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[#Phonepunk#]

So I keep seeing this reactionary take, that the Fandom Menace (scary name, i know!!!) is some "alt right" group with evil designs, who is respsonsible for all the toxicity in Star Wars (cos that element never existed before 2017). The usual gatekeepers, people that think you HAVE to like all the films and you can't have any criticism of them or you are a racist bigot, have successfully painted this group in the mainstream eye as some horrible thing. But is it?



It's funny I kept hearing about them, mostly from SW stans who could not let other people have an opinion about their favorite space movie. So I dove in, and I started with maybe the famous "toxic" video of them all. "Why the Last Jedi Is a Complete Cinematic Failure". Did I find a bunch of scorn thrown at the idea of casting asian and black leads? Not at all. Did I find a 20 second section where he shows Poe purposefully framed by all women as he is shut down? Yes. Apparently pointing out that a filmmaker is trying to do feminism is itself sexist! Even if the filmmaker was a man! Vito made this video and ever since has been getting death threats from extremist stans. Despite the "scary" thumbnail it's actually a pretty light takedown of the film.



So I didn't find much there. I looked for the head honcho, Jeremy ("with another videoooo") from Geeks + Gamers, who is the main one pushing out content. This guy is one of the most active, he does daily videos, he reacts to articles and twitter, he pretty much covers every scrap of SW news. Is this toxic? I don't see how, since this is a thing done by hundreds of millions of other people every single day. Again, I found nothing much at all showing that Jeremy hates women. Maybe I am missing the secret decoder ring.



The funny thing is, these people don't really spread Right Wing or Alt Right views at all. They are just hyper concerned with SW. I often see claims that they called KMT "yellow bitch" and have yet to see it come up in any of these videos. In fact these people always say it isn't the actresses fault her character sucks.

So how about Doomcock? I mean with a name like that you know he has to be a WAMAN hating misogynist, right? Nope, just another super nerd extremely passionate about SW. He's pretty silly, he wears a makeshift super villain costume and has a stuffed Cthulu sidekick. Maybe his voice modulator is too scary for snowflakes or something.



There is also Mauler, a guy who put out a really nice longform takedown of The Last Jedi. Again, this is not a right wing troll. See my comments from before. I've watched dozens of his videos, and you are more likely to see racist/sexist trolling on any random ResetEra thread than in his videos.



So yeah, I dunno. These are a bunch of folks I've started watching, cos I wanted to hear actual criticism of the film, and not just beating the same old strawman "toxic fans" over and over again. The key to all these people is they are overwhelmingly concerned with the text itself. They are almost too geeky about it. They talk about the ST and the OT and the PT and the EU and comics and movies. None of their channels have "Hitler was right" videos. None of them do race science studies. Rarely do they ever go into politics at all.

So what do yall think? Personally I would have ignored all this stuff had butthurt fanboys left it alone. But no, they have to brand EVERYTHING that is not a glowing blowjob to the entire franchise as racist/sexist. The more and more I saw legit criticism (like Finn only ever there to scream "Rey!") handwaved away, the more I wished people actually had a chance to talk about this stuff. Luckily, they have! These are people actually talking about the films themselves! What a concept!

Reactionaries will point to the amount of content they upload as if that is some great sin, commenting on pop culture via Youtube. Again, this is something done by hundreds of millions of people a day. For me, this is the Streisand effect in action. The more this group was hyped up as this horrible evil, the more attention they got, and once I decided to finally check it out, I found them far from toxic.

 

[#Phonepunk#]

Vito, creator of the "Cinematic Failure" video, posted a public response on another board which will go unmentioned but you can guess what it was. When people are calling you a sexist bigot then why not try to defend yourself?

I created the video which the OP references and feel the need to set the record straight.

At no point during that video do I refer to Kelly Marie Tran as "the yellow bitch," nor anything close to it. This is a bizarre and blatant lie. In the video I specifically say that Tran seems like a fine actress, and I do not blame her for the script she was given.

Additionally, I am a life-long liberal who regularly advocates against racism, sexism and xenophobia in my work. A section of that same video also explains why I am pleased to see diversity in the casting, as previous movies were disproportionately Caucasian. To claim I'm representative of alt-right reactionaries is simply incorrect.

Trying to discern people's political leanings based on their enjoyment of a children's movie is foolish. I urge you to think more critically about politics before spreading these kinds of conspiracy theories in the future.

 

[MilkyJoe]

The fandom menace are nothing more sinister than a huge group of movie fans that refuse to entertain identity politics and a woke agendas, infiltrating and ruining their favourite franchises.

In other words they are normal people.

Speaking of which, Terminator is a huge bomb

https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2019/11/02/box-office-james-cameron-and-tim-millers-terminator-dark-fate-starring-linda-hamilton-and-arnold-schwarzenegger-bombs-with-apocalyptic-11-million-friday/#74e45e6b5a3e

 

[Sterling88]

It'd probably be even better if they were a little harder and more right wing to be honest. Disney don't deserve any sympathy, their SJW antics are all a ploy to exploit the snowflake market and make money. It's hilarious that fans of the new movies can't see that. They'll throw cash at anything if it fits their agenda.

 

[Harlock]

An elegant nterview from a more civilized age, before the dark times, before the wokeness.

 

[#Phonepunk#]

It’s amazing that people actually think if you call Rey a Mary Sue that makes you alt right. Like no that just makes u a normal person with a pretty widespread opinion

 

[GAMETA]

Who?

