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The difference between the original DMC games is bizarre

Sadist

Member
As in, to someone who never played the earlier games in the series; I've always liked character action games, but apart from Devil May Cry 4 I never got around playing the original games. Last week I bought the DMC HD collection after mulling about it for months and honestly, I'm surprised that the collection holds up so well for games from the early 2000's. Currently I'm fighting my way through DMC 3 SE, but after several hours of these games its almost staggering how different these titles are when compared to each other. And I'm still not sure how DMC 2 ever got greenlit...

But, Devil May Cry, is still a good game. Sure, modern character action games run circles around it 16 years later, but I'm surprised at how well it plays: the original release was in 2001. I've used my PS3 as a way to play some PS2 classics thanks to HD Collections, but the majority of those releases felt pretty stale and in some cases I had to force myself to complete these. Maybe it's because its a short game, but the game never dragged on and the controls are pretty responsive. Of course, its not as fluid combat wise, but this was the first time for Kamiya discovering the genre and we all know where he ended up. The only thing I didn't care for is the cramped area in which the game takes place. I understand why, new asset creation takes a while and this was an early PS2 title, but in this case it was a good thing the game isn't long. Also, in several aspects you still can discover the Resident Evil-roots of the game: every time using a relic prompted a "Item X seems to fit here. Do you want to use item X?" message like in the RE game when inserting items. Had a good time.

Well and then there's... Devil May Cry 2. I always hear about DMC 2 being this abomination, so I had this morbid curiousity to try it out, but damn, I never expected this. The first thing that popped into my mind after completing the first few levels of this game was "It's the Ninja Gaiden 3 of the DMC series!". What the hell happened here? Reading up on the game's development and seeing how Kamiya's team wasn't involved with this games makes sense because of the extreme drop in quality, but I don't understand Capcom. You have a great title debuting on PS2, you have a great team and you just drop an entirely different development team on the sequel? And to make matters worse, it seems the new team doesn't have a clue on what the original was about? I mean, look at how Dante is protrayed in this game: in the original he was confident, bit cocky and a chatterbox. In DMC 2 he doesn't talk much, is a jerk in regards to other people and well... a completely different character.

And don't get me started on the game itself. It's so bland. I mean I remember older GAF threads destroying this game and what not, but the thing is, it's not that bad. Don't get me wrong, its far from being good. But in the end, it's just there. And it all works, but there is no energy in this game. Combo's don't feel exciting, enemies aren't challenging and the design of the world is so uninspired. You just walk to the next room, kill some enemies, on to the next, another kill room and hey a boring boss. I really had to push myself in finishing this, because the end game was even worse. I mean, the main villain? What kind of a joke was that!? Ugh. And hey, the game is telling me I can challenge the Lucia campaign? Or play again in Dante's new atire by the brand Diesel? Wait what? Yeah no.

Currently I'm playing Devil May Cry 3 Special Edition and man, again it's an entirely different just like the other two, but in this case it feels like a natural evolution from the original and not some weird regression like DMC 2. Young Dante luckily has more personality in the first five missions thank god, but the game itself and the mechanics are so much better and smooth; the combat is more fluid, its adding the things that I missed in the original. Also the addition of battle styles is fun, although I'm keeping to just Trickster right now.

Playing these back to back though, it really is surprising to see how Capcom tackled DMC as a franchise and how weirdly they were managing it back then. Or, well, after DMC 3 they still did so when looking at DMC 4 and DmC. They keep changing it and it doesn't give the franchise any stabillity. I mean, you always need to change up your franchises every now and then (cass in point, see the Resident Evil-series) but in this case its really bizarre.
 
DMC2 was apparently a different game they reskinned half way through which would explain the issues.
DMC1 originated as a RE prototype and then became its own thing.
3 was probably the first ground up sequel for the franchise and they probably had a clearer vision of what they wanted out of it.

Though it is weird how poorly managed the franchise has been. It was really popular back in the day but the sequel not being the sequel probably hurt it a bit and 4 being unfinished didn't do it any favors and then DmC completely change once again.
Though that's Capcom for you
 
The reason DMC2 feels so different is because it started out as a different game starring Lucia. I want to say the original intention was for it to be a Metroidvania that takes place in the two cities.

