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The Dark Knight SPOILER THREAD

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Solo said:
As talented as Chris Nolan is in every other regard, he is still a novice when it comes to shooting action. Hes no Spielberg or Cameron in that regard.
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I still thought he improved A LOT over Begins, especially with the truck sequence. He stopped the shaky cam fighting, but I wish he would get a better fight choreographer next time. You finally have a batsuit that can actually move like a normal human, get some dudes to take advantage!...just don't go overboard and turn it into dancing.
 
DMczaf said:
I still thought he improved A LOT over Begins, especially with the truck sequence. He stopped the shaky cam fighting, but I wish he would get a better fight choreographer next time. You finally have a batsuit that can actually move like a regular human, get some dudes to take advantage!...just don't go overboard and turn it into dancing.
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He did improve, and Im sure he will again with Inception and BB3. Im just saying that right now, while hes one of the top overall directors, hes middle of the pack in crafting and shooting action.

The fight chereography is :lol in these movies. Bale looks like a robot throwing elbows.
 
Solo said:
I wasnt alive in 1975 either, but it still doesnt stop Jaws from being a) a summer movie and b) so awesome.
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All I'm saying is I don't look at movies before I was alive as being "summer" movies or "Oscar season" movies. They're just movies that I got around to seeing. Not to hate on your definition.
Though I still like TDK more than Jaws, which only made me sacred of all forms of water...thanks a lot, Spielberg.

Liking Spiderman 2 more than The Dark Knight...to each his own.
 
He needs to ditch KFM, its all great for real life but it looks so ho-hum on camera. I don't want to see any Bourne/Bond fights because he's f'ing Batman. He should take down 99% of his foes within 10 secs....unless you're a dog, then Batman is f'd :(

Damn dogs.
 
Skiptastic said:
Liking Spiderman 2 more than The Dark Knight...to each his own.
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There is a LOT of revisionism that goes on with respect to S-M2. People seem to forget that the world at large rubbed one out to it in the summer of 2004, critics, hardcore fans, and the masses alike.

5 years later, it gets a lot of ridiculous backlash. It was just as well reviewed as TDK, and still appeals to me in totally different ways than TDK. Both are great at achieving what they set out to.
 
VistraNorrez said:
Oldman deserves a lot of credit. His work is the most subtle in the film, and considering how big the film is with everyone else going a little over the top, he did incredible. He could star in a Jim Gordon film and I'd be their day one.
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Definitely. His performance in the last 30 minutes of so of the film (from when he yells "I have to save Dent" onward) was pretty amazing and him pleading for his son's life is HEAVY.
 
Solo said:
There is a LOT of revisionism that goes on with respect to S-M2. People seem to forget that the world at large rubbed one out to it in the summer of 2004, critics, hardcore fans, and the masses alike.

5 years later, it gets a lot of ridiculous backlash. It was just as well reviewed as TDK, and still appeals to me in totally different ways than TDK. Both are great at achieving what they set out to.
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I was just saying I disagreed. Hence, "to each his own" and not "good god, you're a dummy". :P

I really liked Spiderman 2 when I saw it.
 
Solo said:
My biggest problems with Maggie in TDK are:
- while she in generally is a much better actress than Holmes, she really didnt perform any better in TDK than Holmes did in BB
- hate to be shallow, but at least with Katie Holmes, you could believe that two men would be fighting for her affection
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I gotta agree here too, man. :lol

DMczaf said:
I still thought he improved A LOT over Begins, especially with the truck sequence. He stopped the shaky cam fighting, but I wish he would get a better fight choreographer next time. You finally have a batsuit that can actually move like a regular human, get some dudes to take advantage!...just don't go overboard and turn it into dancing.
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Yep, the action in TDK definitely improved over BB. The one thing I didn't like as much in BB was how some of the fight scenes were too zoomed in and it was kind of hard to make out some of the action on screen.

Not that the action was terrible in BB, but things got a lot better in TDK all around. The truck sequence was one of my favorite scenes in the movie. The moment when the Batpod was "born" was pretty awesome.

