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[GDJustin]

I still feel like a lot of the people defending HL2 in this topic just haven't played some of the games they claim HL2 is better than.

Games with recharging health aren't challenging? I'm pretty OK at Halo (level 32 in ranked play), and I died 48 times just getting through the first level on Legendary. Look, I can prove it:

http://www.bungie.net/Stats/GameStatsCampaignHalo3.aspx?gameid=2331036&player=ErrorJustin

That's some God Mode, eh?

 

[KTallguy]

Err, Gears actually IS all about cover. That's the point of the game.

That's true. I don't think Gears is bad, don't get me wrong. It's an awesome, great, fun, challenging game. I guess that I've just been weened on PC games and I can't get used to the fact that I can just stand still behind a rock for 10 seconds and be back up to full strength. I don't think it's "unrealistic", I just think that it's easy.

I still feel like a lot of the people defending HL2 in this topic just haven't played some of the games they claim HL2 is better than.

Games with recharging health aren't challenging? I'm pretty OK at Halo (level 32 in ranked play), and I died 48 times just getting through the first level on Legendary. Look, I can prove it:

http://www.bungie.net/Stats/GameStatsCampaignHalo3.aspx?gameid=2331036&player=ErrorJustin

That's some God Mode, eh?

I think that it's challenging, but in a different way.
I like the rush of running away and jumping at health packs.
It's a great feeling to go into a battle with 30 health and manage to scrape by with 11 health left, with the reward of a few med kits beckoning around the corner.
It's a great, euphoric feeling that I miss when I play recharging health games.
Just my preference. I do enjoy recharging health games. Gears was excellent

 

[dark10x]

That's true. I don't think Gears is bad, don't get me wrong. It's an awesome, great, fun, challenging game. I guess that I've just been weened on PC games and I can't get used to the fact that I can just stand still behind a rock for 10 seconds and be back up to full strength. I don't think it's "unrealistic", I just think that it's easy.

*shrug*

I was also weened on PC games. I've played FAR more FPS on the PC than every console combined. I suppose my tastes have simply changed.

 

[pj]

For me, HL2 is an exception. Most games with finite health do not handle it well. I still prefer recharging, but in HL2, finite health was perfectly acceptable.

Because there's so many health packs that it's basically a recharging system. I don't think I ever went into a battle with less than 80% health in hl2, ep1, or ep2

Non recharging health makes sense in a game like tf2, where recharging health would make medics practically useless, and the game more of a camp-fest, but in single player only stuff like hl2, it should be recharging. It would streamline the game, removing the tedious health pack hunt, which never gave me a rush because I always knew there were health packs somewhere nearby.

It would also make the game easier for level designers. They wouldn't have to worry about creating plausible spaces for health packs to be laying around, and they would always be able to design encounters knowing how much health the player has

 

[MrPing1000]

I still feel like a lot of the people defending HL2 in this topic just haven't played some of the games they claim HL2 is better than.

Games with recharging health aren't challenging? I'm pretty OK at Halo (level 32 in ranked play), and I died 48 times just getting through the first level on Legendary. Look, I can prove it:

http://www.bungie.net/Stats/GameStatsCampaignHalo3.aspx?gameid=2331036&player=ErrorJustin

That's some God Mode, eh?

Theres a difference between challenging and stupidly hard to the point of being rediculously unfun.

 

[chespace]

*shrug*

I was also weened on PC games. I've played FAR more FPS on the PC than every console combined. I suppose my tastes have simply changed.

Same here.

The thing with HL2's gameplay is that it is very much a continuation of the platform it was built upon -- Quake engine and so by extension, its gameplay. The gunplay feels stilted because it's outdated game design coupled with bad AI.

The sad irony here is that the original HL set the bar on FPS AI with its relentless Marines. Having been in game development now for almost 2 years, I won't presume it was an easy task (or even possible) to port AI code over from HL into Source, but damn, they set the bar!

 

[Graphics Horse]

Because there's so many health packs that it's basically a recharging system. I don't think I ever went into a battle with less than 80% health in hl2, ep1, or ep2

Also, the amount of medkits supplied is dynamic based on your health or performance, from what they say in the episode 2 commentary.

 

[MrPing1000]

HL2 ai has always been a bit of a strange one to me too. I'd say HL1 is on the whole better in that department.

 

[pj]

Also, the amount of medkits supplied is dynamic based on your health or performance, from what they say in the episode 2 commentary.

Yeah, the contents of crates are usually based on what you need most. But there are still tons of placed medkits just laying around

 

[KTallguy]

Same here.

