The final Tonight Show with Jay Leno

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Revolver said:
I think Fallon will have an easier job of keeping Leno's audience than Conan did. His comedy is mostly harmless and he's a kiss ass interviewer that doesn't upset the apple cart. The transition shouldn't be too jarring for Leno viewers. I mean he writes thank you notes as a comedy bit for goodness sake.
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Also Fallon gets to stay in NY. I wish Conan could have done The Tonight Show in NY instead of moving to California. :-\
 
Camwi said:
I'm sure it sounds crazy to you, but that "Tonight Show" name means the absolute world to Conan. I don't know if it was during one of his last episodes, or in one of the interviews he did post-layoff, but he went indepth as to how much that show meant to him.
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It sounds crazy to anyone because he irrationally put it on this pedestal where it no longer belonged. Nobody who remembers Carson's hey day watches Conan and his core audience knows the Tonight Show as the unfunny show Jay Leno hosts.
 
jstripes said:
I'm still amazed Fallon managed to have the Tonight Show moved to New York, which works out great for him and his staff.



Nope. The new Late Night studio is just down the hall from SNL.
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Didn't Comcast basically move NBC's comedy division to New York, and give Lorne Michaels near carte blanche over a lot of it?
 
Camwi said:
It actually kinda was Jay's fault that Conan's ratings were down. Jay's primetime show had shit ratings which then caused the news and Conan's ratings to go down the toilet.
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Jay's show came on months after Conan, and Conan's ratings were already sinking into the toilet.

I haven't watched any late show in years, but it just is irritating that one guy gets all the benefit of the doubt because he is younger and did a PR campaign to protect his image while the other guy just did what was asked of him and that somehow turned him into a monster.

NBC is the one who screwed both over, but Conan was the one who tried to present events as him being the honest good guy getting stomped on and mistreated by NBC and Leno. And to this day he is bitter and graceless about it.

Conan had his shot and he largely failed through his own work but he blames everyone else. Jay got fired twice while being number one and hasn't spit out one tenth the venom Conan has.
 
Camwi said:
I'm sure it sounds crazy to you, but that "Tonight Show" name means the absolute world to Conan. I don't know if it was during one of his last episodes, or in one of the interviews he did post-layoff, but he went indepth as to how much that show meant to him.
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I feel like it was post-layoff but I could be wrong. I feel like I watched it after his move to TBS. I'm not a huge Conan fan but he's funny occasionally. My folks watched Jay, though I generally preferred Dave while growing up. I thought Jay got funnier as I got older and I enjoyed watching these last few weeks. Good luck to Fallon.
 
JasonUresti said:
Jay's show came on months after Conan, and Conan's ratings were already sinking into the toilet.

I haven't watched any late show in years, but it just is irritating that one guy gets all the benefit of the doubt because he is younger and did a PR campaign to protect his image while the other guy just did what was asked of him and that somehow turned him into a monster.

NBC is the one who screwed both over, but Conan was the one who tried to present events as him being the honest good guy getting stomped on and mistreated by NBC and Leno. And to this day he is bitter and graceless about it.

Conan had his shot and he largely failed through his own work but he blames everyone else. Jay got fired twice while being number one and hasn't spit out one tenth the venom Conan has.
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I won't give credit to Jay on that. He should have told NBC to fuck off and went to some other network but I guess he needed to keep up his nice guy schtick. Of course Conan is bitter. You would be too.
 
Skiptastic said:
I still don't see how that makes sense. Why not just cancel Jay's show and leave Conan as is?
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Jay had a contract called a pay and play. Meaning they HAD to keep his show on the air for 2 years. This was a super rare and super dumb contact for many reasons. Basically if NBC took jay off the air, jay could sue for A LOT. Conan on the other hand had no time slot guarantee for 1135 so NBC had a easy choice.
 
Ninja Scooter said:
It sounds crazy to anyone because he irrationally put it on this pedestal where it no longer belonged. Nobody who remembers Carson's hey day watches Conan and his core audience knows the Tonight Show as the unfunny show Jay Leno hosts.
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I understand that and agree, I was just pointing out Conan's point of view.

