to most is the first two. Speaking/Writing is something that is incredibly important to the Thinking portion but I understand that it requires an ideal situation for most. It is incredibly hard for some people to have live, native Japanese people to practice with. You can do your best with all of technology's marvels, but in the end this will be the thing people struggle with the most. And it sucks, because it's the key to the switch that allows your brain to really think in another language. The biggest issue with Japanese is that the way you learn it and the way you use it are very, very different and this only becomes apparent when you do have ways of practicing it in natural settings (ie, not classes, message boards, penpals, etc). Settings where you don't have time to formulate sentences over and over, but are rather forced into actually making your brain express yourself in Japanese in the moment.
As a result, my original idea to make this guide be about production is just not feasible. I realize for most people here the goal is consumption. That's just how it is, so I'll cater to it. We can have a separate guide/post for the other two some time later.
Back on topic, all I can really go over here is Reading/Writing in a vocab/kanji sense and Listening (in a future post, because this shit is too long). To be fair, these are obviously incredibly important as well - especially the reading. Being able to understand is the key to being able to express. Imitation is the best way of learning. Reading or hearing something you think is useful, taking note of it, and then trying to use it will be your primary way of learning (just not language, but anything).
Reading/Writing (kanji):
What you will need:
- Some resource that has all kanji and grammar needed up to JLPT2 (meaning everything before it as well), but preferably JLPT1. Don't care how you obtain this (random website, buy a textbook), just get it. You don't have to use the JLPT list, but you do need some comprehensive list. We're basically talking about jouyou. If it comes with English translations, great, if not, you'll get serious practice by looking everything up, but it will considerably add to your study time.
I do recommend the Kanzen Master series, though I can only vouch that it used to be good, not that it still is. You do not have to spend a dime to get this stuff, but if you like having physical references, go for it.
- A whiteboard and some markers, erasers, etc. I don't suggest paper simply because it will take too much time and create waste. A whiteboard is infinite paper. I suggest mounting it on a wall. You will do all of your studying standing. You lazy motherfucker.
- Some type of dictionary. While we are not overly concerned about J->E, you will obviously have to know the basic meanings of grammar and vocab you learn if they are not readily available, and you should always stay curious and look up anything you don't know. Even a DS and the usual suspects will work. However, Jim Breen is all you really need.
Our goal here is simple, we want to be able to read Japanese at an almost native level by the end. This ability will open up so. many. doors. that I just can't put it into words enough. Forget your fuckin games and manga, you will be able to do so many of life's basic things that you could easily live in Japan without anyone holding your hand. Read listings for a job or apartment you want, understand details of agreements or contracts you sign up for, know what all of the signs and posters around you say, know all of the options at your bank.
You know all those people on gaf that say 'I learned English by playing English rpgs all day when I was a kid! Yeah me!' English has 26 letters.
English has 26 letters.
You're about to learn about 6000 individual characters, grammar points, and vocabulary in 3 months. And retain it.
Here's how. We're going to do three things. Learn kanji/vocab, learn grammar, read. I suggest beginning your studies with the kanji because it will allow you to 1. write the vocab and 2. write the grammar when you get to it. You never want to write anything but Japanese - meaning kana and kanji. No English on your whiteboard.
Kanji/vocab
What you really want to accomplish here is learning kanji along with vocab at the same time. This will get your word bank up in a much quicker fashion than studying words completely alone, and will make kanji easier to remember as well since you will associate them with words.
I've never used this site before, but here is an example of the type of list I'd expect you to use: http://www.jlptstudy.com/N2/N2_kanji.html
You want kanji, common words, meanings to common words. You also want stroke order, but you might have to look that up separately. Stroke order is important because by about a month into your study you won't have to look it up ever for another kanji basically forever. You will simply know how to write a kanji by looking at its radicals. But it's important to know the stroke order because it will help you retain the kanji and also help you not be a lazy ass motherfucker.
Even if you are not a beginner, I suggest starting with JLPT4 kanji because it will help keep your study all encompassing. By the end of this process you will have this photographic memory of all the stuff you studied from the sheer repetition. There is no reason not to just include it all, rather than start at some arbitrary point.