 

[#Phonepunk#]

this is a pretty funny video of Vito trying to explain himself after his "Cinematic Failure" video blew up. it's not about Captain Marvel, it's about news media pushing this agenda. why is Captain Marvel in the thumbnail? well apparently if you have a comic book or star wars guy in your thumbnail, more people will watch your video! no shit! that's what happens when a single company has near total hegemony over pop culture. that's what gets views. don't blame him for playing the algorithm game, we are all playing.

in it mostly he is stunned that a longstanding British newspaper mentioned him in one of their articles. a newspaper started in 1885 mentioned him because he made a video about a space movie. of course they just used him and misrepresented his work to push the same old bullshit agenda. but he finds it funny nonetheless.

 

[MilkyJoe]

It'd probably be even better if they were a little harder and more right wing to be honest. Disney don't deserve any sympathy, their SJW antics are all a ploy to exploit the snowflake market and make money. It's hilarious that fans of the new movies can't see that. They'll throw cash at anything if it fits their agenda.

The best bit is the woke generation don't have the spending power, or the inclination, to support the SJW agenda business model. Hence all the box office bombs

 

[oagboghi2]

Calling something right wing is just an excuse to not have to embrace any idea with critical thought.

Just shut up and buy our Star Wars and marvel movies you fucking nazi

 

[dan76]

We are living in a time of extremes. Everything is pushed to the opposite, rather than people just having a different opinion and being able to discuss it like adults. That's the problem, no one "grows up". Calling someone a racist because they didn't lie TLJ is something that might happen at school when you're 12 and don't really understand what the hell youre talking about. Certain words seem to trigger the left ignoring any kind of context. And context is everything.

I've watched a few of those Geeks and Gamers videos and I don't see anything offensive in them, but I don't really agree with the fandom menace either. They all seem to love the prequels... how did that happen, they're crap as well! Also, I don't agree with Ben Shapiro on most things, but his review of the Disney Star Wars films are pretty good. Again there is nothing at all offensive in any of them. They're just passionate nerds.

 

[#Phonepunk#]

I've watched a few of those Geeks and Gamers videos and I don't see anything offensive in them, but I don't really agree with the fandom menace either. They all seem to love the prequels... how did that happen, they're crap as well! Also, I don't agree with Ben Shapiro on most things, but his review of the Disney Star Wars films are pretty good. Again there is nothing at all offensive in any of them. They're just passionate nerds.

that's good! you don't agree with them on somethings, yet you are not a raving lunatic about it. you can respect other people's opinions. that is healthy. personally i love the PT and I also loved the RLM reviews trashing the movies. i can respect people that think otherwise. i'm not going to attack your identity because you don't like the same movies I do.

that is really the only healthy way to engage in these movies. think what you want, just don't force it on people.

 

[#Phonepunk#]

Fuck the fandom menace/right wing reactionary fandom bullshit that plagues Youtube and infests movie discussion

So you're a liberal who -uses the same jokes as alt-righters and centrists -specifically uses the same imagery as alt-righters and centrists -specifically contributes to and profits off of alt-righters and centrists -has a youtube channel that contributes to the radicalization of young people...

www.resetera.com

well LOL Vito has been banned from Era. Cheebo, Crossing Eden, Surfinn, and jack_package_200, ALL IDENTIFIED AS MALE, have gotten another man banned for doing feminism wrong. he dared use the word "bitch", which is something they were just openly celebrating on that site like a week ago. oh, I forgot about Lifejumper as well, who also is a male. so ~5 ideological extremist males deplatforming someone over wrongthink.

but of course THEY aren't the toxic ones

 

[Kadayi]

It’s amazing that people actually think if you call Rey a Mary Sue that makes you alt right. Like no that just makes u a normal person with a pretty widespread opinion

Did you not get the memo? Anyone who disagrees with Rian Johnson is Alt-Right this is not an opinion, it's a scientific fact. Are you arguing against science? What's with you? Stop halp!!! Mods, this shitlord is oppressing me with his science hatred !!

 

[buizel]

It’s amazing that people actually think if you call Rey a Mary Sue that makes you alt right. Like no that just makes u a normal person with a pretty widespread opinion

Yeah I mean it's an established trope ,so it's just a comment on the writing of her character. That's all.

 

[TrainedRage]

If I could tell you how little I care about "fandoms" and the "opinions" they have; I wouldn't post anything.

 

[strange headache]

There is also Mauler, a guy who put out a really nice longform takedown of The Last Jedi.

I can't speak for all of the Fandom Menace and I'm not even part of it, but I've watched Mauler's critiques since before he became popular with his Star Wars critique. He mostly reviewed horror games like Soma and did some other stuff like taking apart HBomberguy's videos. I've never seen anything in his videos that would suggest that he's alt-right. Never seen him say anything racist or homophobic or misogynistic in his videos either.

I like his videos because Mauler goes rather in depth as some of his movie critiques are longer than the movies themselves. His content might no be to everyone's liking, but he's certainly not an evil dude. Heck, most of his videos don't even delve into politics, except when he's taking apart some of the more heavy-handed political messaging of the things he's reviewing.

My guess is that this is just another lazy attempt at smearing these people and trying to silence them by harming their reputation. There's also Nerdrotic who I liked to watch for taking apart the dumpster-fire that Star Trek Discovery and Doctor Who have become.

Most of these people are just hardcore fans who are upset about their favourite franchises being absolutely ruined.

 

[#Phonepunk#]

Yeah Mauler is good. I’m not saying I agree with every word out of his mouth but he puts a lot of thought and effort into his stuff. His videos are great. In fact the positive thing about all the reactionaries “calling out” him and others is that I discovered a bunch of movie critics I would have otherwise not heard of.

