Support NeoGAF

[HomerSimpson-Man]

Is this a bad thing, though? The game got average scores in the USA. Game is pretty mediocre. No wonder Square Enix launched this game in NA first. Last time Square launched a game first in NA was Secret of Evermore and that was mediocre too.

Wasn't Secret of Evermore from Square USA in the first place? That's probably the reason why it was here first. No translation needed.

 

[flarkminator]

Is this a bad thing, though? The game got average scores in the USA. Game is pretty mediocre. No wonder Square Enix launched this game in NA first. Last time Square launched a game first in NA was Secret of Evermore and that was mediocre too.

Hey Secrete of Evermore was great! I liked that game! I know I'm in the way fucking minority as that is concerned so don't even bother making fun of me

 

[Mandoric]

And this recycling is just not going to work at the start of next-gen when there's NOTHING TO RECYCLE ^^;

I wouldn't be surprised at a reuse of 2d assets through the early next-gen, especially in the SRPG field. 3d and voice are pretty much out, though.

As for the underlying pattern, though, I think it's to some degree cyclical and a new generation will spark newly-impressive FMV lightshows. What happens after that depends more on world economic trends, and the rise of other genres; the presumption that "the average American gamer won't play Japanese RPGs" doesn't seem as solid to me, in the face of, say, FF7, as "the average American gamer is more hyped up about things like GTA right now"; I'd also expect to see a decent contingent of them on the X360 if it keeps a similar worldwide sales profile to the XBox, though fewer if it does well and nearly none if it completely fails.

 

[Bebpo]

Is this a bad thing, though? The game got average scores in the USA. Game is pretty mediocre. No wonder Square Enix launched this game in NA first. Last time Square launched a game first in NA was Secret of Evermore and that was mediocre too.

No it's definitely a good thing.

But it's just an example of ARPGs not selling any better in Japan. I mean unless the Japanese gamers are reading US magazines (I dunno, maybe they are?), Famitsu gave it a decent score so being an SE game you would've expected pretty decent 1st day sales before everyone finds out it sucks.

 

[Bebpo]

I wouldn't be surprised at a reuse of 2d assets through the early next-gen, especially in the SRPG field. 3d and voice are pretty much out, though.

As for the underlying pattern, though, I think it's to some degree cyclical and a new generation will spark newly-impressive FMV lightshows. What happens after that depends more on world economic trends, and the rise of other genres; the presumption that "the average American gamer won't play Japanese RPGs" doesn't seem as solid to me, in the face of, say, FF7, as "the average American gamer is more hyped up about things like GTA right now"; I'd also expect to see a decent contingent of them on the X360 if it keeps a similar worldwide sales profile to the XBox, though fewer if it does well and nearly none if it completely fails.

I think a FF7 remake would do wonders for getting people to talk about rpgs again in the US. But would it get people to start buying other less well known rpgs? Hmmm, maybe.

 

[DCharlie]

what about episodic RPGs where the world is consistant, the main story is consistant, but the monthly releases are not?

Something like Star Trek / Battle star for instance, where you have a small containted story that is distinct in itself whilst set in the parameters of the overal story/conflict?

I know there are inherent dangers with the business model (a couple of "bad" episodes and you are in trouble/low userbase initially would tie you to a project for a specific amount of time/how do you count for people joining x years down the line), but i believe we'll get it some day.

I'd expect it's only a matter of time before we get our first video game "soap opera" style game, and it would seem to make sense that it would be an RPG.

Hell, imagine if the AI/branching is at a point where characters are doing things totally different from soap to soap? You could have the same characters, same situations, yet due to various interactions, things could be so much more different.

hey ho, just talking shite again....

 

[G-Fex]

all your rpg are belong to Atlus.

 

[Dead]

what about episodic RPGs where the world is consistant, the main story is consistant, but the monthly releases are not?

Something like Star Trek / Battle star for instance, where you have a small containted story that is distinct in itself whilst set in the parameters of the overal story/conflict?

I know there are inherent dangers with the business model (a couple of "bad" episodes and you are in trouble/low userbase initially would tie you to a project for a specific amount of time/how do you count for people joining x years down the line), but i believe we'll get it some day.

I'd expect it's only a matter of time before we get our first video game "soap opera" style game, and it would seem to make sense that it would be an RPG.