The thing with HL2's gameplay is that it is very much a continuation of the platform it was built upon -- Quake engine and so by extension, its gameplay. The gunplay feels stilted because it's outdated game design coupled with bad AI.

The sad irony here is that the original HL set the bar on FPS AI with its relentless Marines. Having been in game development now for almost 2 years, I won't presume it was an easy task (or even possible) to port AI code over from HL into Source, but damn, they set the bar!

I really don't agree. I think that the gunplay in HL2 is lots of fun. Certain weapons lack punch, such as the standard assault rifle, but the combine rifle is really meaty and fun to shoot, as is the crossbow launcher. Also, I found the AI to be very challenging and interesting. I never saw the AI ever do something weird or out of place, not once. The soldiers flanked and surrounded me, the hunter's AI was excellent, and zombies had some interesting wrinkles.

 

[beelzebozo]

. . . plus the games just rule

 

[GDJustin]

Theres a difference between challenging and stupidly hard to the point of being rediculously unfun.

So wait... Halo isn't too EASY because of recharging health, it's too hard?

I guess I can't keep up with the logic in this topic

 

[Jirotrom]

I really don't agree. I think that the gunplay in HL2 is lots of fun. Certain weapons lack punch, such as the standard assault rifle, but the combine rifle is really meaty and fun to shoot, as is the crossbow launcher. Also, I found the AI to be very challenging and interesting. I never saw the AI ever do something weird or out of place, not once. The soldiers flanked and surrounded me, the hunter's AI was excellent, and zombies had some interesting wrinkles.

the combine rifle is probably one of my favorite weapons in all FPS games.

 

[saelz8]

Gunplay appeal is always going to be a personal preference. My favorite gunplay is in Counter-Strike, even with Michael Booth's bots, if that's a prerequisite. Half-Life weaponry feeling weak or not would also fall under the same.

The AI in the games are tuned to their settings and game mechanics/weapon dynamics, comparing very different games would be somewhat futile when you have to take into account level design, friendly NPC's and physics affected objects such as crates, chairs, boxes. What works in one game, doesn't work in others.

That said UT3 BOTS > ALL. Godlike! Fear them! (Download the demo and see for yourself, play VCTF)

 

[proposition]

I like the gunplay in Half-Life 2. And the level design is the best I've come across in an FPS, it's simply exquisite.

 

[KTallguy]

the combine rifle is probably one of my favorite weapons in all FPS games.

I wish it had more ammo.

Honestly I wish that I was shooting that gun more. I love that gun. *THUMP THUMP THUMP* *AAaaRRRRRRAGHH*

In Half Life 2, you're not really shooting as much as in other FPS, which is a shame, in a sense, as the shooting parts are really fun.

So wait... Halo isn't too EASY because of recharging health, it's too hard?

I guess I can't keep up with the logic in this topic

No, it's basically a delicate balance. It's like "oh let's make this guy kill you in 2 hits, because you can just duck behind a pillar and recharge all your health, anyway."

I'm not saying that's how Halo 3 is, but I abhor that kind of difficulty "balance".

Could someone explain what's so special about the AI in HL1?
From what I remember, I didn't see anything particularly smart about them.

They were amazing back in the day, they'd actually flush you out with grenades, and use team tactics. Pretty rare when the game was first released.

 

[fistfulofmetal]

Could someone explain what's so special about the AI in HL1?
From what I remember, I didn't see anything particularly smart about them.

 

[Slavik81]

Could someone explain what's so special about the AI in HL1?
From what I remember, I didn't see anything particularly smart about them.

Flanking and grenades.

 

[beelzebozo]

me neither. i just remember them being mildly indestructible, throwing a lot of grenades, and being well protected in clusters behind barriers. but i don't pay much mind to good or bad a.i., so long as it doesn't interfere with my fun

 

[gregor7777]

Flanking and grenades.

QFT.

AI like the marines or whatever they were called in HL1 was groundbreaking for it's time.

Playing through now you might not notice, it's been copied in every FPS game since.

 

[Captain Glanton]

. . . plus the games just rule

Thank God someone said it.

Although I'm still waiting on my patch so that I can play TF2 without constantly restarting my 360.

 

[pj]

I wish it had more ammo.

Honestly I wish that I was shooting that gun more. I love that gun. *THUMP THUMP THUMP* *AAaaRRRRRRAGHH*

Yeah, that gun rules. It's kind of a power weapon, which is why they only let you carry 3 clips. I found that I would rarely use that gun, even though I liked it, because I was afraid of running out of ammo, but then I'd end up finding tons of ammo for it when it was already full.