Shadiversity is another good youtuber unfairly branded as alt right. He made the sin of criticizing the messy throne room combat in TLJ. Yet he’s not just a random guy giving an uninformed opinion. He is a LARPer and medieval combat specialist. Does tons of videos on historical weapon usage and techniques. But he is critical of the ST so BAN THE NAZI

 

[Kadayi]

#Phonepunk#

Ultimately the new SW movie is coming out next month and so naturally Disney is on the offensive to fight back against the negative talk that followed TLJ which almost certainly had an effect on Solos Box Office with a lot of Star Wars fans just saying enough is enough. It's the dual tactics of 'The Cinematic must-see conclusion of the epic Skywalker Saga (brought to you by the same guy who just remixed a new hope with a dash of woke)' coupled with 'anyone who says TFA or TLJ weren't the best thing since sliced Ewok are clearly fucking Nazis and should be cancelled' I fully expect to see a few channels get pulled by Youtube in the foreseeable truth be told.

 

[MilkyJoe]

Fuck the fandom menace/right wing reactionary fandom bullshit that plagues Youtube and infests movie discussion

So you're a liberal who -uses the same jokes as alt-righters and centrists -specifically uses the same imagery as alt-righters and centrists -specifically contributes to and profits off of alt-righters and centrists -has a youtube channel that contributes to the radicalization of young people...

www.resetera.com

well LOL Vito has been banned from Era. Cheebo, Crossing Eden, Surfinn, and jack_package_200, ALL IDENTIFIED AS MALE, have gotten another man banned for doing feminism wrong. he dared use the word "bitch", which is something they were just openly celebrating on that site like a week ago. oh, I forgot about Lifejumper as well, who also is a male. so ~5 ideological extremist males deplatforming someone over wrongthink.

but of course THEY aren't the toxic ones

Place is full of cunts

 

[#Phonepunk#]

it will get worse and worse the closer we get to IX. funny thing is, the mainstream media is already turning. you can openly say TLJ was divisive, and the directors turnaround is being taken as evidence that perhaps the franchise isn't in the greatest of hands. even a giant publication like Variety is now saying the same things the Fandom Menace have said for years.

 

[Sterling88]

#Phonepunk#

Ultimately the new SW movie is coming out next month and so naturally Disney is on the offensive to fight back against the negative talk that followed TLJ which almost certainly had an effect on Solos Box Office with a lot of Star Wars fans just saying enough is enough. It's the dual tactics of 'The Cinematic must-see conclusion of the epic Skywalker Saga (brought to you by the same guy who just remixed a new hope with a dash of woke)' coupled with 'anyone who says TFA or TLJ weren't the best thing since sliced Ewok are clearly fucking Nazis and should be cancelled' I fully expect to see a few channels get pulled by Youtube in the foreseeable truth be told.

While TLJ was trash, I think the main reason Solo did poorly is because nobody wanted a Han Solo movie without Ford. Even before TLJ nobody cared, I think it was always going to bomb regardless.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

I honestly don't see how anyone could ever conflate WorldClassBullshitters, or G+G, or Doomcock, Mauler etc. with Stephen Molyneux, Richard Spencer or that ilk. If I saw actual far-right extremists/alt-right garbage being pushed by the former like it is from the latter, I'd know it. And skip it just as do with the far-left extremists/SJW trash out there, too.

Most of the Fandom Menace are just SW fans who hate how shitty the new Disney movies have become (especially TLJ), and dislike the antagonism the media took out on fans bringing up legitimate criticisms by labeling them 'ists' and bigots (with zero proof). That's all. But I wouldn't expect Reeeeset to have the capacity in distinguishing from the two. In their eyes you either agree with them, or you're the spawn of Satan.

 

[strange headache]

Shadiversity is another good youtuber unfairly branded as alt right.

Say what?!
Shadiversity is not alt-right too? I've been watching his medieval videos since way before TLJ was even a thing. His content isn't even political at all!

This is ridiculous.

By the way, It's really funny how the REEtards are arguing pages over pages about whether Vito is a true leftie or not. Being left wing and espousing socialist ideas does not mean you're onboard with crazy identity politics and intersectionalism. He was literally banned from that forum for not having a pure enough ideology, that's insane.

 

[#Phonepunk#]

Now they are unironically saying he is shutting himself into an echo chamber and doing gatekeeping.

After banning a person engaged in a good faith discussion.

It’s a self parody at this point. The most toxic fans are these nut jobs. Zero self awareness.

 

[GV82]

Just as cringey the other week back Freddy prince jnr was white knighting against these so called fandom menace groups fucking hell

 

[888]

His video title is click bait but he makes some good points.



Generally I like Josh. He is a bit like boogie trying to appease and make sure everyone gets along. He is trying to make a neutral group that allows criticism but he is going to get a lot of backlash from the Pro New Trilogy if there is any criticism.

Star Wars should be something special but it isn’t anymore and that starts with Disney and Lucasfilm. It doesn’t help that they attack fans and push their agendas which sets a precedent for all of this division. TLJ really was a poor movie no matter how you fall on the topic. But it’s most ardent defenders will double down just to piss off the “alt right”. Almost feels like real world politics are what’s driving this Star Wars civil war.

 

[sol_bad]

LMMFAO
For someone that hates Star Wars, Phonepunk certainly spends a lot of time obsessing over it. Poor guy.

 

[PanzerAzel]

Just read this shit if you can tolerate it without vomiting. This is incredible. From this recent ERA thread, an entertaining read:

https://www.resetera.com/threads/fu...-youtube-and-infests-movie-discussion.150742/

kay, @VitoGesualdi, I want to address your points fairly because you've insisted that you're here in good faith and want to have a legitimate conversation and I'm going to take you at your word.