Hell, imagine if the AI/branching is at a point where characters are doing things totally different from soap to soap? You could have the same characters, same situations, yet due to various interactions, things could be so much more different.

hey ho, just talking shite again....

Didn't Capcom try something similar on Dreamcast? El Dorado something? And more importantly didn't it TANK?

 

[Mandoric]

I think a FF7 remake would do wonders for getting people to talk about rpgs again in the US. But would it get people to start buying other less well known rpgs? Hmmm, maybe.

To be honest, I wasn't even thinking of a FF7 remake in itself, although that's drawing hype even as a FMV demo unlikely to ever be produced as a game. More that it's practically a laundry list of the things that people said before and after would never appeal to the US market, from the prettyboys to the big eyes to the talking animal sidekicks and "lifestream". Thus, it's kind of apparent in my view, especially as FF7 -didn't- hit as part of the big mainstream anime wave, that the plot conventions aren't as much of a blow to the US sales as the flashy side of the genre hitting a point of diminishing returns, and this no longer being able to support the obscure stuff as well either.

So, yeah, to sell well here they need a new "gateway drug", and a FF7 remake would be eminently suited to that position, but I also think that any decently-executed effort as impressive as FF7 was back in '97 would suffice.

 

[jaundicejuice]

all your rpg are belong to Atlus.

 

[DCharlie]

"Didn't Capcom try something similar on Dreamcast? El Dorado something? And more importantly didn't it TANK?"

yeah, but the big think with it was : it was pretty average to start with.

Imagine something set in a world like FFVII remake style settings - you create the world once, model the characters once, then you have downloadable episodic content.

Square could leverage the fact that FFVII is a big IP , getting people to subscribe to monthly updates. I mean, someone MUST be looking at this interms of being a possible revenue stream you'd have thought.

A living soap opera with characters people are already familiar with.

 

[Mrbob]

yeah, but the big think with it was : it was pretty average to start with.

Imagine something set in a world like FFVII remake style settings - you create the world once, model the characters once, then you have downloadable episodic content.

Square could leverage the fact that FFVII is a big IP , getting people to subscribe to monthly updates. I mean, someone MUST be looking at this interms of being a possible revenue stream you'd have thought.

A living soap opera with characters people are already familiar with.

Tifi getting knocked up, having to wait 3 months to find out if the daddy is Cloud or Vincent. Oh yeah the possibilities.

 

[Ristamar]

I'm surprised MMORPGs haven't been mentioned in this thread yet. I think a lot of casual RPG fans have weighed their options and decided to ditch the single-player RPG experience in exchange for online questing with their buddies while slaying newbz and scoring phat l00t.

 

[flarkminator]

I'm surprised MMORPGs haven't been mentioned in this thread yet. I think a lot of casual RPG fans have weighed their options and decided to ditch the single-player RPG experience in exchange for online questing with their buddies while slaying newbz and scoring phat l00t.

The question in the table though, is the life-line of the JRPG. And I have to wonder how much the MMORPG penetrates the JPRG culture.

 

[jett]

I used to be a pretty big RPG gamer, but in recent years, I realized I just wanted more action out of my games. People used to say "well, isn't every game an RPG?" since you're always playing the role of *someone.* In a way, I think that games are moving in that direction, except its more literal. They are actually incorporating RPG *mechanics.* I've been enjoying myself a lot more playing action-RPGs or RPGs action/adventure games with RPG elements than I have traditional RPGs. There's little holding these games back in terms of long dialogues or cutscenes. Instead, you get a lot of action, combat which usually requires some thought/skill, and the character-upgrading/experience system that makes RPGs so addictive in the first place.

I can still stomach a traditional RPG here and there, but I've been letting the vast majority of them stay off my radar for awhile now.

I feel pretty much the same. Just like Belfast, I crave for action and direct, real-time input in my games nowadays(and I used to be a huge RPG fan in the 32bit days). This gen is a complete letdown RPG-wise...

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

Tifi getting knocked up, having to wait 3 months to find out if the daddy is Cloud or Vincent. Oh yeah the possibilities.

So it would be like the RPG that never ends, or never ends in one game. Kind of like the wait for the next installment something like Harry Potter or of a monthly comic book series. Sounds pretty cool.

 

[Ristamar]

The question in the table though, is the life-line of the JRPG. And I have to wonder how much the MMORPG penetrates the JPRG culture.