Maybe a new fight choreographer would do wonders for the fight scenes. The fight scenes should imo still be reality based, but maybe a little more flashy. You think about the criminals Batman's taking on, none of them are really martial artists. Maybe fight scenes a little more similar to Steven Seagal fight scenes would be cool?

Steven Seagal's fight scenes aren't really over the top, but he's bad ass in how he disarms people and uses their own momentum against them. Just a thought...
 
fps fanatic said:
Yep, the action in TDK definitely improved over BB. The one thing I didn't like as much in BB was how some of the fight scenes were too zoomed in and it was kind of hard to make out some of the action on screen.

Not that the action was terrible in BB, but things got a lot better in TDK all around. The truck sequence was one of my favorite scenes in the movie. The moment when the Batpod was "born" was pretty awesome.

Maybe a new fight choreographer would do wonders for the fight scenes. The fight scenes should imo still be reality based, but maybe a little more flashy. You think about the criminals Batman's taking on, none of them are really martial artists. Maybe fight scenes a little more similar to Steven Seagal fight scenes would be cool?

Steven Seagal's fight scenes aren't really over the top, but he's bad ass in how he disarms people and uses their own momentum against them. Just a thought...
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Aside from the fight in the garage, the majority of the fight scenes were just way too slow, and that made them unbelievable. Not that fights aren't slow, but it just felt like "batman sets up hit, bad guy waits to be hit, batman hits guy, then batman sets up next hit".

I THINK it's the fight in the garage where they look like they cut some frames to make a hit or two look faster. I thought it helped, but all the others were just dull.
 
Mr. Snrub said:
Definitely. His performance in the last 30 minutes of so of the film (from when he yells "I have to save Dent" onward) was pretty amazing and him pleading for his son's life is HEAVY.
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he also took what could have been a potentially cheesy line and made it really charming and genuine:

"did batman save you daddy?"
"actually. . . this time i saved him."

the man is awesome

gary+oldman+dark+knight.jpg
 
Ninja99 said:
This is a fairly accurate summary of my view. With time, Ledger's performance has grown more mesmerizing and subtle, while Bale's plunges in the opposite direction, increasingly grating and broad.
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Agreed.

I'm also really starting to enjoy Dent...he got overshadowed by Ledger but he is really great in this .

"It's not about what I want, it's about whats FAIR!"
 
By the way, while its true that Gordon on paper is pretty bad, how about Alfred? Have you not noticed that he seems to have a sweeping monologue ready to go at any time on any subject? What Michael Caine has done in making an even flatter character on paper than Gordon into a memorable part is even more impressive than Oldman's work in my eyes.
 
Solo said:
By the way, while its true that Gordon on paper is pretty bad, how about Alfred? Have you not noticed that he seems to have a sweeping monologue ready to go at any time on any subject? What Michael Caine has done in making an even flatter character on paper than Gordon into a memorable part is even more impressive than Oldman's work in my eyes.
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Alfred wishes he was half the butler that Osborn's butler was

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEs00TxlWL4
 
they're all pretty badass, imo. in a movie where bale's is perhaps the weakest performance, you know you're watching a kickass flick. that's not to say he's bad--he's very solid--he just gets overshadowed by a lot of people doing far more nuanced things. he did exactly what the film needed: to be convincing as bruce and batman, and let ledger run roughshod.
 
Solo said:
By the way, while its true that Gordon on paper is pretty bad, how about Alfred? Have you not noticed that he seems to have a sweeping monologue ready to go at any time on any subject? What Michael Caine has done in making an even flatter character on paper than Gordon into a memorable part is even more impressive than Oldman's work in my eyes.
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I remember one of the Nolan brothers' describing Alfred as a character with a deeply mysterious background that's never really been mined before. It's like no one bothered to ask Alfred about his life until they got down to writing TDK:lol
 
Solo said:
The goofy sonar stuff kind of brings it down a few notches. Sonar:TDK what Vaporizer:BB.
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In the sense that they're both over the top science fictiony devices, yes. But the sonar had thematic basis. Batman throughout the movie is fighting the sort of new breed of criminal that the Joker represents. In order to do it effectively he needed to bend the limits of the law even more than he already was, and violate the privacy of the Gotham citizens with the sonar. It's a neat parallel to Alfred's story about the jewel thief where he needed to resort to extreme measures to save the day, so to speak.

