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[Durante]

Sony has a customer 120Hz curved OLED panel with full RGB stripe, and apparently thenpabel is designed to cram more pixels.in the centre of your vision (but this might be something to do with optics or a combo of both, not sure).

Do you have a source for it being curved? That's the first time I hear this.

Also, the "more pixels at the center" thing is purely a function of the optics and was already the case on DK1(!) and DK2.

Finally, you are missing the part where 2 screens (as on Rift and Vive) allow you to more effectively use your available pixels than a single screen does, and also allow for more accurate optical IPD adjustments.

 

[metareferential]

We should have tags in these threads that say "I'm buying PSVR" or "I've bought Rift", etc.

One can already tell anyway xD

 

[mrklaw]

Ultimately, the IQ in none of these HMDs is going to blow Gear VR away. Gear VR uses a 1440p screen. Of course, the PC HMDs will be able to make somewhat better use of their resolution with better optics and because they don't lose as many pixels (due to separate screens), and PSVR, though it's even lower resolution on a single screen, at least has a RGB layout.

But ultimately, I think people should get used to the idea that in terms of spatial resolution, none of the first generation consumer headsets will be particularly good. In fact, they will be a lot worse than whatever monitor or TV you are used to. The sooner you make your peace with that the better.

At least there are some aspects in which the IQ will shine compared to your existing displays, like contrast ratio (unless you are using an OLED TV).

obviously YMMV but I think I could handle lower resolution if the screen door is kept to a minimum. vive pre was ok but not great.

 

[Krejlooc]

We should have tags in these threads that say "I'm buying PSVR" or "I've bought Rift", etc.

One can already tell anyway xD

which am I buying?

 

[KingSnake]

which am I buying?

Gear VR, obviously.

 

[Durante]

We should have tags in these threads that say "I'm buying PSVR" or "I've bought Rift", etc.

One can already tell anyway xD

I think we could have tags like "I was interested in VR before any particular company was doing it"

 

[metareferential]

which am I buying?

None, I hope you already have them since you work with them xD

I was referring to DavidDesu, spawning in this thread to defend PSVR xD

I think we could have tags like "I was interested in VR before any particular company was doing it"

Yep. xD

 

[Qassim]

Well I now officially have all three on pre-order, I probably won't keep the PSVR, but the order is there just in case something changes my mind before release.

 

[Man]

The technical quality differences between the PSVR hmd and the Rift hmd are grey, not black & white. They both have strength and weaknesses that don't purely overlap (120hz RGB Oled vs 90hz pentile Oled w/slightly higher res).

What *does* make a black and white difference is the hardware that drives them and obviously Rift wins out.

 

[backbreaker65]

I am not comparing the platforms they run on. I am comparing the headsets. The technology in the rift is superior to the technology in the PSVR.

Dude you just reference what sony said, I just pointed out the quote in it's entirety. So you want to conflate the point go for it, I'm out.

 

[Durante]

obviously YMMV but I think I could handle lower resolution if the screen door is kept to a minimum. vive pre was ok but not great.

I know I can handle lower resolution in any case, I mean I could deal with DK1 and I can deal with DK2.
I just want people to be fully aware that what they are getting in these devices will not rival their existing displays in terms of spatial resolution.

 

[DOT DASH DOT]

Does anyone actually know if the Vive comes with a case to store it in like the nice Rift one?

 

[FalsettoVibe]

Great thread OP. Subscribed.

 

[Durante]

I'd still like an answer on the whole "curved" thing for PSVR, otherwise I'll have to assume it was made up on the spot.

 

[TerryLee81]

I know I can handle lower resolution in any case, I mean I could deal with DK1 and I can deal with DK2.
I just want people to be fully aware that what they are getting in these devices will not rival their existing displays in terms of spatial resolution.

Yeah that was my biggest disappointment when I tried GearVR last week for the first time. I thought with the fairly high resolution of the S7 it wouldn't be a problem, but resolution seems really really low.

I guess we need two 4k screens and hardware that can run these at high fps, so in 5 years maybe.

 

[Man]

I'd still like an answer on the whole "curved" thing for PSVR, otherwise I'll have to assume it was made up on the spot.