JasonUresti said:
Jay's show came on months after Conan, and Conan's ratings were already sinking into the toilet.

I haven't watched any late show in years, but it just is irritating that one guy gets all the benefit of the doubt because he is younger and did a PR campaign to protect his image while the other guy just did what was asked of him and that somehow turned him into a monster.

NBC is the one who screwed both over, but Conan was the one who tried to present events as him being the honest good guy getting stomped on and mistreated by NBC and Leno. And to this day he is bitter and graceless about it.

Conan had his shot and he largely failed through his own work but he blames everyone else. Jay got fired twice while being number one and hasn't spit out one tenth the venom Conan has.
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IIRC, Leno's numbers dropped after he took over for Carson, but NBC gave him years to pick them back up. Conan was given months.

People don't give Leno the benefit of the doubt because he's always came across as kinda scummy ever since the "hiding in the closet" thing.
 
gabbo said:
Didn't Comcast basically move NBC's comedy division to New York, and give Lorne Michaels near carte blanche over a lot of it?
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Yeah, the NBC that botched the whole Conan transition basically doesn't exist anymore. I think even Conan said it's entirely new people, and they're on good terms with each other now. They let Conan make a cameo on Fallon, for example.
 
JasonUresti said:
Jay's show came on months after Conan, and Conan's ratings were already sinking into the toilet.

I haven't watched any late show in years, but it just is irritating that one guy gets all the benefit of the doubt because he is younger and did a PR campaign to protect his image while the other guy just did what was asked of him and that somehow turned him into a monster.

NBC is the one who screwed both over, but Conan was the one who tried to present events as him being the honest good guy getting stomped on and mistreated by NBC and Leno. And to this day he is bitter and graceless about it.

Conan had his shot and he largely failed through his own work but he blames everyone else. Jay got fired twice while being number one and hasn't spit out one tenth the venom Conan has.
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Pretty much this.
 
Camwi said:
I understand that and agree, I was just pointing out Conan's point of view.



IIRC, Leno's numbers dropped after he took over for Carson, but NBC gave him years to pick them back up. Conan was given months.

People don't give Leno the benefit of the doubt because he's always came across as kinda scummy ever since the "hiding in the closet" thing.
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Conan's brand of comedy isn't very mainstream and NBC probably was starting to realize that after they made the change. They honestly should have just let Conan go and let Leno finish his run because Leno wasn't ready to retire and Conan wasn't the right fit for the job.
 
"Hosting 'The Tonight Show' has been the fulfillment of a life-long dream for me. And I just want to say to the kids out their watching, you can do anything you want in life. Unless Jay Leno wants to do it, too." –Conan O'Brien

Lol, best joke about it from then.
 
Conan's ratings were fine. He was never going to hold Leno's older audience, but they don't matter to advertisers so it's a moot point. Maybe NBC had higher hopes for Conan's numbers in the the 'demo' but surely they were no worse than acceptable. And Leno's show came in soon enough that it's a very easy argument to make that it stunted Conan's potential growth.

Conan didn't get bumped because of his ratings. He got bumped because Leno's buyout was bigger and because Leno's prime time show failed. The prime time show whose very existence kind of undermined Conan's Tonight Show. Leno had signed off on the succession plan, if he wasn't on board with it he should have forced the issue during that contract negotiation back in 2005 or whatever it was. That plan wasn't Conan's idea in the first place. That was Zucker's plan for keeping Conan from jumping to FOX when he was hot, and could have easily doubled the salary NBC was giving him to stay at Late Night.

The reason Jay has a reputation as an underhanded fuckwit is because he is an underhanded fuckwit. And few people give him the benefit of the doubt because people still remember the shit he pulled on Johnny Carson and Dave Letterman back in the early 90s.
 
TBH I much prefer having Conan on TBS than on The Tonight Show. NBC really made him tone down his humor to be more mainstream on TTS. While Conan on TBS may not overall be as great as Late Night, his TBS show can be really great sometimes.
 
DarkFlow said:
He says a lot of things.
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I doubt Ferguson would take Letterman's spot. He knows most of his stuff wouldn't fly on earlier spot and we would lose Geoff and much of the other stuff as well. Ferguson on earlier spot would be lame and even he knows it.
 
gabbo said:
Who has said on several occasions that he has no interest in taking the 11:35 spot.
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Probably doesn't want to feed the tabloids.