Unless you're talking about the CGI sequences where we see through the sonar vision, then yes I'd agree that wasn't so great. At that point it served the role of fancy gadget I guess.
 
Cycloptis said:
In the sense that they're both over the top science fictiony devices, yes. But the sonar had thematic basis. Batman throughout the movie is fighting the sort of new breed of criminal that the Joker represents. In order to do it effectively he needed to bend the limits of the law even more than he already was, and violate the privacy of the Gotham citizens to do it with the sonar. It's a neat parallel to Alfred's story about the jewel thief where he needed to resort to extreme measures to save the day, so to speak.

Unless you're talking about the CGI sequences where we see through the sonar vision, then yes I'd agree that wasn't so great. At that point it served the role of fancy gadget I guess.
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Im talking about both, really. I thought the CG was kind of janky, and the idea itself a bit over the top for a relatively grounded movie. Whatever though, I just went with the flow in theatres. These sort of nitpicks have arisen after having a year to reflect and digest.
 
The Sonar has a lot more positives going for it (like Cycloptis pointed + the nod to the animated cartoon+ me being on the side of the "this is so crazy/cool" camp+ what an effective tool it is) than negatives for me to really go against it.
 
The sonar is obviously not really possible, but it worked within the film's continuity. If one cell phone can map a whole building, it would stand to reason that several thousand spread out across the city could do the trick on a much larger scale.
 
kbear said:
Seeing TDK on opening weekend was an experience. It wasn't just another night at the movies...it was a once in a lifetime thing you'll remember forever like seeing the birth of your first child, the day Diablo III comes out, losing your virginity, etc. I'm dead serious. I honestly don't think this film will be topped for years and years to come. Unfortunately, Ledger's death has something to do with that...it gave it a timeless feeling, something that will never be replicated.
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Absolutely agreed on all points there. What struck me was how quiet the audience was throughout the whole movie (Aside from the elation that came in response to a really good moment). Everyone was quiet, everyone kept their cell phones in their pockets, and the whispering was at an absolute minimum. Everyone that was there wanted to watch every second of what was before them.
 
Solo said:
There is a LOT of revisionism that goes on with respect to S-M2. People seem to forget that the world at large rubbed one out to it in the summer of 2004, critics, hardcore fans, and the masses alike.

5 years later, it gets a lot of ridiculous backlash. It was just as well reviewed as TDK, and still appeals to me in totally different ways than TDK. Both are great at achieving what they set out to.
Click to expand...
Somebody here MUST have the Back to the Future gif that talks about how SM3 was so bad it retroactively made the first two suck. :lol
 
I think we can all agree that Gordon's wife was the best actor in the entire movie

SpeedingUptoStop said:
The Sonar has a lot more positives going for it (like Cycloptis pointed + the nod to the animated cartoon+ me being on the side of the "this is so crazy/cool" camp+ what an effective tool it is) than negatives for me to really go against it.
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the sonar was great because it pounded in the idea that Batman was all about the prep time
 
Monroeski said:
Somebody here MUST have the Back to the Future gif that talks about how SM3 was so bad it retroactively made the first two suck. :lol
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Im sure someone does, even it its totally false.
 
fps fanatic said:
In general, I hate recasts in movies. I understand if something major happens, like an actor passes away. But in my opinion, it helps me buy into the world of a movie franchise when you see the same actors in a series of films.
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Well don't watch the other Batmens then. They switcheroonied almost every time.

bat-radar
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C'mon the first radar thing was a huge leap of faith for the audience. The massive bat-radar was just retarded. Ok to find the joker fine. They have no way of finding him.

But to be fighting with the radar like he's a bat WTF. He's got a supercomputer up his ass that's relaying all the cellphones in Gotham in real time and converting those cellphone radars into his real-time field of vision fast enough that he can use the data to fight.

