The Great Ace Attorney 2 [Dai Gyakuten Saiban 2] |JP OT| Resolve to learn Japanese

G

GSR

Member
howdy everyone. it's time for the annual tradition of the japanese importers playing a new aa game and the rest of the fandom cursing our names for seven upon seven generations

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Dai Gyakuten Saiban 2: Naruhodou Ryuunosuke no Kakugo / The Great Ace Attorney 2: The Resolve of Ryuunosuke Naruhodou
Release Date: August 3rd, 2017 [Japan]
Director/writer: Shuu Takumi
Producer: Motohide Eshiro

Summary

It's been two years since we all boarded Mr. Takumi's wild ride, only to be stopped just before the loop-the-loop and told to deboard. But for Ryuunosuke and co. it's only been a few months since they cracked the case of the unspeakable story. Now, a new crime in Japan leads an unexpected attorney to stand in court for the first time, and a new chain of cases to descend upon London.

Questions

Will this be officially released in English?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWApguCsyRg

Okay, but can I play it in English?
The Dai Gyakuten Saiban Youtube sub team recently won the rights to get their translation restored to YouTube, and they intend to sub DGS2 as well.

The DGS1 fan translation patch team is still neck-deep in the first game, but they've already started updating their tools for DGS2.

Do I have to have played/watched the first game to play/watch this one?
Yes. Unlike every other AA game in the series, DGS2 is a direct sequel to DGS1, with the premise of its plot being that it will serve as a continuation and conclusion of DGS1's plotlines. I'm sure there will be some recapping in-game, but you'll lose a lot of the impact playing it before DGS1.

Okay, I want to play DGS1 first.
If you speak Japanese, a special double-pack of DGS1+2 (with a pack-in soundtrack) is available at most Japanese retailers and online. If you don't, there's a subbed playthrough on YouTube, or you can import a Japanese copy and wait for the fan translation patch.

Any new features compared to DGS1?
Not really. The main "special" features in the game remain Joint Reasoning and the Jury Battles.

I heard the soundtrack is the same as DGS1?
From what we've heard, the vast majority of the courtroom tracks are reused from DGS1, as are a few others; however, DGS2's soundtrack releases next week, and is slated to have 40+ tracks, so there should be a good amount of new music.

What are the episodes about?
Shuu Takumi has said you'll have the best experience going in blind, but if you want to know the basics of each case:
Episode 1:
Susato takes to the defense bench when a familiar face is murdered - and her best friend is arrested.
Episode 2:
In this direct sequel to DGS1-4 (taking place between DGS1-4 and DGS1-5), Natsume Souseki's under the gun again when one of his flatmates is poisoned.
Episode 3:
London's World Fair gets off to a tragic start when a teleportation experiment ends in an explosion that kills a man. Ryuunosuke takes on the scientist's defense, but there seems to be much more lurking in the shadows...
Episode 4: ???
Episode 5: ???

I played DGS1 but the lack of conclusion left me cold. This isn't just a setup for DGS3, is it?
The dev team and reviews have been very explicit that they wrap up all of the DGS1 plotlines in this game, and Takumi's made comments to the effect that he feels he's told these characters' story now.

Resources:
Court-Records for further discussion, rips, etc. [disclosure, I help run this]
The Ace Attorney Wiki (as always, be very cautious of spoilers and misinfo immediately after release)
DS-can walkthrough

Launch trailer
 
H

Hasemo

(；・∀・)ﾊｯ?
I'm excited to grab it tomorrow, but probably won't play until I'm done with DQXI.
 
Z

ZeroD

Member
Want to get this but neck deep in DQ11 and if it's anything like GS6 then it might drop in price pretty sharply. So might give it until Obon and check then.
 
M

Magnet_Man

Member
As the trailer and every advertisement for DGS2 has stated, "Now all the mysteries will be answered". I've assembled little summaries of said mysteries to look out for and to remind people who may have forgotten (and for you lizard people that don't care about spoilers).

All these spoilers are from Dai Gyakuten Saiban 1 unless stated otherwise. I'm not going to be updating these as time goes on with "answers" or whatnot. There are other, smaller mysteries as well, but I think they will be answered in the course of pursuing these main ones.

I have no issue deleting these if it is considered too tempting or too much info. I just think it's interesting to keep these in mind for a refresher or to keep in the forefront of our thoughts while playing, kind of like reviewing Virtue's Last Reward before Zero Time Dilemma came out. Hopefully this won't be as divisive.

Also I want to see if I massively misread things >_>.

Case 1
-
Motive
For the first time since 4-1, the killer was exposed without ever establishing a motive. Considering the preparation and somewhat intimate knowledge about the victim needed to perform this murder, it was clearly planned in advance. What was the reason someone would go through that much effort to kill the victim?

