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[Boss Doggie]

so the new ps3 slim in your case is...?
its not a child(next gen) just a parent with heavy plastic surgery?

Not sure if intentionally dense, but I'll humor you - it's that supermodel who likes to visit those expensive plastic surgery, yes.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

At this point, we're fairly sure that the WiiU has a significantly more powerful GPU and far more RAM than either of the other current gen consoles. From rumour, it's processor isn't all up to snuff, but we'll see how much that starts to hamper in a couple of years from now.

I firmly believe that the second wave of WiiU titles will be significantly better looking than anything on the console market right now.

Dreamcast launch window titles blew away anything from the previous generation.

 

[CorrisD]

I was talking about the current generations, plural. I think it's only going to get further and further out of sync, and harder and harder for describe generations without using hindsight. Okay, it's a pretty good bet right now that Sony and Microsoft have new consoles they're announcing imminently, but what if they didn't? Or what if they were releasing in 2 or 3 years time, midway through the Wii U's probable lifespan? Would you still be so quick to describe the Wii U as next-gen?

The Dreamcast came out November 1998, the Xbox came out November 2002, 3 years apart, same generation.

 

[abstract alien]

Man this thread is weird

Yeah, I think I'm gonna duck out lol

 

[Famassu]

Problem is RE4 PS2 RE4 GC were not that different. In these days it would be called multiplatform release where fifa2010 on ps2 is just different version of game.



Why do you use hardware to name which generation console is ? I thought people said that it is only timeframe what matter ?

/s

This is why you don't use timeframe to cathegorize what is next gen and what is not next gen. It's overall package of time hardware and most important aspect games.

We haven't been using the argument that hardware doesn't matter in defining generations, we've been arguing that hardware POWER doesn't matter. The hardware does need to be and has always been different between generations (and is even in Wii U's case), but we just don't think there needs to be some arbitrary improvement in a console's GHz number for it to be considered next-gen. It does have to be a clearly new console, but its relative power doesn't really matter. Wii U is not just Wii made smaller, it's a completely new hardware from the grounds up.

 

[Canis lupus]

This is just my personal opinion, and its mainly about graphics. But Ive developped the conception that next gen starts Holiday 2013(or whenever they launch em) when PS4 and Nextbox arrives. From what Ive seen and heard of the WiiU, it doesn't offer much more graphics wise than PS360.

 

[Bony Manifesto]

The Dreamcast came out November 1998, the Xbox came out November 2002, 3 years apart, same generation.

So then presumably, in my hypothetical scenario, when the Wii U's successor launches 2-3 years later, that will also be part of the same generation?

 

[sTeLioSco]

We haven't been using the argument that hardware doesn't matter in defining generations, we've been arguing that hardware POWER doesn't matter. The hardware does need to be and has always been different between generations (and is even in Wii U's case), but we just don't think there needs to be some arbitrary improvement in a console's GHz number for it to be considered next-gen. It does have to be a clearly new console, but its relative power doesn't really matter. Wii U is not just Wii made smaller, it's a completely new hardware from the grounds up.

its the first HD console from nintendo.

yes i agree its completely new,for them......

others sold hd consoles before.with the same generation games that will appear now on the wiiu.

but they just had standard controllers in the box and sold accessories that do what the wiiu does(smartglass/some vita software)

Nintendo just does the opposite(sells controller with screen,as accessory the standard controller) but still in the current technological level.

 

[antitrop]

This is the most minutia oriented semantics thread I've ever seen, it's so weird.

 

[plufim]

so the new ps3 slim in your case is...?
its not a child(next gen) just a parent with heavy plastic surgery?

As insane as this line of questioning is: it's the PS3's brother or sister. Same generation.

 

[sTeLioSco]

As insane as this line of questioning is: it's the PS3's brother or sister. Same generation.

 

[batbeg]

Why do you use hardware to name which generation console is ? I thought people said that it is only timeframe what matter ?

/s

This is why you don't use timeframe to cathegorize what is next gen and what is not next gen. It's overall package of time hardware and most important aspect games.

Games available on the Wii U are not available on the 7th generation consoles though, either in the same capacity or at all. So your most important categorization of generation suggests Wii U is next-gen.

