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The Economist on Hillary Clinton

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Eric P

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http://www.economist.com/world/displaystory.cfm?story_id=9904609

long, but an interesting read.

Ready to run the movie again?
Oct 4th 2007 | WASHINGTON, DC
From The Economist print edition


The betting is that the Clintons will follow the Bushes back into the White House

THE September 29th issue of the National Journal, an inside-the-Beltway magazine, contains a striking news item. Hillary Clinton has quietly signed a deal with the University of Illinois to house her presidential library. The university will put up $15m to help finance the construction and operation of the huge building on its Urbana-Champaign campus, close to where Hillary Rodham was born.

This was, of course, a joke—but it contains a serious point. The political establishment is betting heavily that Hillary Clinton will become America's next president. And it has reason. Mrs Clinton is way out in front of the Democratic field. The latest Washington Post/ABC News poll puts her 33 points ahead of Barack Obama and 40 points ahead of John Edwards. She raised $22m in the last quarter—more than Mr Obama at $19m and much more than Mr Edwards at $7m. The once-mighty Republican Party is a shadow of its former self, divided not only about who should lead it but also about where it should go. Intrade, a pay-to-play prediction market, shows a 36% chance of the Republicans holding the White House alongside a 12% chance of them taking the House and a 7% chance they might take the Senate.

Politicos invariably hedge all this around with qualifications. Howard Dean was well ahead of the Democratic field at this stage of the electoral cycle in 2004. Mr Obama might make a breakthrough in Iowa (where he is nipping Mrs Clinton's heels) and gain enough momentum to win the nomination. Mrs Clinton might stumble and fall. The American electorate might balk at the idea of handing both the White House and Capitol Hill to a single party and go for a Republican president. All possible, of course; but all less likely by the day. Mrs Clinton is not only the front-runner. She is well on the way to becoming a prohibitive front-runner.

This is an extraordinary situation, for all sorts of reasons. The race ought to be wide open: it is the first time that neither party has an incumbent, in the form of a vice-president, since 1928. The rise of the netroots has transferred political power from the Washington establishment to smaller donors. And America is in an anti-establishment mood: the Democratic Congress has even lower approval ratings, at about 27%, than George Bush. Yet Mrs Clinton has all the advantages of an incumbent, from a brand name to an established political machine, without many of the disadvantages.

And this too is odd, since she is one of the most hated figures in American politics. During the 1990s she embodied everything that conservatives hate about female professionals: a bossy harridan who disparaged stay-at-home mothers, tried to reorganise the health-care system that makes up one-seventh of the American economy, and stayed with her tom-catting husband to further her political ambitions. Conservative conferences regularly feature loo-paper with Hillary's face on it and Hillary trolls to throw balls at. CafePress, a web retailer, is selling more than 100,000 anti-Hillary items, including a “Hillary is the Devil” beer stein.

But Hillary-hatred is by no means confined to the right. David Geffen, a Hollywood mogul, gave voice to a widespread feeling on the left when he complained about the Clintons' relationship with truth. “Everybody in politics lies,” he told the New York Times. “But they do it with such ease, it's troubling.” Mrs Clinton has some of the highest negatives of any politician in the business.

And yet here she is, with her husband, looking likely to break all sorts of records. If she wins, Mrs Clinton will be the first female president of the United States—a banner headline in itself—and Mr Clinton will be the first male first spouse. She will be the first president married to a former president. She will also be the first president who is married to a former president who was impeached for having oral sex with an intern in the Oval Office.

This raises all sorts of intriguing questions. How will the first couple be addressed? Mrs and Mr President? Mrs President and Mr Clinton? What will people call Mr Clinton? (He says that his Scottish friends have suggested “first laddie”.) And, more important, what will Mrs Clinton do with her husband? Back in 1992, the Clintons campaigned on the slogan “Buy one, get one free”. But Mrs Clinton's presidency will be doomed if she allows herself to be overshadowed by her more experienced and more charismatic spouse. Not for the first time, Mr Clinton is likely to be both her biggest asset and her biggest liability.