Every day we learn 25 kanji and their associated common words. In short, you will learn about ~60 unique items of kanji/vocab every day. On the first day you begin with 25. Sun, moon, one, two, three, etc. You write the kanji, learn the stroke order, write the common words, learn the common word pronunciation/meaning, and repeat over and over until you have them in your short term memory. Your goal is to be able to quickly write the common words without looking at anything but your vocab list.
Let me clarify this. When we introduce each new kanji, we write just the kanji with the stroke order for a few minutes. Then once we know how to write the kanji, our goal is to learn the common word associated with it and write that. The kanji are simply what create the word. You'll realize quickly most words are more than just the one kanji you're learning, and sometimes the other kanji aren't even on your immediate list. Here's where you need to make a judgment call. You can either choose to learn the other new kanji with the word or wait until you eventually get to the kanji on whatever list you're using where more likely than not your common word will appear again.
Let's use an example. We come across the kanji 車. We learn the word car, but we also learn 自転車. Ji and ten are not in our 25 kanji today, but you obviously want to learn that the word is ji-ten-sha. Now, do you add 自転車 to your common words list to write today (meaning you learn how to write ji and ten) or do you wait until you come across at least one more of them naturally in your study before you add it to your writing list. Inevitably 自転車 will be on your writing list, the question is just when.
How many common words do we associate with each kanji? Good question. Because we want to learn vocab, the truth is it'd be great if we could do every single word on whatever list you use, preferably a list that is including JLPT vocab. The list I linked above with the kanji should be giving you common words that are required for the JLPT. However, for time and common sense, eventually certain words will become too simple for you and the need to recite them will not exist. But, because we're not just learning vocab, but also kanji, every kanji must have at least one word associated with when you practice your writing list so that we ensure we hit every kanji daily.
'you mentioned a writing list.. da fuq is a writing list..'
Your first day of kanji study will be the only day you don't do your writing list. Starting from the second day, the first thing you do is write the common words from the previous day (by referring to some sort of master list, like the Japanese readings or the English meanings, whatever, as long as you're not looking at the actual kanji because you want to write the words from memory, not from copying). You must assign at least one master common word to each kanji, but you can do every single common word as practice (preferred until the word is truly ingrained). You can of course look at the words/kanji/meanings when you don't remember. But you're trying to commit them to memory by at least the third day of doing your writing list for each kanji.
In the beginning it will probably take only 5 minutes to do your writing list. Car, person, sun, etc. Then you learn your next 25 kanji and related vocab. Practice them. Finished. Then the next day, you write every common word you learned from ALL previous days. Next 25. Practice. Then writing list. Again and again.
Eventually what happens is writing all of the previous kanji takes longer than the hour or so you take for the new 25. I used to do kanji ever morning at 9. In the beginning I'd be done by like 10. By the end I would be working on kanji from like 9am-noon simply because of how long it took me to get through the cumulative list. I'm talking at least 2 hours of nothing but quizzing myself on previous kanji/vocab before I started anything new.
I'm sure someone is thinking.. 'that's it? I've followed the 10 new kanji a day method before.' But did you incorporate the writing, the vocab, the reciting, and dedicate hours to it? Did you overcome the challenge of going through even the simple kanji for the 900th time? Did you have the discipline to do this every single day for months? Even when the entire process eventually takes hours? And your feet hurt because you've been standing the entire time (because you're not a lazy motherfucker)? And your wrist hurts like hell because you're writing literally thousands of words every day near the end?
Every. Day. No excuses. If you can't do morning, do night. 25 kanji a day, 7 days a week, 4 weeks, an average of 700 kanji a month + thousands of vocab, takes a good 3-4 months to do. By the last few weeks you will be writing basically every jouyou kanji daily. The language will COMPLETELY CHANGE when you have these under your belt.
Again. White board. 25 kanji and associated words until you have them in your short term memory. The next day, redo from memory ALL the previous learned words and add on another 25. Do this every day until you complete the entire list. The last kanji on the list practice for at least 3 days after learning. Then you're done. Stop.
You will never have to study kanji or words again like this for the rest of your life because you will have such a giant bank that adding new ones to it takes minimal effort.
This is boring. This is just memorization. This is just repetition.
