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The Dark Knight SPOILER THREAD

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methodman said:
Uh oh...
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*Welcomes all challengers*

(If we don't want to go down that direction, we won't, but this thread has turned into a talk about the Academy Awards and TDK's potential on winning/nomination, so I think it's certainly valid)
 
Click said:
I hope there's going to be some sweet sale on the Blu-ray Dark Knight. $23+ is a bit too expensive when I know it'll eventually drop to like $15 or something.




I know it's just opinion, but are you kidding me? Quantum of Solace was horrible.
Worst. Bond. Movie. ever.
Such a huge let-down for me, especially because I liked Casino Royale a lot.
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I thought QOS was more enjoyable (while not a better picture) than CR -

everyone has an opinion
 
Buckethead said:
Yeah, me too. But even though I love Batman Begins and also The Dark Knight....

The Batman movies aren't even half the overall quality and complexity as that of the Lord of the Rings films. From top to bottom those movies were impeccable. While I commend TDK for it's achievements and Ledger is nothing short of one of the best villains ever, LOTR was not just a great adaptation and storytelling but an amazing achievement for film.

I mean you can't really compare them in many ways. One's a (fabulous) comic book adaptation and one is a much more complex moral, cultural, and theological epic.

That being said, everything on the LOTR films were turned up to 11. TDK is great for what it is, but as an overall mature piece of film, it can never be and I don't think the Academy will ever let it's "types" into their little crowd.
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s141n9.jpg
 
Buckethead said:
*Welcomes all challengers*

(If we don't want to go down that direction, we won't, but this thread has turned into a talk about the Academy Awards and TDK's potential on winning/nomination, so I think it's certainly valid)
Click to expand...

I kinda agree with you, I loved the LOTR trilogy (but I was already a huge fan of the books). Just can't fucking wait for the Blu Ray already, hurry the fuck up New Line or whoever the fuck is taking so long.
 
SpeedingUptoStop said:
Solo 183
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And at least half of those were pure, gushing praise! Even now Im hardly hating on it. I just find, as with all movies, you notice the flaws a bit more after you've stepped back and had a few months to reflect.

Jesus H though, I saw TDK 6 times in theatres! I hated it THAT MUCH :lol
 
If any LOTR movie deserved the awards, it was Fellowship. Goddamn that was a fantastic movie. It's probably one of my favorite movies of all time. ROTK, while good, didn't deserve 11 Oscars, looking back at it. Fellowship did though.

edit: And I saw The Dark Knight 6 times as well, everyone. I fucking ADORE the movie. But Solo, you know, is grounded. That's why I take in consideration whatever he says.
 
Solo said:
And at least half of those were pure, gushing praise! Even now Im hardly hating on it. I just find, as with all movies, you notice the flaws a bit more after you've stepped back and had a few months to reflect.

Jesus H though, I saw TDK 6 times in theatres! I hated it THAT MUCH :lol
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6 times? I only saw it 3!
 
Haha, nice Mike.

I'm NOT saying that LOTR is better than TDK or anything like that, but I'm arguing that LOTR is more complex and has much more Oscar potential for many reasons.
 
I love the hell out of TDK, but I wouldn't dare go on record putting it at the same level as LOTR. Five decades from now I guarantee you LotR will be held higher by cinephiles everywhere.
 
Buckethead said:
Yeah, me too. But even though I love Batman Begins and also The Dark Knight....

The Batman movies aren't even half the overall quality and complexity as that of the Lord of the Rings films. From top to bottom those movies were impeccable. While I commend TDK for it's achievements and Ledger is nothing short of one of the best villains ever, LOTR was not just a great adaptation and storytelling but an amazing achievement for film.

I mean you can't really compare them in many ways. One's a (fabulous) comic book adaptation and one is a much more complex moral, cultural, and theological epic.

That being said, everything on the LOTR films were turned up to 11. TDK is great for what it is, but as an overall mature piece of film, it can never be and I don't think the Academy will ever let it's "types" into their little crowd.
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Disagree, the LOTR trilogy are good but definitely not classics, just entertaining movies exactly like the Dark Knight. And while Batman Begins lacked complexity, the sequel had plenty of it.