You seem to genuinely consider yourself a "liberal" (a liberal is a center-left person who supports capitalism and retaining existing power structures, which you don't appear to be; you'd probably be more accurately described as a leftist) so I want to address your confusion as to why people keep describing you as a right-wing reactionary. Modern progressivism is largely based around deconstructing multiple different power structures: not just capitalism, but also patriarchy, institutional racism, and other forms of deeply systemic bigotry against marginalized groups. This "intersectional" approach to solving problems is, more or less, the backbone of the modern progressive movement.

Traditional leftism, on the other hand, is largely concerned only with capitalism and not intersectionality. Traditional leftism believes that socialism and the destruction of capitalism will result in the eventual destruction of all other forms of systemic bigotry without needing to take any further action.

As a typical example, if we look at two women, one white and one black, who are both low-income, the two leftist groups would propose different solutions for how to solve the systemic problems they face. The traditional leftist would argue that simply erasing capitalism will solve the problem. The intersectional leftist will agree that we need to dismantle capitalism, but that women face special discrimination that is unrelated to income that also needs to be addressed, and that the black woman in particular suffers even more forms of unique discrimination in every facet of society, and that simply passing economic justice reforms will not solve these problems.

In recent years, as the glaring faultlines in capitalism have become more apparent, many ideas associated with traditional leftism have become more popular with those on the right, such as white people living in rural or post-industrial areas (often mocked with the "economic anxiety" phrasing) who went for Donald Trump in huge numbers in 2016. These individuals support various aspects of traditional leftism, such as living wages, universal basic income, universal healthcare, and maybe even the complete dismantling of capitalism itself, but they somehow ended up voting for Donald Trump. This is because they (falsely) viewed Trump as a disruptor who would somehow shake up the system, economically speaking. It was very clear to them that Trump had no intention of addressing systemic racism, sexism, or homophobia, but they didn't care. Economic justice was their only concern, and the capitalist Hillary Clinton was obviously not going to solve that problem, so Trump was the next best choice.

Candidates like Andrew Yang and (to some extent, mostly pre-2018) Bernie Sanders follow this traditional leftist mold very closely. They are very concerned with economic justice, but largely unconcerned with other forms of systemic discrimination beyond occasional platitudes about fair policing or fair housing. These issues are important, but they all play back into the economic argument, that socialism is a magic cure-all for bigotry. Capitalism is on its way out; this much is obvious. It is not sustainable and it will be dead in the future. Therefore, the future political division in this country isn't between "capitalists" and "lite capitalists" or even between "capitalists" and "socialists," but rather between these two different factions of leftists. The intersectional leftists have become the new left wing, and the traditional leftists have begun allying with their new right-wing allies in pursuit of shared economic goals.

You may describe yourself as a liberal, or a leftist. You can vote for Andrew Yang. You can use whatever terminology to self-identify that you want, but at the end of the day your political goals are very clearly much more closely-aligned with the right than the modern left. It's said that you can know a lot about a person's politics by the issues they consider important, and your content and online presence make it very clear what you consider important. Random, cherrypicked tweets or forum posts about killing white people or "down with cis;" movies that have "forced diversity" or "political correctness;" online forms of redressing institutional grievance like "cancel culture;" and people who say mean or insulting things about men or other traditional status quo structures like the patriarchy. Your content is very clearly aimed at a reactionary right-wing audience and their new traditional leftist allies, because nobody on the actual left supports or believes any of these things anymore. Everyone who did is on the right now, even if they don't fully self-identify that way yet. There are various things about the modern left that bother me too, but I consider them inconsequential and irrelevant compared to the global threat of right-wing authoritarianism, and therefore don't bother wasting my time discussing them or forming alliances with my enemies to destroy them.

Probably the flashpoint that most constantly flares tensions between these two groups, and the content around which people like yourself have made their living, is the idea that media has an effect on our political outlook and views. Right-wing reactionaries and traditional leftists believe that it doesn't. Modern intersectional leftism believes that it does. When a movie like TLJ or Captain Marvel features diversity, people such as yourself argue that this diversity is meaningless because true progressive art cannot exist under a capitalist system. This is true only in an economic sense, but modern leftist theory (and a growing body of research) holds that these diverse representations boost self-esteem and confidence among marginalized groups and contribute to more positive views of marginalized people among the majority. It is almost inarguable that diverse media representation does, in fact, play a key role in helping to degrade systemic power structures.

People like you view yourself as gatekeepers for what does and does not count as proper diversity and representation, and you get angry when it is suggested that, as a white man, your opinion is not relevant on this issue. As I said before, I sometimes take issue with various aspects of modern leftism too, but I don't bother discussing it because I don't consider it as important as the "real issues." I know who my enemy is, and it's not "pink-haired women screaming about killing men." If you consider something like this to be a serious threat to society, rather than a humorous nuisance, you are not a progressive leftist, you are a right-wing reactionary.

I see that you ended up getting banned while I was typing this and therefore you probably can't read it. Hopefully you took enough screenshots of these conversations to get yourself another Youtube video. When you make that video and post it, describing how you've been made a victim of leftist authoritarianism, consider what your audience is and why they're agreeing with you. They're not agreeing with you because they're leftists looking to reform the system from within. They're agreeing with you because they are extremely bigoted right-wing reactionaries, and they're trying to get you on their side. And if you aren't already, you will be soon, unless you take a step back and examine your audience and the things that you think are serious issues in the world today.

These twats are beyond mentally ill.

