That's actually true. If you are a hardware manufacturer and want to get into the VR game, OpenVR (or OSVR) are pretty much your only viable choices. And of those, only the former has a sizeable library of games being created for it.
The High-end VR Discussion Thread (HTC Vive, Oculus Rift, Playstation VR)
- Thread starter Cartman86
- Start date
DOT DASH DOT
Member
Krej, would you say the picture that the dev posted on Reddit is a fair approximation of the actual resolution of the Vive? I realise it's of the Rift, but obviously they are the same res. I'd be quite happy if it is.
Zalusithix
Member
From what I understand the FoV of the Vive is taller. This would be particularly useful when walking around in room scale.
You're only considering the rendering side. There's also the challenge of getting that signal it to the display. 4k (as in 3840x2160) per eye at 90hz requires a lot of bandwidth. You're not getting that down a single cable without compression, and I doubt anybody wants another cable going from their computer to the headset.
So to to get compression (DSC) we need Displayport 1.4. Now the problem: there's absolutely no gear out there right now supporting Displayport 1.4, so going to such a high resolution right away would invalidate the use of all existing hardware. Given the 1.4 standard was just finished in March of this year, it's highly doubtful that even the first models of the new generation of GPUs will support it.
You don't want your generational jump to alienate so much of the market - particularly if this is going to happen in the next couple of years. The next set of headsets should have a more reasonable increase. There's a huge number of options that fall between our current ~1k x 1k resolutions and 4k. Even moving up to ~2k per eye would effectively be doubling our horizontal and vertical resolution (at the cost of rendering 4x the number of pixels).
UnrealEck
Member
Yeah I read that they're pushing (developers) for it to be seated or standing and with 180 degree angle focused on.
It's turning me off it a bit because I think 360 degrees and moving around a little is what's going to offer potential for a better experience.
I wish I could replace my April Rift for an April Vive. I'd probably just switch.
I don't think Vive is superior in every way but I think it's offering (and seemingly pushing for) a more wider range of game type support right out of the gate.
I'm not him, but what you need to realize when you think about resolution and VR is that it's exceedingly difficult to give an accurate representation of what it's resolution is like on a traditional screen. The very reason the resolution issues exist is because the image is shown at a 100-110° (depending on HMD) FoV, and that's what a monitor can't replicate.
I mean, it would be possible to do something like a program which you tell the size of your screen and your seating distance to, and then it creates an approximation of what the area of your monitor would look like in a VR headset. But I don't think anyone has done that yet.
To me 2-3 years seems like a long time for 2.0-ing these first gen devices.. I'm paying a lot for these things but I would be disappointed by having to wait well before 2-3 years..
bigwinnerx
Member
Anyone else in a position where they need to or have changed Vive payment info?
My CC was flagged for fraud after I pre-ordered. That number (not the account) is supposed to be disabled/canceled, but, my wife accidentally put through an Amazon order on the "old" number and it just showed up at the house. So, it must still be turned on somewhere somehow.
That said, I'm probably going to need to contact HTC and change to the new number, but, I've also read that's a problematic process.
My CC was flagged for fraud after I pre-ordered. That number (not the account) is supposed to be disabled/canceled, but, my wife accidentally put through an Amazon order on the "old" number and it just showed up at the house. So, it must still be turned on somewhere somehow.
That said, I'm probably going to need to contact HTC and change to the new number, but, I've also read that's a problematic process.
UnrealEck
Member
I'd love to compare the optics and the SDE between Rift and Vive.
I hadn't even factored this into my choice between the two really and it's a pretty substantial point. However I have a feeling the difference between them will be quite minor.
How I wish Rift had 360 degree tracking, the head-mounted camera and Chaperone system along with Touch at launch. It'd just seal the deal.
I have a feeling the lack of the Chaperone system on Rift is a factor in why they're shying away from room-scale. I hope they decide to bring Rift in-line with Vive for room-scale when Touch launches.