At some point, development was going down the shitter, so Capcom brought on Itsuno to try and right the ship and also to make it into a Devil May Cry game because it wasn't going to sell on its own. Itsuno did his best to fix it, but there was only so much anyone could do, and it eventually shipped as Devil May Cry 2 (and sold pretty well because of the name).

It's probably why Itsuno got carte blanche to do DMC3 how he wanted.
 

kikiribu

Member
Hated DMC2 but it had my favorite Dante design.

DMC1 had the best atmosphere but DMC3 is just godlike with all its gameplay options.

I'd really like to play DMC3 again but my PS3 has been dead since 2009. Capcom why are you stupid like this? DMC3 PS4 please.
 
Devil May Cry 2 is just a bizarrely depressing game. Maybe I'm just ignorant of how business works but it seems strange that Capcom chose to even release it at all - the game genuinely has no redeeming qualities (I don't feel I'm being hyperbolic here), and you would think that potential damage to the brand would be worse than the short-term profits earned from shitting out a sequel to Devil May Cry.

1 and 3 are excellent games. 4 too.
 

Sadist

Member
The reason DMC2 feels so different is because it started out as a different game starring Lucia. I want to say the original intention was for it to be a Metroidvania that takes place in the two cities.

At some point, development was going down the shitter, so Capcom brought on Itsuno to try and right the ship and also to make it into a Devil May Cry game because it wasn't going to sell on its own. Itsuno did his best to fix it, but there was only so much anyone could do, and it eventually shipped as Devil May Cry 2 (and sold pretty well because of the name).

It's probably why Itsuno got carte blanche to do DMC3 how he wanted.
Hmmm, that makes sense. Guess Capcom back then had its fair share of problems back then too regarding development. Wonder who was responisble for the original Lucia project then. Dude made some horrible decisions back then.
 

Gator86

Member
DMC2 was apparently a different game they reskinned half way through which would explain the issues.
DMC1 originated as a RE prototype and then became its own thing.
3 was probably the first ground up sequel for the franchise and they probably had a clearer vision of what they wanted out of it.

Though it is weird how poorly managed the franchise has been. It was really popular back in the day but the sequel not being the sequel probably hurt it a bit and 4 being unfinished didn't do it any favors and then DmC completely change once again.
Though that's Capcom for you

Basically. Sometimes it's crazy to think where these franchises would be today if Capcom's management wasn't just a cat asleep on a keyboard in the CEO's office. DMC should still be a top of the line franchise.
 

Glix

Member
Well and then there's... Devil May Cry 2. I always hear about DMC 2 being this abomination, so I had this morbid curiousity to try it out, but damn, I never expected this. The first thing that popped into my mind after completing the first few levels of this game was "It's the Ninja Gaiden 3 of the DMC series!". What the hell happened here? Reading up on the game's development and seeing how Kamiya's team wasn't involved with this games makes sense because of the extreme drop in quality, but I don't understand Capcom. You have a great title debuting on PS2, you have a great team and you just drop an entirely different development team on the sequel? And to make matters worse, it seems the new team doesn't have a clue on what the original was about? I mean, look at how Dante is protrayed in this game: in the original he was confident, bit cocky and a chatterbox. In DMC 2 he doesn't talk much, is a jerk in regards to other people and well... a completely different character.

And don't get me started on the game itself. It's so bland. I mean I remember older GAF threads destroying this game and what not, but the thing is, it's not that bad. Don't get me wrong, its far from being good. But in the end, it's just there. And it all works, but there is no energy in this game. Combo's don't feel exciting, enemies aren't challenging and the design of the world is so uninspired. You just walk to the next room, kill some enemies, on to the next, another kill room and hey a boring boss. I really had to push myself in finishing this, because the end game was even worse. I mean, the main villain? What kind of a joke was that!? Ugh. And hey, the game is telling me I can challenge the Lucia campaign? Or play again in Dante's new atire by the brand Diesel? Wait what? Yeah no.

.

This was strangely common back int the day. Pubs would get a "B" team to shit out a sequel, and have it coast on name and marketing, while the original team worked on something else.