And frankly it has everything to do with timeframe. Consoles competing for marketshare do not have to have the exact same feature set as their competitors to capture some of that market. To say the Wii U is 7th gen suggests it competes with PS3 and 360, and Wii being 6th gen suggests it competes with PS2/GCN/DC/XBox. But in real world terms, in how the videogame market works, this isn't how it works.


Acting like the Wii U is a gen behind just shows an anti-Nintendo bias. I'm fine with people not liking Nintendo and finding them inferior for whatever reasons - after all, this'll be the third generation I've had to see it happen. But to distort reality and language for this agenda is completely asinine - people can still feel free to criticize it's shortcomings for that generations expectations. Just like this gen Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo all had their own shortcomings and positives.

 

[Famassu]

its the first HD console from nintendo.

yes i agree its completely new,for them......

others sold hd consoles before.with the same generation games that will appear now on the wiiu.

but they just had standard controllers in the box and sold accessories that do what the wiiu does(smartglass/some vita software)

Nintendo just does the opposite(sells controller with screen,as accessory the standard controller) but still in the current technological level.

It's completely new hardware for EVERYONE, hence it's an 8th generation console.

 

[hachi]

Stop trying to make a simple term into some grand indicator of tech progress.


Current-gen - the consoles currently supported as the flagships of respective brands, still relevant and with significant new games

Last-gen - the systems prior to those above, no longer supported with big titles

Next-gen - pure speculation and nonsense until it's on the shelf with games; buzzword for what's coming on the horizon; also applied to a new console for a short period after launch (like a "new!" sticker on a package), but overextended to absurdity in certain circles on the internet

 

[Perkel]

We haven't been using the argument that hardware doesn't matter in defining generations, we've been arguing that hardware POWER doesn't matter. The hardware does need to be and has always been different between generations (and is even in Wii U's case), but we just don't think there needs to be some arbitrary improvement in a console's GHz number for it to be considered next-gen. It does have to be a clearly new console, but its relative power doesn't really matter. Wii U is not just Wii made smaller, it's a completely new hardware from the grounds up.

Thanks ! It's good to know that my wii will play most of next gen games same as i could play Assasin Creed 3 on my Wii.

Games decide now what is next gen and what is not.

If Fifa 2015 will have different version for ps420 and different one for last gen systems like they already doing that. Tell me that again when WiiU will have version for last gens like Wii did.

I wonder what will people do when Nintendo will hold their 5 year console plan and there will be WiiU2 in 2017. What will you call it ? next next gen ?

Because that was normal thing in earlier generations and that was one of the main reasons for creating generations.

 

[Famassu]

As insane as this line of questioning is: it's the PS3's brother or sister. Same generation.

Nah, it's not even PS3's brother, it's just a PS3 who has maybe started to work out, dress better or otherwise just kind of gone kind of "I want to improve myself"

 

[plufim]

Really? You really think what I said supports your argument?

Yes, they're "brothers", because they're still a playstation 3. The Wii U is the next Nintendo console. The next generation.

The guts of the console don't mean a goddam thing, it is that it is a new system.

 

[Wix]

Nah, it's not even PS3's brother, it's just a PS3 who has maybe started to work out, dress better or otherwise just kind of gone kind of "I want to improve myself"

And now we´re discussing whether the new PS3 is a sibling, a supermodel, or simply has been working out.

 

[sTeLioSco]

As insane as this line of questioning is: it's the PS3's brother or sister. Same generation.

but what if one child is 50 years old and his brother is 10 years old?

is it still the same generation??

they both come from the same parents but they will have a massive gap of knowledge and understating of the world.

 

[Sadist]

Brother, sister, mother, father...

What's next? We're going to check up on all the guests who were at the wedding?

 

[Alexios]

Thanks ! It's good to know that my wii will play most of next gen games same as i could play Assasin Creed 3 on my Wii.