-
My fair lady
Following the trial, your characters speculated that the killer, Jezail Brett would not be tried by Japan and extradited back to England, but it is uncertain. We never hear the final results or talk about her again. What happened to her after the trial?

*Partial Answer*
Spoilers for DGS2-1, from Web Demo
We learn from the DGS2 web demo that it has been 9 months since that trial and finally after deliberations with England and Japan it was decided Jezail would be sent to Shanghai to undergo trial at an English court there. Jezail had a final request to go to a private beach for her last day in Japan which England accepted and pressured Japanese government to comply, which they quickly caved to again. However in a changing shack at the beach, Jezail was found stabbed to death making her the victim of the first case.

Case 2
-
A Samurai with a Mission
Asougi told Naruhodo that in London "there is something I absolutely must accomplish, no matter the sacrifices I'd need to make". He also wanted Naruhodo to be there to see it but never told him the details of this "mission", nor told Susato, his legal aide, who was not even aware Asougi had such a mission. What exactly did Asougi want to accomplish in the English Empire?

Case 3
-
The Curse of the Reaper of Old Bailey
Barok Van Zieks, our rival prosecutor, is known as "The Reaper of Old Bailey". There are two reasons he is called this: his exceptional talent as a prosecutor and ominously rumor has it that every defendant that is found "Not Guilty" on a trial that Van Zieks serves dies shortly after under mysterious circumstances. Are these deaths a curse, coincidence, or something more sinister?

Case 4
-
...Who the hell were those guys??
During the investigation, Naruhodo and Susato come across two colorful people having an argument about something. One is a man dressed in flashy clothes and speaks like he is in Shakespeare. The other is appears to be an irritable and gruff industrial worker who kind of looks an angry bumble bee. These two people and their argument have no bearing on the events of the case or the game's events in the slightest. So...what the hell is going on with them??

Case 5 (The big ones)
-
Susato and The Hound of the Baskervilles
One of the primary causes of the case's events is Iris lamenting the complications with one of her latest manuscripts. For people not in the know, Iris is the secret author of the "Adventures of Sherlock Holmes" stories published in Strandts magazine while using her father as pen name. She writes her stories based on Holmes recounting his adventures to her but primarily she does so using a collection of journals her father, John Watson, wrote during his travels with Holmes. She had finished writing a new manuscript, "Baskerville" and showed it to Holmes to proof read and permission to publish it. Instead in a rare showing of genuine sternness from Holmes, he forbade her from publishing the story and not only that but deposited the manuscript to a local pawnshop, Hatch's Shop. Susato expresses her disappointment at not being able to read about "the Hound of the Baskervilles". Iris turns serious and asks, "...How did you know the title?" In their conversation, Iris only referred to her manuscript as "Baskerville" yet Susato knew the entire title. Susato since then has refused to explain how even at the game's conclusion, but has promised to do so when the time is right.

-
Van Zieks's past and the Japanese
Van Zieks does not hold the Japanese people in high regard, calling them liars, tricksters, and traitors with no respect for law officers among many other decrying comments. It isn't until after the final trial concludes that he explains himself slightly to Naruhodo. In the past, there was a Japanese person that Van Zieks had absolute faith in but later betrayed him. After meeting Naruhodo in Case 3, Van Zieks would intentionally take what the public considered "simple cases with obvious culprits" such as Case 4 and 5 solely so he could observe Naruhodo. We also learn that five years ago, Van Zieks left the courts and it was then that he became known as "The Reaper". He never returned to court again until the events of Case 3. It's possible that the Reaper's curse is an exaggeration from a gossip-loving populace that resulted from some incident five years ago and this incident could be the reason he left the courts. What happened between Van Zieks and his Japanese friend, and what happened five years ago that made him leave the courtroom and be known as The Reaper of Old Bailey?

-
The Message
(The biggest and a massive spoiler for the entirety of DGS 1)
The events of Case 3 and 5 originated in the aftermath of illegal trafficking of telegraph Morse code messages. The message was eventually played in court, but it was determined to be secret code instead of Morse code so no one knew what the message actually said. Iris wrote down part of the message to attempt to translate it later and after the trial realized that the message was indeed Morse code but not in English. Rather it was done in "Iroha" code, an early format of the Japanese alphabet, meaning this top secret and classified message from the English Empire was most likely sent to the Japanese Empire. Using this knowledge, Susato decoded the partial message and found it was a list of names.

"K. Asougi (Kazuma Asougi)
A. Sasha (unknown)
T. Gregson (Tobias Gregson)
J. Watson (John Watson)

These are the four..."

This message was so important that its recovery demanded the full force of Scotland Yard and even murders were committed to acquire it. What was this transmission? What is the significance and relationship of these four people?

