ShinMaruku
Member
Will do.
A tip about stick, get both dashes down pretty well too many people go to stick and can't dash or back dash but do everything else fine.
The Fighting Game Noob Thread: From Scrub to Master
- Thread starter Cindi Mayweather
- Start date
Will do.
A tip about stick, get both dashes down pretty well too many people go to stick and can't dash or back dash but do everything else fine.
Crab Milk Mickey
Member
Good plan of action.
Conjuring up basic outlines in your mind to keep track of the cast's various game plans is very beneficial in the long term, but it might be information processing overload when breaking in the stick and adapting to the tweaks of your main + the underlying systems at the same time. I felt overwhelmed trying to juggle four characters (two I liked playing and two I wanted more adversial knowledge about) while handicapped through growing pains vs a thinking opponent, so I had to simplify matters for the beta.
What Shin brought up re: inputs are also good tips.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
Cammy used to be my old main a long, long time ago, in a place far, far away going back to SFII. I dropped her during Super IV and switched to Ryu. So I know basic Cammy strats. I also know what's annoying as fuck as Cammy or what to look out for as Chun. So if you have any basic questions, ask away. She's definitely going to become a sub. Her intro is too fucking awesome as a Cammy fan to ignore.
I'll simplify things and do it one bit at a time.
First break in and get used to stick, while learning Chun, but go through arcade with every character anyways, just to see what they can do and get a feel.
Then after Texas Showdown, I'll branch off of Chun and start playing the rest of the cast to prepare for EVO (if I can make it).
Pfft, it's not like I'm QisTopTier levels of Ky anyway. Just lmk if you want to play.
Alright. Psn is my username if you wanna add.
FindMyFarms
Member
Lmao you're going to die and be frustrated infinitely more while learning fighting games compared to bloodbourne. Think of BB as extra easy/novice mode compared to what you're about to undertake.
However, when everything starts to click and you get a hang of things, it's extremely rewarding and also very hard to go back to any other genre. Best of luck!
FindMyFarms
Member
In all honesty yeah it's dumb.
Justin wong can pick up almost any fighting game and be good at it because he has a mastery of fundamentals and tool recognition.
This applies on a smaller scale as well to a single game and its cast.
You'll get better returns really understanding how to play the game with one character (of course feel free to bounce around til you find one that suits you) than you will trying to learn everyone.
Once you have a good fundamental understanding of the game, along with having developed appropriate deductive skills (in terms of know what tools are good when/where, what you need and why) it will be a lot easier learning how to play new characters.
It's like trying to learn 10 different programming languages at the same time when you've never coded before in your life.
Question for Pad Players: Is there a good tutorial somewhere that shows the best way to hold a controller for Street Fighter? Is the FightPad worth the purchase? Is holding it significantly different?
Reason: I began having wrist problems around 2-3 years ago and they just aren't going away. It's severely cut back on my ability to play games that require a lot of wrist movement/repetitive clicking (MMOs, MOBAs, most PC FPS's, etc) and in the end it affected my SF FightStick play. I can wear wrist braces and play for a night if I want, but it always takes a day or two of resting to get over the discomfort/pain. I have almost no problems playing with a regular controller and want to try and switch to that for SFV. I know that certain players (SnakeEyez, Luffy) use pad, but can't find any kind of tutorial on how to hold it. Anyone got anything?
Reason: I began having wrist problems around 2-3 years ago and they just aren't going away. It's severely cut back on my ability to play games that require a lot of wrist movement/repetitive clicking (MMOs, MOBAs, most PC FPS's, etc) and in the end it affected my SF FightStick play. I can wear wrist braces and play for a night if I want, but it always takes a day or two of resting to get over the discomfort/pain. I have almost no problems playing with a regular controller and want to try and switch to that for SFV. I know that certain players (SnakeEyez, Luffy) use pad, but can't find any kind of tutorial on how to hold it. Anyone got anything?