 

[Hecaton117]

Vito, creator of the "Cinematic Failure" video, posted a public response on another board which will go unmentioned but you can guess what it was. When people are calling you a sexist bigot then why not try to defend yourself?

It took me a while to figure out what "another board which will go unmentioned" meant but I'm glad I did since that's the funniest thing I've seen all week.

I haven't seen any of this Vito guy's videos, but watching Cheebo trying to take shots at him, only for Vito to calmly explain his reasoning and provide context that disarms Cheebo only for him to immediately scramble for another smear only for Vito to repeat the process is something else.

Threads like that only reinforce the notion that words like "nazi" and "alt-right" have been completely stripped of meaning due to their horrid misuse by people who only care about smearing their opponents to the extent that questioning them carries huge social risks.

 

[Tesseract]

Just read this shit if you can tolerate it without vomiting. This is incredible. From this recent ERA thread, an entertaining read:

https://www.resetera.com/threads/fu...-youtube-and-infests-movie-discussion.150742/

kay, @VitoGesualdi, I want to address your points fairly because you've insisted that you're here in good faith and want to have a legitimate conversation and I'm going to take you at your word.

You seem to genuinely consider yourself a "liberal" (a liberal is a center-left person who supports capitalism and retaining existing power structures, which you don't appear to be; you'd probably be more accurately described as a leftist) so I want to address your confusion as to why people keep describing you as a right-wing reactionary. Modern progressivism is largely based around deconstructing multiple different power structures: not just capitalism, but also patriarchy, institutional racism, and other forms of deeply systemic bigotry against marginalized groups. This "intersectional" approach to solving problems is, more or less, the backbone of the modern progressive movement.

Traditional leftism, on the other hand, is largely concerned only with capitalism and not intersectionality. Traditional leftism believes that socialism and the destruction of capitalism will result in the eventual destruction of all other forms of systemic bigotry without needing to take any further action.

As a typical example, if we look at two women, one white and one black, who are both low-income, the two leftist groups would propose different solutions for how to solve the systemic problems they face. The traditional leftist would argue that simply erasing capitalism will solve the problem. The intersectional leftist will agree that we need to dismantle capitalism, but that women face special discrimination that is unrelated to income that also needs to be addressed, and that the black woman in particular suffers even more forms of unique discrimination in every facet of society, and that simply passing economic justice reforms will not solve these problems.

In recent years, as the glaring faultlines in capitalism have become more apparent, many ideas associated with traditional leftism have become more popular with those on the right, such as white people living in rural or post-industrial areas (often mocked with the "economic anxiety" phrasing) who went for Donald Trump in huge numbers in 2016. These individuals support various aspects of traditional leftism, such as living wages, universal basic income, universal healthcare, and maybe even the complete dismantling of capitalism itself, but they somehow ended up voting for Donald Trump. This is because they (falsely) viewed Trump as a disruptor who would somehow shake up the system, economically speaking. It was very clear to them that Trump had no intention of addressing systemic racism, sexism, or homophobia, but they didn't care. Economic justice was their only concern, and the capitalist Hillary Clinton was obviously not going to solve that problem, so Trump was the next best choice.

Candidates like Andrew Yang and (to some extent, mostly pre-2018) Bernie Sanders follow this traditional leftist mold very closely. They are very concerned with economic justice, but largely unconcerned with other forms of systemic discrimination beyond occasional platitudes about fair policing or fair housing. These issues are important, but they all play back into the economic argument, that socialism is a magic cure-all for bigotry. Capitalism is on its way out; this much is obvious. It is not sustainable and it will be dead in the future. Therefore, the future political division in this country isn't between "capitalists" and "lite capitalists" or even between "capitalists" and "socialists," but rather between these two different factions of leftists. The intersectional leftists have become the new left wing, and the traditional leftists have begun allying with their new right-wing allies in pursuit of shared economic goals.

You may describe yourself as a liberal, or a leftist. You can vote for Andrew Yang. You can use whatever terminology to self-identify that you want, but at the end of the day your political goals are very clearly much more closely-aligned with the right than the modern left. It's said that you can know a lot about a person's politics by the issues they consider important, and your content and online presence make it very clear what you consider important. Random, cherrypicked tweets or forum posts about killing white people or "down with cis;" movies that have "forced diversity" or "political correctness;" online forms of redressing institutional grievance like "cancel culture;" and people who say mean or insulting things about men or other traditional status quo structures like the patriarchy. Your content is very clearly aimed at a reactionary right-wing audience and their new traditional leftist allies, because nobody on the actual left supports or believes any of these things anymore. Everyone who did is on the right now, even if they don't fully self-identify that way yet. There are various things about the modern left that bother me too, but I consider them inconsequential and irrelevant compared to the global threat of right-wing authoritarianism, and therefore don't bother wasting my time discussing them or forming alliances with my enemies to destroy them.

Probably the flashpoint that most constantly flares tensions between these two groups, and the content around which people like yourself have made their living, is the idea that media has an effect on our political outlook and views. Right-wing reactionaries and traditional leftists believe that it doesn't. Modern intersectional leftism believes that it does. When a movie like TLJ or Captain Marvel features diversity, people such as yourself argue that this diversity is meaningless because true progressive art cannot exist under a capitalist system. This is true only in an economic sense, but modern leftist theory (and a growing body of research) holds that these diverse representations boost self-esteem and confidence among marginalized groups and contribute to more positive views of marginalized people among the majority. It is almost inarguable that diverse media representation does, in fact, play a key role in helping to degrade systemic power structures.