Still haven't caught on to how time zones work and didn't realize the digital version would get unlocked tomorrow morning while I'm at work. I took Thursday and Friday off so hopefully I can demolish it before I go back to work and before Youtube recommended videos show me every breakdown in their thumbnails -_-
 
E

extralite

Member
Downloaded it yesterday, should unlock in about 8 hours! First game was brilliant and DGS2 is my most looked forward title this year.
 
T

TheSporkWithin

Member
Magnet_Man said:
As the trailer and every advertisement for DGS2 has stated, "Now all the mysteries will be answered". I've assembled little summaries of said mysteries to look out for and to remind people who may have forgotten (and for you lizard people that don't care about spoilers).
Click to expand...

Thanks for this.

Goddamn I'm so excited. Last time I was a few months late to the party and my Japanese level was ぎりぎり. This time it's day 1 and I'm considerably more literate.
 
I

InternHertz

Member
It should be unlocked by now. Can't check it because I'm still at work though.

I need to finish the first one still :(

edit:

3 Costumes are available for free in the DLC section.

The two bonus mini stories are also available, but for those you need the code you got for preordering (at least from within the eShop it was the case)
 
G

GSR

Member
case one's breakdown is unequivocally the greatest breakdown of all time, no ifs, ands, or buts
 
H

higemaru

Member
I still haven't played AA6 but I would buy this and DGS in a heartbeat if they were translated just because I think Shu Takumi is one of the best developers and storytellers working right now. I hope we see a fan translation for these two eventually
or a PC/Switch/PS4/literally anything port
 
F

Fukuzatsu

Member
I preordered this at GEO for long-weekend mystery solving, but I'm just praying this ends on less of a cliffhanger than the last game.
 
T

takoyaki

Member
Thanks for making the thread, I’ve had it pre-ordered digitally for a while and it should be ready to go by now. Still want to finish my Layton's Mystery Journey playthrough first, but after that it's time for DGS2 (DQ11 can wait ;).

Looking forward to some impressions, the first DGS was a very good game and I’m excited to see how the story continues.
 
M

matrix-cat

Member
I actually am learning Japanese for this game (among other reasons, of course :p). I've just about finished replaying the first Ace Attorney in Japanese, and I've custom-firmware-ised my 3DS and bought a copy of DGS1 in anticipation. I think I'm going to finish off the original AA trilogy before I jump into DGS, just to make sure my skills are up to snuff. So I guess it'll be a while before I'm up to DGS2, but, hey, some day soon I'll be there.
 
P

Piichan

Banned
Can only start playing this tomorrow, but looking forward to it. Can anyone briefly explain the cliff-hanger of the first game again? I haven't played the first one since its original release, and I can't find a simple summary online...
 
M

Magnet_Man

Member
GSR said:
case one's breakdown is unequivocally the greatest breakdown of all time, no ifs, ands, or buts
Click to expand...

I was thinking you were exaggerating, but no, that was actually the greatest comedic breakdown ever.

...Unfortunately that was about all the case had going for it I thought.

There was no sense of tension or development for Susato which made me really sad because of her statements near the start like this one moment making her "hate being born a woman" or how the "courts defend everyone yet don't accept women." I know they couldn't "solve" it since it was a historical fact, and it'd be really lame to have the other characters play it so on the nose to acknowledge how flawed that mindset of barring women just because Susato did a good job, but still I wish we did something with it. I was really interested in seeing how Susato would've have responded and persevered in the face of that, but it's just given a line at the start and dropped.

It's pretty much a case just to give context and setup for later events and that's crammed in the last five minutes. It makes for a good ending but the actual case was probably the tamest I can think of. Every case, even 1-1 had some semblance of changing your thinking about something but this was just...dull. You don't even poke one of the other witnesses mid-testimony. One of the things I noticed when replaying the series again recently before this launched was how well the control of information can be used for the best twists, with the worse examples always resulting from giving too much information too soon. This case did that A LOT.
Crime scene photo has a glaring hole in the shack's wall. Gee, I wonder where the knife came from? And that's the mid-game plot twist. You need to examine the pen early on and you find the reservoir with some liquid in it. Gee, I wonder where the poison was hidden? And that's the closing twist.

It's like the opposite of DGS1-1 where the first case was great but went on way too long while this one is dull but short. I suppose it evens out for me because --to be perfectly frank, outside of playing as Susato I couldn't give a shit about being in the Japanese Empire again. It's obvious that the meat of the story, both cast and conspiracies, is in England so the sooner we got back there the better.

But I'm a cynical old man hipster that doesn't like anything, so there's that to consider.

I think I'm actually going to start Case 2 tonight just to "start DGS2 for reals" after some Splatoon.
 
G

GSR

Member
I streamed case one on very little sleep which is never a good way for me to judge an AA case, but I'm inclined to agree. I'm glad it didn't drag on like DGS1-1 but I feel like its only solid card was
the seemingly background animation gag reporter being a real character and the killer
, and I guessed that as far back as the demo, lol.