Senate training

The path for the Clinton restoration has been prepared by two things—an implosion and a fizzle. The implosion was provided by the Republican Party, thanks to a combination of runaway spending and incompetence. Five years ago America was evenly divided by party identification: 43% for each party. This year the Democrats have a 50% to 35% advantage. Democratic presidential candidates have raised about 70% more than their Republican rivals. Ohio, Virginia and Colorado are leaning Democratic, and Pennsylvania has gone from a swing-state to a Democratic lock.

The fizzle has been provided by Mr Obama. He is an impressive candidate who still draws bigger and keener crowds than Mrs Clinton, but his performance in the presidential debates has often been listless. His message of “new politics” and reconciliation can seem tired. He has failed to appeal to blue-collar voters who think that politics is about problem-solving rather than inspiration. The fact that he has now fallen behind Mrs Clinton in fund-raising, where he was once comfortably ahead, is dismal news for his campaign.

Mrs Clinton has also positioned herself brilliantly for a presidential run after the traumas of her White House years. She has moved to the centre at a time when powerful forces have been pulling her party to the left. She has softened some of her rough edges, if only cosmetically. And she has accumulated yet more political capital.

Her repositioning started with her Senate run in 2000. She chose to live in suburban Chappaqua, rather than Manhattan, in order to blunt her image as a liberal elitist. She focused on small-bore issues rather than grand schemes, and campaigned relentlessly in the more conservative farming districts. The result was that she won re-election with majorities not just in Manhattan but also upstate.

She also proved to be an exemplary senator. Trent Lott once mused that lightning might strike her before she set foot in the chamber; five years later, according to Joshua Green in the Atlantic Monthly, he became one of 49 Republicans who have sponsored legislation with her. She has been a regular at Senate prayer breakfasts, where something of the old bipartisan Senate survives. She has listened patiently to ancient denizens such as Robert Byrd (who advised her to be a “work horse not a show horse”). She could hardly have done better at managing her twin positions as junior senator and global celebrity.

Outside the Senate, Hillary has displayed the same singleness of purpose. She has relentlessly courted religious voters (whose relationship with the Republican Party is increasingly strained), describing abortion as a “tragic choice”, defining herself as a “praying person”, and employing evangelical Christians on her staff. She has repeatedly rebuffed attempts by the left to harden her opposition to the Iraq war, insisting that she will not foreclose any military options as president. She even appeared in a documentary about Barry Goldwater, praising the Arizona Republican and reminiscing about her first days in politics as a “Goldwater girl”.

She has also devoted a lot of effort to improving her party's infrastructure. She helped John Podesta, her husband's former chief of staff, to found a think-tank, the Centre for American Progress, which is a ready source of ideas and talent. She also supported the American Democracy Institute, which is run by veteran Clinton allies, and Media Matters for America, a media watchdog group, which was founded by David Brock, a former Clinton-hater turned Clintonite. All this helped to ensure that, for all the energy unleashed by the netroots and Al Gore, the Washington Democratic establishment has remained a wholly owned subsidiary of the Clinton family.

Mrs Clinton's careful repositioning has gone hand-in-hand with her husband's rehabilitation. What might be called Mr Clinton's lapses of judgment have faded from the public mind. He likes to remind people that “yesterday's news was pretty good”. His superstar status abroad is a rising asset in a country that is rightly worried about its global image. And Mr Clinton has had an energetic post-presidential career, raising piles of money for his charitable foundation as well as making a fortune for himself and forming a successful double act with George Bush senior, particularly after the tsunami in South-East Asia. He is now more popular among Democrats than when he left the White House, and more popular by far than his wife or any of her rivals. Some 88% of Democrats view him favourably.

The final piece of the Clinton puzzle is her formidable campaign machine. Mrs Clinton has assembled the best collection of pollsters, image-crafters, fund-raisers and hatchet-men in the business; and so far she has managed them successfully. Her campaign has been relentlessly smooth, if a bit mechanical (she is forever bursting out laughing, whether it is appropriate or not, to counteract the idea that she has no sense of humour).

