The iPad/iPhone/iPod Touch Gaming |Thread4| NOT Doomed

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Wario64 said:
Pocket Planes tomorrow night. Oh fuck. RIP Vita and everything else

http://www.insidemobileapps.com/201...es/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
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Fucking dammit. Just as soon as I get going on P3P, and Gravity Rush and MGS HD Collection come, they pull this shit. Apple planned this.

I secretly hope I hate it. I liked Tiny Tower for about a week, then played it because I "had" to (all F2P games hook me this way as I'll never pay for IAP), then I came to my senses and deleted it after about a month.
 
I'm working on an official thread for Pocket Planes. Won't be incredibly detailed since I'm kind of busy but it'll stop us from cluttering this thread up with Pocket Planes talk once it comes out.
 
Flunkie said:
I secretly hope I hate it. I liked Tiny Tower for about a week, then played it because I "had" to (all F2P games hook me this way as I'll never pay for IAP), then I came to my senses and deleted it after about a month.
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That's describes my experience with it. Snoopy's Street Fair is still the only game of that type that has hooked me and only because of the Peanuts property.
 
LastWindow said:
That's describes my experience with it. Snoopy's Street Fair is still the only game of that type that has hooked me and only because of the Peanuts property.
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I play that about once every month, lol. For some reason, the notifications don't work for me and I always forget about it.

I'm currently trying out My Country and Magic Tree. Both are kinda meh, the edge slightly in Magic Tree's favor of me actually continuing on. I wish Stronghold Kingdoms for Steam was on iOS.
 
I don't understand the hype. Time management games like that just depress me with their sheer cynicism. It's just pure psychological calculation to keep players grinding and spending money as long as possible. No amount of charming pixel art can change that.
 
Mario said:
I know you want more general commentary on iOS dev viability, but some quick comments below on things you could do that might help Brainsss specifically (excuse me if I come across a little blunt)

- your icon needs to stand out more and be more polished. It is too muted amongst other icons on the store.

- the first line of your iTunes App Store text should be a creative/marketing line which tries to hook the player in and speaks to what the game is, not a compatibility warning.

- put some text callouts on your App Store screenshots that highlight the features of the game (you note screens are an issue on the website already).

- a $2.99 price point is a tough ask as a paid download. Plants vs Zombies can get away with it because it has brand recognition and Popcap's traffic behind it. You should experiment with pricing such as dropping your game to 99c or free (given you have IAP). It doesn't appear like you have done so yet via AppShopper.

- if you aren't converting many people with the IAP, consider dropping the price points of the IAP drastically.

- if you do end up switching your game to free, try to have an update out there first which includes Facebook and Twitter functionality to improve virality.

- beyond that, the paid model is in general becoming harder and harder on the App Store. You may consider moving your game free to play permanently over time. Any new apps I would design with that business model in mind.

- if you can get your game across to other platforms like Android for a low incremental cost, then you should consider doing so (I note you mention this on the website).


In general, the App Store (and mobile in a broader sense) is becoming a harder market because consumer expectations and the quality bar for entry and value for money are going up. It is becoming increasingly competitive.

In order to be successful, you need to think about your business holistically rather than one game at a time. Think about each game and how the design supports the business model and vice versa, how you can fund multiple products to build up a portfolio, think about how those products can build and share a userbase, and think about how that content can be leveraged to deliver increasing revenues over time.

You've learned a lot from your first title, so use that to improve this game and have a better start to the next.

Hope this helps.
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Thanks for the advice Mario. I think what your company is doing is a much better approach to iOS development. You guys seem to be releasing a new game every few months, which means a constant stream of revenue.

From your experience, do you find going free to play makes just as much money as being a paid app? I know there are big titles like Jetpack Joyride and Temple Run that generate a lot of money, but those are the huge successes. I'm more curious about the average free to play game and the revenue it generates.
 
Munin said:
I don't understand the hype. Time management games like that just depress me with their sheer cynicism. It's just pure psychological calculation to keep players grinding and spending money as long as possible. No amount of charming pixel art can change that.
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Don't play it, then.