Gipsy Danger
Member
Not a pad player but I think, like stick, it's just personal preference. Some people hold it with their left hand and use the fingers on their right hand to tap the buttons almost like it was a fightstick. Smug I know just plays on a default ass pad and holds it like he's playing any other game.
The fightpad is useful if you don't think a regular pad is working out for you, if you think it's hold you back then you should invest in one but only then. As I said, most controller choices come down to personal preference so do what makes you most comfortable.
zedreamcast
Member
This is an overhead whaaaaaaNo, I mean Alex standing fierce punch, the one that looks like this:
Glad I could help though.
markwaters
Neo Member
The most important aspect of choosing a peripheral/control style is consistency. You really just need to pick something that is the most physically comfortable/enjoyable to you and stick with it until you are proficient. If it's not working out, try something else.
Case in point: Snake uses a a MadCatz fight pad (currently) and Louffy uses a PlayStation 1 controller. They are two completely different peripherals and they, as players, employ two completely different styles in terms of controller use.
I wish there were a more substantial explanation, but everyone has their own way of doing things to get the same results. Even stick players all hold the joystick differently and use different fingers to press different buttons. Some people double tap. Some people never even bothered to learn how to plink in SF4 (ChrisG). Some people use the the 3 left-most buttons, others the 3 right-most.
TL;DR: Just find a pad you like, stick with it, and experiment if you need to.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
Well, I didn't say get good with the whole cast at once.
Excellent post. Thanks for the write-up!
This and the concept of "turns" exposes my biggest weaknesses as a fighting game player - I tend to let mashy opponents "steal" my turns far too often. On offense, my frame trap and meaty oki game aren't tight enough, so I tend to get hit by even the stupidest buttons to press in the situation. On defense, I tend to just sit and don't take my turns when I should, unless something blatantly unsafe is thrown out.
FindMyFarms
Member
I know, you said adequate. My post applies to that.
If you want to eventually be adequate with the whole cast that's fine, but I wouldn't recommend striving for it until you know how to both play the game and use one character very well.
pattheflip
Neo Member
Hi everyone!
Did a video talking about how to answer the question "Why did I lose?" and figured it'd be useful to anyone in this thread, since y'all are about conscious self-improvement.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZwUWf4bao8
Also, if you don't want to watch a long video, I published my notes so you can get the tldr:
http://pattheflip.tumblr.com/post/138612893938/why-you-lose-in-fighting-games
In case you're wondering, the answer is:
Because you pressed the wrong buttons at the wrong time.
Did a video talking about how to answer the question "Why did I lose?" and figured it'd be useful to anyone in this thread, since y'all are about conscious self-improvement.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZwUWf4bao8
Also, if you don't want to watch a long video, I published my notes so you can get the tldr:
http://pattheflip.tumblr.com/post/138612893938/why-you-lose-in-fighting-games
In case you're wondering, the answer is:
Because you pressed the wrong buttons at the wrong time.
hey_it's_that_dog
benevolent sexism
I've been playing on pad since the SNES and as a result I still use the shoulder buttons to play SF. I changed to using only right side shoulders as soon as that was an option. Now I have a 6 button pad, but I still assign lp and lk to R1 and R2. I treat the 2 extra face buttons as extraneous or as multi button short cuts.
This means I didn't have to learn a new button layout or change the way I hold the controller, thereby capitalizing on all my prior experience with standard controllers.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
ShinMaruku
Member
For those who want to have a view of the DOA5 aily meta:
www.twitch.tv/shimaruku
Every day you should be mindful of what is being played by what players so you can absorb a different kind of play meta.
www.twitch.tv/shimaruku
Every day you should be mindful of what is being played by what players so you can absorb a different kind of play meta.
Professor Beef
Banned
Yup, it's all preference. I use a DS2/3 as my main controller, and it works great for me.
shaowebb
Member
I've seen his Ky and it is indeed shit your pants inducingly awesome. I love watching him vs Proto's Millia.
now I feel like I'mma die a lot like I did with Count on Xrd lol.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
Krazy, let's play GG tonight if I can get my connection working better.