This is also a campaign with teeth. Tom Vilsack, a former governor of Iowa and close ally, told a cable news channel that the whole country would soon know as much about Rudy Giuliani's private life as New York knows already. Mr Clinton has also gone on record questioning whether Mr Obama has enough experience for the presidency, particularly in an age of terrorism. Mr Clinton had about as much experience in 1988, when he considered running but thought better of it.

Countering the negatives

Mrs Clinton still has strikingly high negatives: the latest Pew poll shows that 39% have an unfavourable view of her candidacy. But Mr Bush has proved that you can still win a presidential election while lots of people hate you. And Mrs Clinton is doing a goodish job of dealing with those “negatives”—certainly good enough to pick up many disillusioned Republicans and restive independents.

Her biggest potential negative is her sex. Americans are highly sensitive to the fact that the president is also the commander-in-chief—and Mrs Clinton is a graduate of a White House that had notoriously bad relations with the military world. Men are also much less well-disposed to Mrs Clinton than women: 45% of men have a negative opinion of her and only 36% have a positive opinion. The figures for women are 31% negative to 45% positive. If George Bush senior reminded women of their first husband, Mrs Clinton reminds men of their first wife.

Yet Candidate Clinton is not running as a feminist. She made a point of serving on the Armed Services Committee in the Senate. She is by far the most hawkish of the current Democratic candidates. She repeatedly emphasises that she is not running as a female candidate. Most Americans are happy with the idea of a female president (if not with this particular female). And the presidential field is full of people who are “different” in some way, from John McCain, the oldest man to run for president, to Rudy Giuliani, the most divorced man to run for president, to Mitt Romney, who is a Mormon, to Dennis Kucinich, who is, well, Dennis Kucinich.

Mrs Clinton's second-biggest negative is that very executive ability. Her biggest experience of running something, rather than bending her husband's ear or voting in the Senate, proved a disaster. What she advertised as the most ambitious domestic reform since FDR—her health-care plan—collapsed in ruins in 1994.

But again she has moved smartly to deal with the problem. Her latest health-care plan is much more modest than her last, and it puts a heavy emphasis on choice rather than bureaucratic reorganisation. Given the level of worry in America about health care, among businesses as well as consumers, the Republicans will have to do more to discredit it than just resurrect taunts about “Nanny Hillary”.

Mrs Clinton now exudes an overwhelming air of competence. Mr Bush is widely regarded as one of the most incompetent presidents in American history—a man who rushed blind into Baghdad, who filled his administration with lacklustre cronies, who bungled the handling of Hurricane Katrina and who famously claimed that he could not think of a single mistake he had made. Mrs Clinton is the anti-Bush: a woman who speaks in clear sentences, who has a formidable command of the facts, and who, on health care, is willing to learn from her mistakes.

The trouble with dynasties

What does the possibility of a Clinton restoration mean for America? Everything depends on whether Mrs Clinton can translate her air of competence into reality. The Clinton White House, be it remembered, lurched from crisis to crisis, some of them of Mrs Clinton's creation. It is also worth remembering that Mr Bush sold himself as an MBA president surrounded by political veterans. But three things are already clear—one positive and two negative.

The positive is that Mrs Clinton would break America's highest glass ceiling. Women have made their mark in almost every area of American life, from the Senate (16 currently) to the House (74, including the speaker) to the governor's office (nine). Madeleine Albright and Condoleezza Rice have both been secretary of state. In that respect, a woman president would undoubtedly be a good thing for the country.

But there is a downside: dynasty. If Mrs Clinton wins the White House in 2008, members of the Bush and Clinton families will have been president for 24 years on the trot. Over 100m Americans have never known anybody but a Bush or a Clinton in the White House. If Mrs Clinton wins re-election, that 24 years will swell to 28.

Americans are remarkably insouciant about this development. They should not be. It suggests that American political life is in the hands of a small group of insiders who are organised around semi-royal families. And it divides America into “players”, who control political life, and “observers”, who simply comment on it. The dynastification of American politics is happening at a time when economic inequalities are growing, and the “haves” are proving increasingly successful at transmitting their privileges to their children.

The other negative side is that it freezes American political life. One of the virtues of the American political system is that it is supposed to produce shake-ups whenever a new president takes over. Mrs Clinton will bring back the same cast of characters that everybody wearied of in the 1990s, from slick money-raisers like Terry McAuliffe to professional conservative-haters like Sidney Blumenthal.