People like you view yourself as gatekeepers for what does and does not count as proper diversity and representation, and you get angry when it is suggested that, as a white man, your opinion is not relevant on this issue. As I said before, I sometimes take issue with various aspects of modern leftism too, but I don't bother discussing it because I don't consider it as important as the "real issues." I know who my enemy is, and it's not "pink-haired women screaming about killing men." If you consider something like this to be a serious threat to society, rather than a humorous nuisance, you are not a progressive leftist, you are a right-wing reactionary.

I see that you ended up getting banned while I was typing this and therefore you probably can't read it. Hopefully you took enough screenshots of these conversations to get yourself another Youtube video. When you make that video and post it, describing how you've been made a victim of leftist authoritarianism, consider what your audience is and why they're agreeing with you. They're not agreeing with you because they're leftists looking to reform the system from within. They're agreeing with you because they are extremely bigoted right-wing reactionaries, and they're trying to get you on their side. And if you aren't already, you will be soon, unless you take a step back and examine your audience and the things that you think are serious issues in the world today.

These twats are beyond mentally ill.

 

[MisterHero]

If you have any critical thinking capacity at all, you'll be able to seperate genuine criticisms from the bigotry.

The sequel defenders consistently use the latter to handwave the former.

They are unwilling and unable.

 

[#Phonepunk#]

Just read this shit if you can tolerate it without vomiting. This is incredible. From this recent ERA thread, an entertaining read:

https://www.resetera.com/threads/fu...-youtube-and-infests-movie-discussion.150742/

kay, @VitoGesualdi, I want to address your points fairly because you've insisted that you're here in good faith and want to have a legitimate conversation and I'm going to take you at your word.

You seem to genuinely consider yourself a "liberal" (a liberal is a center-left person who supports capitalism and retaining existing power structures, which you don't appear to be; you'd probably be more accurately described as a leftist) so I want to address your confusion as to why people keep describing you as a right-wing reactionary. Modern progressivism is largely based around deconstructing multiple different power structures: not just capitalism, but also patriarchy, institutional racism, and other forms of deeply systemic bigotry against marginalized groups. This "intersectional" approach to solving problems is, more or less, the backbone of the modern progressive movement.

Traditional leftism, on the other hand, is largely concerned only with capitalism and not intersectionality. Traditional leftism believes that socialism and the destruction of capitalism will result in the eventual destruction of all other forms of systemic bigotry without needing to take any further action.

As a typical example, if we look at two women, one white and one black, who are both low-income, the two leftist groups would propose different solutions for how to solve the systemic problems they face. The traditional leftist would argue that simply erasing capitalism will solve the problem. The intersectional leftist will agree that we need to dismantle capitalism, but that women face special discrimination that is unrelated to income that also needs to be addressed, and that the black woman in particular suffers even more forms of unique discrimination in every facet of society, and that simply passing economic justice reforms will not solve these problems.

In recent years, as the glaring faultlines in capitalism have become more apparent, many ideas associated with traditional leftism have become more popular with those on the right, such as white people living in rural or post-industrial areas (often mocked with the "economic anxiety" phrasing) who went for Donald Trump in huge numbers in 2016. These individuals support various aspects of traditional leftism, such as living wages, universal basic income, universal healthcare, and maybe even the complete dismantling of capitalism itself, but they somehow ended up voting for Donald Trump. This is because they (falsely) viewed Trump as a disruptor who would somehow shake up the system, economically speaking. It was very clear to them that Trump had no intention of addressing systemic racism, sexism, or homophobia, but they didn't care. Economic justice was their only concern, and the capitalist Hillary Clinton was obviously not going to solve that problem, so Trump was the next best choice.

Candidates like Andrew Yang and (to some extent, mostly pre-2018) Bernie Sanders follow this traditional leftist mold very closely. They are very concerned with economic justice, but largely unconcerned with other forms of systemic discrimination beyond occasional platitudes about fair policing or fair housing. These issues are important, but they all play back into the economic argument, that socialism is a magic cure-all for bigotry. Capitalism is on its way out; this much is obvious. It is not sustainable and it will be dead in the future. Therefore, the future political division in this country isn't between "capitalists" and "lite capitalists" or even between "capitalists" and "socialists," but rather between these two different factions of leftists. The intersectional leftists have become the new left wing, and the traditional leftists have begun allying with their new right-wing allies in pursuit of shared economic goals.

You may describe yourself as a liberal, or a leftist. You can vote for Andrew Yang. You can use whatever terminology to self-identify that you want, but at the end of the day your political goals are very clearly much more closely-aligned with the right than the modern left. It's said that you can know a lot about a person's politics by the issues they consider important, and your content and online presence make it very clear what you consider important. Random, cherrypicked tweets or forum posts about killing white people or "down with cis;" movies that have "forced diversity" or "political correctness;" online forms of redressing institutional grievance like "cancel culture;" and people who say mean or insulting things about men or other traditional status quo structures like the patriarchy. Your content is very clearly aimed at a reactionary right-wing audience and their new traditional leftist allies, because nobody on the actual left supports or believes any of these things anymore. Everyone who did is on the right now, even if they don't fully self-identify that way yet. There are various things about the modern left that bother me too, but I consider them inconsequential and irrelevant compared to the global threat of right-wing authoritarianism, and therefore don't bother wasting my time discussing them or forming alliances with my enemies to destroy them.