I'll see if I can get some matches in tonight. Your I-no is really good. Do you happen to have a mic? Might help critiquing while playing (just a suggestion or something).
Cindi Mayweather
Member
My I-No is not "really good". Haha. We'll see how much she's evolved since then, though. I've been practicing. Ku ku kuuuu~
I'm new to GG just like you!
I'm new to GG just like you!
BumblebeeCody
Member
Nice video. A new Podcast?
Much truth. You can say "oh you need to play Street Fighter on stick of Smash on a GameCube controller" but then Louffy wins even with a PS1 controller.
Ah, a really good I-No?
I've been playing against a local I-No for a bit, so I wonder how well my matchup knowledge can transfer
Mirror matches with Ky have been really weird for me so I'll stick to Bedman if I can get my internet connection unwonked by tonight.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
I dislike this argument.
Luffy won on a ps1 controller because he's Luffy. I don't think the mindset is "Luffy can win on a ps1 controller and so can I." I'd say for most people, a stick would be for the best because these games are made for that input in mind and depending on the game, playing on pad versus stick is a serious handicap and makes things so much harder than it needs to be. It also is character specific. Snake Eyez mostly plays grapllers, and mostly Gief, which is a pretty pad friendly character once accustomed to 720 and 360 inputs.
If you're playing an execution heavy character, convincing yourself that you'll be fine because Snake Eyez and Luffy play pad, you're setting yourself up for a massive delusion. These games are made for stick in mind. If you play charge, you might have an easier time with stick. I know that I do and I've barely put any time into stick and don't own one (yet).
Comparing yourself high level players is foolish because it goes with the assumption you're a high level player. Guys like Snake Eyez and Luffy play on pad in spite of being high level, it doesn't mean that pad is the preferred or necessarily best means of play.
That said, I think we should use whatever is comfortable for each person and I think in Owensboro's case, pad should be ideal.
Owensboro:
Try the Hori FC4 or the new Mad Catz SFV fightpad. One benefit with both of those is that you don't need to hold it like a regular controller. I personally put it on my right leg, have my left thumb on d-pad, left index on L1/L2, and have my right hand piano/keyboard style the face buttons. If either of those don't work out for you, try other controllers.
For the most part it's reasonably comfortable and it eases stress on the wrist by using the leg as support.
Lostconfused
Member
Is it any different from any other mirror match as in "first to get their gimmicks started"?
Not at all. My problem stems from how I get timid with what the other Ky can do with frame traps and j D shenanigans. I don't know why, but I become insular and stupid during only Ky mirror matches.
You say that, but you seem to understand what to do in GG than me. lol (just observation based on past match)
Cindi Mayweather
Member
Zone me out with Ky's options. He has huge, long pokes. His projectiles are great too. Have you watched the Guilty Gear beginner series?
Not recently. Been busy with school lately. But I'll watch it before out matches tonight if I can get some in tonight.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
Concentrate on one lesson plan at a time. Don't watch in bulk. Try to get the core concepts of each lesson before moving on to the next. It takes a few weeks.
I'll keep that in mind. I'll try to practice the lessons each time (or go back to one before starting the next). But yeah I am not gonna watch it in bulk. That's just overload for me.
I agree with you but I believe when people bring up Luffy or Smug as high level pad players they are letting new players know, which is who they are addressing when this question is asked, you don't necessarily need to spend $100-$200 to be good at Street Fighter. There's a good chance these players won't be good or want to stick with Street Fighter so they're saving them a good chunk of money in the long run. Ideally, everyone would have access to a stick to see if that's a good fit but that isn't the case.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
I agree. My problem is that people make it out like pad and stick are total equivalents, when they're not. Pad IS harder than stick depending on what character or move you're using. I can do Shoryu FADC Ultra with Ryu on stick but I cannot for the life of me do it naturally on pad without thinking about my inputs and I play a six button pad. Having eight face butons is just useful in this case when it comes to stick. This is a simple fact. That's not to say it's impossible on pad, but it's going to be that much harder. Same thing with advanced charge buffering, or 1 frame links.