Back in 1993 Jacob Weisberg, writing in the New Republic, accused the Clinton team of “Clincest”—being a “tight, hermetic and incestuous clique” who went to the same universities and hung out at the same Democratic gabfests. Mrs Clinton's election will not only perpetuate “Clincest” for another four or eight years; it will also add another dollop of ageing baby-boomer self-satisfaction. During a campaign speech earlier this year Mr Clinton remarked that he once told Hillary, when they were both students at Yale, that “I have met all the most gifted people in our generation and you're the best.” This sort of attitude will be difficult to live with.

The Clintonites have already brought back some of their old bad habits. Mrs Clinton had to return $850,000 from a fund-raiser called Norman Hsu who turned out to be a fugitive. But even more dispiriting will be the continuing polarisation of American politics. Mrs Clinton may have damped down Hillary-hatred for a while. But it is sure to revive if she starts appointing Supreme Court justices. And Mrs Clinton is still surrounded by the same fanatically loyal and combative staff that she had in the 1990s. America will be stuck not just in the same tired culture war, but also in the same culture war fought by the same characters. The potential for further alienation from politics, particularly after the Bush years, will be huge.

Mrs Clinton is clearly a formidable candidate for the presidency. She has the most powerful name in the business now that the Bush brand is tarnished. She has a smoothly working political machine. She has a wealth of experience in both the legislative and the executive branch. And she exudes competence. All told, she looks likely to translate this into both the Democratic nomination and a victory in November 2008. But whether a Clinton restoration will be good for America is a much more difficult question.
 
Back in 1993 Jacob Weisberg, writing in the New Republic, accused the Clinton team of “Clincest”—being a “tight, hermetic and incestuous clique” who went to the same universities and hung out at the same Democratic gabfests. Mrs Clinton's election will not only perpetuate “Clincest” for another four or eight years; it will also add another dollop of ageing baby-boomer self-satisfaction.

:lol good stuff
 
Rant: I swear the Economist puts too much of thier own opinion into peices.They again draw IMO very far reachin conclusions. The magazine itself brings certain issues to light but thier thoughts appear to be too far fetched.

Commentary on the article:

As an international observer of sorts it appears to me that Hilary is going to win as she is the only candidate I hear about with any regularity. I know a piss poor measure of who is going to win the US presidential race but I have done no research. But the only other presidential candidate I have heard of is Obama and that is to a much lesser extent.

ps Are they candidates or nominees at this stage ?
 
colinisation said:
ps Are they candidates or nominees at this stage ?

the latter. You're pretty much spot on as there's no one of any real consequence in the republican party and Obama is the only real Hillary competitor

But we'll see where things are after the primaries, could be completely different than the way things look now
 

Eric P

Member
colinisation said:
Rant: I swear the Economist puts too much of thier own opinion into peices.They again draw IMO very far reachin conclusions. The magazine itself brings certain issues to light but thier thoughts appear to be too far fetched.

Commentary on the article:

As an international observer of sorts it appears to me that Hilary is going to win as she is the only candidate I hear about with any regularity. I know a piss poor measure of who is going to win the US presidential race but I have done no research. But the only other presidential candidate I have heard of is Obama and that is to a much lesser extent.

ps Are they candidates or nominees at this stage ?

to be fair this is from the "leader" section which is usually editorials rather than hard news.
 
I suppose this thread hasn't gotten any replies because the thread title wasn't:

Ecomonmist: Clinton Presidency Would Be Bad For America

Anyway, good read.
 

Eric P

Member
Ignatz Mouse said:
I suppose this thread hasn't gotten any replies because the thread title wasn't:

Ecomonmist: Clinton Presidency Would Be Bad For America

Anyway, good read.

someday i'll learn.
 
I completely agree with the dynasty complaint. I am TIRED of Bush/Clinton. I thought Bill Clinton was a good president, and if Hilary wanted to be pres all along then I feel bad for her that Bill and 2 Bushes got elected. However, I simply cannot vote for her. If she is the nominee then I will write in or go 3rd party.
 