As stated a million times before, Tiny Tower isn't really like that. Sure, it's grinding basically, but it never encourages you to spend money or slows the game down so much that there's no other option. It is the least "cynical" game of its type in existence and that's really not a brush you can tar it with.
 
Pastry said:
I'm working on an official thread for Pocket Planes. Won't be incredibly detailed since I'm kind of busy but it'll stop us from cluttering this thread up with Pocket Planes talk once it comes out.
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Nice, it's the best way to go considering the circular discussion this type of game incites, even in the Tiny Tower OT we'd have randoms coming in just to whine about how pointless it was and how they were ashamed of spending even 5 minutes with it. Don't worry too much about keeping up with the updates and such, just having some info about the game in the OP is enough and the thread kind of takes care of itself.
 
Fuu said:
Nice, it's the best way to go considering the circular discussion this type of game incites, even in the Tiny Tower OT we'd have randoms coming in just to whine about how pointless it was and how they were ashamed of spending even 5 minutes with it. Don't worry too much about keeping up with the updates and such, just having some info about the game in the OP is enough and the thread kind of takes care of itself.
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Pocket Planes OT is up now: http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=478141
 
I'll probably obsessively play Pocket Planes for two weeks until I feel manipulated and used and delete it from my iPod, just like I did with Tiny Tower.
 
fooyee said:
From your experience, do you find going free to play makes just as much money as being a paid app? I know there are big titles like Jetpack Joyride and Temple Run that generate a lot of money, but those are the huge successes. I'm more curious about the average free to play game and the revenue it generates.
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It varies from game to game. We still have a large portion of our portfolio as paid titles, though most upcoming ones are free to play.

To give one example I've mentioned before though, each of our Flick Kick games has a free ad supported feature/content limited version. When Flick Kick Field Goal was #6 in the US paid chart in November after a fortunate Thanksgiving weekend promotion, the free version Flick Kick Field Goal Kickoff was generating 2 to 3 times as much revenue daily.

In general the paid and free versions of those games make roughly the same amount each day to day, though if the free versions had the same level of content and functionality as the paid versions they would probably be making a lot more.

For the games already in the slate to publish later in the 9 months we have

- an OIP which is F2P with IAP and likely Kiip rewards
- an OIP which is F2P with ad support
- a branded title which is F2P with IAP and ads
- a paid licensed title with additional IAP
- a licensed title which is F2P with IAP and sponsorships

So, you can see we are heavily leaning towards F2P as a model, though experimenting with it and hedging in different ways. Part of our ability to succeed with this model though is we have a large existing active user base that we can drive to new releases to build a critical mass audience.


Edit: a couple of our senior guys are doing a live stream Q&A talking about the making of Monsters Ate My Condo. On now https://www.facebook.com/mediadesignschool/app_450898481606617
 
The sad thing about this freemium trend is that it will keep changing the perception of value to even more unhealthy levels , so people will be increasingly resistant to pay for games until premium titles have no chance whatsoever.

Or maybe the audience who don't like the freemium model is strong enough to support a range of games on a paid model that suddenly doesn't have as many competitors. Hopefully some devs will keep trying to cater to that niche. Who knows, maybe the freemium market will become so bloated, more fierce and competitive that a balanced offering will be sustained.
 
heringer said:
The sad thing about this freemium trend is that it will keep changing the perception of value to even more unhealthy levels , so people will be increasingly resistant to pay for games until premium titles have no chance whatsoever.

Or maybe the audience who don't like the freemium model is strong enough to support a range of games on a paid model that suddenly doesn't have as many competitors. Hopefully some devs will keep trying to cater to that niche. Who knows, maybe the freemium market will become so bloated, more fierce and competitive that a balanced offering will be sustained.
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I'm not as worried about freemium as most. I think the genre will evolve positively and I think premium titles will still have a place.
 
Mario said:
It varies from game to game. We still have a large portion of our portfolio as paid titles, though most upcoming ones are free to play.

To give one example I've mentioned before though, each of our Flick Kick games has a free ad supported feature/content limited version. When Flick Kick Field Goal was #6 in the US paid chart in November after a fortunate Thanksgiving weekend promotion, the free version Flick Kick Field Goal Kickoff was generating 2 to 3 times as much revenue daily.