I wish I could think of some examples, but I remember it driving me nuts with certain titles back in the day.
 
DMC4 felt really good after 3 as well. I put DMC3 and DMC4 as the best 2 in the orignal series. It's crazy that we haven't had a new one in so long. Seems like that universe is so easy to "flesh out" with new random stories.
 
Even though DMC3 is inarguably the most polished and refined to actually play, the first game is still my favorite due to its thick gothy b-movie atmosphere and soundtrack. DMC has always been tongue-in-cheek, but the first game leans into the "serious" mood juuuust a bit more, which is probably because of its roots as a RE spinoff or whatever.
 
Even though DMC3 is inarguably the most polished and refined to actually play, the first game is still my favorite due to its thick gothy b-movie atmosphere and soundtrack. DMC has always been tongue-in-cheek, but the first game leans into the "serious" mood juuuust a bit more, which is probably because of its roots as a RE spinoff or whatever.

I don't really think it's inarguable, honestly. 3 is an absolutely stellar game but I think even putting aside aesthetics and just looking at combat, 1 is still a bit better.
 
Even though DMC3 is inarguably the most polished and refined to actually play, the first game is still my favorite due to its thick gothy b-movie atmosphere and soundtrack. DMC has always been tongue-in-cheek, but the first game leans into the "serious" mood juuuust a bit more, which is probably because of its roots as a RE spinoff or whatever.

"Trish, devils never cry..."

😭😭😭
 

firelogic

Member
1 and 3 are top tier. 4 is ok. I never got around to playing 2 because of all the hatred surrounding it. DmC was fun but it wasn't DMC. They should have made it into a new IP. I guarantee it would have sold better.
 

Bucca

Fools are always so certain of themselves, but wiser men so full of doubts.
I've yet to see DMC3's falling-off-the-tower cinematic with Dante be beat.
 

Sadist

Member
Even though DMC3 is inarguably the most polished and refined to actually play, the first game is still my favorite due to its thick gothy b-movie atmosphere and soundtrack. DMC has always been tongue-in-cheek, but the first game leans into the "serious" mood juuuust a bit more, which is probably because of its roots as a RE spinoff or whatever.
Thats what I like best in regards to the original as well. The game has the best kind of b-movie vibe I mostly adore in games.

In regards to DMC 3 being the best action game ever made, I guess I'll find out. There are some serious contenders out there.
 
I found the actual level design in DMC 3 to be pretty terrible. This is why I'm always going to prefer DMC 1. although it doesn't set the world on fire, its interconnectivity and minor puzzles keep it more interesting despite the weaker battle system.

TLDR DMC 1 is the better overall package.
 

Sesha

Member
The games had three mostly different teams, three different directors (Itsuno only took over DMC2 near the end of development when the original director quit), and each started out as different games (only DMC3 started out development as a DMC game).

DMC2 and DMC3 were made by the same team, lol.

Actually, aside from Itsuno and most of the planners, few members of the DMC2 team moved on to DMC3. DMC3's team consisted of a lot of new hires and staff who'd never shipped a title before.
 

Pachimari

Member
Devil May Cry 2 is still one of the best games in the series. Kind of how Angel of Darkness is also one of the best in its series. That said, my one mistake is that I never got to spend a lot of time with DMC3, so I too shall look into revisiting these games and get the HD collection.
 

Raonak

Banned
DMC2 is fucking weird. I wished they would just retcon it, or make some BS up like it's not really dante, but the doppelganger from DMC3 masquerading as dante.


The one problem with the game is the level design, which has been kinda shit across all DMC games.
For a game with such an amazing battle system, that passively encourages replaying older levels (or bloody palace) to get better at defeating specific enemies. it's weird that they chose to do a linear romp instead of going for more of a monster hunter style mission system.

especially since It's a game about a devil hunter taking on random jobs, but the story is almost never about that. you never really find out much about the "Devil May Cry" business.
 

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
DMC2 is fucking weird. I wished they would just retcon it, or make some BS up like it's not really dante, but the doppelganger from DMC3 masquerading as dante.