Yes. And you will only do it for a few months. A few short fucking months and you will know enough vocab and kanji to be on equal footing with a native 18 year old. Three months to completely change your level of understanding. Stop crying.
Grammar
We treat grammar like vocabulary. That is, each grammar point is something to be remembered as if it were a simple word, and then you move on to the next. Example:
はず or べき
You understand what these mean, you understand their formation, you find/read a couple examples. You write it on your white board. Done. You can literally learn these grammar points in 5 minutes each.
Hazu means this. Here's the formation. If I see it, understand it as this. The end.
Some grammar are very quick like this, and then are some that are more complex like ..うと..まいと where there are multiple parts. It doesn't matter. You can still memorize JLPT1 grammar the same way.
So how do we learn them? 10 grammar points a day. Using whatever resource you have, you learn the grammar point, understand how to form it, and then simply write the grammar point on your white board while reciting the definition. If you want to maybe copy an example sentence on to the whiteboard as well, that's fine, but obviously takes more time. What we're trying to do is treat grammar as these tiny tools that we can use when the situation needs - exactly like a word. If you were in a store and wanted an apple, what would you ask the clerk for? Ringo. It pops in your head. Similarly, if you wanted to tell someone that they should do something, what pops in your head? Beki.
On the first day you do 10. The next day, you begin your grammar study be reviewing the prior day's 10 and writing them on the white board. When I say write, I mean in Japanese the way you see them. Hiragana, kanji, everything. You then learn your new 10. The next day you go over the previous 20, and so on and so forth. You never begin learning your new 10 until you have gone through EVERY grammar point from before. Before you know it, going through every grammar point from prior takes an hour.
For beginners, obviously begin from a JLPT4 level of grammar. Even for non-beginners you might as well start from the bottom (like drizzy) so you're encompassing all grammar points. By day 4 or 5 you will say 'fuck this, I don't want to go over the first 40 grammar points, I've done them before, this is boring'. You have failed the method and can stop studying. Fuck off now, please.
We go over every. single. prior. learned. point every day before we learn another 10.
We're trying to make grammar be as simple as learning vocab. Grammar points as tools are easier to manage than these giant complex ideas. Let me help you visualize it. Here's jgram, a site I actually used in the early 2000s and even contributed example sentences too (through breen). I have no clue whether it's been updated or not or how recent it is, but here's the jlpt2 list they have:
http://www.jgram.org/pages/viewList.php?lv=2
See how each grammar point is short and sweet in list form? Point, formation, meaning, example. You could read every grammar point here in less than an hour. You have now read every major grammar point needed to be at an advanced level of Japanese. In less than an hour. When you picture Japanese like this, it seems way, way easier. If you can get through this list (along with the previous levels' lists, and, if you want, the one after) then you can genuinely understand more than 90% of anything in written Japanese (the remaining 10% is still quite large but is really specific stuff).
Again. Review any previous points learned. Then take a new 10. Read them, learn them, write them on your whiteboard. Do this until you complete the list. The last 10 on your list should be repeated at least 3 days before you feel comfortable with it. Then you're done. Stop.
This is boring. This is just memorization. This is just repetition.
Yes. And you will only do it for 3 months. Three short fucking months and you will know MORE than the required grammar you need to carry a basic convo or watch tv. Three months to completely change your level of understanding. Stop crying.
Reading
Read. Just read. In the beginning, read simple stuff, later on, read intermediate stuff, then read some advanced stuff. I think we've gone over plenty of example reading stuff in this thread that I don't need to dedicate a giant section to it. I won't tell you what to read or how long to. Just read.
Reading is what will SOLIDIFY THE KANJI, VOCAB, AND GRAMMAR YOU STUDIED BY SEEING IT IN A NATURAL CONTEXT.
The ONE big thing I did was this. When I came across a word or kanji I didn't know, I'd look up the meaning/reading and add it to a separate list than my kanji/vocab list. There's a very high chance that the word/kanji is indeed on your kanji list, just maybe not until an advanced level. So again you have a choice. Just learn the word and meaning and wait until you encounter it in your kanji study, or you go through the full blown process of learning the kanji and practicing the word as if it were on your writing list. Regardless of what method you choose, by doing a bit of kanji/vocab study like this in your reading, you will significantly reduce the time it takes to learn new kanji during your kanji study.