Wii didn't get Aassassin's Creed 3 but it got ports of Modern Warfare 1 and 3 and Black Ops, Sengoku Basara 3, De Blob 2, Sonic Unleashed, various music and fitness games, etc. The other consoles then didn't get Monster Hunter Tri, Muramasa: The Demon's Blade, Trauma Team, Red Steel 2, Sonic Colors, Tatsunoko vs Capcom, Rune Factory Frontier, etc. Which set of games you liked more doesn't mean shit to anyone but you. The GameCube also lacked third party support (maybe not as much as Wii, but still) compared to PS2, was it not of the same generation? What about the Vita and its current state, will it only become a current gen handheld when it starts doing better and receiving more support? Was the PSP the same, initially a last generation handheld and then suddenly a current handheld when it started getting games like Monster Hunter? What about the Dreamcast, that sure as hell got even less support than the Wii since it died so fast, was it of the PlayStation/Saturn generation? Your logic is all over the place.

 

[Boss Doggie]

Thanks ! It's good to know that my wii will play most of next gen games same as i could play Assasin Creed 3 on my Wii.

Games decide now what is next gen and what is not.

By that logic the PS2 is current gen because it got ports of current gen games?

 

[plufim]

they both come from the same parents but they will have a massive gap of knowledge and understating of the world.

WHICH ISN'T RELEVANT BECAUSE KNOWLEDGE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT A GENERATION IS JESUS FUCKING CHRIST

 

[sTeLioSco]

WHICH ISN'T RELEVANT BECAUSE KNOWLEDGE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT A GENERATION IS JESUS FUCKING CHRIST

if you see a 50 year old guy on the street you will say that its the same generation as a 5 year old??

even if they are brothers and you dont know it.

 

[Perkel]

Games available on the Wii U are not available on the 7th generation consoles though, either in the same capacity or at all. So your most important categorization of generation suggests Wii U is next-gen.

And frankly it has everything to do with timeframe. Consoles competing for marketshare do not have to have the exact same feature set as their competitors to capture some of that market. To say the Wii U is 7th gen suggests it competes with PS3 and 360, and Wii being 6th gen suggests it competes with PS2/GCN/DC/XBox. But in real world terms, in how the videogame market works, this isn't how it works.


Acting like the Wii U is a gen behind just shows an anti-Nintendo bias. I'm fine with people not liking Nintendo and finding them inferior for whatever reasons - after all, this'll be the third generation I've had to see it happen. But to distort reality and language for this agenda is completely asinine - people can still feel free to criticize it's shortcomings for that generations expectations. Just like this gen Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo all had their own shortcomings and positives.

1st. Games doesn't mean sticker on box. Games must be different and better in generall on technological aspect.

2nd. That is false with proof in earlier generations (same companies released multiple consoles in same generation)

3rd. "Acting like the Wii U is a gen behind just shows an anti-Nintendo bias." Noticing fact that new hardware is not vasty better than old hardware is bias ? I like nintendo but i don't agree on terminology. Nintendo uses it's own metric now. Even industry do not fallow Nintendo anymore. We saw that with Wii most of games were not released on Wii. Wii U is new generation of nintendo hardware but for industry and gamers it is current gen and by the looks it will play the same games what currently are on PS3 and X360. That is what games matter the most.

 

[Boss Doggie]

WHICH ISN'T RELEVANT BECAUSE KNOWLEDGE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT A GENERATION IS JESUS FUCKING CHRIST

I already gave up when he compared Wii U to PS3 Super Slim

 

[Htown]

Generation refers to the period of time during which a console or handheld is active, not its relative power. Gamecube, Xbox, and PS2 were the same hardware generation. Wii, Xbox 360, and PS3 were the same hardware generation. PSP and DS were the same hardware generation. Vita and 3DS are the same hardware generation. WiiU, NextBox and PS4 will be the same hardware generation.

It's not difficult.

 

[Famassu]

Thanks ! It's good to know that my wii will play most of next gen games same as i could play Assasin Creed 3 on my Wii.

and now you went stupid again. :|

Games decide now what is next gen and what is not.

No.

If Fifa 2015 will have different version for ps420 and different one for last gen systems like they already doing that. Tell me that again when WiiU will have version for last gens like Wii did.

Wii had the best and most differently playing version of Pro Evolution Soccer (in comparison to the previous generation), does that mean Wii is the only 7th generation console? I mean, different versions of games mean jack shit in defining console generations.

I wonder what will people do when Nintendo will hold their 5 year console plan and there will be WiiU2 in 2017. What will you call it ? next next gen ?