The one problem with the game is the level design, which has been kinda shit across all DMC games.
For a game with such an amazing battle system, that passively encourages replaying older levels (or bloody palace) to get better at defeating specific enemies. it's weird that they chose to do a linear romp instead of going for more of a monster hunter style mission system.

especially since It's a game about a devil hunter taking on random jobs, but the story is almost never about that. you never really find out much about the "Devil May Cry" business.
Because it started off as a RE game it used the fixed camera perspective, and never really deterred from that until DmC as it really felt janky by the time DMC4 came out since it switched between free cameras and fixed cameras at a whim. Feel a return to the 3D castlevania with less emphasis on flashy combos like the first game, (ROOTS), is the only way they can really make this series relevant and unique again.
 

Lork

Member
I don't really think it's inarguable, honestly. 3 is an absolutely stellar game but I think even putting aside aesthetics and just looking at combat, 1 is still a bit better.
Yep. People like to talk about "the combat" in extremely non specific ways to try to justify their opinion that DMC3 or whatever else is the best game in the genre, but things are never so black and white that you can get away with making a monolithic statement like that.
Dante's ever expanding moveset in the sequels is a good thing, but it's not everything. Devil May Cry 1's enemy, encounter and level design blows that of its sequels and successors out of the water.
 

moeman

Member
This was strangely common back int the day. Pubs would get a "B" team to shit out a sequel, and have it coast on name and marketing, while the original team worked on something else.

I wish I could think of some examples, but I remember it driving me nuts with certain titles back in the day.

Shadow of Rome.

Man that game was awesome.
 

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Yep. People like to talk about "the combat" in extremely non specific ways to try to justify their opinion that DMC3 or whatever else is the best game in the genre, but things are never so black and white that you can get away with making a monolithic statement like that.
Dante's ever expanding moveset in the sequels is a good thing, but it's not everything. Devil May Cry 1's enemy, encounter and level design blows that of its sequels and successors out of the water.
You know you really gotta admire the sheer restraint of the first game, the series and genre in general got super cutscene and exposition heavy overtime. Likely due to limitations in tools, time and budget the game really focused a lot less on cutscenes and moreso on exploration and shorter scenes. And ofc non flanderized OG Dante.
 

Shifty

Member
Dante's ever expanding moveset in the sequels is a good thing, but it's not everything. Devil May Cry 1's enemy, encounter and level design blows that of its sequels and successors out of the water.

This right here. The atmosphere of going into a spooky-ass demon castle solo and fending off the horrors therein needs to come back.

I was always disappointed that they ditched the bestiary after the first game. Having it fill out all sorts of interesting strategies and quirks for each enemy as you discovered them was really interesting and played to the idea that Dante is a demon hunter.
Not to mention the fact that the enemies were more complex to support that- being able to land on a shadow's extended spear form and temporarily stun it is by far the coolest enemy-specific mechanic I've come across in an action game.
 

NotLiquid

Member
Even though DMC3 is inarguably the most polished and refined to actually play, the first game is still my favorite due to its thick gothy b-movie atmosphere and soundtrack. DMC has always been tongue-in-cheek, but the first game leans into the "serious" mood juuuust a bit more, which is probably because of its roots as a RE spinoff or whatever.

I would also argue DMC1 has a very elegant way of combat design because of it's roots as an RE game. It knows when to throw enemies at you and the restrained spaces make for great combat encounters. Even if the game isn't as zany as DMC3 and doesn't have as mechanically of a complex battle system, it's no less satisfying to fight within the parameters. It's a simpler game to swallow, but certainly not lesser for it; it's stylish in it's own way.
 