Really disagree with your opninon about the acadamy and i often disagree with their opinion of what "good" movies are. As such, they have let these types of movies in their little crowd before, Burton's Batman which i find an avarage movie at best got in. And that movie did truelly lack any complexity, TDK does not.

At the end of the day i dont think it really matters, this is all just opinion anyway, and we all differ in what we like.
 
DihcarEM said:
Disagree, the LOTR trilogy are good but definitely not classics, just entertaining movies exactly like the Dark Knight. And while Batman Begins lacked complexity, the sequel had plenty of it.
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(And here...we...go!)

I'm not saying that The Dark Knight lacked complexity, it is certainly a fabulously made crime-drama but as the same time it's a very flashy action movie. Essentially at the heart of the movie is "why do we need heroes" and "what is a hero"?

Which is certainly a very smart, interesting, analytical concept to explore however the LOTR films touch on a lot of primal issues: there's the concept of the horribleness of war and warnings of over-industrialization with the sacrifice or the natural world. Also concepts like "there's some things worth fighting for" not to mention spiritual and moral undertones.

I don't think it's really debatable... LOTR packs more substance per square inch than TDK.
That's nothing to take away from TDK, but one could argue that TDK is just one (very fantastically made) popcorn movie.

DihcarEM said:
Disagree, the LOTR trilogy are good but definitely not classics.
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How not? The production design, special effects, visual effects, acting, orchestration, writing, and directing were all incredible?

Easily the most ambitious film(s) since Star Wars.

I'm not diminishing TDK's accomplishments in these areas but they didn't push the boundaries nearly as much as LOTR did. I mean fully-CG character used properly to serve the needs of the story...have we seen one of those before in a non-animated movie? I think not.

Not to mention the storytelling was amazing. And I don't care if it had 30 endings, it wrapped up each plot thread. So it's easy to see why TDK is more popular, it's shorter, flashier, and a bit dumber, but whatever they're both great films.

But comparing the two as general merits of film, it's no contest. I think both films are incredible, don't get me wrong. I have and will continue to defend both BB and TDK to my peers, but when your going up against probably the best, most cohesive and mature piece of modern cinema... TDK looks like peanuts.
 
Buckethead said:
(And here...we...go!)

I'm not saying that The Dark Knight lacked complexity, it is certainly a fabulously made crime-drama but as the same time it's a very flashy action movie. Essentially at the heart of the movie is "why do we need heroes" and "what is a hero"?

Which is certainly a very smart, interesting, analytical concept to explore however the LOTR films touch on a lot of primal issues: there's the concept of the horribleness of war and warnings of over-industrialization with the sacrifice or the natural world. Also concepts like "there's some things worth fighting for" not to mention spiritual and moral undertones.

I don't think it's really debatable... LOTR packs more substance per square inch than TDK.
That's nothing to take away from TDK, but one could argue that TDK is just one (very fantastically made) popcorn movie.
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No, there is no here we go. Most of the things you stated can also be found in TDK. And not mention LOTR series doesn't do anything new, those themes have been explored many times. And you can pack as much substance you want in a movie, it's still only a fantasy movie. Very clear black and white(TDK atleast had grey explored), good vs evil, and in the end the good guys win.

Again i disagree, i think both LOTR and TDK are four (very fantastically made) popcorn movies.


Buckethead said:
How not? The production design, special effects, visual effects, acting, orchestration, writing, and directing were all incredible?

Easily the most ambitious film(s) since Star Wars.

I'm not diminishing TDK's accomplishments in these areas but they didn't push the boundaries nearly as much as LOTR did. I mean fully-CG character used properly to serve the needs of the story...have we seen one of those before in a non-animated movie? I think not.

Not to mention the storytelling was amazing. And I don't care if it had 30 endings, it wrapped up each plot thread. So it's easy to see why TDK is more popular, it's shorter, flashier, and a bit dumber, but whatever they're both great films.

But comparing the two as general merits of film, it's no contest. I think both films are incredible, don't get me wrong. I have and will continue to defend both BB and TDK to my peers, but when your going up against probably the best, most cohesive and mature piece of modern cinema... TDK looks like peanuts.
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If those are the things needed for a movie to be a classic, then yes they would be classics, but TDK also has all those things.