If he truly well does prefer his current timeslot, then it'd more than likely be Conan taking over for Letterman. CBS doesn't have anything like SNL to farm new talent out of.
 
Camwi said:
I understand that and agree, I was just pointing out Conan's point of view.



IIRC, Leno's numbers dropped after he took over for Carson, but NBC gave him years to pick them back up. Conan was given months.

People don't give Leno the benefit of the doubt because he's always came across as kinda scummy ever since the "hiding in the closet" thing.
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He and/or his manager at the time told a newspaper that Johnny Carson was retiring before Johnny announced it. Carson called Jay and he denied it saying it was his manager. Carson didn't believe him. Whether Jay knew it or not it was a fuck you move to someone with Carson's reputation. Jay eventually fired his manager but his bad reputation stayed. In hindsight he should have left NBC and let Conan do his thing. Three extra years is not worth it for the horrible PR he's had. Today I think people will remember Jay as a Tonight Show Host and a slimy backstabber.
 
MrOogieBoogie said:
You're missing his greatest interview: Kate Mara

So hot.
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kate mara's interview is good too, but here's a higher quality version.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xdSpQMvkJg

every guy can get some good tips from craig by watching him talk to these lovely ladies

daniela ruah again
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTb7AoNDmic

daniela ruah HD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGrYGaTMqAo

daniela ruah and craig discussing pervy stuff
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcTkWl6Gc_g




mila kunis
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUH7oqKUKYM
 
HBO should do their own spin on the Last shift for this generation.

I think people are too soft with Conan and find it odd that the support does not translate into viewers. The critics blame bad lead ins and saying affiliates were fine but you don't cut loose a winning horse.

One thing that Conan got right with the sympathy vote.
 
One of the biggest problems with Conan's audience is that they are NOT a television audience. They are an online audience, much like Kimmel...but to an even higher extreme.

Look at TeamCoco's YouTube page, and compare it to Letterman's and Leno's. The difference in userbase and viewership is enormous. Conan was at least smart enough to know that, because most of the YouTube monetization goes to his production company and not TBS.
 
AlphaSnake said:
He didn't screw over Conan.

Leno was just as compromised as Conan was. They were both under contract, the difference was that Conan was allowed to exit his contract and negotiate a settlement out. While NBC refused to let Leno go, that's why they gave him a 10PM show too - they were scared he'd be poached by another network once he retired, because Leno was actually fired from his position the first time. And just like Conan, Leno also had a massive staff that needed a paycheck and healthcare benefits. It's not as one sided as the Coco fans made it out to be.

Also, Conan wanted the Tonight Show gig so bad he threatened NBC back in 2004 that he would leave for FOX or ABC if they did not promise it to him. So they did. That's why the announcement was made almost 5 years ahead of time.

It's show business, and it's a cruel, ruthless, spit you out business. The only real asshole in the whole debacle was NBC and Jeff Zucker, who was a colossal piece of shit.
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Yeah CoCo was a huge jackass in the whole deal.
He basically demanded NBC fire Leno & his entire work staff so Conan can be moved up an hour.
I'm glad Leno screwed him back.
 
Seth C said:
Jay's show tanks. The local news tanks hard. There are no viewers left to watch Conan. So NBC panics. NBC/s solution is to move Jay back to 11:30 and bump Conan to 12, effectively putting Conan right back to being "the late, late show". Conan says no. NBC looks at contracts. Jay's was written better and would cost far more to break, so they chose the cheaper option.
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spliced said:
I never knew that about him letting comedians stay at his place in Boston. It's so strange to me that he's got this internet backlash and reputation with some as a bad guy when he's helped out so many comedians along the way..
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This is all bullshit. The Late Night Wars book laid it all out in detail.