What 5 year plan? As far as I see it, it has already been 6 years since the launch of Wii. Microsoft took less between Xbox & Xbox 360.

But yes, if Nintendo released a new console in 2017, then that would be a ninth generation console (and I'll guarantee that PS5 & NextNextbox wouldn't be more than one or two years late to the ninth generation party). The reason why this generation has gone on for as long as it has with Xbox 360 especially is because it has been a troubled generation (manufacturers losing a lot of money & game publishers struggling with making games efficiently for platforms with such high specs). Microsoft lost a shitton of money with Xbox and we're losing more with Xbox 360, so they aren't going to jump ship too early now that Xbox 360 is finally making a lot of profit. Sony screwed up with PS3 early this gen and lost a shitton of money with it, so they aren't willing to start the next generation while they are still making significant money with PS3. And (some) 3rd parties have finally started to grasp how to make games efficiently, though there are still some problems.

 

[Htown]

I think the problem is that people are taking a term that is used to express a period of time, and attempting to use it as a measure of quality.

It doesn't work that way.

 

[Perkel]

Wii didn't get AC3 but it got MW3, Sengoku Basara 3, etc. The other consoles didn't get Monster Hunter Tri, Muramasa: The Demon's Blade, Trauma Team, etc. The GameCube also lacked third party support (maybe not as much as Wii, but still) compared to PS2, was it not of the same gen? What about the Vita and its current state, will it only become a current gen handheld when it starts doing better and receiving more support? What about the Dreamcast, that sure as hell got even less support than the Wii since it died so fast, was it of the PlayStation/Saturn generation or what? Your logic is all over the place.

lol. Now where is Skyrim, GTA4, Dead Space, Mirrors Edge and many many many other good games ?

And why do you think most developers omitted best selling console this generation (yuck) ? Wii is not GC. Wii sold most not ps3 or x360.

 

[Boss Doggie]

Oh now it's "good games".

EDIT: Just so I won't come off as condensing, why is it suddenly "certain games matter unless I say so?"

 

[2MF]

I think the problem is that people are taking a term that is used to express a period of time, and attempting to use it as a measure of quality.

It doesn't work that way.

Exactly. The part which makes it even more ridiculous is that people only started using this new definition of "gen" when the Wii started kicking everyone's ass.

Pathetically, this twisted definition was even used to defend that the PS3/360 were not getting their asses handed to them by the Wii.

 

[Penguin]

I think the problem is that people are taking a term that is used to express a period of time, and attempting to use it as a measure of quality.

It doesn't work that way.

This essentially.

Both words have standard meanings

Doesn't mean gamers get to redefine it for their viewpoint.

 

[Pineconn]

lol. Now where is Skyrim, GTA4, Dead Space, Mirrors Edge and many many many other good games?

Does not compute.

 

[Alexios]

lol. Now where is Skyrim, GTA4, Dead Space, Mirrors Edge and many many many other good games ?

So what amount of ports and exclusives (of which I only mentioned a few myself, there are many more, just as there are many more it didn't get) is the threshold to be accepted as of the same generation, that the GC and Dreamcast somehow passed but Wii didn't, and how did it come to be? "lol" doesn't qualify as an argument. Nice to see you sneak in yet another qualifier too, "good games", giving you room to further boost your subjective views as some kind of standard and dismiss any other's.

As for trying to state the obvious, ie, that Wii was underpowered so some games couldn't be ported (though others could, we were told MW couldn't be but then it was proven false), it has nothing to do with my points and is something nobody has disputed so I don't know why you bring it up. Not that it was the only reason it lacked support of course (again, see the GC, Dreamcast, etc).

i agree. current technology hd console that released after current hd consoles.

Just as PCs are only as good as consoles when we look at certain ports and how they don't offer significant improvements, because we all know games don't have anything to do with financials and if the systems were actually more capable any developer could essentially remake a port with all new jaw dropping visuals (not to mention exclusives, obviously Wasteland 2 should look like current console FMV if PCs were totally powerful, so the truth must be they aren't!). I mean, why wouldn't they, it would be so rad!