I still liked it, but it was more for the characters and animations than the mystery.
 
E

extralite

Member
Magnet_Man said:
I was thinking you were exaggerating, but no, that was actually the greatest comedic breakdown ever.

...Unfortunately that was about all the case had going for it I thought.

There was no sense of tension or development for Susato which made me really sad because of her statements near the start like this one moment making her "hate being born a woman" or how the "courts defend everyone yet don't accept women." I know they couldn't "solve" it since it was a historical fact, and it'd be really lame to have the other characters play it so on the nose to acknowledge how flawed that mindset of barring women just because Susato did a good job, but still I wish we did something with it. I was really interested in seeing how Susato would've have responded and persevered in the face of that, but it's just given a line at the start and dropped.
Click to expand...
Actually there is a very subtle acknowledgment of Susato being a female attorney. The tatemae is, women can't be lawyers, but the honne is respect.
The judge says it's young students like Naruhodo who will shape the future of Japan. At that point he already knows it's really Susato, since Mikotoba told him beforehand.

It's pretty much a case just to give context and setup for later events and that's crammed in the last five minutes. It makes for a good ending but the actual case was probably the tamest I can think of. Every case, even 1-1 had some semblance of changing your thinking about something but this was just...dull. You don't even poke one of the other witnesses mid-testimony. One of the things I noticed when replaying the series again recently before this launched was how well the control of information can be used for the best twists, with the worse examples always resulting from giving too much information too soon. This case did that A LOT.
Crime scene photo has a glaring hole in the shack's wall. Gee, I wonder where the knife came from? And that's the mid-game plot twist. You need to examine the pen early on and you find the reservoir with some liquid in it. Gee, I wonder where the poison was hidden? And that's the closing twist.
Click to expand...
I don't know, deus ex machina revelations aren't really good storytelling. It's better to foreshadow and have the hints be complex enough that there are still twists you don't see coming.
Like why the murderer used a knife in addition to the poison. You can also see that one coming but it isn't as obvious as the location of the poison.

Also, realizing the worth of a piece of evidence early will often manage to distract players from the tasks at hand since it won't be until much later when they get to use it. You think you know what to do but then there are many other steps to take and evidence to put into context.
 
M

Magnet_Man

Member
extralite said:
I don't know, deus ex machina revelations aren't really good storytelling. It's better to foreshadow and have the hints be complex enough that there are still twists you don't see coming.
Like why the murderer used a knife in addition to the poison. You can also see that one coming but it isn't as obvious as the location of the poison.
Click to expand...

What I'm talking about aren't deus ex machina things at all. The entire series and even the title comes from the idea of "turnabouting" your thinking on matters and on evidence as the case progresses. Literally every case in the series does this to some degree except this one. Even something as simple as 1-1 made you think that the Thinker clock was slow by a few hours but later on you realize it was actually fast by almost an entire day. And a better example in DGS1-1
the medical exam's initial value is proving that Watson wasn't alone at his table, but as time went on it gained new value as proving why kurare only affected him
. None of the evidence in this case took on that revised value, so it felt really simple and dull.

Honestly I'd consider the introduction of
special effect poison yet again dismissing the entire stabbing angle
is more of a deus ex machina.

extralite said:
Also, realizing the worth of a piece of evidence early will often manage to distract players from the tasks at hand since it won't be until much later when they get to use it. You think you know what to do but then there are many other steps to take and evidence to put into context.
Click to expand...

The better uses of evidence is to show an initial value to them, preferably going in depth to them beyond whatever Payne or the rival character say at the item's introduction so that it gets placed out of mind before new information brings this old item back to the forefront with new context. 3-1 is one of the best examples of this with
Cold Killer X how we first learn about it as an item with Phoenix's fingerprints most likely stolen by the real killer to incriminate Phoenix. Instead the medicine was filled with poison intended to kill Phoenix.
There's also 1-5's
cloth with Ema's handprint. At first it's just a cloth with a handprint, but then you realize it proved Ema pushed Marshall and you proceed that way for the case until you get another photo that shows that if things proceeded that way there should be blood on it as well. Now this cloth became evidence to prove what really happened.
A bad example of this would be 6-2 and the TV footage
clearly showing Mr. Hat and the body getting hoisted into the air. That video just told you that the body was moved from the stage via wires at the very start of the case but no one acknowledges it until the very end
. It creates disconnect because you know more than the characters do so when they're struggling to answer something that the game clearly told you already it makes them appear less competent. Especially when the characters finally do explain that obvious point there was no prompt that justified how they finally caught up.