Good point. Does anyone have Japan sales numbers for FFXI, WoW, Everquest, etc, just for the sake of curiosity?

 

[Tellaerin]

I'm looking forward to it. But I still don't think it's quite what I'm getting at. As far as I gleen from impressions, the exploration is more about the size of the world. What I want is an rpg with a jump button, and not that FFX-2 (and others) context badly-animated, clunky jumping. An rpg, where instead of crossing a mountain by taking the handily, gently inclined mountain slope, you have to clambour and climb over it proper.

Also (this goes for almost all games actually) less bloody mutants please. I would like, just once, a decent-budget rpg, with a well-written, political based plot, that only involves human enemies, no wolfs, no dragons, no floating eyes with wings. Instead of an overpowered boss, the final battle would be an rpg take on having several thousand soldiers clashing in combat. No time travel, no other dimension, no dark power sealed for a thousand generations that's about to be unleashed. Hell, for a real challenge, how about no magic in the game world at all. Basically strip away everything that has become conventionalised about the genre, to reinvigorate it.

That sounds absolutely horrid.

You'd strip out everything that makes sf and fantasy interesting and replace it with... what? No magic, no exotic creatures, nothing fantastic whatsoever, just a bunch of political infighting and guys running around in armor? 'Gladiator: The RPG'? Ugh. I'm sure there's somebody out there (in addition to yourself, of course) who would love it, but if that ever became the dominant breed of RPG, the genre would be dead to me.

 

[Rhindle]

Western rpgs are doing fine because the western gaming audience is willing to play a western looking rpg by a western developer. How many people who own an xbox would've been willing to buy Shin Megami Tensei 9 over KoTOR if SMT9 had come to the US? Unless you want Japanese teams to start using western artists to do all their models/textures, people will be able to differentiate from a western and eastern rpg when looking at a box and I don't see people buying Jrpgs over Western ones anytime soon in the US.

You actually answered your own question right there. Involving western artists and writers is precisely what needs to happen. Pubslishers can't keep on blindly tailoring their games for Japanese sensibilities, and expect them to do well in the West. That only worked when western gamers had no choices, and anime/Nippophilia were at their height. Given that RPGs are so character/story driven, you're stuck in the same niche as all other anime-flavored products unless you explicitly try and build a product for international appeal.

Kingdom Hearts actually pointed the industry in the right direction, and was very successful. I'm surprised other publishers haven't borrowed a clue from it.

 

[jaundicejuice]

The last Japanese Rpg I played and actually enjoyed before Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne was Chrono Cross. I've played Final Fantasy X, Shadow Hearts 2, Tales of Symphonia, Baten Kaitos, and a few others, I simply did not enjoy them and I used to be a fanatic for the genre. Maybe I burnt myself on the games by playing too many in the genre, or maybe it's just that none really delivered a quality equal or greater than past experiences, either way, it wasn't until Nocturne, and then Digital Devil Saga that I was literally floored by an Jrpg.

In many ways both Megaten games are very traditional Jrpg's, they still have random encounters and are turn based games, but they have enough twists gameplay-wise with the demon recruiting in one, the mantra learning in the other and character customisation in both that kept me playing. It really helps that both are extremely different, from the Jrpgs that I've played, thematically. One begins with the end of the world, the other has you stranded in some hellish wasteland caught up in an insane battle for your own salvation...not your typical light hearted tales of plucky spikey haired, saucered eyed teens/hermaphodites off to stop the machinations of some evil empire. Hell, Nocturne is like a Western Rpg in some ways because you get to choose your path, albeit in a limited fashion, throughout the game.

Atlus essentially lured me back to the genre with Nocturne and DDS, I've since bought a couple of Rpgs, Atelier Iris, Star Ocean 3, but they just don't do it for me the same way Atlus' games did. I'm kind of interested in Dragon Quest VIII, Grandia III and a fewothers, but none have me salivating the same way Digital Devil Saga 2 does. Except perhaps that Devil Summoner Atlus is releasing on the PS2 in Japan, that looks amazing.

Anyhow, the genre is pretty damn saturated. If developers can't come up with fresh ideas to keep the genre moving, then it deserves to become marginalised the way others like 2D side scrolling beat em ups, 2D fighters, mascot platformers and old school shooters have. Personally I'm glad some genres have become marginalised, no more Cool Spots, Yo Noids, or Aero the Acrobats flood our consoles, instead GTA clones and me too FPS's run rampant. The more thingschange the morethey stay the same I guess. Rpg's will never truely die out, but the mediocre majority may go the way of Weapon Lord, Bad Dudes, and the like.