I actually read a GDC interview with Dr.Richard Marks where he stated that they de-warp it for the social screen on the breakout box (meaning, at least for games without unique social screen content, don't send out the pure render buffer frame).

 

[metareferential]

Yeah that was my biggest disappointment when I tried GearVR last week for the first time. I thought with the fairly high resolution of the S7 it wouldn't be a problem, but resolution seems really really low.

I guess we need two 4k screens and hardware that can run these at high fps, so in 5 years maybe.

We need high-res screen and foveated rendering. It's not going to be that big of a wait anyway I hope.

Still, I'll reiterate on what I said in the previous page: GearVR has many other disadvantages that resolution alone can't cover.

Some experiences on DK2 are far better on any level, despite the lesser tech.

 

[Qassim]

I actually read a GDC interview with Dr.Richard Marks where he stated that they de-warp it for the social screen on the breakout box (meaning, at least for games without unique social screen content, don't send out the pure render buffer frame).

That's not what is being referred to here. DavidDesu claimed the actual physical screen inside the PSVR is curved but there seems to be no evidence for that, I can't find anywhere where Sony has said the screen is curved.

 

[mrklaw]

But that's not what they said, and in fact they clarified and talked about that just a few sentences later. They were talking about the quality of the technology itself, not the value proposition. And they are objectively wrong.

I don't need to try the PSVR to be certain that the technology in it is not superior to the technology in the Oculus Rift CV1. Looking at the specs alone tell me that it is not.

maybe the included tracked DS4 or move support at launch, or comfort and ergonomics? two screens and screen res per eye are probably the only objectively better things on the rift. i don't think we know enough to make a call on screen door or optics

so i could possibly see how they might prefer PSVR if they find motion controls or other aspects beat out the screen res


edit:just watched it and i think they had demos with move so they'll be factoring in motion controller support which is a technical advantage over OR until touch comes out. the vive demo onslaught around room scale over the last 6-9 months really has pushed motion controls to the front of mind in the press I think.

 

[wamberz1]

Hey guys, great thread! I've got a noob question. Will the vive also support 360 movies and other forms of media outside gaming? I'm thinking about going all in but I want to make sure I get my moneys worth.

 

[mrklaw]

Hey guys, great thread! I've got a noob question. Will the vive also support 360 movies and other forms of media outside gaming? I'm thinking about going all in but I want to make sure I get my moneys worth.

yes,absolutely

 

[bj00rn_]

Twit VR offers their thoughts on PSVR, Vive and Rift.

They were very impressed with the value proposition of the PSVR.

Oh and they ranked them based on their experiences, the fit, the tech, and the perceived value. For those who like ranking orders. I won't spoil it for you other than to say that it seemed fair given the criteria they based their reasoning on.

Oh look; it's TWIT... I recently wrote a post about it; TWIT is actually my favorite tech podcast/show - but at the same time I'm sorry to say that it's a tech show that has done VR a complete disservice for years.. As much as I respect Leo and his guys and girls, it has been an absolute pain to listen to them whenever they've been talking about VR, often even embarrassingly so. It doesn't matter what they prefer or not, they have no clue whatsoever about VR.

 

[wamberz1]

yes,absolutely

Thanks!

 

[GeoGonzo]

Thanks!

Vive is the headset of choice for NASA, for example.

If we are talking specifically about 360 video, though? That looks mediocre on ANY headset and I don't think its a good fit or use for current VR.

 

[Pit]

And insight to how a vive will run with a 970 and i5-3570k oc @ 4.0ghz?

 

[mrklaw]

And insight to how a vive will run with a 970 and i5-3570k oc @ 4.0ghz?

i have that setup (barely overclocked 3570k, overclocked 970) and I got a solid score in the valve testing app. should be fine
I got a 7.9 which was categorised as 'high'. i was getting 6.9 with the 970 at stock clocks

 

[Turin Turambar]

Hey guys, great thread! I've got a noob question. Will the vive also support 360 movies and other forms of media outside gaming? I'm thinking about going all in but I want to make sure I get my moneys worth.

We can suppose someone will make a media player. But it's still a very early technology.

I mean, is even there a standard of 360 video format?

 

[Krejlooc]

I mean, is even there a standard of 360 video format?

all omnidirectional film is the same. It's a full frame that is stitched together from multiple viewports.