Use it freely, the ammo will come

 

[Druz]

Episode 2's AI is pretty good. I still don't know what the fuck people are smoking when they say Halo has good AI.

 

[pj]

Thank God someone said it.

Although I'm still waiting on my patch so that I can play TF2 without constantly restarting my 360.

Why do you have to restart your 360?

Do you get the thing were the loading bar fills up 95% and then just hangs? If so, you just have to wait until it times out, which it eventually will

 

[Nabster92]

Has anyone here had a similar problem to me? Whenever I try to play Portal as soon as I walk through the first portal the game crashes saying something like hl2.exe has encountered a problem and had to shut down.

I even just reformatted my computer after this happened and after redownloading it again through steam, the same thing happens in the same place. The steam diagnostic thing says that everything seems to pass all the tests so theres no problems there.

Same thing happens when I try Team Fortress 2 as well right when its about to get into a game. Though I haven't tried that again yet since I just reformatted today.

can anyone here help with this?

Turn off your anti-virus. Avast gives me a load of grief with Steam.

Well I just reformatted my laptop and so I have no anti-virus software yet aside from just windows firewall, and I don't think I'm supposed to turn that off while connected to the campus internet. Just tried to run episode 2 and it crashed before even loading the screen saying some error message about some point of memory referencing to another that can't be "read". Would that also be related to the portal and TF2 crashing problems or is this another story in itself?

 

[Slavik81]

Episode 2's AI is pretty good. I still don't know what the fuck people are smoking when they say Halo has good AI.

I don't know... The hunters seemed to get stuck inside of buildings for me.

 

[Angst]

OK, so when did this thread turn from a discussion of the orange box into some kind of "my fps is better than yours!!!111"-thread?

 

[Angst]

Well I just reformatted my laptop and so I have no anti-virus software yet aside from just windows firewall, and I don't think I'm supposed to turn that off while connected to the campus internet. Just tried to run episode 2 and it crashed before even loading the screen saying some error message about some point of memory referencing to another that can't be "read". Would that also be related to the portal and TF2 crashing problems or is this another story in itself?

Have you tried validating your game cache? "verify integrity of game cache" in steam.

Also, are you using the latest drivers for your graphics card/soundcard/mobo, newest bios etc?

 

[traveler]

OK, so when did this thread turn from a discussion of the orange box into some kind of "my fps is better than yours!!!111"-thread?

Seriously. Each series has their strengths; let's just leave it at that.

 

[Jirotrom]

I wish it had more ammo.

Honestly I wish that I was shooting that gun more. I love that gun. *THUMP THUMP THUMP* *AAaaRRRRRRAGHH*

In Half Life 2, you're not really shooting as much as in other FPS, which is a shame, in a sense, as the shooting parts are really fun.

.

I'm obliged to agree, that gun is so awesome yet so limited, I always savor it's use wishing I could just unload at all times:lol

 

[Nabster92]

Have you tried validating your game cache? "verify integrity of game cache" in steam.

Also, are you using the latest drivers for your graphics card/soundcard/mobo, newest bios etc?

Well I did validate portal's game cache right after it first crashed but not after redownloading it after I reformatted. Doing it for episode 2 right now, but I don't think it will help anything much. And my drivers should all be updated, as far as I know. What does defragmenting the cache files do? Would that possibly solve anything?

 

[dark10x]

Seriously. Each series has their strengths; let's just leave it at that.

Yeah, it's pretty clear that everyone is pretty much stating preferences now. What one person may love another may hate, it seems.

Can we at least agree that both games are of equally high quality?

 

[Chairman Yang]

The problem is, the designer will never have an idea of what sort of condition the player will be in when they reach a segment and will be unable to plan for it. A segment that is cake when the player has full health could be nearly impossible when they have 10 health. I fully believe that the reliance on quicksaves and finite health can and does have a negative impact on scenario design.

Simple solution--the designer tops up the player's health before a big encounter. Half-Life 2 does this a lot.

The thing is, with a recharging health system, every encounter has to be designed around the player being at full health. With a traditional health system, you can design encounters like that (by placing health before big encounters) and also have sections where you expect the player to be weak (unless they've played extremely carefully, in which case they're rewarded by having more health than they would normally).

 

[traveler]

Yeah, it's pretty clear that everyone is pretty much stating preferences now. What one person may love another may hate, it seems.

Can we at least agree that both games are of equally high quality?

Easily. There are definitely things that I prefer in each series more than the other, but they're both at the absolutely uppermost tier of gaming. (And, just to throw in my own preference for some perspective on my opinion, I had always considered myself much more of a Halo fan, but I will say that, to me, Ep. 2 was a better sp experience than any Halo campaign, but I could see how some would disagree having to come to love and appreciate both series.)