 

[Bebpo]

You actually answered your own question right there. Involving western artists and writers is precisely what needs to happen. Pubslishers can't keep on blindly tailoring their games for Japanese sensibilities, and expect them to do well in the West. That only worked when western gamers had no choices, and anime/Nippophilia were at their height. Given that RPGs are so character/story driven, you're stuck in the same niche as all other anime-flavored products unless you explicitly try and build a product for international appeal.

Kingdom Hearts actually pointed the industry in the right direction, and was very successful. I'm surprised other publishers haven't borrowed a clue from it.

Umm, but then they'd just be western rpgs. Personally I think the idea of Japanese development teams working with Western talent and Western teams working with Japanese talent is a bit ridiculous.

I mean I play Western rpgs and enjoy them and I play Japanese rpgs and enjoy them. They're too seperate categories in the genre and both are enjoyable. No real reason to try to merge them. What makes Japanese rpgs unique from their Western counterparts are their art, music, writing, battle systems. It's not a question of better or worse but rather a different approach to things.

 

[DonasaurusRex]

I think its quite obvious the future of rpgs will be online. Kinda merges the personal experience that an action rpg of the single player flavor gives with that of the epic tale the full team, turn based rpg gives.

 

[mutsu]

I think its quite obvious the future of rpgs will be online. Kinda merges the personal experience that an action rpg of the single player flavor gives with that of the epic tale the full team, turn based rpg gives.

If all future RPGs are online, I will give up playing all future RPGs...

 

[jett]

mmorpgs are the bane of gaming. just no.

 

[Sea-Dragon]

If all future RPGs are online, I will give up playing all future RPGs...

I have to echo this sentiment... I love, wiith a frenzied look of half-demented zeal, the old single player turn-based RPGs... Xenogears, Chrono Cross, etc.. It has been with no small delight that I've played Arc the Lad: Twilight of the Spirits, Shadow Hearts 2, and Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne... these games almost feel like a special gift from the last of their kind, before everything is a damn World of Warcraft clone.

MMOs are fine, and dandy.... let the masses have their 100+ Halo and WoW and Bf1942 clones, but for God's sakes please don't take away the single player turn-based RPGs.

 

[DonasaurusRex]

they dont neccesarily have to be massively online, they could be like diablo for instance with co op online play/pvp when someone wants it whats wrong with that. In the very least i think alot of rpg players will be looking for rpgs with updated content, especialy strat rpgs.

 

[flarkminator]

they dont neccesarily have to be massively online, they could be like diablo for instance with co op online play/pvp when someone wants it whats wrong with that. In the very least i think alot of rpg players will be looking for rpgs with updated content, especialy strat rpgs.

As much as I love Diablo II, dont' for a second think that is the standard I want my JRPG's to live up to...

 

[chaostrophy]

One big, relatively untapped market for JRPGs is American females, given the exploding popularity of shoujo manga in the US. A dev team could possibly get Clamp or Kaori Yuki or some other shoujo artist to do scenario and character design. Or at least make the game more attractive to girls by including stronger female characters and scaling back the cheesecake and damsels in distress.

Another thing that would help is to do whatever it takes to get some decent RPGs out near the beginning of a console's life cycle. Use middleware, make it relatively short with a cliffhanger ending, just make it fun to play and somewhat technically impressive. FromSoft's Enchant Arm looks to be a good step in this direction, hopefully the game comes out okay.

 

[Rhindle]

Umm, but then they'd just be western rpgs. Personally I think the idea of Japanese development teams working with Western talent and Western teams working with Japanese talent is a bit ridiculous.

I mean I play Western rpgs and enjoy them and I play Japanese rpgs and enjoy them. They're too seperate categories in the genre and both are enjoyable. No real reason to try to merge them. What makes Japanese rpgs unique from their Western counterparts are their art, music, writing, battle systems. It's not a question of better or worse but rather a different approach to things.

Well, if your question is whether JRPGs can survive in their strictly traditional form, with all the linear/turn-based/CGI-heavy anime conventions, the answer is no. That form is played out in the US and waning in Japan. The industry has to evolve, and it might as well do so in ways that give its games a better shot at regaining mass-appeal in the West.