Cmon. He might as well have had Batman Terminator cyborgs and the Batmobile transform into Optimus Prime if he has that much technology and money to blow.
 
acidviper said:
Cmon. He might as well have had Batman Terminator cyborgs and the Batmobile transform into Optimus Prime if he has that much technology and money to blow.
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He's Bruce Wayne, goddamit!
 
acidviper said:
Cmon. He might as well have had Batman Terminator cyborgs and the Batmobile transform into Optimus Prime if he has that much technology and money to blow.
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What's next, a rocket ship?
 
acidviper said:
Well don't watch the other Batmens then. They switcheroonied almost every time.


C'mon the first radar thing was a huge leap of faith for the audience. The massive bat-radar was just retarded. Ok to find the joker fine. They have no way of finding him.

But to be fighting with the radar like he's a bat WTF. He's got a supercomputer up his ass that's relaying all the cellphones in Gotham in real time and converting those cellphone radars into his real-time field of vision fast enough that he can use the data to fight.

Cmon. He might as well have had Batman Terminator cyborgs and the Batmobile transform into Optimus Prime if he has that much technology and money to blow.
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Somewhere along the way some people have forgotten this is a fucking superhero movie.
 
Talladega Knight said:
Somewhere along the way some people have forgotten this is a fucking superhero movie.
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A superhero movie that has gone to great lengths to try and legitimize itself as a dramatic, grounded piece of cinema. So when supercomputers and sonar pop up, they stand out all the more. Had this stuff been in, say, the X-men movies, then it would have worked better within their internal logic than it does in Nolan's movie.
 
Solo said:
A superhero movie that has gone to great lengths to try and legitimize itself as a dramatic, grounded piece of cinema. So when supercomputers and sonar pop up, they stand out all the more. Had this stuff been in, say, the X-men movies, then it would have worked better within their internal logic than it does in Nolan's movie.
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Stand out more than a guy in a bat costume going around fighting crime and battling a guy in white makeup with green hair AND a guy with half his face scarred off? It's a superhero movie first and foremost dude.
 
Solo said:
A superhero movie that has gone to great lengths to try and legitimize itself as a dramatic, grounded piece of cinema. So when supercomputers and sonar pop up, they stand out all the more. Had this stuff been in, say, the X-men movies, then it would have worked better within their internal logic than it does in Nolan's movie.
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Works about as well as a Bond gadget, IMO.
 
Mr. Snrub said:
Definitely. His performance in the last 30 minutes of so of the film (from when he yells "I have to save Dent" onward) was pretty amazing and him pleading for his son's life is HEAVY.
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One of my favorite scenes in the movie. The desperation in his voice gives me the chills.
 
Scullibundo said:
I never understood why Batman never just snuck up on Dent. He lost all his ninja-like qualities from Begins.
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By the time he got there, he already had a gun to the kid's head. Plus, he thought he could talk him out of it.
 
AniHawk said:
By the time he got there, he already had a gun to the kid's head. Plus, he thought he could talk him out of it.
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Doesn't matter. He's a ninja. How is it any worse than him diving at Dent while he flips the coin and is aware of Batman?


Not that I want to get into semantics :lol

I just missed League of Shadows Bruce throughout the film.
 
Scullibundo said:
I just missed League of Shadows Bruce throughout the film.
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Me too. BB emphasized a lot of Batman's techniques and methods, at least giving the audience an idea how one man can fight against multiple foes at once. In TDK, I guess with the tone of the movie and the way the fighting sequences were shot, he appeared to me less shadowy and just beat the shit out of everybody.

Also, I wish in TDK (as if the movie is not long enough already) kind of bridges Bruce Wayne from BB to Bruce Wayne in TDK. What I mean is I get the impression that the way Bale portrayed him was more of the "mature" Bruce in TDK...and I am interested to know what the process of maturing he had gone through in what made him, I suppose, the zen warrior that he strove to become in BB. (and maybe that's why Bale did a much more low key Bruce, not the playboy Bruce, throughout the movie)
 
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