When people point out that Smug or Luffy or Snake play on pad, and you should too, it feels like a lie, because those players are very much in the way of being exceptions.
There's things that are easier with pad, and there's things easier with stick, and people like to use these high level players as examples that you too can be proficient with fighting games with pad feels like a lie because it doesn't include the asterisk that you are likely going to have to work five times harder, depending on your character, game, and play style. Because a game like SFIV? That's not pad friendly no matter how you slice it. Compared to something like GG, BB, or MKX especially.
It's interesting to note that SFV is FAR more pad friendly. Like, BY FAR.
Professor Beef
Banned
SF4 is only pad-unfriendly to characters with mash inputs like Honda or Blanka. And even then, you can still use them. The shoulder buttons being macros helps out a ton with every character, which is something that I think you might be overlooking.
For sure, I remember playing Killer Instinct for the first time with pad and it actually felt really smooth and good. A lot of the next-gen, 3D modeled fighters just have smoother input in general, so it makes playing on pad more tolerable. One thing I found out from watching the Excellent Adventures episode with SMUG too is how he switches pad styles from a regular grip to a claw grip on the fly depending on the situation. That seems incredibly weird and hard to do but if anyone can master doing something like that it's SMUG for sure.
Professor Beef
Banned
Yeah, Smug does it to help with plinking.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
Shoulder buttons is actually a handicap to me depending on how you hold it. Because when you have a six button pad one of the best ways to play it is it on your knee. But your grip is in an unnatural way due to positioning of being on your knee, which forces you to grip it tighter. Which is uncomfortable when you want to go for a PPP ultra.
Shoulder buttons are only a benefit if you hold the pad like a normal controller and always have readily accessible buttons.
Saying pad is unfriendly for only slaps is false. It's so much harder to plink or piano on a standard pad. Why don't you try out an advanced charge buffer on a pad?
Professor Beef
Banned
I use a DS2/3, so all of my buttons are easily accessible.
And I can do charge buffering on a pad no problem, but I don't use - or like - the characters that need them.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
I don't like that at all. I prefer having multiple face buttons.
Again, try to do an advanced charge buffer on a pad.
You even say "fuck combos, play grapplers" so you get to avoid a character type that doesn't require the raw execution that makes pad harder.
You can't say "fuck combos, play grapplers" and then say "SFIV is only pad unfriendly with slaps."
What charge buffering? Charge buffering or advanced charge buffering?
Can you do this?
http://www.eventhubs.com/guides/2009/sep/10/charge-buffering-street-fighter-4/
I try that on pad and it rarely comes out. I did it on stick and pulled it off the first time.
rockmanjoe
Member
I started to play GGXrd on PC and I feel it's very pad friendly. Must be because of the 4 button layout. For SF tho, keyboard all the way for me.
Loving Xrd. After so long of only playing capcom stuff, it's a breath of fresh air for me. I'd love to get good at it.
Loving Xrd. After so long of only playing capcom stuff, it's a breath of fresh air for me. I'd love to get good at it.
Prototype-03
Member
Professor Beef
Banned
I say "fuck combos, play grapplers" because grapplers are more fun to me, not because it's a philosophy
Pianoing is naturally harder on pad, which is why I said that SF4 is unfriendlier to mash inputs. SF4 is still a pad-friendly game overall, and using a stick is not some sort of requirement for anything that the game has to offer.
And yes, I can do that with Guile. It's not that hard, but I don't like using Guile so I never have a reason to do it.
What Beef says. It is character dependent, at least in SFIV. SFV unless some obscure tech gets found out stick and pad are at even standing.
Also cross posting from other thread about training and giving an in depth look in combos:
My suggestion is, if you aren't doing it yet.
Is to add this. People seem to like focusing on the "combo" alone, but you also have to think about "How to successfully get to use the combo" and "What can I do after the combo? Pressure? Meter build? Return to neutral?"
For example SFV Ryu has 4 different tatsus.