Though, again, nobody's saying WiiU is really a huge technological leap, or as huge as the next PS and Xbox (not saying it's not either, it's quite the unknown quantity, especially the latter). Just that regardless if it is or isn't, that's not what qualifies the next/current/last gen monicker. Because it doesn't. And even Perkel here agrees, and says it's the games/support/whatever else that matters (so essentially the time frame, because obviously the PS2 had tons of support, but in its time, not now, so it was current then, not now), though he then chooses to only qualify the games he wants and pretend everything else doesn't matter...

 

[denshuu]

The amount of mental and semantic gymnastics you people are going through just to be able to call the Wii U a next-gen system looks exhausting. Why not just make it easier on yourselves and call it what it is?

 

[batbeg]

1st. Games doesn't mean sticker on box. Games must be different and better in generall on technological aspect.

2nd. That is false with proof in earlier generations (same companies released multiple consoles in same generation)

3rd. "Acting like the Wii U is a gen behind just shows an anti-Nintendo bias." Noticing fact that new hardw are is not vasty better than old hardware. is bias ? I like nintendo but i don't agree on terminology. Nintendo uses it's own metric now. Even industry do not fallow Nintendo anymore. We saw that with Wii most of games were not rleased on Wii. Wii U is new generation of nintendo hardware but for industry and gamers it is current gen and by the looks it will play the same games what currently are on PS3 and X360. That is what games matter the most.

Okay then, your first point is entirely subjective but seems to show your willingness to dismiss an entire library for not exceeding the hardware it was created for. Your second point doesn't even make sense unless you're referring to new SKUs, a completely irrelevant practice to this discussion.

Your last point shows your reading comprehension level needing some work. Feel free to criticize: its underpowered, its online likely is not up to par, and its third party output will likely be lacking. This doesn't change the fact that when it controls a certain percentage of the marketshare from the inevitable PS420 it will be in its generation. Trends that trend on one will likely expand to the others, just like motion control gaming and party gaming did this gen.

The fact that you think it will only be playing PS360 titles is bewildering. I certainly don't remember playing NSMB Wii, Wii Sports, Little Kings Story, Endless Ocean, Rune Factory, No More Heroes, Xenoblade, Zak and Wiki, Kororinpa, Crystal Bearers, and dozens of others on the PS2. But hey, you're probably right, we haven't seen anything to suggest the Wii U will have its own unique software library, right?

 

[Penguin]

The amount of mental and semantic gymnastics you people are going through just to be able to call the Wii U a next-gen system looks exhausting. Why not just make it easier on yourselves and call it what it is?

Wait mental gymnastics to call it a next-gen system?

Isn't it the other way around?

I mean it is literally a NEXT gen device because it comes after the CURRENT gen

There's no gymnastics involved in an order of succession.

 

[sTeLioSco]

The amount of mental and semantic gymnastics you people are going through just to be able to call the Wii U a next-gen system looks exhausting. Why not just make it easier on yourselves and call it what it is?

i agree. current technology hd console that released after current hd consoles.

 

[Boss Doggie]

The amount of mental and semantic gymnastics you people are going through just to be able to call the Wii U a next-gen system looks exhausting. Why not just make it easier on yourselves and call it what it is?

I'm pretty sure it's the other way around.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

Generation refers to the period of time during which a console or handheld is active, not its relative power. Gamecube, Xbox, and PS2 were the same hardware generation. Wii, Xbox 360, and PS3 were the same hardware generation. PSP and DS were the same hardware generation. Vita and 3DS are the same hardware generation. WiiU, NextBox and PS4 will be the same hardware generation.

It's not difficult.

Right. If Sega came out with a new 16 bit machine and called it Mega Drive 2 it would be current gen.

 

[Sianos]

A system is last gen when a successor to that system is released. It's a very simple concept.

 

[Perkel]

But yes, if Nintendo released a new console in 2017, then that would be a ninth generation console (and I'll guarantee that PS5 & NextNextbox wouldn't be more than one or two years late to the ninth generation party).

So what about earlier generations ? Why aren't we 10th generation or more ? If time frame is describing generation then why do you use WiiU as start of new generation and release of last console of big three as it's end. What if Ouya would come in 2010 ? Next-Gen ? Current Gen ? Now add Sega releasing entirely new console in 2011. So when would you start new generation ? in 2006 with Wii ? Velve steambox in 2008, 2010 with Ouya, 2011 with new Dreamcast 2 or 2012 with WiiU ? Because that was normal practice for releasing consoles in earlier generations.