 

[mrklaw]

We can suppose someone will make a media player. But it's still a very early technology.

I mean, is even there a standard of 360 video format?

hold on - surely there are 360 players already from oculus rift DK times that would work? i assume oculus will have included apps in the oculus store, but i'd also (perhaps foolishly) assumed the same of vive.

360 videos and media playback is important to me, so hopefully it will be well supported at launch

 

[Anthony Soprano]

With the Vive, does it support mirroring out of the box for what is on your primary display, or will we need to wait for third-party programs and wrappers to do this? I'm merely interested in the prospect of mirroring 1920x1080 games and perhaps full screen video, even if it won't support the controls and stuff.

 

[bj00rn_]

hold on - surely there are 360 players already from oculus rift DK times that would work? i assume oculus will have included apps in the oculus store, but i'd also (perhaps foolishly) assumed the same of vive.

360 videos and media playback is important to me, so hopefully it will be well supported at launch

Yeah There are some really good media players for the DK2 out there already. So I'm sure some of them will be available around launch time.

 

[Krejlooc]

With the Vive, does it support mirroring out of the box for what is on your primary display, or will we need to wait for third-party programs and wrappers to do this? I'm merely interested in the prospect of mirroring 1920x1080 games and perhaps full screen video, even if it won't support the controls and stuff.

SteamVR does this already, and there are also already free third party apps that do it better.

 

[gmoran]

"But comparing the technology, I would place the PSVR above the oculus rift"

what? Their comparison doesn't make sense. You can prefer the comfort, you can prefer the all-in-one package, you can prefer the price. But the technology? No, that's not a subjective comparison. They are objectively wrong. The Oculus rift is technogically superior to the PSVR, and Sony readily admits it.

I think they were not communicating clearly, they were definitely talking about comfort and not the quality of the visuals. I took their reasoning to be that the Vive roomscale was the best VR experience but that the comfort of PSVR edged it in front of Rift: their subjective view.

The Rift seems to have the best visual experience, and I think they spent some serious dollar on optics.

 

[Mindlog]

The best part of the argument of 'my VR headset is better than your VR headset' is knowing that within a year (possibly a few months) after these first set of headsets release there will be another clearly better headset announced. I look forward to being called out for praising that headset's features and not raising the flag high enough on one or more of the headsetes I will own.

 

[Durante]

The best part of the argument of 'my VR headset is better than your VR headset' is knowing that within a year (possibly a few months) after these first set of headsets release there will be another clearly better headset announced. I look forward to being called out for praising that headset's features and not raising the flag high enough on one or more of the headsetes I will own.

Indeed.

Well, at least I hope so, I've recently become more convinced that we might be in for at least a 1.5 year+ wait for a significant upgrade to appear as an actual product.

 

[Dreamwriter]

I'd still like an answer on the whole "curved" thing for PSVR, otherwise I'll have to assume it was made up on the spot.

I was in a discussion about that with someone here a while back. The whole curved thing started because someone watched a Sony video about the PSVR and didn't realize the video had switched to talking about the optics, so they thought the video said the screen was some crazy custom thing, curved and with varying pixel density (more pixels in the center, less to the outside). So the "curved" thing was just a misunderstanding.

 

[Pif]

So what websites do you people use to stream naughty stuff to your rifts and vives?

Can't find a good one.

 

[Jams775]

Indeed.

Well, at least I hope so, I've recently become more convinced that we might be in for at least a 1.5 year+ wait for a significant upgrade to appear as an actual product.

I'd have to imagine they plan on upgrading the about as fast as phone manufacturers do. Though because it's still fresh maybe will more lag.

 

[Portugeezer]

The best part of the argument of 'my VR headset is better than your VR headset' is knowing that within a year (possibly a few months) after these first set of headsets release there will be another clearly better headset announced. I look forward to being called out for praising that headset's features and not raising the flag high enough on one or more of the headsetes I will own.

What would come out within a year?

And would it even matter? Most games will be made for Oculus/PSVR/Vive sitting experience. What improvements could happen that would improve that experience? Better resolution? Nothing ground breaking that would change the VR development landscape in 1 year.

 

[mrklaw]

Indeed.