Saw this on Reddit about 360 degree Oculus Touch with opposing tracking points.
I hadn't even factored this into my choice between the two really and it's a pretty substantial point. However I have a feeling the difference between them will be quite minor.
How I wish Rift had 360 degree tracking, the head-mounted camera and Chaperone system along with Touch at launch. It'd just seal the deal.
I have a feeling the lack of the Chaperone system on Rift is a factor in why they're shying away from room-scale. I hope they decide to bring Rift in-line with Vive for room-scale when Touch launches.
Saw this on Reddit about 360 degree Oculus Touch with opposing tracking points.
Zalusithix
Member
3 years is a bit much. 1 year is too fast. Assuming we're not doing partial years, 2 years seems good.
We're in a risky period right now. We can't afford to have the VR landscape stagnate, but at the same time overzealous iteration of hardware on the consumer side can be just as detrimental. Unless they have some sort of trade in / trade up policy (unlikely), going too quickly will annoy many of the early adopters and discourage the more casually interested people from jumping in. They'll start thinking (even more than they do now) "Well, I'll just wait for the improved version in a few months. No point on spending the money on something that'll be obsolete so soon."
I think you probably could switch - I'm sure some retailers will have a few vives in April (they do in the UK so you could possibly jump the queue)
Most frustrating thing is lack of info around availability. No shipping date info from oculus or HTC other than early/late April in the US or nothing for those of us in Europe. I half expect the first we hear is someone posting on Reddit that their rift arrived.
Same with in-store preorders. When I had my vive demo they offers me a preorder, but no idea of the date. If they could have guaranteed a day one unit I would have thrown my money at them.
Chaperone is supported on OR with steam VR, it's just the oculus home version that doesn't. It should be trivial for them to add that in and they almost certainly will in time for touch launch
Touch worries me only because we don't know what it'll be. Ideally they will support room scale but even then you have more complicated logistics to deal with the camera cables.
I might just go vive this time and then in 2 years when OR2.0 comes out - hopefully with a lighthouse type tracking setup) I'll be happy to get that if their touch controllers are better and their optics and ergonomics are still superior. Vive so far seems a safer pair of hands as you know what you're getting, even if that does mean slightly worse controllers/optics/comfort/SDE. And by 'worse' I mean 'entirely fine, just nitpicking really'
I was sure I'd read and seen it mentioned that PSVRs screen was curved, after furious googling I must have been imagining it, sorry about that!
As for what drives PSVR vs PC, yeah definitely the PC solutions will be better in most cases, unless someones using lower than recommended specs. I still think the way people are talking, as if to dismiss PSVR as operating in the same ball park is incredibly disingenuous. Most of the VR games shown off for the Rift or Vive have relatively basic graphics as well, and games like Rigs are pushing above their weight, certainly better looking than many expected possible in PSVR, what with all the talk of early PS3 or even PS2 level graphics lol.
PSVR is not that far behind PCVR. I'm sure that will change in a couple of years or so of course. The quality of the VR experiences is no worse than Rift or Vive, it's not like Gear VR or something. Vive has more foolproof tracking but Rift is much the same. It's still true VR on PSVR.
As for what drives PSVR vs PC, yeah definitely the PC solutions will be better in most cases, unless someones using lower than recommended specs. I still think the way people are talking, as if to dismiss PSVR as operating in the same ball park is incredibly disingenuous. Most of the VR games shown off for the Rift or Vive have relatively basic graphics as well, and games like Rigs are pushing above their weight, certainly better looking than many expected possible in PSVR, what with all the talk of early PS3 or even PS2 level graphics lol.
PSVR is not that far behind PCVR. I'm sure that will change in a couple of years or so of course. The quality of the VR experiences is no worse than Rift or Vive, it's not like Gear VR or something. Vive has more foolproof tracking but Rift is much the same. It's still true VR on PSVR.
UnrealEck
Member
How would the Chaperone work without the camera? Just use the tracking points as the boundaries and then set the scale of the rest of the room from that?