Example. You read 必要 in something. You learn how to read it and what it means, and write the kanji a few times, but basically put it out of your mind for now. A few weeks later on during your kanji study 必 is one of your kanji and you spend much less time with it since it's familiar and 必要 is one of the words.
All of these small things add up so that you're not spending as much time on the learning part but way more on the retaining it part. Reading will eventually be something you just do naturally and not have to dedicate a specific time slot for.
Final Note
So I did the above stuff every day for about 3 months. My schedule looked like this:
~9am - kanji/vocab
~10am - grammar
~11am - reading
~noon - other stuff not covered in this post
However, like I mentioned above in each section, eventually each section takes longer and longer. I was spending ~3 hours on kanji alone near the end. The trade off is you will finish grammar much, much earlier than kanji due to there being much less. Once you've finished your grammar list, you're done. Then it's just up to you how you maintain it - the obvious method being reading. Once you finish your kanji list, you're done. You don't keep writing all 2k kanji every day. You're done. You simply maintain it in a different way - reading.
Reading is the only thing you will continue after you're done with kanji/grammar. And you can do that for 10 minutes or 10 hours.
You will never write on a whiteboard ever again after these few months. Never. I promise. I haven't once. Never once.
I'll make a listening post some time later when I have time, but it will NOT be as lengthy as this. The reason I wrote this one so lengthy is because I wanted you to feel like I was pushing you while you read this. I could have written this post in probably 3-4 paragraphs and gotten the same exact method across. But I wanted you to understand the actual thought process behind all of this to see how much discipline it takes to keep at it. If you can't even read this post, you sure as fuck can't get on my study level.
Should we ask a mod to get that writeup in the OP? Thanks expert.
/edit reading that... I realised that's basically the methodologically I've arrived at through trial and error with some minor modifications (STANDING?!?!?!??!??!?!).
well, at least i know i'm vaguely on the right track. And need to do more words p/day.
/edit reading that... I realised that's basically the methodologically I've arrived at through trial and error with some minor modifications (STANDING?!?!?!??!??!?!).
well, at least i know i'm vaguely on the right track. And need to do more words p/day.
flatearthpandas
Member
Thanks for the write up. I've been leaving review to srs programs but brute force has always been somewhat appealing if exhausting. Will start this as soon as I get a white board, probably tomorrow.
Unless I shouldn't be spending so much time during the week studying when i could be immersed instead outside of work. Three months seems like a small penalty for easing everything else though.
Unless I shouldn't be spending so much time during the week studying when i could be immersed instead outside of work. Three months seems like a small penalty for easing everything else though.
you have to stand to use a whiteboard ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
AmethystEnd
Member
So I read all of that and I have just one question.
Can I have your whiteboard?
Can I have your whiteboard?
No, but seriously, thanks. The kanji section in particular is helpful to me.
Porcile
Member
I love that post. It's basically a massive troll post under the guise of really useful set of advice, hence all the jokey stuff about standing up while you do it. I don't doubt for a second that this worked by the way, because you're a complete freak and know it. Hence why he's basically fucking with all of you but in the kindest, most useful way possible. It's genius.
The thing is, you already know that 99.9% of the people who start this will fail in a few weeks or less. If it isn't obvious to anyone by the way, there is nothing revolutionary in that post, not that there are claims to be. It's just the very natural method of learning, probably what you've been doing already, just sped up around 25x through sheer regimented mental AND physical brute force, probably at the sacrifice of almost everything around you. If you weren't doing it before, you wont be doing it now, sorry. Three months though... Three months of having your brain switched on 24/7 dedicated to doing nothing but learning this one single thing in probably the most challenging and exhausting way possible. Could you do it? Then why the aren't you doing it now already?