Square seems to get it. KH pointed the way, and FFXII is clearly aimed at greater Western appeal. The other publishers sadly seem to remain mostly clueless.

 

[DonasaurusRex]

I was just using battle net as an example hold yer horses there buddy. I know its kinda hard for D2 to stand up now that its what 5 years later since the expansion pack. And it still one of the top rpg's today. I was just using D2 as an example of how most rpgs could have an online aspect added to them. I dont want to take away your lolitas with big eyes that somehow own every character in the game and replace them with a Zon that owns everything in the game. I was just saying D2/phantasy star online type deal could even work for a traditional group rpg. Yes even ones with lolitas with powerful hidden potential.

 

[flarkminator]

I was just using battle net as an example hold yer horses there buddy. I know its kinda hard for D2 to stand up now that its what 5 years later since the expansion pack. And it still one of the top rpg's today. I was just using D2 as an example of how most rpgs could have an online aspect added to them. I dont want to take away your lolitas with big eyes that somehow own every character in the game and replace them with a Zon that owns everything in the game. I was just saying D2/phantasy star online type deal could even work for a traditional group rpg. Yes even ones with lolitas with powerful hidden potential.

Ok, well, allow me to explain why in full detail why I don't want this to happen.


I
Hate
People.

I don't want them in my game with me.

 

[Synth_floyd]

My beef with JRPGs is that they all basically play the same except for the graphics and plot, using the same variant of the old Ultima engine (which was copied by Dragon Quest and later by Final Fantasy and then became the standard). Since they all play the same it's only the plot really that sets them apart and once you get tired of the usual JRPG trite and cliched plots all interest in the genre suddenly evaporates. The only RPG that I had fun with the last few years was Morrowind so I'm eagerly looking forward to Oblivion. JRPGs need to be less plot oriented and more gameplay oriented.

 

[DonasaurusRex]

Ok, well, allow me to explain why in full detail why I don't want this to happen.


I
Hate
People.

I don't want them in my game with me.

well for one you can play a million online games of D2 solo if you want just to further make that point. Im not talking about massively online here where you have no choice, im talking about online rpgs' where if you WANT you can go through the content with someone else. The whole point being the choice is yours like it is in D2 or Phantasy Star online. So i dont see what you are getting at if you are not being FORCED to deal with other people. Some people like online others like you for example dont, but what is your reasoning for not having an online ASPECT to future RPGS, why wouldnt players want to download more content? Why wouldnt a developer that wants to do more in the world they created want to support its creation with more content? Wheres the downside?

 

[Red Scarlet]

Big first post. I'll just wait till DQ9 and FF12 come out.

 

[flarkminator]

well for one you can play a million online games of D2 solo if you want just to further make that point. Im not talking about massively online here where you have no choice, im talking about online rpgs' where if you WANT you can go through the content with someone else. The whole point being the choice is yours like it is in D2 or Phantasy Star online. So i dont see what you are getting at if you are not being FORCED to deal with other people. Some people like online others like you for example dont, but what is your reasoning for not having an online ASPECT to future RPGS, why wouldnt players want to download more content? Why wouldnt a developer that wants to do more in the world they created want to support its creation with more content? Wheres the downside?

Because typically, and in the example you brought up with Diablo II, they REMOVE a whole aspect of he genre that makes it what it is. The NPC Interaction. My problem with people is that they don't talk like they do in books, they don't act like they do in movies. They say things like "Omg hax 4tw" and they use exploits. I'm not saying I don't play MMO's, (I put 34 days 12 hours into World of Warcraft) I'm saying that I play games like DDS, where the developer spends time developing people for me to play with.