NBC wanted to put Leno on 11:30 & push Conan back half an hour to stop the rating bleeding. This was not set in stone & they might have backed down, but Conan became a drama queen when he heard of it & basically made an ultimatum to NBC, fire Leno or me.
Conan balked at this & at the last second quit himself.
Thinking ABC or Fox would quickly scoop him up (boy was he ever wrong).


spliced said:
I never knew that about him letting comedians stay at his place in Boston. It's so strange to me that he's got this internet backlash and reputation with some as a bad guy when he's helped out so many comedians along the way..
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This was also laid out in the book, One of Conan's managers basically starting planting fake news & escalating it to the internet.
He thought going viral & the internet would sway NBC in kicking out Leno. It backfired when NBC sided with Leno, because everyone was ganging up on him.

inm8num2 said:
Conan made a funny last night:
The Olympics start airing tonight on NBC. It's very cool. That's right, NBC has the Olympics. It's a big deal.

NBC will finally get to show somebody who is OK with passing the torch.
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He still isn't over it? Even though he found out he was the one who forced Leno out when Leno was #1, he got a fat payday from NBC to leave & has more control at TBS then he would ever had in NBC.
 
See You Next Wednesday said:
This is all bullshit. The Late Night Wars book laid it all out in detail.

NBC wanted to put Leno on 11:30 & push Conan back half an hour to stop the rating bleeding. This was not set in stone & they might have backed down, but Conan became a drama queen when he heard of it & basically made an ultimatum to NBC, fire Leno or me.
Conan balked at this & at the last second quit himself.
Thinking ABC or Fox would quickly scoop him up (boy was he ever wrong).




This was also laid out in the book, One of Conan's managers basically starting planting fake news & escalating it to the internet.
He thought going viral & the internet would sway NBC in kicking out Leno. It backfired when NBC sided with Leno, because everyone was ganging up on him.



He still isn't over it? Even though he found out he was the one who forced Leno out when Leno was #1, he got a fat payday from NBC to leave & has more control at TBS then he would ever had in NBC.
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I read the book and I don't remember Conan telling NBC to fire Leno. NBC made the deal with Leno to give him a show at 11:35pm first. Leno agreed with a handshake without even calling Conan to talk about it. That sounds like it's set in stone. And I don't recall Conan "hearing" about this new time slot. He was told by NBC after they made the deal with Leno. Conan's contract didn't include a time slot. NBC can put his show at anytime.
 
Hadoken said:
I read the book and I don't remember Conan telling NBC to fire Leno. NBC made the deal with Leno to give him a show at 11:35pm first. Leno agreed with a handshake without even calling Conan to talk about it. That sounds like it's set in stone. And I don't recall Conan "hearing" about this new time slot. He was told by NBC after they made the deal with Leno. Conan's contract didn't include a time slot. NBC can put his show at anytime.
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Why does Leno have to ask for Conan's permission? Conan still had the Tonight Show name. Who in God's name could've thought Conan would be so pissy about a 30 minute difference? Even if the 30 minute lead-in with Leno didn't work out, Conan went on a crazy tirade instead of trying to ride the wave. It's show business, shit happens. Ride it out and if things are still bad, the company will make another move and hopefully fix it. But instead, he chose to quit.

It's also not Leno's company and it's not his job to ask for Conan's permission or calling him to break the news or ask him if it's okay. NBC were his employer, it's that fucking simple. They break the news, not Leno.

Leno couldn't breach his contract and leave NBC just as much as NBC couldn't afford letting him leave. Why do people fail to realize this? Leno had NO control or power over what was going on.
 
AlphaSnake said:
Why does Leno have to ask for Conan's permission? Conan still had the Tonight Show name. Who in God's name could've thought Conan would be so pissy about a 30 minute difference? Even if the 30 minute lead-in with Leno didn't work out, Conan went on a crazy tirade instead of trying to ride the wave. It's show business, shit happens. Ride it out and if things are still bad, the company will make another move and hopefully fix it. But instead, he chose to quit.
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he thought the tonight show still had a legacy, he didn't get that it died when carson left.

people just need to understand the mindsets that the two had. conan put the show on a pedestal and had a shittier contract, and leno is an insecure workaholic who hides in closets to listen in on meetings.
 
I still think Conan was right though in that having all 3 of them on wasn't going to work even if he accepted the push back. It would have been really shitty for Fallon as well trying to develop an audience at that late of a time slot.
 
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