More positively, learning is all about attitude. If you think you're the 0.01% who could do this in three months, then maybe you are. Learning really is not about being naturally smart, it's about having the attitude of a smart person. However, if you have any amount of laziness inside you, this isn't going to work so you might as well stop now and just do what you've normally been doing if it works for you. I would really look quite hard at yourself and see how you've approached things in the past. Were you the person at university or school that genuinely put in his heart and soul into studying and really achieved something, or were you the person that coasted through. I'd ask myself "Why am I STILL learning Japanese, if I could've done this in three months?" Some of that post is about efficiency but most of it is really about attitude. I doubt anyone told expert how to do this, he just did it because he has that attitude.
The thing is if you were that person that could do this, you wouldn't need this guide because a) all the stuff in there is obvious, and b) you'd be fluent already because you would have started this yesterday, before you needed to be told in a forum post of all things, by essentially a total stranger of all people.
Anyway, I do appreciate the write up, but I know he's posting it because he knows the sheer difficulty of it is beyond most people and is probably quite amusing to his self confessed inner troll character. Let's be clear, I am not dismissing anything about the effectiveness of this, I really think it could work, but fuck, it'd take some massive balls.
The thing is, you already know that 99.9% of the people who start this will fail in a few weeks or less. If it isn't obvious to anyone by the way, there is nothing revolutionary in that post, not that there are claims to be. It's just the very natural method of learning, probably what you've been doing already, just sped up around 25x through sheer regimented mental AND physical brute force, probably at the sacrifice of almost everything around you. If you weren't doing it before, you wont be doing it now, sorry. Three months though... Three months of having your brain switched on 24/7 dedicated to doing nothing but learning this one single thing in probably the most challenging and exhausting way possible. Could you do it? Then why the aren't you doing it now already?
More positively, learning is all about attitude. If you think you're the 0.01% who could do this in three months, then maybe you are. Learning really is not about being naturally smart, it's about having the attitude of a smart person. However, if you have any amount of laziness inside you, this isn't going to work so you might as well stop now and just do what you've normally been doing if it works for you. I would really look quite hard at yourself and see how you've approached things in the past. Were you the person at university or school that genuinely put in his heart and soul into studying and really achieved something, or were you the person that coasted through. I'd ask myself "Why am I STILL learning Japanese, if I could've done this in three months?" Some of that post is about efficiency but most of it is really about attitude. I doubt anyone told expert how to do this, he just did it because he has that attitude.
The thing is if you were that person that could do this, you wouldn't need this guide because a) all the stuff in there is obvious, and b) you'd be fluent already because you would have started this yesterday, before you needed to be told in a forum post of all things, by essentially a total stranger of all people.
Anyway, I do appreciate the write up, but I know he's posting it because he knows the sheer difficulty of it is beyond most people and is probably quite amusing to his self confessed inner troll character. Let's be clear, I am not dismissing anything about the effectiveness of this, I really think it could work, but fuck, it'd take some massive balls.
Porcile
Member
Actually, I wonder if at some point you encountered some of the methods in Adam Robinson's book What Smart Students Know: Maximum Grades. Optimum Learning. Minimum Time. It wouldn't surprise me, since that book is referenced on the AJATT website, and you've previously said you used to frequent the same internet spaces as the guy who started that website.
AmethystEnd
Member
I'm under no delusion about what it would take to learn Japanese via that method. I work 30 hours a week and am still at university. Hell, I'm working right now.
But I am going to do at least the kanji part over this summer. I want to have all the jouyou kanji down and I know I can brute force that.
And it's not even that my eyes were magically opened to some new method of kanji study. It's just never been laid out so clearly how easy it would be to step up my reading game.
Yes, I said easy. Before, kanji was just an on and off thing that I worked on here and there. But 700 kanji a month for 3 months? That's all it takes to have all of jouyou down? Pff, I can do that shit. Hold my beer.
Admittedly, I've been half assing kanji learning up to this point. I've been content with just learning what I was required to learn for class, along with whatever I randomly picked up on my own time as I read things I enjoy. As a result, my kanji reading is way fucking better than my kanji writing, which bothers me. It's (for some reason) embarrassing to me that I can read certain words, but if you ask me to write them I have to use hiragana.
I finish the final Japanese class my university offers in May. At that point I'll attempt the kanji part of expert's regimen. Not using a whiteboard though. I'll buy several notebooks; I want a record that I did this shit and hopefully I'll have a big ass pile of notebooks to show to this big ass superior thread by the end of the summer.