Evidence should have two points to it: the initial fact and then a "real" fact about it that is hidden until the case progresses and gives that secondary fact context and exposure. In DGS2-1's case it would've been better if
you couldn't find the empty ink reservoir when examining it. Instead examining just told you about the emblem which makes Payne's argument the pen, the initials, moot and incriminates Mamemimo later. Then wait until the end of the case to have some line of action reveal that the pen is empty or that you see how this fountain pen works, making you realize the pen was actually the real murder weapon. Heck, he kept tapping his pencil on his tongue, couldn't that have been a more interesting way for the poison to be administered? Like he asks you "There were no lip marks on her drinking glass! How would I get her to take the poison? You can't prove that!" and you present the pen at this point. That would be similar to DGS1-1 and initially presenting the
bottle when she claims there was no external injuries aside from the gun so that was the only way he could've died

It's not even about how well the writers used their evidence to create twists or not; they didn't even try.

Case 2 is going by MUCH better, btw. Really enjoying it so far. That Joint Reasoning presentation had me howling.
 
G

GSR

Member
Case 2 feels much more like an original trilogy case than most of the DGS cases so far. That's not a bad thing, mind you, it's just noticeable. It still uses the setting really well though, and it's interesting playing a case that's so directly connected to a previous one (without literally just being two halves of the same case like in AA5.)
 
Link1110

Link1110

Member
I'm on case 4 of the first one now. This month I'm locked out of my living room cause of no air conditioner, so this, the first one, dragon quest 11 and DanganRonpa 2 are gonna keep my room enjoyable.

Maybe I'll finish case 4 then start dgs2 and go back to case 5 after I finish case 2 of dgs2. Any indication I'll get spoilered on anything if i do that?
 
G

GSR

Member
I was spoiled on a good chunk of case two before I even started it and I still thought it was pretty solid. Will write more tomorrow probably.
 
M

Magnet_Man

Member
Finished Case 2. Much better and smoother than Case 1. I was not expecting there to be multiple investigations again after the majority of AA6 and DGS1 so I'm really tired...

Fun standard fare case, these characters have so many animations it's crazy. Mieterman's shocked animation is the thing of nightmares though. Do not use 3D on it. Goddamn. The killer was a lot of fun to watch though most of the subtleties of the dialogue went over my head
since I don't know Shakespeare very well let alone the Japanese equivalent of his lines.
And WOW that second investigation phase got dark really quick.
Stopping someone attempting suicide...damn
. I did have a brain fart near the end of the case
I thought Selden's treasure was hidden in a fake gas meter box. That padlock on it looked exactly like the key Viridian had and the first court day had the wasp lady and Mieterman talking about how tamper-proof the boxes were. Of course thinking on it, that wouldn't work since Mieterman checks the boxes every three days for coins. He'd notice a fake box. I also got stumped at the "true killer" point because Viridian was in a coma on the night of the incident so I didn't even consider her. I am surprised that they went through the trouble of having her paint on the stand and yet she didn't nothing with those props. Wasted opportunity.

Still felt kind of rushed though. These first two cases seem like they were going down a checklist of things they need to establish. "Something's fishy with Japan's relationship with England: check. Asougi had something to do in England: check. Van Zieks hates the Japanese and he's The Reaper: check." It reminds me of AA3 in that regard like how 3-2 was mainly meant to refresh on Spirit Channeling and the extended Fey family tucked away in a murder case.

I wish I had more to say about these cases so far but there hasn't been anything new. No new characters or new interactions. They're just DGS1 cases but faster and without the somber melancholy.

There's definitely something to be said about the different tone and pacing between these two games. DGS1 felt like one long, continuous story while DGS2 so far feels like the original trilogy games did with clear chunks of standalone story that are faintly interconnected. DGS1 had a very clear tone of uncertainty and alienation. I'm two cases in to DGS2 and I have no idea what the tone is supposed to be, but again I think that's because these first two cases are meant to refresh on the previous game's unresolved matters asap. AA3 didn't really kick into gear until case 4 and then 5 went all out.

Finally getting into post-DGS1 content with Case 3 tomorrow when the
World Fair
finally starts. I hope I get to see (DGS1-5 spoiler)
Inspector Gregson again real soon. The first words out of his mouth better be "you just kicked me in the teeth and are now stomping my balls." Fucking scumbag asshole.
 
G

GSR

Member
purseowner said:
Does the 1&2 box really have the Best Price! version of 1 inside?

If true, that's very off-putting.
Click to expand...

Yup. Capcom gonna Capcom.

That's a good point about the tone and consistency of DGS1 vs DGS2, MM. DGS1 laid it's tone down very quickly and emotionally in the first two cases, but so far DGS2 just seems to be "everything is connected". Cases 1 and 2 didn't really have that emotional core, especially since there was so much recapping, but case 3 has already set up a couple juicy character dynamics that I'm looking forward to seeing unfold.
 