Star Wars? Again, the definitation of a classic is subjective, sure a mass of people can think something, that doesn't mean that they are right. I think Star Wars is just as equally a good movie, but it does lack complexity.
I admit i don't really know what would be a "classic", is it a movie that can stand the test of time? That when i watch it in 30y i would still love it? It would still only be a classic because of my personal flavor. Other people that thought it was a classic, might find it crap in 30y time, who's to say who's right.

I would say as a superhero-movie they pushed the boundries plenty. Trying to show a realistic view on how,what it would mean to be a superhero. And the ending is very different from other SHmovies, the good guy doesn't always win, people won't always love you as a symbol,hero,whatever.

I do think that if a third movie gets made, for better or worse it will affect how we view the second one.
 
SpeedingUptoStop said:
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He beat out the official Batman spokeperson, DMc!
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All hate-filled posts, HATE-FILLED I SAY!

Nah I'm just kidding. :I may have exaggerated there solo, but you really are pretty negative about TDK being nominated for anything. :P

Buckethead said:
Yeah, me too. But even though I love Batman Begins and also The Dark Knight....

The Batman movies aren't even half the overall quality and complexity as that of the Lord of the Rings films. From top to bottom those movies were impeccable. While I commend TDK for it's achievements and Ledger is nothing short of one of the best villains ever, LOTR was not just a great adaptation and storytelling but an amazing achievement for film.

I mean you can't really compare them in many ways. One's a (fabulous) comic book adaptation and one is a much more complex moral, cultural, and theological epic.

That being said, everything on the LOTR films were turned up to 11. TDK is great for what it is, but as an overall mature piece of film, it can never be and I don't think the Academy will ever let it's "types" into their little crowd.
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lulwut. You know Buckethead, you may be just as insane as the guy in your avatar. Personally, I love FOTR. The other two I couldn't care less.
 
jett said:
lulwut. RotK and TTT are painfully medicore at best. Now, FotR, that's an excellent film.
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What? Two Towers is largely considered the best one. "The down note".

DihcarEM said:
Very clear black and white(TDK atleast had grey explored), good vs evil, and in the end the good guys win..
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What are you talking about? Batman was good while the Joker was complete evil.

It's not like Batman was ever tempted to join the Joker, Harvey was at the end but he pretty much gave in without remorse. So yes it was about Batman either giving in or not. LOTR was about the person giving in or the world would be fucked while his friends fought battles to save the people he loved. Very intense drama. I could have cared less if the assholes on the boats died or not.

The scale for LOTR was a "war". In TDK it was a small "battle". This is my point.

Lord of the Rings was all about each character being tempted to give in and take the ring for themselves. Frodo goes through mental anguish, physical anguish, and has to deal with outside environmental factors. Batman didn't. He pouted for awhile after the Harvey/Rachel scene but that was it. No primal stuff there. All guttoral and primal stuff was all Mr. J.

Batman had to deal with killing a guy or not. Simple in comparison.
 
Buckethead said:
What? Two Towers is largely considered the best one. "The down note".
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The Two Towers movie? There was nothing in the Two Towers movie...

RotK was really good, though. FotR was as well.

(I like the Dark Knight more than all of them. But I'm not a movie guy, so take it FWIW)
 
CajoleJuice said:
Is this the same world where Die Hard 2 is largely considered to be the best Die Hard?
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No. If I had it my way there wouldn't have been more than just the first one.

I'm more going after the whole 2nd one/"Empire Strikes Back" thing, seeing how they're both these big epic type movies, Ben Linus.
 
Buckethead said:
What are you talking about? Batman was good while the Joker was complete evil.

It's not like Batman was ever tempted to join the Joker, Harvey was at the end but he pretty much gave in without remorse. So yes it was about Batman either giving in or not. LOTR was about the person giving in or the world would be fucked while his friends fought battles to save the people he loved. Very intense drama. I could have cared less if the assholes on the boats died or not.

The scale for LOTR was a "war". In TDK it was a small "battle". This is my point.