Probably the flashpoint that most constantly flares tensions between these two groups, and the content around which people like yourself have made their living, is the idea that media has an effect on our political outlook and views. Right-wing reactionaries and traditional leftists believe that it doesn't. Modern intersectional leftism believes that it does. When a movie like TLJ or Captain Marvel features diversity, people such as yourself argue that this diversity is meaningless because true progressive art cannot exist under a capitalist system. This is true only in an economic sense, but modern leftist theory (and a growing body of research) holds that these diverse representations boost self-esteem and confidence among marginalized groups and contribute to more positive views of marginalized people among the majority. It is almost inarguable that diverse media representation does, in fact, play a key role in helping to degrade systemic power structures.

People like you view yourself as gatekeepers for what does and does not count as proper diversity and representation, and you get angry when it is suggested that, as a white man, your opinion is not relevant on this issue. As I said before, I sometimes take issue with various aspects of modern leftism too, but I don't bother discussing it because I don't consider it as important as the "real issues." I know who my enemy is, and it's not "pink-haired women screaming about killing men." If you consider something like this to be a serious threat to society, rather than a humorous nuisance, you are not a progressive leftist, you are a right-wing reactionary.

I see that you ended up getting banned while I was typing this and therefore you probably can't read it. Hopefully you took enough screenshots of these conversations to get yourself another Youtube video. When you make that video and post it, describing how you've been made a victim of leftist authoritarianism, consider what your audience is and why they're agreeing with you. They're not agreeing with you because they're leftists looking to reform the system from within. They're agreeing with you because they are extremely bigoted right-wing reactionaries, and they're trying to get you on their side. And if you aren't already, you will be soon, unless you take a step back and examine your audience and the things that you think are serious issues in the world today.

These twats are beyond mentally ill.

Oh yeah “people like you are gatekeepers” he says as he leftsplains from atop a mountain of shit. This guy is not a gatekeeper he just gave his opinion on a movie.

Also “if you consider pink hair a serious threat to society” no you fucking moron he did a comedy video wearing a pink wig. Jesus fucking Christ with these people

 

[Rentahamster]

So this is how you humans spend your free time now that you don't have to worry about saber tooth tigers eating your face anymore.

 

[#Phonepunk#]

how do hamsters spend their time?

 

[drganon]

It's weird how things have changed. Back in the day, if you said you thought the prequels or crystal skull sucked, no one batted an eye. Now, if you say the new sw movies suck, tons of people get upset and become corporate Disney shills.

 

[#Phonepunk#]

these same people were just celebrating a video where Freddie Prinze Jr., a voice actor on a SW tv show, told people he knew the force better than them and called them manbabies and used the F word about 15 times going on a rant. what does this kind of behavior sound like to you? he is a man, he is swearing at people, belittling their sexuality and manliness, all to defend a "children's movie".

there is toxic masculinity, but it is in the form of TLJ stans emboldened by corporate liberal media, who have siced them on the same old stereotype. how else do you explain Freddie Prinze Jr.'s latest rant? a typical jock, grew up learning martial arts, swimming, and dance, born in LA to a real estate agent and a famous actor, he bounced around a bunch of shitty sitcoms and bad 90s movies failing his way up to corporate whore, and now decades later his job is shitting on people for not being as well connected as he. LOL the ego on these people. their opinion has to encompass the entire world. this is a person who was posted in a celebratory manner by Cheebo just a week or two ago. a rich white man calling people babies and swearing a dozen times in his rant about "a movie for f***ing children". toxic masculinity.

all this shit is painfully familiar to me, it feels like when i used to get bullied in high school. people that would start calling you a name and get their friends to do it and then bring it up like you are their own personal running joke. Freddie Prinze Jr. is the exact kind of bully jock who would do this exact same shit. calling you a virgin is no different from this incel shaming bs. these people are toxic males and they don't even know it. if anyone is radicalizing vulnerable loners it is these assholes.

we are stuck in hell and hell of course is eternal high school.

 

[#Phonepunk#]

good update on all the recent TLJ backlash from toxic manba... i mean... the actors who starred in the films.

 

[ManaByte]

Founder of the “Fandom Menace”: “I loved The Last Jedi and thought it did a damned good job of what it needed to be for Star Wars” : https://media.discordapp.net/attach...ast_Jedi._Probably_the_Biggest_Plot_Twist.mp4

And I’ll just leave this here:

 

[Super Mario]

The media is too powerful. Before everyone was connected by everything, you couldn't push this crap. Now, the sky is the limit

 

[ManaByte]

The media is too powerful. Before everyone was connected by everything, you couldn't push this crap. Now, the sky is the limit

Monetized YouTube was a mistake.

 

[#Phonepunk#]

Monetized YouTube was a mistake.

dude are you going to be whining endlessly in this thread? if you want an anti-Fandom Menace thread then make it yourself. please keep that conspiracy trash out of my thread.

the company making these films have all of media, they have all the establishment oldschool press, all the blue check twitter journalists, all the message board heroes, why is it SO BAD that a half dozen people give their own personal coverage of this stuff? do you watch any of it? it's honestly on the level of Entertainment Tonight or something. get a grip.

Founder of the “Fandom Menace”: “I loved The Last Jedi

well then his experience matched mine. i sort of enjoyed it in theater, as a brain dead stupid film i would rate next to ROTJ. then after 2 years of people screaming it is a masterpiece and i'm an IST for not liking it, i turned around. i looked at the movie with a critical eye, something the movie itself demanded of me, and found it WANTING.

the fact that people aren't unchanging robots is not a point against them. like LOL are you calling him a hypocrite for having evolving feelings towards a movie? jfc with the consumer policing.

 

[GreyHorace]

How does me complaining about The Last Jedi's blatant offenses make me a Nazi?

Or perhaps pointing out the woke casting shenanigans in Netflix's The Witcher?