C

Chrono Helix

Member
Just bought a retail copy of the game, can't wait to dive into it!

Was there anything stated about a recommended time to play the preorder side stories?
 
C

Chauzu

Member
Ok, finished first case now. I'm pleased with everything but lack of new music, which is usually one of the best parts of new Ace Attorney games. In the end tho, I'm just happy this game even exists.

Impressions:
I think Susato as lawyer worked nicely and was a fun spin.
When I first saw the camera guy I was all "THAT'S THE KILLER" in a joking way and as the case progressed I always kept that in my mind, and when I realized it was actually happening I was so thrilled. I also like how they managed to set up a "yeah so I stabbed her but even if I hadn't stabbed her she was going to die from poison anyway" scenario,
haha. After the case is interesting since they obviously are trying to tie loose ends together,
I presume we'll learn more case 2.
 
G

GSR

Member
It's pretty funny how Barok is more interesting in the first investigation of case 3 than in all of DGS1 combined
 
M

Magnet_Man

Member
About to go into the second court phase of case 3.

This case is bananas. Straight up insane. Holy Christ with cheese at this
Enoch freakshow
. I was busting up laughing at the teasing on the
Professor wax figure. They're hyping up the reveal and sneaking a peak at him and...he's missing his head. You find the head later....and it's wearing an iron mask because it doesn't have a face underneath it at all
.

But I am very concerned about this "Masked Disciple" business. Depending on how it plays out I'm going to outright loathe both of these games. It has already put possibly my favorite aspect of DGS1's story and Naruhodo's characterization in serious jeopardy. If they take that away for a "what a tweest", I'm going to be absolutely livid. Legit screaming anger. I can't stand those kinds of plot twists. But I'm going to try to have faith that Takumi knows what he's doing but he's going have to pull some magic strings to make this play out with pissing me off on some level. I like the guy but I don't know if he's that good. The in game characters clearly aren't confused about who the disciple is so I don't think Takumi's doing it for the twist reveal. That's all that's keeping me positive about it.

I hope case 4 is shorter because I really want to finish this game this weekend.
 
G

GamerJM

Banned
Haven't picked this up but I recently started DGS1. Only did the first two cases so far, didn't outright dislike either of them but they also aren't really super memorable cases either, feels like a game that just starts a little slow I with solid but unmemorable first two cases I guess. I will say that so far I like the cast quite a bit more than SoJ's. I really dig Sherlock Holmes' wacky antics.
 
S

scamander

Banned
Okay, what are the chances Capcom will release a bundle consisting of this and the first game in the West?

I know, I know... :(
 
C

Chrono Helix

Member
I'm finding the first case really hard. I've lost all my lives at least 3 times over, and I'm just on the first testimony after the intermission.

The
random photographer taking pics of Natsume Souseki in his silly poses turning out to be a key witness
was a great twist.
 
M

Magnet_Man

Member
ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME CASE 4!? ARE YOU SERIOUS WITH THIS!?

After I was finally coming around to you after all that talk about taking Gina to Paris... RIP chinless...
 
S

Sinh_Magnus

Member
Well, I don't know what to expect from this game, given the impressions so far.

Of course, I don't want to spoil myself since I already saw the entire first game on youtube last year, and would expect to do the same with the second one. Unfortunely that's the only way to understand the story for me.

Having said that, I really liked the first one. Thought the characters were great and loved the atmosphere, soundtrack and the story for the most part. Yes it had flaws and left questions unanswered, that I hoped this game wil tackle.

Hope that you guys are enjoying it.
 
G

GSR

Member
I haven't had much time to play today, which is a shame because I'm early in case 3 and everything pops off after that AFAIK.

Magnet_Man said:
ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME CASE 4!? ARE YOU SERIOUS WITH THIS!?

After I was finally coming around to you after all that talk about taking Gina to Paris... RIP chinless...
Click to expand...

This is one of the things I spoiled myself on when I poked around in the demo files and I've been waiting for you to hit it, lol.
 
M

Magnet_Man

Member
Finished Case 4. Can't wait to start Case 5
THAT'S CHEATING AND YOU KNOW IT TAKUMI! YOU WROTE 4 CASES; OWN IT!

My brain is pudding seeping from my ears right now.

That last Joint Reasoning (I'm assuming it's the last one) is one of the funniest things I've ever seen in a game. Great banter and slapstick throughout.
*Reasoning music stops, dead silence*
Holmes: ...Mr. Naruhodo? Why did I buy a record in German that I don't understand at all?
Naruhodo: ...I have no idea.
Holmes & Naruhodo: ....
*Joint Reasoning and music resumes*

Naruhodo: This is the reason for your silence!
*camera shifts to touch screen*
Naruhodo: So why was Iris being so quiet?
Susato: But Master Naruhodo, you made that declaration and already pointed your finger?
Naruhodo: ...
Naruhodo: Susato, there are times when a man, even when there isn't a thought in his head, must thrust his arm out and point.
Susato: I don't understand but alright.