I didn't even know they were selling Vive in brick and mortar stores. I'll need to have a look. I know they've got demos set up around a few places in England but not in Scotland.
Chaperone does not use the camera. The only benefit the camera offers is the video pass through feed (which admittedly is awesome). Chaperone is configured manually during the initial setup of your play space, and just draws 3D gridlines on your screen when you are approaching the boundary.
UnrealEck
Member
I thought it was also used to show real-world objects in the virtual world when they get too close.
I guess that's one less thing to worry about though if Rift will likely have a similar boundaries system in future.
I agree with most of what you said with regards to things like PSVR games still looking quite good.
But I can't agree with the above quote if we're going by technical on-paper specs of the entire VR systems. You said yourself, even the lowest spec for the Rift and Vive are a GTX 970 which is likely to offer better graphics.
Chaperone doesn't use the camera. I don't know how it happened but a lot of people seem to think the camera is a pet/obstacle detector.
On the vive, when you're setting it up you define your play space by physically clicking a controller in the corners to create a bounding rectangle. Then if your controller or headset approaches those defined bounds, it fades in the camera view to warn you.
If you out the vive on and then I sneak into the room and stand in front of you - you will bump into me. The state has nothing detecting me. In theory they could use the camera to do some basic object collision warning and I think i read something about them experimenting with that, but chaperone doesn't use that.
On OR you would have to define the bounds manually as you don't have touch controllers, and the chaperone boundary will be the grid walls that they originally had on the vive before they added the camera.
Note that this was from a valve employee talking about how it'd work on OR
Yeah. Nothing in Scotland. If you wanted I'd be happy to pop a preorder in at reading PC world. Pretty sure you'd get one in April (possibly even early April)
DOT DASH DOT
Member
I'm about 1 hour 20 minutes away from Reading where they have one, I'd love to go and try it, just don't know if I've got the time before it ships.
Zalusithix
Member
The Vive doesn't do it, but at some point in the future I expect all the VR headsets will have two front facing cameras and some basic onboard processing of them to compute a rough depth map of what they're looking at. Then they'll fire off warnings when you're approaching something that isn't defined in the hard bounds. This will also allow the headsets to pull double duty as AR sets
I really expected this to happen on CV1, given the very early concept picture had front-facing cameras. It must be more difficult in practice than I thought it would be.
Or they simply decided not to include it since they designed the Rift exclusively for stationary experiences anyway.
InaudibleWhispa
Member
Not quite, PSVR has a single camera position and the camera has a narrower FOV. 2 camera tracking for Touch will essentially cover most if not all of the room, with body occlusion being the only real concern.
UnrealEck
Member
Thanks for the offer. I'm best waiting because I haven't made up my mind completely on the Vive yet.
If time runs out, it runs out. I'll still end up with the Rift and just have to settle. I doubt I'll be too bothered in the end.
If you're set on vive then I'd leave it and keep that 'day one magic'. I went to try it out to see what the fuss was about as I can't decide which to keep. I was happy enough with the optical quality but it wasn't super comfortable to wear (felt surprisingly like a DK1 - just some crappy elastic straps)
Motion controls and room scale are awesome though.
- space pirate trainer and dodging incoming fire convinced me about standing and moving
- tiltbrush convinced me about motion controllers and how natural it is to judge their position in 3D space
Btw do you live in Madjeski Stadium? Didn't think there was any housing around there.
BlastProcessing
Member
It feels like a given that we will see a shockingly cheap Xiaomi HMD come out by next year.
DOT DASH DOT
Member
It's a Pre in store I'm guessing?
Hopefully!
As long as they don't produce bad devices I'd love to see the Huaweis and Xiaomis of the world get into VR. And as far as I know their smartphones are pretty solid.
habithipster
Member
What is the situation regarding existing games and which headsets they support? Eg
- dirt rally
- elite dangerous
- assetto corsa
- project cars
- minecrift mod
And probably others I can't remember right now.