Well, at least I hope so, I've recently become more convinced that we might be in for at least a 1.5 year+ wait for a significant upgrade to appear as an actual product.

Next logical baseline for me would be 4K per eye mitigated with foveated rendering, partnered with a nice 14/16nm GPU. I could see that being end of 2017 easily

If the existing tech drops in price by a decent amount, combined with more affordable 970-level GPUs (again thanks to smaller processes), that could open the market up to a much wider audience.

 

[taoofjord]

Indeed.

Well, at least I hope so, I've recently become more convinced that we might be in for at least a 1.5 year+ wait for a significant upgrade to appear as an actual product.

1.5 sounds about right to me. I don't think there's a reason to rush out another product in a year unless there's a massive influx of high quality games releasing.

 

[Mindlog]

What would come out within a year?

And would it even matter? Most games will be made for Oculus/PSVR/Vive sitting experience. What improvements could happen that would improve that experience? Better resolution? Nothing ground breaking that would change the VR development landscape in 1 year.

We'll see. Further, as soon as the segment matures I doubt our go-to reference for standard VR will be Oculus/PSVR/Vive.

 

[Arulan]

Speaking of release cycles, I believe Palmer mentioned something between that of a console and phone cycle. That would roughly be a 2-3 year cycle. That's about what I was expecting, but of course other manufacturers may differ.

 

[DOT DASH DOT]

Everyone (without or with little VR experience) keeps talking about image quality comparing resolution only; biggest difference between GearVR (even on a s7) and consumer HMDs is refresh rate.

I think even an s7 still operates at 60hz; that's not high enough to take away added blurriness; while resolution may be higher, the end results may vary.

And supposedly the optics in the final units could be better than what's already available on Gear.

And then there's contrast ratio and other variables at play. And the biggest difference is going to be software: some games could already hide SDE really effectively even on a DK2.

And again, this can't be stressed enough:

People who review the Pre seem to think that HTC are only upgrading straps and some logo's, but I've not seen anywhere HTC say anything about what they may or may not improve. Have there been any statements from them regarding improvements?

 

[Dreamwriter]

Speaking of release cycles, I believe Palmer mentioned something between that of a console and phone cycle. That would roughly be a 2-3 year cycle. That's about what I was expecting, but of course other manufacturers may differ.

Yeah, he said it would be between that of a console and cellphone cycle, but a lot closer to cell phone than console. So probably 2 years. He also said their recommended PC specs would remain the same until the next-generation came out.

 

[Dreamwriter]

People who review the Pre seem to think that HTC are only upgrading straps and some logo's, but I've not seen anywhere HTC say anything about what they may or may not improve. Have there been any statements from them regarding improvements?

Well, they've shown off the final unit, that's where the information came from. To my knowledge HTC themselves haven't announced any changes to the final unit.
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/02/htc-vive-unveiled-this-what-the-final-consumer-version-looks-like/

 

[Durante]

Talking about manufacturers and cycles, I really hope that more manufacturers start creating OpenVR-based HMDs. Ideally I'd like hardware competition entirely orthogonal to software ecosystems.

 

[mrklaw]

People who review the Pre seem to think that HTC are only upgrading straps and some logo's, but I've not seen anywhere HTC say anything about what they may or may not improve. Have there been any statements from them regarding improvements?

There really isn't much time between pre and retail for them to change much inside the headset. Pre is designed as a preview of the consumer unit.

 

[Arulan]

Talking about manufacturers and cycles, I really hope that more manufacturers start creating OpenVR-based HMDs. Ideally I'd like hardware competition entirely orthogonal to software ecosystems.

I think that'll happen naturally. Other manufacturers won't be able to leverage paid exclusives or a pre-existing community/store/install base to support their own initiatives. It's in their best interest to use OpenVR and compete with hardware.

 

[DOT DASH DOT]

Well, they've shown off the final unit, that's where the information came from. To my knowledge HTC themselves haven't announced any changes to the final unit.
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/02/htc-vive-unveiled-this-what-the-final-consumer-version-looks-like/

There really isn't much time between pre and retail for them to change much inside the headset. Pre is designed as a preview of the consumer unit.

Guess it makes sense, but we live in false hope! Ha