Or mocking the Star Trek Discovery writing team's blatant ignorance of the themes of the franchise?

Or calling out game journalists for having close ties with the developers of certain games? (i.e. Zoe Quinn)

Has the bar been set low for what constitutes fascism? Are fanboys now one step away from sending minorities into gas chambers and burning the bodies in ovens?

Fuck you Hollywood. And fuck you too mainstream media. It's insulting that you would make this comparison. You grew fat and wealthy on the money we spent watching your shit. But now that we don't like it, you compare us to the greatest evil of the 20th century?

It's times like this I wish I could be a hermit and ignore the craziness of this world.

 

[Nymphae]

You grew fat and wealthy on the money we spent watching your shit.

This is what makes me mad about Hollywood and the media, and everyone who is a slave to them. People need to realize that it is they who need us, not the other way around.

Owen Benjamin highlighted a tweet the other day on his stream when discussing how his YT accounts were totally nuked, a woman who said "It's not what he's saying that is dangerous, but that no one is controlling him. Hollywood has always needed us." He scares them, he doesn't toe the mainstream line, and his audience has been growing despite the the hit pieces, the increasing bans from social media and payment processors, YT fucking with his streams (which seem to magically have no issues now on other platforms...hmmm.) They are terrified of non-mainstream entertainers who are gaining traction and are doing everything they can to shut those voices out. Seeing shit like this happen to great people like Owen who are literally just peacefully chatting is infuriating and strengthens my resolve to not spend any more of my money or time on modern propaganda. You don't need it. Support the underdogs who are doing good work, and fuck Hollywood.

 

[MilkyJoe]

Founder of the “Fandom Menace”: “I loved The Last Jedi and thought it did a damned good job of what it needed to be for Star Wars” : https://media.discordapp.net/attach...ast_Jedi._Probably_the_Biggest_Plot_Twist.mp4

And I’ll just leave this here:

I thought I liked it too, for a day or so, then upon reflection I realised it failed miserably as part 2 of a trilogy , therefore destroying itself, Episode 7 and Episode 9, in one fail swoop. In short it went from OK at the time to "fuck me, that's the most destructive piece of cinema in the history of the industry"

ps The Fandom Menace is not hierarchical.

 

[GreyHorace]

This is what makes me mad about Hollywood and the media, and everyone who is a slave to them. People need to realize that it is they who need us, not the other way around.

Owen Benjamin highlighted a tweet the other day on his stream when discussing how his YT accounts were totally nuked, a woman who said "It's not what he's saying that is dangerous, but that no one is controlling him. Hollywood has always needed us." He scares them, he doesn't toe the mainstream line, and his audience has been growing despite the the hit pieces, the increasing bans from social media and payment processors, YT fucking with his streams (which seem to magically have no issues now on other platforms...hmmm.) They are terrified of non-mainstream entertainers who are gaining traction and are doing everything they can to shut those voices out. Seeing shit like this happen to great people like Owen who are literally just peacefully chatting is infuriating and strengthens my resolve to not spend any more of my money or time on modern propaganda. You don't need it. Support the underdogs who are doing good work, and fuck Hollywood.

Don't know who this Owen Benjamin dude is, but I can understand what he's going through. His situation sounds like that of Richard Meyer aka YaBoiZack. Dude was just running a small youtube channel reviewing and mocking the woke direction in comic books. Then suddenly the sjw goons of Marvel Comics, led by veteran writer Mark Waid, decided to target him and try to drive him from comic fandom altogether. And like your example above, this just served to make Meyer more popular with comic fans, and his fundraisers for his independent comic book projects were suddenly flush with cash. Even Waid's blatantly illegal fucking with his contract from Antarctic Press couldn't stop his continued success.

Fans need to continue supporting the creators who listen to them and not these libtard idiots who seem to despise fandom.

 

[#Phonepunk#]

hopefully yesterday's blowout with all the Twitter blue checks going in on John Boyega and "toxic fandome" cos he/they didn't like TLJ have demonstrated that toxic behavior is not limited to "the haters" in fact it's just a problem with social media.

here's a bad take from yesterday. this woman wrote for Entertainment Weekly and The New Yorker and is writing for the She-Hulk D+ show. yesterday this "professional" compared people that dislike a movie to DOMESTIC ABUSERS

 

[Nymphae]

hopefully yesterday's blowout with all the Twitter blue checks going in on John Boyega and "toxic fandome" cos he/they didn't like TLJ have demonstrated that toxic behavior is not limited to "the haters" in fact it's just a problem with social media.

here's a bad take from yesterday. this woman wrote for Entertainment Weekly and The New Yorker and is writing for the She-Hulk D+ show. yesterday this "professional" compared people that dislike a movie to DOMESTIC ABUSERS

In the replies "It’s almost like Star Wars fans are the market for a Star Wars movie." lol

 

[GreyHorace]

hopefully yesterday's blowout with all the Twitter blue checks going in on John Boyega and "toxic fandome" cos he/they didn't like TLJ have demonstrated that toxic behavior is not limited to "the haters" in fact it's just a problem with social media.

here's a bad take from yesterday. this woman wrote for Entertainment Weekly and The New Yorker and is writing for the She-Hulk D+ show. yesterday this "professional" compared people that dislike a movie to DOMESTIC ABUSERS

Nice. Downgrade from being a Nazi at least. Now I just beat women for shits and giggles.

Keep on playing that victim card then. No one cares you stupid cow.

 

[kunonabi]

The writer for the She-Hulk TV show just had a meltdown on Twitter whining that the actors and Abrams arent defending Johnson from all those evil, stupid fans.