kc44135

Member
I actually love that all the DMC games feel so different from one another. I love when a franchise sticks to it's core concepts, but doesn't rest on it's laurels. It makes every new game in the franchise that much more exciting, and it makes older games in the franchise easier to go back to as well, since they don't feel as though they've been made obsolete by newer entries. That's part of why many of my favorite series (Mario, Zelda, Metroid, DMC, RE, etc.) are, well, my favorites.
Because it started off as a RE game it used the fixed camera perspective, and never really deterred from that until DmC as it really felt janky by the time DMC4 came out since it switched between free cameras and fixed cameras at a whim. Feel a return to the 3D castlevania with less emphasis on flashy combos like the first game, (ROOTS), is the only way they can really make this series relevant and unique again.
Agreed, I would love to see a return to the Castle setting from the first game. It's so much more memorable and atmospheric than what the later games offered, especially coupled with the RE style fixed camera angles.
Yep. People like to talk about "the combat" in extremely non specific ways to try to justify their opinion that DMC3 or whatever else is the best game in the genre, but things are never so black and white that you can get away with making a monolithic statement like that.
Dante's ever expanding moveset in the sequels is a good thing, but it's not everything. Devil May Cry 1's enemy, encounter and level design blows that of its sequels and successors out of the water.
I agree that DMC1 does a lot of specific things much better than it's sequels. It still feels unique, even within the genre it created. It does have some issues with it's combat that make me prefer the sequels overall though, at least in terms of combat mechanics.

There's no reticule when you lock on to enemies, and no way to switch targets. The analog controls and camera controls aren't always good bedfellows. Finally, and most crucially, the enemies don't appear to de-aggro when off-screen. In DMC 3 and 4 (not sure about 2 because that game sucks and I never played much of it), enemies wouldn't attack when the camera isn't positioned on them, but in DMC1, they can, and often will, attack you from off-screen, which can be infuriating, especially on higher difficulties. In spite of all that, I still feel the game holds up in the face of it's sequels, mainly due to it having by far the best enemy, boss, and level designs of the series, plus incredible atmosphere and a killer gothic soundtrack. Oh, and classic Capcom cheesy voice acting. 😁
 
J

JeremyEtcetera

Unconfirmed Member
People will call DMC 3 zany and wacky but will forget that it also had a ton of good story, drama, and serious Dante moments in it as well. I'd go as far as to say DMC3 had more serious Dante in cut scenes than the other games. So while DMC 1 got the atmosphere right, DMC 3 had the better cut scenes and story.

If you don't believe me look up DMC 3 cutscenes on youtube. The serious stuff outweighs the fun stuff, if by a slight margin.
 

DemWalls

Member
I have an old magazine where the producer says they intentionally made DMC 2 the way it is because they had a different audience in mind. Who knows whether it's true or not, but given that practically the same team then made DMC 3...
Still, if true, it was certainly an interesting idea to change things almost completely after a game that was very well received.
 

Reset

Member
DMC is not a good game, it has aged really badly. I'd rank it last in the series, and consider it to be one of the worst action game that I played. DMC 2 is also pretty bad, but it's more fun than DMC 1.
I consider DMC 4 to be pretty average since half the game is backtracking through the same levels and fighting the same bosses, DMC 3 is the best game of the series though. With DmC coming in second place.
 

Astral Dog

Member
As in, to someone who never played the earlier games in the series; I've always liked character action games, but apart from Devil May Cry 4 I never got around playing the original games. Last week I bought the DMC HD collection after mulling about it for months and honestly, I'm surprised that the collection holds up so well for games from the early 2000's. Currently I'm fighting my way through DMC 3 SE, but after several hours of these games its almost staggering how different these titles are when compared to each other. And I'm still not sure how DMC 2 ever got greenlit...
Its quite interesting, but thats because the series despite its high quality had quite an history of development wich you have to take into account.

Kamiya's team that made DMC1 left Capcom for some reason they decided to do DMC2 separate from him and, well you played the result, DMC 3 was a whole new team made from the DMC 2 team under direction of Hideaki Itsuno, he had blessings from Kamiya to do what he wanted and was trusted with basically soft rebooting the series , Dante and Vergil's story and combat were redefined and given a fresh new face, this game was the fans favorite.


DMC4 still retained the core combat design from 3 just introduced a new protagonist and setting, in an effort to be a bit more marketeable, it was a commercial success but its rushed development resulted in a short campaign filled with backtracking that was critizised and lots of new characters with mixed reception.