In general the paid and free versions of those games make roughly the same amount each day to day, though if the free versions had the same level of content and functionality as the paid versions they would probably be making a lot more.

For the games already in the slate to publish later in the 9 months we have

- an OIP which is F2P with IAP and likely Kiip rewards
- an OIP which is F2P with ad support
- a branded title which is F2P with IAP and ads
- a paid licensed title with additional IAP
- a licensed title which is F2P with IAP and sponsorships

So, you can see we are heavily leaning towards F2P as a model, though experimenting with it and hedging in different ways. Part of our ability to succeed with this model though is we have a large existing active user base that we can drive to new releases to build a critical mass audience.



Edit: a couple of our senior guys are doing a live stream Q&A talking about the making of Monsters Ate My Condo. On now https://www.facebook.com/mediadesignschool/app_450898481606617
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NAMES MAN WE WANT NAMES. j/k, I'm sure they'll be awesome anyway. :P
 
The balance should bounce back at some point.
What personally worries me though (and its rare someone talks about that) is how too many free games with IAPs or F2P games are broken in game design in order to push players to buy stuff.

To me this is the one and most important negative thing that is happening in the industry right now. I truly believe that games should be designed just as they were before but that money could let you buy anything or progress faster at any time. No need to put artificial and frustrating bullshit to force players. Game design should NEVER get broken and a game should be fun and solid as is. Another solution could be to offer an alternate version following the traditional model (one time fee) that is not broken.
 
Smiley90 said:
NAMES MAN WE WANT NAMES.
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Details?

Games variously feature a rabbit (kind of, in a supporting role), a mollusc, the undead, baked goods, and balls. Mostly arcadey in nature with a bit of endless runner-ish, racing, shooting, swipey type stuff sprinkled in.

Hope that clears things up.
 
Mario said:
Details?

Games variously feature a rabbit (kind of, in a supporting role), a mollusc, the undead, baked goods, and balls. Mostly arcadey in nature with a bit of endless runner-ish, racing, shooting, swipey type stuff sprinkled in.

Hope that clears things up.
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kirkpoutdosentknowhowhefeelsaboutth.gif
 
I jsut got an iPad for graduation, had an iphone for 3 years now. Is there a way I can have saves from games go from one device to another? For instance I like playing gamedev story, is it possible to play on my ipad then turn on my iphone and pickup where I left off?

Also what's some of your guys games recommendations? My favorite game I play the most is drop 7.
 
I don't see the huge thrill of Pocket Planes on its own. I understand it's the spiritual successor of Tiny Tower, but I'm not sold on it yet. Tiny Tower only lasted a few days on my iPhone.

Mayb the social aspects will save it, though.
 
bucknuticus said:
I jsut got an iPad for graduation, had an iphone for 3 years now. Is there a way I can have saves from games go from one device to another? For instance I like playing gamedev story, is it possible to play on my ipad then turn on my iphone and pickup where I left off?

Also what's some of your guys games recommendations? My favorite game I play the most is drop 7.
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Get the Touch Arcade app to follow new releases (as well as this thread). There are SO many suggestions that outline your question in this thread - search around and you'll find wonderful and complete "must-have" lists.

And to your first question, some games have iCloud saving, some do not. Most of the time, I think you have to transfer the save manually (if it's an option) via iTunes and your computer.
 
nicoga3000 said:
Get the Touch Arcade app to follow new releases (as well as this thread). There are SO many suggestions that outline your question in this thread - search around and you'll find wonderful and complete "must-have" lists.

And to your first question, some games have iCloud saving, some do not. Most of the time, I think you have to transfer the save manually (if it's an option) via iTunes and your computer.
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Will check out all that. Thanks, appreciate it!
 
OhCube got an updateband it controls much much better now. Still not as good as Picross 3d obviously, but it is now extremely playable.
 
If you haven't already grabbed Monsters Ate My Condo for free but wanted to, do so now. Will be going back to paid tomorrow.
 
heringer said:
The sad thing about this freemium trend is that it will keep changing the perception of value to even more unhealthy levels , so people will be increasingly resistant to pay for games until premium titles have no chance whatsoever.