But I am going to do at least the kanji part over this summer. I want to have all the jouyou kanji down and I know I can brute force that.
And it's not even that my eyes were magically opened to some new method of kanji study. It's just never been laid out so clearly how easy it would be to step up my reading game.
Yes, I said easy. Before, kanji was just an on and off thing that I worked on here and there. But 700 kanji a month for 3 months? That's all it takes to have all of jouyou down? Pff, I can do that shit. Hold my beer.
Admittedly, I've been half assing kanji learning up to this point. I've been content with just learning what I was required to learn for class, along with whatever I randomly picked up on my own time as I read things I enjoy. As a result, my kanji reading is way fucking better than my kanji writing, which bothers me. It's (for some reason) embarrassing to me that I can read certain words, but if you ask me to write them I have to use hiragana.
I finish the final Japanese class my university offers in May. At that point I'll attempt the kanji part of expert's regimen. Not using a whiteboard though. I'll buy several notebooks; I want a record that I did this shit and hopefully I'll have a big ass pile of notebooks to show to this big ass superior thread by the end of the summer.
Porcile
Member
Well, you're on GAF reading and replying to my post so you can't be working right now.
Three months is jack shit. It's the intensity of it which will destroy most people. Already your prior attitude to learning kanji is sounding up some warning sirens in my head. What's your reason for half assing it? Laziness? Difficulty? The difficulty of this method is 99% attitude and 1% execution.I have actually seen it put into a practice though. Long story short a bunch of American soldiers defected TO North Korea, and as part of their assimilation into North Korean society they basically did exactly this, except it was learning Korean and memorising the writings of Kim Il-Sung.
But alright, fuck it. I am not the person who I think could do this sort of regime, but I'm moving to Japan in March next year and I have three months. Let's see if I can do it as welI. I'll buy a whiteboard in town tomorrow, and get started on Sunday.
AmethystEnd
Member
I thought I detailed why I've been half assing it pretty well.
and therefore
And it took me 50 minutes to type that first post because I'm working at the same time.
I'm not buying a whiteboard
and therefore
And it took me 50 minutes to type that first post because I'm working at the same time.
I'm not buying a whiteboard
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
Verbs meaning the vocab or the conjugations/grammar? If vocab, they should be naturally in your common words list. If grammar, that stuff should just come up in any basic jstudy you do, either your grammar list or the first textbook you ever get. That stuff is so simple, along with stuff like particles, desu, whatever, that it's below the scope of this.
I dont know about adding it to the op, this method is very specific and not intended for general learning. It'd set a bad example for the thread.
And yes, I came to this method naturally as well. I didn't read a book, I'd never used whiteboard before, I'd never done mass repetition or anything. I had studied in school for about a year and realized it was too slow. I had to self study, and I wanted jlpt1 fast. This is how I just did it. It just came to me.
The standing was because of all the writing you do, it makes sense to not be hunched over and it's also easier to learn the strokes standing. I seriously stood for all of my kanji study every day. You can sit during reading and listening and everything else lol.
That whiteboard is still at my parents' place. I used to take markers/erasers from my school's classrooms lol. I went through hundreds.
The post has some tongue in cheek but it's not a troll. At all. This is what I did to put the gigantic amount of info you need for a foundation in the language. Then I passed some shitty standardized test. With jlpt1 in my hand, I still could not truthfully say that I knew Japanese. It wasn't until I went to live and work there for years where all of this paid off. The ease I had naturally picking stuff up because I had this vast bank of tools in my head for reading, speaking, writing. When everyone relies on you for everything because you are head and shoulders above them, it accelerates everything.
At the time I was doing it, I had no idea it was going to have that effect on me. Remember, the above is just like half my day, I still had hours of study after this. Obviously if anyone dedicates this much time to anything it will pay off, so I agree with your sentiment that if you need to be told the above, you will probably not be ready for it.
But I wrote it up just to have another experience for people to see. Even if they don't use it, they can see it's a viable option for some. To that guy who made the post about being 20 something and probably never being able to learn Japanese, I'd respond with this post. It takes time and mental dedication, but it's possible.
If Japanese had 26 kanji, this wouldn't be an issue.