As i said earlier overall package is what matter not some numerological bullshit or some pseudo timeframe.

 

[Penguin]

So what about earlier generations ? Why aren't we 10th generation or more ? If time frame is describing generation then why do you use WiiU as start of new generation and release of last console of big three as it's end. What if Ouya would come in 2010 ? Next-Gen ? Current Gen ? Now add Sega releasing entirely new console in 2011. So when would you start new generation ? in 2006 with Wii ? Velve steambox in 2008, 2010 with Ouya, 2011 with new Dreamcast 2 or 2012 with WiiU ? Because that was normal practice for releasing consoles in earlier generations.

As i said earlier overall package is what matter not some numerological bullshit or some pseudo timeframe.

You are using an example.. whatever giving context

Like none of those systems exist.. so how can we say what gen they would have been in

Though I would imagine Ouya in 2010 would be next-gen since it would have been just past the traditional 5 year window we associate with a console generation.
And anything post that would be next-gen as well.

 

[AkimbO_Arcana]

A system is last gen when a successor to that system is released. It's a very simple concept.

Six pages like to disagree. To some it's apparently not that simple.

 

[Sianos]

Six pages like to disagree. To some it's apparently not that simple.

I'm not sure why everyone gets so riled up over classifying consoles. The simplest method on my eyes is just to classify them based on succeeding upon and replacing past consoles.

Even better would be to stop the x-gen bullshit and talk about each system/game on its own, in my opinion.

 

[Perkel]

You are using an example.. whatever giving context

Like none of those systems exist.. so how can we say what gen they would have been in

Though I would imagine Ouya in 2010 would be next-gen since it would have been just past the traditional 5 year window we associate with a console generation.
And anything post that would be next-gen as well.

You omitted that this was comparition to what was in earlier generations. Most of people say it's 8th gen now. I ask why ? Because already in earlier generations there were multiple consoles from same companies and they were qualified as one generation. By today generation standard which people use it should be 10 or 12 gen not 7th or 8th.

I'm not sure why everyone gets so riled up over classifying consoles. The simplest method on my eyes is just to classify them based on succeeding upon and replacing past consoles.

Even better would be to stop the x-gen bullshit and talk about each system/game on its own, in my opinion.

Because a lot of people are butthurt that people call console with old tech current gen. Most of people playing on any other hardware than Wii be it PC, PS3 and X360 are fed up with lack of progress. They simply want new generation of consoles to step up and improve things.

 

[2MF]

So what about earlier generations ? Why aren't we 10th generation or more ? If time frame is describing generation then why do you use WiiU as start of new generation and release of last console of big three as it's end. What if Ouya would come in 2010 ? Next-Gen ? Current Gen ? Now add Sega releasing entirely new console in 2011. So when would you start new generation ? in 2006 with Wii ? Velve steambox in 2008, 2010 with Ouya, 2011 with new Dreamcast 2 or 2012 with WiiU ? Because that was normal practice for releasing consoles in earlier generations.

Many times the minor competitors are ignored, and the major competitors tend to release not too far from each other since, well, they are competing obviously...

As i said earlier overall package is what matter not some numerological bullshit or some pseudo timeframe.

That doesn't really solve any problems, it merely replaces what you call "numerological bullshit" with your own brand of bullshit based on "technological specs" which conveniently ignore the advances made by the Wii and Wii U (motion controls / asymmetric gaming etc.) and overvalue graphical improvements.

 

[AkimbO_Arcana]

The amount of mental and semantic gymnastics you people are going through just to be able to call the Wii U a next-gen system looks exhausting. Why not just make it easier on yourselves and call it what it is?

lol I hope you are joking...

 

[dark10x]

If the Wii-U has newer hardware and more RAM than current gen, how is it just meeting this gen standards?

So it's more of an Atari Jaguar/3DO/Dreamcast situation (ignoring lack of success). The hardware is a half step beyond two of the key platforms this generation but likely won't stack up to the machines released beyond.

More accurately, it's just the Wii all over again. Nobody considers the Wii on the same level as 360 and PS3 just as it's unlikely the WiiU will be on the same level as the next Sony and MS machines.