LK Tatsu pushes opponent away to corner and can lead to follow up super
MK Tatsu moves yourself and your opponent to corner
HK Tatsu switches sides but keeps you at point blank of your opponent and ignores the back roll, because the opponent will roll "into you".
EX Tatsu does max damage out of all Tatsus and blows opponent full screen and can combo into EX DP in corner.
Now onto theory how to get to use them in combos:
First thing you think about is, which normal can be cancelled and combo'd into these moves. The answer is st.LK(only works with LK and MK Tatsu), st.MP, cr. MP, cr.MK and cr.HP. Possibly st.LP and cr.LP, I forgot to test them.
All Tatsus except EX requires the opponent to stand. So you have to think how to use the other ones AND HK Tatsu cannot be combo'd into by lights.
All Tatsus sans EX:
If they already stand you can tatsu away.
If they are crouching you have to force them to stand. Luckily there are moves that does force he opponent to stand on hit.
These are:
cr.HP, can combo into any Tatsu
b.HK, can combo into st.lk which can lead to either LK or MK Tatsu, due to lower hitstun. BUT when you manage to hit it as a late meaty then linking it into st.MP is possible
You can recognize the next problem. Neither are moves you usually use. Which means you have to think how to utilize both attacks. In this case you have 2 options:
a) Combo into it
b) It is slow and cannot combo into it. Which means I have to use it different.
cr.HP falls into point a)
You can combo into it with st.MP or close enough f.HP.
You can do a st.MP after a jump in and use it to hit confirm, if st.MP hits you go for cr.HP and if it gets blocked you go for either nothing or just another st.MP to frame trap. If the second st.MP hits you can cancel it into any Tatsu if the opponents stands, EX Tatsu for max damage and crouching opponent or Hadoken for return to neutral and EX Hadoken for soft knockdown.
b.HK b) while f.HP is a weird mix of a) and b) since it can lead into cr.HP.
b.HK can be used for meaty to hit confirm, same applies to f.HP. But f.HP has the additional property of moving forward so you can use it in relatively close proximity when you expect the opponent to not intercept you. Both attacks are safe on block and slow enough to hitconfirm.
Now you managed to hit the combo now what?
LK and EX Tatsu returns to neutral. Self explanatory, but both have additional uses see above.
MK Tatsu moves you forward and if the opponent does back roll you return to neutral(or maybe even jump in chance). Not sure about quick stand, but it should leave the opponent close enough to continue pressure.
HK Tatsu switches sides and leaves you point blank. Which means you can go for meaty, back throw or read a reversal and punish it.
Hadoken returns to neutral.
EX Hadoken knocks opponent down and enables you to move forward and push further to corner (and maybe even jump in, not sure about this).
This is just an example. But you should get the gist of it.
Banderdash
Member
I keep thinking about getting into Killer Instinct.
I'm a button masher from way back, but my only experience is with Mortal Kombat (and even that I couldn't get any further that about halfway through the story mode in 9).
Is there any sort of tutorial series I could watch?
I'm a button masher from way back, but my only experience is with Mortal Kombat (and even that I couldn't get any further that about halfway through the story mode in 9).
Is there any sort of tutorial series I could watch?
GootecksShimmy
Banned
You're in for a treat, because KI itself has a solid tutorial built into it.
Great game to pick up and ease yourself into fighters IMO.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
Another great post!
I was trying to figure out which buttons combo into Super and legs the other day.
I don't know how to get to a point to do combos. I kind of just do them. How do I know certain attacks make people stand up? Is this human reflex you're talking about? I would get hit out mid combo during SFV beta and it was really aggravating.
I'll find you an example.
See here: https://youtu.be/J2uPkfJoMS0?t=6m34s
I use hit confirms and I cancel into ex legs and get hit during ex leg start up and I'm just left confused.
Are you willing to train with me during SFV? I'm going to try to train with as many people as possible. I really hope SFV has an online training mode like Ultra.
Osu 16 Bit
Member
Just play on whatever controller you want. It doesn't matter anymore. There will be more top pad players in SF V than ever before.