Lord of the Rings was all about each character being tempted to give in and take the ring for themselves. Frodo goes through mental anguish, physical anguish, and has to deal with outside environmental factors. Batman didn't. He pouted for awhile after the Harvey/Rachel scene but that was it. No primal stuff there. All guttoral and primal stuff was all Mr. J..
Click to expand...

The audience knew that, but for the most people in the movie, Batman was a questionmark to them, a villian or a good guy? And we saw how quickly they turned on him. Batman goes trough the same anguish if not more then Frodo. Frodo had friends and warriors behind, although it does become a more personal story with just Sam and Frodo. Batman had almost nobody, and had to seriously consider his future, could he keep this up/give up. His relationship with Harvey represented that, a way out, not keep fighting his whole life against unjustice( that would always excist), that would only end with his death. His relationship with Joker also is very complex, the perfect foil to Batman, he can't understand him, doesn't know how to stop him.

TDK also was a war, a war for Gotham city,hope,redemption,ect.
And LOTR might have been about war, that doesn't change that it was total fiction, it didn't even come close to showing us real war and all it brings with it. And you wont find that in any popcorn movie like TDK or LOTR.

Buckethead said:
Batman had to deal with killing a guy or not. Simple in comparison.
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Frodo had to deal with destroying the ring or not. Simple in comparison.:D (I can also simplify a movie in one sentence.)
 
You should all know that I consider The Dark Knight to be better than any LOTR movie. Except maybe the first.

Phew. Glad I got that off my chest.
 
Elfforkusu said:
The Two Towers movie? There was nothing in the Two Towers movie...

RotK was really good, though. FotR was as well.

(I like the Dark Knight more than all of them. But I'm not a movie guy, so take it FWIW)
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RotK was good until they decided to show seven different endings. I appreciate LotR trilogy, but I have trouble finding the will to sit through the whole thing again and again. I don't find that trouble with TDK or say the Star Wars trilogy.
 
DihcarEM said:
Frodo had to deal with destroying the ring or not. Simple in comparison.:D (I can also simplify a movie in one sentence.)
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Frodo could've also just hopped on one of those flying birds and saved us all 10 fucking hours.
 
AirBrian said:
Frodo could've also just hopped on one of those flying birds and saved us all 10 fucking hours.
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Yeah, how did those birds get in there? Maybe it was because the ring got destroyed so Sauron couldn't see them and kill them with his evil glance or something. I don't know, I like Star Wars, not LotR.
 
Skiptastic said:
Yeah, how did those birds get in there? Maybe it was because the ring got destroyed so Sauron couldn't see them and kill them with his evil glance or something. I don't know, I like Star Wars, not LotR.
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If they were real eagles, they would've persevered through the tyranny and terrorism of Sauron and brought freedom to the entire LOTR universe!
 
SpeedingUptoStop said:
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He beat out the official Batman spokeperson, DMc!
Click to expand...

How the hell did I fall so hard on this list?
Was one of the top posters in the original Hype thread. :(
 
Here's my argument, take it or leave it.

I think overall LOTR's narrative is more complex. Not only does it have a traditional thread of good vs. evil embodied in a war between the natural world and synthetic industrialism (commentary on generic engineering and the horridness of war), the concept of a hero in Frodo and villain in the ring (themes of sacrifice; Christian themes), social class/race issues (embodied in a relationship between Legolas and Gimli), but also stuff on filial piety, true love etc.

I just think that LOTR is more rich than TDK. I'm not saying TDK's is bad, just less complex. I mean Tolkien created entire languages and history behind his character's. There's major originality points right there.

But regardless of narrative merit (both are strong), I think the effort involved in producing what was on screen in the LOTR films was much more extreme than TDKs. I mean TDK looks fabulous but it's basically Chicago with a new fresh coat of paint and beautiful cinematography bringing the gritty desperation of Gotham to life. In contrast, Middle Earth had to be constructed through a balls-load of production art, matte paintings, CG elements, and a ton of different miniature and big-iature models. Not to mention Gollum as a character was very believable and great use of the technology. The costuming is much more difficult to do in LOTR too, I mean TDK didn't have to really, it basically contemporized old characters which it did a great job, but the span and scope of LOTR is staggering. It seemed to push film making in every area...