Juice

Member
Great read. I for one am 100% opposed to green-lighting 24-28 years of power for two immediate families. The first time Hillary's administration drops the ball, the world is going to condemn us as if we were a bunch of peasants led be Charleton inbreds.

I still have yet to hear a single real life person praise Hillary, and I'm surrounded by Ohio liberals. Supporters of Obama are certainly more vocal. And this is definitely the election where pollsters never record a single accurate metric about mobile-toting 20-somethings.
 
I don't have a huge problem with Hillary, but she's not my favorite candidate. I don't really know where she stands or what she'll do, although I liked Bill in office. Hillary's been such a by-the-numbers politico that I'm not sure what ball she'll run with once she's in office.
 

Cheebs

Member
Juice said:
And this is definitely the election where pollsters never record a single accurate metric about mobile-toting 20-somethings.

20-somethings don't ever vote though. 50+ year olds decide our elections. And the 50+ crowd of democrats are Hillary lovers.
 

Juice

Member
Cheebs said:
20-somethings don't ever vote though. 50+ year olds decide our elections. And the 50+ crowd of democrats are Hillary lovers.

One advocate of UHC quoted a constituent of hers on Bill Mahr aling the lines of, "i dont want the gubbament meddling with my Medicare!"

/cry
 

human5892

Queen of Denmark
Ignatz Mouse said:
I don't have a huge problem with Hillary, but she's not my favorite candidate. I don't really know where she stands or what she'll do, although I liked Bill in office. Hillary's been such a by-the-numbers politico that I'm not sure what ball she'll run with once she's in office.
That's my exact feeling on her; I find it difficult to flat-out disagree with much of what she says, but I have no idea how that will translate into actual actions in the White House. Them's the breaks with career politicians, I suppose.

I'm also uncomfortable with the dynasty aspect of a Hilary election. The Economist is spot-on in evaluating why we have elections when we do and the current furthering of the have/have nots in America.
 
human5892 said:
That's my exact feeling on her; I find it difficult to flat-out disagree with much of what she says, but I have no idea how that will translate into actual actions in the White House. Them's the breaks with career politicians, I suppose.

I'm also uncomfortable with the dynasty aspect of a Hilary election. The Economist is spot-on in evaluating why we have elections when we do and the current furthering of the have/have nots in America.

The Economist is usually spot-on in nearly everything. Finest news magazine there is.
 

Gozan

Member
I think you should elect Hillary, if only to piss off the French that you got a woman president before they did!
 

Pellham

Banned
Juice said:
Great read. I for one am 100% opposed to green-lighting 24-28 years of power for two immediate families. The first time Hillary's administration drops the ball, the world is going to condemn us as if we were a bunch of peasants led be Charleton inbreds.

I still have yet to hear a single real life person praise Hillary, and I'm surrounded by Ohio liberals. Supporters of Obama are certainly more vocal. And this is definitely the election where pollsters never record a single accurate metric about mobile-toting 20-somethings.

1) We haven't had a good president in decades, why would anything change if Clinton got elected?

2) Do you seriously believe that the world will continue to hate us/hate us even more after replacing Bush? At this point, anyone else taking over should result in general world opinion becoming more positive.
 
Gozan said:
I think you should elect Hillary, if only to piss off the French that you got a woman president before they did!

While maybe Obama isn't completely black, Hillary is less of a woman and more of a programmed automaton, so ya lose either way on the diversity thing.
 

Allen

Member
Eric P said:
to be fair this is from the "leader" section which is usually editorials rather than hard news.

An to be even more fair the Economist has always viewed itself as a weekly of commentary not news.
 

Cheebs

Member
Pellham said:
1) We haven't had a good president in decades, why would anything change if Clinton got elected?
The majority of America think Bill Clinton was a good president so...uh "decades"?

Thats your opinion, most Americans think we have had a good one 7 years ago.
 

Xapati

Member
Ignatz Mouse said:
I suppose this thread hasn't gotten any replies because the thread title wasn't:

Ecomonmist: Clinton Presidency Would Be Bad For America

Anyway, good read.