This conclusion is looking to be absolutely insane. There are so many cogs floating around and I can only faintly see how they come together. I'm getting so many 1-4,1-5, and 3-5 vibes from this.

The Disciple thing has mostly played out and thankfully it didn't ruin DGS1 like I was afraid it would. I do think it hurt it a bit but still retained what I loved about it.
My fear was that Asougi's death was all a fake that he planned or some crap. "I knew you would volunteer to take my place and our government would allow it if I faked my death in an elaborate scheme that I only had a few days to make up!" The explanation is still kinda meh and I have to roll my eyes at some parts of it (amnesia gets my vote for laziest plot device but at least it wasn't dragged out or resolved with the "Power of Friendship")

I'll save my overall thoughts on Case 4 until the end so Case 3 now that I'm awake.

Case 3 had pretty much everything I love about Ace Attorney. Funny client (voiced by Kappei Yamaguchi, AKA Usopp), absurd premise for a murder
victim died in the explosion of a teleporter, but the teleporter actually worked because the body was in another tower
, very entertaining suspects, sad background story, and the conclusive evidence taking on entirely new meaning right at the last minute. That's what I'm referring to when I was talking about Case 1 underwhelming me with its use of evidence.

It was actually a really hard case to solve as well. I got stuck in the investigation phase because I didn't click on a single, tiny book on a desk while it is surrounded by "desk" which is a different thing to examine altogether. I also got stumped on two testimonies near the end. On one I had to do the horrible thing of saving and then presenting every piece before it went through. I got super mad when it finally went though because it didn't make any sense but then Naruhodo starts explaining and I'm like, "...oh. Oh right! How the hell was I going to figure that out??" The second one was also really tough but luckily I somehow realized the problem which put a new spin on old evidence which is my absolute favorite thing to experience in these games. That moment when your brain snaps and everything fits together.

It felt really busy though and I think that's because Takumi was originally planning on having things spaced out across three games which is why the first had a ton of open threads that he could've slowly resolved but the poor sales forced them all to be answered in one game, with Case 3 getting the bulk of that duty expanding on information. However it didn't feel bloated. Everything you're investigating and being told about is all very interesting and compelling. It's amusing to realize that this side content completely eclipsed the actual murder case you're trying to solve. Not going to lie, I audibly said "oh right" when the conversation finally got back to the World's Fair incident during the last court day. I was disappointed at the breakdown because it is so similar to their "damaged" animation that it didn't feel distinct enough.

GSR said:
This is one of the things I spoiled myself on when I poked around in the demo files and I've been waiting for you to hit it, lol.
Click to expand...

Alright lizard man, tell me this: (Case 5 spoiler)
How'd you know the subtitle to the game? After the announcement trailer, iirc, you went with "Resolve" when subbing the trailer and asked if anyone had a better suggestion. I was going with "determination" until then but dropped it when "resolve" rolls off the tongue better. Was the title listed somewhere at the announcement that I didn't know about? Otherwise I think Capcom is straight up lurking Gaf and C-R.
 
C

Chrono Helix

Member
I'm wondering if I'd get more out of this game if I'm familiar with the works of Natsume Souseki.

Just reached the first Joint Reasoning. Do your thing, Holmes!
 
M

Magnet_Man

Member
And done. A totally insane final case. So much plot dump and reveals. If they just didn't trip at the last step it'd be one of my top 3 probably.

So Case 4 starts really heavy with the victim, defendant, followed by a ton of new faces and information going and the investigation just goes further into the big mysteries in the story. It's almost half a dozen mysteries to follow yet they seem related somehow that isn't clear. It's really a great mystery story. The best part though was at the end during the final Joint Reasoning, because it finally did what I think was missing from the game so far and that is the hilarious interactions between the cast. This final Reasoning isn't even about something dire or urgent to cracking the case, but just them solving a strange sight in the living room. It gives this air of it just being another afternoon and it's so silly and fun. I would pour all kinds of money into DLC that is just Joint Reasoning gags. It was a very appreciated change of pace from all the heavy content we had just learned so I felt refreshed before tackling the conclusion in Case 5.