Then you have DmC, at that point Inafune at Capcom had a lit of influence and western games were displacing Japanese ones as the most popular, also Itsuno wanted to take a break from the series to focus on his own open world ip called Dragon's Dogma, "DMC 5" was outsourced to ambitious but unproven new developer NINJA THEORY as they were known for their cinematic focus and art design, with help from Capcom on the combat they presented a bold new direction for the series: fans were confused, PR didn't help, Dante didn't even had white hair and Inafune left Capcom.

Then the game was released with good but modest success, a lot of fans critisized the story and gameplay changes others were more receptive.

And now here we are, with both DmC Definitive Edition and Devil May Cry 4 Special Edition released, wondering whats next for Devil May Cry? 🤔
 
J

JeremyEtcetera

Unconfirmed Member
DMC is not a good game, it has aged really badly. I'd rank it last in the series, and consider it to be one of the worst action game that I played. DMC 2 is also pretty bad, but it's more fun than DMC 1.
I consider DMC 4 to be pretty average since half the game is backtracking through the same levels and fighting the same bosses, DMC 3 is the best game of the series though. With DmC coming in second place.

When you really think about it, all 4 DMC games have backtracking in the latter half of the games. DMC 4 just made it way more obvious. Think back on the areas you explored in the second half of 3 and you'll see that they are mirrored/remixed versions of earlier levels.
 

Stoop Man

Member
DMC is not a good game, it has aged really badly. I'd rank it last in the series, and consider it to be one of the worst action game that I played. DMC 2 is also pretty bad, but it's more fun than DMC 1.

Quick, someone call an ambulance! I think this man is having a stroke!
 
OP's right I feel...each game in the classic series, including the SE versions compared to their original games, feel like entirely different beasts from one another.

I WANTED to try and like DMC2...but it's just...so...unfun to me. Melee combat is rather clunky/sluggish I feel...IIRC, only Ebony and Ivory are the most effective firearms...and they're essentially mandatory against bosses/minibosses like the infected helicopters for example I think...big problems pacing wise imo...etc. About the only thing I really like from that game is the customizeable Devil Trigger aspect...I thought it was cool to be able to use different Devil Trigger abilities and such by customizing Dante's amulet I think...I can appreciate the thought behind making the levels larger than the 1st game's, as much as I like that game (best game in series imo, as of now)...I won't lie, some areas in the 1st game were TOO cramped for my tastes...see: 2nd Griffon battle on the moving ship. But the way they went about them...I feel they made the areas a bit TOO open in DMC2...I feel it takes too much time sometimes for Dante to get from point A to point B in that game. So yea, those are some of my thoughts on DMC2.

Because it started off as a RE game it used the fixed camera perspective, and never really deterred from that until DmC as it really felt janky by the time DMC4 came out since it switched between free cameras and fixed cameras at a whim. Feel a return to the 3D castlevania with less emphasis on flashy combos like the first game, (ROOTS), is the only way they can really make this series relevant and unique again.

Yep. People like to talk about "the combat" in extremely non specific ways to try to justify their opinion that DMC3 or whatever else is the best game in the genre, but things are never so black and white that you can get away with making a monolithic statement like that.
Dante's ever expanding moveset in the sequels is a good thing, but it's not everything. Devil May Cry 1's enemy, encounter and level design blows that of its sequels and successors out of the water.

You know you really gotta admire the sheer restraint of the first game, the series and genre in general got super cutscene and exposition heavy overtime. Likely due to limitations in tools, time and budget the game really focused a lot less on cutscenes and moreso on exploration and shorter scenes. And ofc non flanderized OG Dante.

Yay to y'all for recognizing and appreciating some of the genius of DMC1! As I typed a little bit above these quotes, I feel DMC1 is the best of the series so far. The content of these quotes I feel hit on several things that I like about DMC1...I can add several things also that I enjoy about DMC1, but too lazy haha...
 

Reset

Member
When you really think about it, all 4 DMC games have backtracking in the latter half of the games. DMC 4 just made it way more obvious. Think back on the areas you explored in the second half of 3 and you'll see that they are mirrored/remixed versions of earlier levels.

Yeah, backtracking was always a problem with the original series. DmC ended up fixing it, it's a major reason why I hope Capcom copies DmC's level design/structure for the next game.

Quick, someone call an ambulance! I think this man is having a stroke!

Have you played the original recently?
 
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