Actually, it lacks bolding.
 

Eric P

Member
Xapati said:
Actually, it lacks bolding.

if you bold, people only talk about the bolded parts, and the OP can thereby influence the conversation to go a particular way.

i'd rather not do that, but instead see what people take away from this as individuals
 
It doesn't need bolding becuase it's not something being boiled down to a sound bite.

Edit: I suppose for thread appeal, a response of "Which ecomonist on Hillary Clinton, and does Bill know?" might have been added.
 
Finally got around to reading this article.

The Clintonites have already brought back some of their old bad habits. Mrs Clinton had to return $850,000 from a fund-raiser called Norman Hsu who turned out to be a fugitive. But even more dispiriting will be the continuing polarisation of American politics. Mrs Clinton may have damped down Hillary-hatred for a while. But it is sure to revive if she starts appointing Supreme Court justices. And Mrs Clinton is still surrounded by the same fanatically loyal and combative staff that she had in the 1990s. America will be stuck not just in the same tired culture war, but also in the same culture war fought by the same characters. The potential for further alienation from politics, particularly after the Bush years, will be huge.

This is the thing that is most ironic about Hillary's current popularity. The same side who has bemoaned Bush's corruption for years has fallen hook, line, and sinker for the DEM version of Bush. They're two sides to the same coin.

In an election that should very well be a landslide, the DEMs are playing with fire. I'm not saying Hillary won't win against whoever the GOP nominee ends up being. However, I'm beginning to be a lot more skeptical of a massive victory for DEMs in congress. She could really hurt their chances of picking up what should be an easy 7-8 senate seats and 18-20 house seats.

And Rasmussen seems to think that whoever wins in 2008 will get shellacked by a fickle electorate in 2010 and 2012. While a Hillary presidency may be bad for conservatives in the short term, it could end up being the best thing in the long run.
 
My exact fear.

BTW, playing moral equivilency between Bush corruption and Clinton corruption is a losing strategy. Given sweatheart deals to a few people is not the same thing as starting a war to give no-bid contracts to political friends equating to billions of dollars is not the same thing.
 

Mandark

Small balls, big fun!
That's a decent article for Europeans who don't follow American politics and need an introduction, I suppose.

But if you're already online, the Economist is a second-rate source for US political news or analysis.
 

Macam

Banned
Thanks for bumping this, SD. I actually tossed the article into Yojiimbo when it was posted to read it and never got around to it. That said, while it raises some valid points, I have to question the severity of the negatives they bring up. After all, it may suggest politics is in the hands of a few insiders, but that doesn't mean it necessarily is, particularly in light of some of the changes in media since the first Bush stepped into office; arguably, the Internet is proving to be increasingly effective at reducing some of the clout that insiders have long had.

How you classify a "shake-up" is also pretty subjective. I don't know how much of a shake-up a Richardson and/or McCain presidency would yield comparatively. It's not really a problem unique to a potential Clinton presidency.

And while I hate to be Mr. Questions every time you post, can I ask once again, Mandark, what falls within your first-rate list of sources? While I don't dispute The Economist is sluggish on American news and analysis at times, I do find really do enjoy their insights since it generally comes from both a more impartial and foreign viewpoint, replete with some fantastic, more extensive writing. Political news isn't hard to find, but finding more impartial analysis is a bit more troublesome.
 

Javaman

Member
That'll be 32 years of the same two families running the government if she gets elected. Next up will be Chelsy and Jeb. Forget the term limits, just pass it around the family. Hip hip Hooray!
 

Macam

Banned
Javaman said:
That'll be 32 years of the same two families running the government if she gets elected. Next up will be Chelsy and Jeb. Forget the term limits, just pass it around the family. Hip hip Hooray!

No, it wouldn't. If you read the article, it actually gives you the correct amount of years.
 

Mandark

Small balls, big fun!
Macam: I finally got around to responding in the other thread.

The Economist isn't really an unbiased source of analysis. It's pretty strongly neoliberal, in the anti-regulation sense. That's not really the issue, so much as the shallow level of analysis, and sometimes what seems like an unfamiliarity with the topic.