Thus "Best Picture" is not only judged off of storytelling but also direction and the other factors in bringing Middle Earth to life. So while I think both are incredible films in their own right and TDK definitely deserves a nomination, but I think that on technical, creative, and storytelling fronts LOTR is more impressive and thus more deserved of a Best Picture win.
 
jett said:
All hate-filled posts, HATE-FILLED I SAY!

Nah I'm just kidding. :I may have exaggerated there solo, but you really are pretty negative about TDK being nominated for anything. :P
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All is forgiven. As for TDK and awards, I just like to keep myself grounded. I'll GLADLY eat crow if TDK becomes the awards darling. As Blader pointed out, Ive been wrong about TDK in pretty much EVERY respect so far (predicted it would be disappointing pre-release, predicted a box office intake less than half it ended up earning, etc.; I was proven terribly wrong on both accounts), so me seeing it wont win anything is pretty much guaranteeing its success :lol

Oh, and for the hell of it, since someone brought LOTR into this:

FOTR > TDK >>>>> ROTK > TTT

FOTR is like, the most perfect adventure/fantasy film Im likely to ever see, and its a film that will be talked about for years to come. Probably the genre's masterpiece. I could take or leave the other two, though. I cant blame Jackson too much, as he was just following Tolkien, but I loved FOTR because it had that sense of adventure, whereas TTT and ROTK were more sombre, war-driven movies.
 
Got to work today to find a box of copies of The Dark Knight sitting under our front counter (I work at a drug store). So damn tempting. But I'll be getting the Blu-Ray, not the DVD:D
 
Not me. Ive seen BB enough times for now. Ill save that duo for watching the day or so before the inevitable BB3. Besides, aside from sharing characters and whatnot, they're two vastly different films.
 
joshuagor44 said:
I did that after I "acquired" the TDK DVD.
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I've never seen it BB>TDK.
I saw The Dark Knight before Begins during my Batmarathon due to getting an advance screening ticket. :lol

And since then well haven't seen Begins again.
 
Penguin said:
I've never seen it BB>TDK.
I saw The Dark Knight before Begins during my Batmarathon due to getting an advance screening ticket. :lol

And since then well haven't seen Begins again.
Click to expand...

Batathon
 
Penguin said:
Does anyone else plan to watch Begins and TDK back to back on Blu-Ray first day or just me?
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It shall be glorious.

although I don't think my friend has BB blu-ray, so we'll have to chip that in too.
 
Paul van dyk remix of dark knight single

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-z_.../showthread.php?threadid=502752&forumid=11&s=

holy shit , CD 2 special edition ROX!!!!!!

Ordered from amazon

dIsc: 2
1. Bank Robbery (Prologue)
2. Buyer Beware
3. Halfway To Hong Kong
4. Decent Men In An Indecent Time
5. You're Gonna Love Me
6. Chance
7. You Complete Me
8. The Ferries
9. We Are Tonight's Entertainment
10. A Watchful Guardian
11. Why So Serious?(The Crystal Method Remix)
12. Poor Choice Of Words(Paul van Dyk Remix)
13. Gunpowder And Gasoline(Remix by Mel Wesson)
14. Rory's First Kiss(Remix by Ryeland Allison)

sORRY if old
 
Solo said:
FOTR is like, the most perfect adventure/fantasy film Im likely to ever see, and its a film that will be talked about for years to come. Probably the genre's masterpiece. I could take or leave the other two, though. I cant blame Jackson too much, as he was just following Tolkien, but I loved FOTR because it had that sense of adventure, whereas TTT and ROTK were more sombre, war-driven movies.
Click to expand...
Not to dwell on this too much, but the FotR movie was better than the book. For the others, the opposite was true (especially for TTT. No comparison at all.)

That said, I don't think it's "wrong" or anything to claim the Dark Knight isn't as good. I'd disagree, but at the same time it doesn't have the uplifting moments that something like FotR has, and you could argue it suffers from the bleakness a little bit. But IMO whatever it loses it more than makes up for with pacing and cohesiveness.
 
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