 

[DonasaurusRex]

Because typically, and in the example you brought up with Diablo II, they REMOVE a whole aspect of he genre that makes it what it is. The NPC Interaction. My problem with people is that they don't talk like they do in books, they don't act like they do in movies. They say things like "Omg hax 4tw" and they use exploits. I'm not saying I don't play MMO's, (I put 34 days 12 hours into World of Warcraft) I'm saying that I play games like DDS, where the developer spends time developing people for me to play with.

wtf are you talking about??? For the last time im NOT talking about MMO's. D2 is NOT a MMO rpg , its an rpg that you can play online if you feel like it WHEN you feel like it. The NPC's in D2 has plenty of NPC interaction and its just single player. How is NPC interaction suffer hell even WoW has lots of NPC interaction, Id wager it has more quests than any JRPG thats EVER came out period. You didnt answer my question at all, i dunno what the hell that answers. Basically I argued people probably will want co op in the form of online play in rpgs in the future. ANd you said I dont like people and it makes the npc somehow less interactive. Somehow having another person playing the same game as you as AN OPTION changes the game? Thats like saying FFIII wouldnt be the same with another person because if I were online with another person playing FFIII the npc's wouldnt interact as much wtf??? These are complete stand alone rpgs with an option to play online OPTION.

 

[flarkminator]

wtf are you talking about??? For the last time im NOT talking about MMO's. D2 is NOT a MMO rpg , its an rpg that you can play online if you feel like it WHEN you feel like it. The NPC's in D2 has plenty of NPC interaction and its just single player. How is NPC interaction suffer hell even WoW has lots of NPC interaction, Id wager it has more quests than any JRPG thats EVER came out period. You didnt answer my question at all, i dunno what the hell that answers. Basically I argued people probably will want co op in the form of online play in rpgs in the future. ANd you said I dont like people and it makes the npc somehow less interactive. Somehow having another person playing the same game as you as AN OPTION changes the game? Thats like saying FFIII wouldnt be the same with another person because if I were online with another person playing FFIII the npc's wouldnt interact as much wtf??? These are complete stand alone rpgs with an option to play online OPTION.

Ok, to use your example of FFIII, what I'm talking about is characters like.
Celes, Locke, Sabin, Edgar....
Characters like that is what I'm talking about, in depth NPC character that are part of the story, you lose that apsect when you make a game like DII.

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

One of the things me and Sonarrat got to discussing a while back in a thread about niche RPGs that got released here reflects goes well with what Mutsu noted, (five Tales this generation alone for Japan), and what I noticed about people going goo-goo for SMT, Atelier Iris, etc.

1. Alot of Atlus, NIS, Squeenix, etc. hitting close to each other over here, with much more back home, leaving even guys like me who loves him some questing being cautious about hyping myself up about something on the horizon just from name and screenshots.

2. Five Tales, like 4 Megatens...I can imagine what a freshly minted salaryman with an RPG jones from childhood thinks after putting down huge Yen for his first apartment's monthly rent while strolling thru Super Potato or whatever it's called and seeing all that *possibly* tempting goodness begging for his 4800Y.

3. All that stuff hitting big with us NA RPG nuts? Old hat. SMT: bajillion spin-offs. Atelier Iris? 5 prequels. It's just not Teh Noo Hawtness for them that it is for us. Dude's 4800Y ends up going towards some gaming brickabrack, a DVD, and a cell-phone game.

Does that mean saturation? Possibly. I've already been talked into like 6 nichey RPGs this generation alone (gotta love those payraises and promotions); some worked out, some didn't. The thing that worries me is, with that nasty rumor of $60 games, me and lots others who are fans of all genres would have to cut back, adding to that to the fire. And imagining trying to sell anything for that amount from a $5 million+ developmental cycle that doesn't have a name like DQ or FF to the public at large sounds just about what you describe, Bebpo.

 

[Wafflecopter]

Non-games are the new games. Deal with it.

That's not true. Take off your fanboy tinted goggles.

 

[DonasaurusRex]

Ok, to use your example of FFIII, what I'm talking about is characters like.
Celes, Locke, Sabin, Edgar....
Characters like that is what I'm talking about, in depth NPC character that are part of the story, you lose that apsect when you make a game like DII.

wait you cant directly compare those two games I was using D2's online system as an example of WHAT most rpgs will offer in the future not how the game will be built. I dont see how you can compare D2 which is single char vs FFIII which is party based. Of course FFIII has more NPC's you control a party, and you could still put the game online, no one ever said you had to change the fact that its a party based npc driven game. Im just talkin bout options, online in D2 can be thought of as an option, you can see everything the game has to offer offline. And yet online brings another aspect to the game its just an extra. In the same way a group based JRPG life for instance Grandia could have an online aspect say duels where you pit parties against each other, or online quests that require more than one party to complete. And once again I think you are totally misunderstanding what Im saying. Celes, Locke, Sabin? ...wtf yeah who doesnt know them and making it so that you can play Celes, and I Sabin, and we do that at the same time screws up the game how???