Are they all going to work with both headsets, or mostly just OR for now due to earlier access to SDKs? If I go with vive I don't want to be stuck not being able to play games like these for weeks/months
Yes I assume so
- dirt rally
- elite dangerous
- assetto corsa
- project cars
- minecrift mod
And probably others I can't remember right now.
Are they all going to work with both headsets, or mostly just OR for now due to earlier access to SDKs? If I go with vive I don't want to be stuck not being able to play games like these for weeks/months
Yes I assume so
There's a lot of in this boat. A vendor reported my card compromised to the bank and they sent me a new card a few days after preordering. Previously, they were saying you were out of luck and would have to cancel, reorder and lose your place in the queue. They just put in a way to keep your place in queue, but you have to call and have a support ticket placed to HTC corporate who will then contact you to update the information. I am waiting for the call back from HTC corporate.
That's what I'm thinking - I had a demo at EGX last september, so it's not like I'm unsure if I like it or not.
I'll save the magic.
No, I actually live right near The Oracle, in the centre of town, but it's only a 10-15 min walk to the place where that PC World is from here
Felix Lighter
Member
Well Elite Dangerous already supports SteamVR.
Do they all look equally shit? Or one less so? 360 video and social interactions are where I see the most potential and would to know which one works the best.
Frozone
Member
Project Cars and Assetto should be good to go as well.
Frozone
Member
Same here.
Project CARS and Assetto don't currently have SteamVR support and afaik, as far as Project CARS goes, they've said it won't support it for launch.
artsi
Member
Assetto Corsa has barely updated the Oculus SDK version support, and no talk about SteamVR.
plagiarize
Banned
It was a couch.
viveks86
Member
They will come in due course, if the platform gains enough traction, which I think it will. Console generations struggle to have meaty launch titles, even though console gaming is a well established, fairly mainstream concept. We are just getting started with VR, so it will take a while before AAA devs are onboard with games of the scale and budget that you are referring to.
Star Citizen could be a start, but details have been sketchy so far
Yup. Pretty much why I'm keeping both preorders. I wanna play them all! :'(
Frozone
Member
Ah.. didn't realize they had to support the SteamVR in order for the game to work. I just assumed it was working like the DK2 kits did.
DOT DASH DOT
Member
I get what you mean, I'm just really wanting to give myself a comparison so I can say oh the Vive will have that kind of quality, and obviously that Rift shot would give me that. But like you say it's not really possible.
That is sort of what worries me. I see rail shooters and corridor racers, mini games etc and mostly games that look like they will become repetitive once the novelty of VR wears off.
I am not saying they are bad games. I am sure they are all fun but I don't see any killer app that makes me want to jump in yet.
djjinx2
Member
Wut. Please don't say you mean DC?
If you want a AAA game to experience day one, then you have to use Vorpx to play traditional games that werent made for VR like Skyrim, Doom 3, HL2, GTA5, etc.
Because they werent made for VR it's much more likely to make you sick however. (Wont stop me from trying it out though)
Maybe this is the year we finally find out why Magic Leap is valued at four and half billion dollars.
I want tracking to become something as taken for granted as mice. This goes back to hoping for open standards that many manufacturers can work with. For those with very particular demands then the option to go with a high-end variant is still there for the taking.
Aye, pretty big reason why I kept my Rift pre-order too.
viveks86
Member
That's normal. For early adopters, tech comes first, with the hope that content follows. The rest just need to wait till their "killer app" is out.
Having said that, I'm really excited for:
The Witness
Adr1ft
Project CARS
The Vanishing of Ethan Carter
The Talos Principle
Budget cuts
Eve: Valkyrie
Elite Dangerous
Everest
All of these are available this year, if not day 1. Whether one likes them or not is subjective. But they are certainly killer apps for me.
So can we expect a Grand Theft Auto or Elder Scrolls or Witcher or experiences like those games for VR anytime soon? Or should I wait a year or two?