Case 5 is simply bonkers with all the changes, twists and reveals
I knew we were going to get you in court Vortex but I didn't think it'd be THAT quick
. It goes through a bunch of different layers and routes but it also has some of the funniest gags with Holmes in between things. Near the end he does something and I was laughing so hard I got light-headed and my stomach started to hurt. I wish I could make an animated gif avatar of it.
Why would you design a phone like that Iris? My upstairs neighbor must think there's something horribly wrong with me for laughing that loud and long at Hologram Holmes doing the robot while bailiffs try to grab him.
I was having a blast with it...until the very end. The killer is...odd with some of their actions...
so Vortex just admits he has this organization of assassins that kill the people that escape "justice" and he says this out loud and people just...go with it? What? Even after it was revealed that he was behind half of the Professor killings, we're just cool with that, people in the audience?
Still it was a really fun and engaging case with some great contradictions to find but the way how they catch the killer at the end is so bad...
you call Holmes and he just saves the day, boom, bye. You want to talk deus ex machina? There you go. Freaking gross. One of my favorite things about Naruhodo and Holmes relationship is that neither one outshined the other. I mean you go through all these incidents through the years and you never actually prove Vortex was responsible. He could've argued against the will by saying that's just who older Van Zieks thought was pressuring him but no proof. What I was hoping for and expecting was that he was the one that ultimately shot Genshin in the graveyard, and I think they could've pulled it off by reflecting on something Jigoku said earlier that would discredit Vortex or something. Just having Holmes call in and say "you're fired" and Vortex gives up is terrible. I could get that he couldn't claim he can't be arrested because there isn't definitive proof that he did any of that since the Queen could just order him arrested, but couldn't he have said something? I'm thinking of Gant claiming the cloth is illegal evidence as one last pathetic attempt to get out of it but gets shot down in two seconds. Just something like that here. He gets fired by the Queen, claims that there's no proof, Naruhodo objects pointing out something that proves that Jigoku couldn't have been in the graveyard that night so the only one who could've shot Genshin was Vortex, say for all his talk about justice he's just a murderer anyway, breakdown. Also, HUUUUUUGE missed opportunity for not having Big Ben's iconic bell signaling Vortex's downfall. The dude's office is a giant clock tower and he's obsessed with time! Come on!

Overall, I liked DGS2 a lot and it felt like a return to the original trilogy in terms of writing and trial proceedings, but it felt really busy. There's hardly any new characters and there is so much mystery to cover that it can feel overwhelming a bit. The mysteries however are very interesting and complex so it's fun to delve into them. The character interactions are still phenomenal and are always the most memorable parts of the game. I just wish there were more of them. It's the opposite to DGS1 where 1 was an extremely strong character focused story, but weak mystery and here it's a very strong mystery but not a lot of emphasis on characters. It really feels like you have two game's worth of mysteries crammed into two cases. It worked out on a more than satisfactory level, but it still feels a bit off sadly. You get some character arcs with Van Zieks and
Asougi
but they're kind of treated in a "oh, by the way" kind of manner if that makes sense. I'm really sad about the lack of jury interactions. That's the most unique aspect about DGS gameplay wise and it's all but absent from this. Either they don't interact at all or they cave too easily. In DGS1 they would interject like crazy and help move the game in different directions than the random "hold it" or "objection" things.

I think I prefer DGS1 more because it was more consistent and focused. It absolutely benefited from being in a new setting with a new cast. It wasn't just Phoenix and Maya but in the past. It was novel and distinct but still having the charm and excitement of Ace Attorney. DGS1 again had that strong tone going for it. There is a pervading sense of uncertainty and confusion in the game. The events in the first three cases of that game are all thrust upon Naruhodo and he has to respond to them, and in those cases are all filled with people that either hate you, distrust you, or just don't care about you. Which is why the few people that do treat you kindly and side with you are that much more precious like Asougi and Holmes. DGS1 is always going to have a special place for me because of that despite its flaws. DGS2 just didn't give me that kind of emotional attachment or impact even though it had more twists and surprises. Both games are lacking in either characterization or mystery, so neither game feels complete on their own. Treating them as two pieces to one whole works out a lot better with a goofy middle being DGS2-1 and DGS2-2. It reminds me of the animes from the 90s like Trigun and Outlaw Star where the first half of the series was more light-hearted and fun because it was introducing the characters and their interactions before the second half put them to the grindstone.

I don't think video games are a medium that benefit from being open ended. Actually I know they don't at this point. It raises the exceptions of the players and puts too much pressure on the sequel to live up to them instead of being their own experience and world. AA3 worked out so well because it took advantage of vague side information that wasn't directly important to the game they were introduced in. The closest we got was Morgan's statement to herself at the end of 2-2. That's why when AA3 started linking to past events it was more satisfying and made AA3 have a greater sense of scale, making for a more intense conclusion. DGS2 exists just to answer the intentional open questions of the first game making for some questionable character choices and rushed some plot threads.

Still, it was a great ride for the vast majority of it and I'm curious to see how it performs on replay...in a year or something. I played the entire series again before this came out so I am Ace Attorney'd OUT. One of the most creative takes on a timeless character.

Follow your spirit, and upon this charge. Cry ”God for Harry, England, and Saint George!"
 
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