 

[flarkminator]

Its cool man, we're just goign to have to agree to disagree.

 

[PC Gaijin]

Donosaurus a better example of what you're describing might be stuff like Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights. Single player RPGs with all the NPC interaction and story, but also playable online with other people if you want.

As for JRPGs they're played out and tired IMHO. Like others in this thread I used to be a big JRPG fan, but this gen has left me cold. The game mechanics need to evolve and JRPGs have become even more fruity than they were in the past, which I imagine is a big turnoff for a lot of Western gamers.

 

[demi]

Frankly, I think you're wrong about Shadow Hearts 3, and should probably die.

But that's just my opinion, of course.

 

[madara]

Good points all around but I think its just the times we live in. Japanese need to embrace games other then select few known brands and western market needs to get over just buying only ultra realistic or violent mandatory gun in my hand games The GTAs, Halos, or Maddens only seem to do well now. There is room for other genre instead making industry as whole look juvenile, perhaps new tech can change that someday. Anyway it just reinforces need for DQ8 do well this fall.

 

[Kurosaki Ichigo]

See how Y's VI bombed in USA. They want graphics, not superb-gameplay.

And so, most RPGs are sunk in a graphical spiral (my beloved tales included) losing its appeal for japanese and getting very little from USA.

 

[ziran]

i used to love rpgs but now play them less and less because there are so many average-bad ones i'm not prepared to waste 30-40+ hours of my life playing what becomes a chore. i think this is why jrpgs worldwide are in decline.

rpgs are an unusual beast, no matter how bad they are there is a strong desire to finish them. probably because of what you've invested in it, and here lies boring gameplay. the consequence of this is complete several bad rpgs and you end up saying no more.

another disturbing trend is the angst ridden teenager who moans at the player throughout the game. it's tedious. i don't want to play dawson's creek in a fantasy setting.

ffx killed japanese rpgs for me, after this, that was it. life's too short.

as for a solution, i don't know what would bring me back, but the way they're going i'm not going to start playing them again anytime soon.

 

[MrDaravon]

See how Y's VI bombed in USA. They want graphics, not superb-gameplay.

They weren't expecting Ys to sell that much were they though? No local places ever got in ANY copies past preorders, so I figured they just did a small Atlus-type run, sold about 40k.

 

[Gattsu25]

I wanted to buy Ys

but local brick and mortar stores would need to stock it first

 

[djtiesto]

You know, if they cut out the CG and voice acting, they'd save quite a bit of cash. These elements are completely unnecessary to making a good RPG - the best ones IMO didn't have all these fancy production values (I'm not a fan of overblown production values in games, it just takes something away from the experience, I can't explain it...). Just cut down the size of the games in half (from 40-50 hours to 25 or so hours), and concentrate on a good story with some original settings. You can have a great story without excess production values, as both Japanese and Western RPGs have proven in the past.

Keep the anime style, anime is still really popular in the US, and keep the fancy battle systems. Not everything needs to be an overblown 50 hour epic chock full of CG. And yeah it sucks RPGs aren't selling in Japan or even the US. But the fact that they get priced at $50 over here probably doesn't help any either, yet they tend to sell pretty well when cheaper.

And how could people say Japanese RPGs don't have any gameplay? Are we playing the same games? I think something like Nocturne is very deep with its fusion systems, or Atelier Iris with its alchemy systems, or Tales with its battle system. Certainly more than the majority of Western RPGs (specifically Fable and Jade Empire).

As long as they don't try to make them appeal to western gamers, it's all good. Even the most generic anime art >>>> the butt-ugly Jade Empire character designs. Although I agree they need to tone down the femboy stuff a bit.

 

[Optimistic]

Yeah, after FFX I no longer really have any interest in Japanese rpgs (and Chrono Trigger/FF6/7/8 are some of my favourite games). How to fix rpgs - get rid of random battles, eliminate angsty characters, do away with tedious plot cliches.

I'd love to see Square make an rpg set on earth, present day, with a semi-realistic plot, no random battles (perhaps do away with shitty turn based mechanics altogether) and characters that aren't as two dimensional as Sonic 1.

Or Sega could just make Shenmue 3. OR, Nintendo could publish another Earthbound game ffs.