See here, for example.
The Economist said:
But whatever the reason, [Warner’s] retreat has created a vacuum. He had positioned himself as the centrist alternative to Hillary Clinton, the early front-runner for the Democratic nomination and the darling of the party’s liberal activists. Southerners, Westerners and moderates are now shopping for a new candidate, perhaps Governor Bill Richardson of New Mexico or Governor Tom Vilsack of Iowa, Senator Evan Bayh of Indiana or former Senator John Edwards of North Carolina, the vice-presidential nominee in 2004.
I have my problems with the Stateside news media, but I don't think any of them would have let that slip. The Economist does what I understand to be good economic reporting, but they're not really experts in this field.

I think the best stuff for covering the candidates comes from long-form magazine pieces. Almost all of them will editorialize, or at least try to construct a narrative, but that's the best way to see what the overall campaign strategy is, who the influential advisers are, how certain interest groups or constituencies are behaving, etc.

All the usual disclaimers about reading sceptically, finding multiple sources, etc. still apply.
 

Javaman

Member
Macam said:
No, it wouldn't. If you read the article, it actually gives you the correct amount of years.

GB Senior=8 VP and 4 P
Clinton=8 P
GB Jr.=8 P
Clinton=4 (or 8) for a total of 32 to 36 years

siamesedreamer said:
January 1989 - January 2013 or 2017

24 or 28 years

Technically you're right, but as VP someone would still have some presidential pull. Even then, 24 years for strictly presidents is still pretty ridiculous.
 
Mandark said:
and sometimes what seems like an unfamiliarity with the topic.

Economist:
She will also be the first president who is married to a former president who was impeached for having oral sex with an intern in the Oval Office.

Ya think?
 

Macam

Banned
Mandark said:
Macam: I finally got around to responding in the other thread.

The Economist isn't really an unbiased source of analysis. It's pretty strongly neoliberal, in the anti-regulation sense. That's not really the issue, so much as the shallow level of analysis, and sometimes what seems like an unfamiliarity with the topic.

I think the best stuff for covering the candidates comes from long-form magazine pieces. Almost all of them will editorialize, or at least try to construct a narrative, but that's the best way to see what the overall campaign strategy is, who the influential advisers are, how certain interest groups or constituencies are behaving, etc.

Fair enough. The degree to which they support or protest regulation varies a bit, but since my own economic views tend to closely resemble many of theirs in many cases, I don't have many qualms with their stance. Their analysis varies certainly, but, in particular, some of their policy diagnoses are pretty insightful.

I suppose the crux of my question was whether there were any specific publications you'd single out. Online, I tend to stumble onto more political snippet aggregates and/or short, heavily-slanted pieces one way or the other. I was hoping the launch of Politico.com would fill in a gap, but I find it pretty disappointing. I'm not sure if any print publications are better offhand; I haven't really dabbled with print as much.

Mandark said:
Macam: I finally got around to responding in the other thread.

I'll have to hit that thread up just as soon as I finish reading Mrs. Clinton's piece. Much as I like Foreign Affairs, the material takes a bit to dig through (and when I used to read the print version regularly alongside Policy Review, I was pretty set for the month).
 

Mandark

Small balls, big fun!
The usual magazines (New Republic, Washington Monthly, National Review), and some non-politics ones like Esquire and the New Yorker. Even if they have an editorial slant, it's the best media for long-format pieces that get into the details of a campaign or movement.

It's more a matter of reading lots of sources, seeing where they point, and keeping enough perspective to sort out the wheat from the chaff yourself.
 
Juice said:
I still have yet to hear a single real life person praise Hillary, and I'm surrounded by Ohio liberals. Supporters of Obama are certainly more vocal. And this is definitely the election where pollsters never record a single accurate metric about mobile-toting 20-somethings.
Democrats never choose the nominee they really want, they choose the one they think will win. Republicans anoint who they want to win, and then make it so.

It's really annoying that the young could own politics if they just voted and made noise about it. Not having land lines to answer poll questions is the least of their obstacles.
 

Odrion

Banned
If the phrase "clincest" turns into this election's "flip flopper" I am going to blow my goddamn brains out with a jackhammer.
 
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