AmethystEnd
Member
So I added all the kanji at the resource from expert's post:
http://www.jlptstudy.com/N5/N5_kanji.html
http://www.jlptstudy.com/N4/N4_kanji.html
http://www.jlptstudy.com/N3/N3_kanji.html
http://www.jlptstudy.com/N2/N2_kanji.html
and it's only about 1300-1400 kanji. I guess this is just because they don't have N1.
I found these though:
http://www.tanos.co.uk/jlpt/jlpt5/kanji/
http://www.tanos.co.uk/jlpt/jlpt4/kanji/
http://www.tanos.co.uk/jlpt/jlpt3/kanji/
http://www.tanos.co.uk/jlpt/jlpt2/kanji/
http://www.tanos.co.uk/jlpt/jlpt1/kanji/
Only issue is they don't seem to have common word listed so you'd have to get the common words from a different resource.
Edit: I like this better: http://kanjicards.org/kanji-lists.html
Doesn't have N5, but it has N4-N1, has common words, and stroke order all in one location.
http://www.jlptstudy.com/N5/N5_kanji.html
http://www.jlptstudy.com/N4/N4_kanji.html
http://www.jlptstudy.com/N3/N3_kanji.html
http://www.jlptstudy.com/N2/N2_kanji.html
and it's only about 1300-1400 kanji. I guess this is just because they don't have N1.
I found these though:
http://www.tanos.co.uk/jlpt/jlpt5/kanji/
http://www.tanos.co.uk/jlpt/jlpt4/kanji/
http://www.tanos.co.uk/jlpt/jlpt3/kanji/
http://www.tanos.co.uk/jlpt/jlpt2/kanji/
http://www.tanos.co.uk/jlpt/jlpt1/kanji/
Only issue is they don't seem to have common word listed so you'd have to get the common words from a different resource.
Edit: I like this better: http://kanjicards.org/kanji-lists.html
Doesn't have N5, but it has N4-N1, has common words, and stroke order all in one location.
Porcile
Member
I mean it's "trollish" in the way a lot of good self-help writing will purposefully create a kind of internal confusion within the reader. I consider motivational speakers, and those shady pick up artists brilliant real life trolls, because they do exactly this, and it upsets a lot of people because it's like a slap in the face. Sorry, just the way I read it. It isn't an actual troll post I know, far from it. Anyone who is smart and aware of their own faults in regards to learning will be able to take a lot from it, but it needed the "troll" to create that inner dialogue.
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
I'm pretty sure I used kanzen master lists for kanji and grammar, but that jlpt study site is basically the setup it was. Individual kanji, readings, and words. For kanzen, I just wrote the english meanings under everyword.
Kanzen's grammar setup is great because it gives similar grammar expressions (like synonyms) to the point you're learning. A lot of the times the grammar point youre learning is just an archaic/more formal way of using a basic point.
I should say again, my goal was jlpt. But if it's really not your goal, you can stop at jlpt2 grammar. You will not need all of jlpt1 grammar for basic life. Worry about it if you do actually want to live in Japan. Even then, most Japanese can't pass jlpt1 anyway.
For kanji I recommend the full jouyou list, basically up to jlpt1. It's a lot. Yep.
Yep.
Porcile: correct, I pitched it like an infomercial workout plan. Make you think you can look like this model within 3 months. You gonna look the same because you're not going to do everything that model does. Because it's much more than just buying this ab machine.
Kanzen's grammar setup is great because it gives similar grammar expressions (like synonyms) to the point you're learning. A lot of the times the grammar point youre learning is just an archaic/more formal way of using a basic point.
I should say again, my goal was jlpt. But if it's really not your goal, you can stop at jlpt2 grammar. You will not need all of jlpt1 grammar for basic life. Worry about it if you do actually want to live in Japan. Even then, most Japanese can't pass jlpt1 anyway.
For kanji I recommend the full jouyou list, basically up to jlpt1. It's a lot. Yep.
Yep.
Porcile: correct, I pitched it like an infomercial workout plan. Make you think you can look like this model within 3 months. You gonna look the same because you're not going to do everything that model does. Because it's much more than just buying this ab machine.