 

[Fallout-NL]

the combine rifle is probably one of my favorite weapons in all FPS games.

I detest it, like I do most weapons that have no ammo available.

 

[Jaded Alyx]

I detest it, like I do most weapons that have no ammo available.

This is pretty damn correct.

EDIT: Not only that, but the ammo you do get, disappears in no time at all!

 

[The Lamonster]

This is pretty damn correct.

EDIT: Not only that, but the ammo you do get, disappears in no time at all!

I believe that's the point - the weapon is ridiculously powerful.

And speaking of ammo, have you ever been to a place called Nova Prospekt? I heard there's a few combine rifles there to pick up.

 

[Jaded Alyx]

I believe that's the point - the weapon is ridiculously powerful.

And speaking of ammo, have you ever been to a place called Nova Prospekt? I heard there's a few combine rifles there to pick up.

Yeh, well no shit. You pretty much NEED the rifle in there!

 

[Jirotrom]

I detest it, like I do most weapons that have no ammo available.

but if there was alot of ammo my love for it would lower itself due to overuse. Can't you see...

 

[Instigator]

Hey, any area in Episode 1 or 2 like inside that tower in HL2?

Yeah, I know the thing gets

Spoiler

destroyed

, but it was by far the most interesting place in the whole game. HL2 also limited the way you explored it. Then 30 minutes later, the game

Spoiler

ends.

I wouldn't mind seeing more of the same.

 

[traveler]

Hey, any area in Episode 1 or 2 like inside that tower in HL2?

Yeah, I know the thing gets

Spoiler

destroyed

, but it was by far the most interesting place in the whole game. HL2 also limited the way you explored it. Then 30 minutes later, the game

Spoiler

ends.

I wouldn't mind seeing more of the same.

You start off in the very same tower in Ep. 1.

 

[Jaded Alyx]

Hey, any area in Episode 1 or 2 like inside that tower in HL2?

Yeah, I know the thing gets

Spoiler

destroyed

, but it was by far the most interesting place in the whole game. HL2 also limited the way you explored it. Then 30 minutes later, the game

Spoiler

ends.

I wouldn't mind seeing more of the same.

Heh..

Spoiler

Episode 1 has an area....just like it!

Edit: D'oh!

 

[Kabouter]

You start off in the very same tower in Ep. 1.

Spoiler

No you don't.
You start outside it.

 

[traveler]

Spoiler

No you don't.
You start outside it.

Well, if you want to get specific,

Spoiler

the opening cutscene takes place in it.

 

[Instigator]

You start off in the very same tower in Ep. 1.

Ah because it's back to Alyx's perspective, I see.

Edit: whoa, looks like it's a yes and no.

 

[Dr_Cogent]

Gotta say I am very happy with The Orange Box. Finally getting to play through HL2 with no stuttering. Unfortunately I have quite a bit to go still to get where I left off when playing on the PC.

 

[robot]

Picked up the Orange Box on the 360 this weekend - I've never played anything Half Life before so I thought now would be as good a time as any. Probably wont play much TF2, but for $60 there seems to be a crazy amount of game packed in here.

Started off with Portal, just because I've been reading so many good things about it, and the whole concept sounds really cool. I wound up playing for about 2 hours, such an amazing experience so far. It's almost like playing a new genre for the first time. Gonna suck once I finish it, I really hope they release more levels.

I then moved on to Half Life 2, and holy crap what a game. One thing that immediately stood out was the amount of thinking involved getting through some of these levels. I'm used to the same ol' Point A to Point B with a few shootouts mixed in, but this just felt so much different. I felt like I was playing a science experiment at some points...adding weight to scales and shit. I know most of the puzzles are very basic, but it's just a nice change of pace to actually have to think when getting through a door. Just got the gravity gun btw. The action is starting to pick up at this point, but there were some parts, especially on that boat thing - that were pretty intense.

 

[Jaded Alyx]

Well, if you want to get specific,

Spoiler

the opening cutscene takes place in it.

Sorry but,

Spoiler

the opening cutscene takes place on top of it

Just got the gravity gun btw.

Ah..then you must be in or around that quiet peaceful little town

 

[Kabouter]

Well, if you want to get specific,

Spoiler

the opening cutscene takes place in it.

Spoiler

There's a difference between cutscene and game though . And the opening cutscene is on top of it

 

[traveler]

Spoiler

There's a difference between cutscene and game though . And the opening cutscene is on top of it

Spoiler

You can see the edges of the tower surrounding you, so you're technically still in it and I said "you start off in", not "you start playing in."