Or maybe the audience who don't like the freemium model is strong enough to support a range of games on a paid model that suddenly doesn't have as many competitors. Hopefully some devs will keep trying to cater to that niche. Who knows, maybe the freemium market will become so bloated, more fierce and competitive that a balanced offering will be sustained.
Click to expand...

Yeah, this is a good point. Personally I don't really like F2P games for a number of reasons. Firstly, they're usually of the bitesize 30 second level, three stars variety and I am bored to hell of that style of game. But also, for me, I find that I'm not driven to play free games in the same way I am driven to play games I've paid for. I like to get my money's worth and play games through to completion, but I don't find the same drive with F2P games at all.

Really, I think it's worrying for the iOS landscape that the games making the big money are all these very similarly structured puzzle-style experiences. IMO, the mainstream have decided this is something that they like but it has a chilling effect on the variety of genres, especially where sales are concerned. And at the same time, I feel that the big hitters give a false picture of the iOS market. Yes, Angry Birds and co might sell millions but I really believe they are total flukes with a very low chance of happening again. But what it's done is it's distorted views of what is possible on iOS, and so now there is a goldrush of people looking for an audience that probably doesn't exist to the extent they think they do.

Anyway, this is all very complicated and I think I'm losing sight of my point :P basically, I'm just concerned that there isn't the market for the games I'd like to play, or if there is it's very very small compared the the big boys, and compared to the money devs want to make from their games.
 
I have the new iPad, does the HD version of Galaxy on Fire 2 make a huge difference? Or should I just buy the SD version? Only the SD one is on sale, and with the sale price, the HD one is quite a bit more expensive.
 
Any games out there like Dungeon Raid? My girlfriend's got heavily back into that again, but it's a shame it hasn't been updated in so long - the core gameplay is awesome but the surroundings (classes, levelling up etc) is terrible

Tempted by Adventurer Workshop as it looks to have similar core gameplay, but with extra polish and charm
 
PaulLFC said:
I have the new iPad, does the HD version of Galaxy on Fire 2 make a huge difference? Or should I just buy the SD version? Only the SD one is on sale, and with the sale price, the HD one is quite a bit more expensive.
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visually it's night and day. Like comparing dreamcast to current gen.

i heard the HD one has performance issues on new ipad though.
 
Thanks for the replies.

Think I'll stick with the SD version as although the HD graphics are a lot nicer, I'm more bothered about the gameplay of it. HD is £6.99 right now as opposed to 69p, if I like the game enough I can always pick the HD version up when it's cheaper.
 
chickdigger802 said:
visually it's night and day. Like comparing dreamcast to current gen.

i heard the HD one has performance issues on new ipad though.
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on the new ipad you can pick between the old ipad 2 res or the new retina, and in retina mode it runs as choppy as dog shit. The improved visuals are very nice but you really have to play it in the older res especially in big firefights.
 
Community Forum said:
UGlMZ.png


http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/swipe-magazine/id531140965?mt=8

There's a new digital iOS gaming magazine for iPad that is pretty cool. Free, and it is interactive like the new Edge magazine. Haven't had time to read the whole thing yet but it looks to be really well done.

kNOoY.jpg
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Oh, you have to be fucking kidding me. If you're going to release something for free and want to expand your market, why restrict it to iPad? Surely it's possible to reformat the pages (or have them zoomable or something) to work with a 4S?

ARGH. That shits me.
 
Shaneus said:
Oh, you have to be fucking kidding me. If you're going to release something for free and want to expand your market, why restrict it to iPad? Surely it's possible to reformat the pages (or have them zoomable or something) to work with a 4S?

ARGH. That shits me.
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lol @ reading on an iPhone. I see people doing it on my commute too, it's silly. Can you imagine how fucked the layout of a mag would need to be to be readable on a phone?

Just like Geoff Keighly's excellent Final Hours apps, some shit makes no sense on a phone.
 
Gaaraz said:
Any games out there like Dungeon Raid? My girlfriend's got heavily back into that again, but it's a shame it hasn't been updated in so long - the core gameplay is awesome but the surroundings (classes, levelling up etc) is terrible

Tempted by Adventurer Workshop as it looks to have similar core gameplay, but with extra polish and charm
Click to expand...

Check out the lite version of Sword and Poker.
 
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