Ok got it, I separated vocabulary from verbs even though they overlap, when I was thinking about the common words list (ie the common words list being vocab only).
The only thing I'm divided on is a whiteboard or a hundred notebooks. Despite you saying it will help with stroke order, I like the feel of hand writing Japanese so I might go with the books.
Would you still bang me if I use notebooks?
Edit I feel like my handwriting will become shit tier of I use a white board cause ATM it's pretty neat now
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
How is a whiteboard not hand writing? A white board is a giant space you can write a giant kanji in. Tons of space to practice strokes and write tons of kanji/words, then erase and start again. I'm not saying a giant white board, like a medium size personal one. You dont really have to stand lol, I just found it helped. Shrug, do notebooks if you want, I just think it will give your wrist pain even quicker.
And again, full disclaimer, I was 18 or 19 during all of this, plenty of time due to being in college, no relationships, didn't hang out with friends, no major life commitments. Girls, friendships, trips, jobs, blah blah all came after. All I did was put life on hold for a few months. I suggest trying to do the same thing, though I know some here are older with jobs. That will be your hardest challenge. Having the motivation after work. I can't help with that.
And again, full disclaimer, I was 18 or 19 during all of this, plenty of time due to being in college, no relationships, didn't hang out with friends, no major life commitments. Girls, friendships, trips, jobs, blah blah all came after. All I did was put life on hold for a few months. I suggest trying to do the same thing, though I know some here are older with jobs. That will be your hardest challenge. Having the motivation after work. I can't help with that.
Hahaha. I hold a pen with like 4-5 fingers cause I'm weird, so I think a whiteboard will be unnatural that's all. Fuck you. I'll get it tomorrow morning and trial it.
AmethystEnd
Member
Found these:
http://www.tanos.co.uk/jlpt/jlpt2/grammar/usage/
http://www.tanos.co.uk/jlpt/jlpt1/grammar/usage/
Says it straight ripped the grammar lists from Kanzen Master.
I like the format. May have to consider getting the books if I can't, err, find them.
http://www.tanos.co.uk/jlpt/jlpt2/grammar/usage/
http://www.tanos.co.uk/jlpt/jlpt1/grammar/usage/
Says it straight ripped the grammar lists from Kanzen Master.
I like the format. May have to consider getting the books if I can't, err, find them.
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
I'm sorry but you're an adult. Learn how to write properly now, along with all of this. You'll need wrist movement for strokes. And to not look like a fucking child.
Amazon has them, no? Local Japanese bookstores usually do to if you live in a major area with a bookoff/kinokuni/mitsuwa.
you should see how i hold a fork and knife
AmethystEnd
Member
Oh yeah, they're easy to buy. Should I have put quotation marks around "find"?
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
Ohh. I don't know if theyre in digital format or scanned somewhere. I sort of doubt it. But the sites you listed are usually just type ups of those exact textbooks, so you really don't need to buy them. I think I photocopied mine from one of my jteachers and only bought a few random advanced books along the way. Pretty sure the official jlpt site gives free resources too.
AmethystEnd
Member
I found N1 and N2 already, but I'd like to start from the bottom. Yes, I'm already years into this and a lot of it will be repeating shit I already know, but I'm good with that.
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
I recommend it too. Keeping everything together helps. But, you can feel free to accelerate your learning in the beginning. Do the first 100 kanji the first day if you want because you already know them. Also 25 was my bare minimum. Obviously it'd be more some days if I added them due to new words.
If people feel comfortable with more than 25 kanji, go for it. But doing too much is not good for obvious reasons. The point is really testing the memory every day before learning new stuff. It's the reinforcement. If you want to go hardcore and put more on your plate, do it. If you can finish the whole kanji list in a week. Do it. But I just don't think there will be enough reinforcement if you rush it that fast. And of course you burn out. Going to bed, letting your brain rest, and recalling it from there and WRITING it is what helps.
You map muscle memory with brain memory, actually pull the words from your mind, and drill them. There's a lot going on. This is not just flashcards. It's not just looking at word and remembering the meaning. The writing is really the key.
Plenty of days I burned out too. It happens. I know not everyone will do 7 days a week. It's fine. Just realize all of these tiny compromises do have prices.
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