-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
The Kiseki / Trails (of the Sky/Zero/Ao/Sen/Etc) Community Thread: SPOILERTAGS OR DIE
- Thread starter Bebpo
- Start date
Astral Dog
Member
Go Tell Aunt Rhody Go Tell Aunt Rhody
R_thanatos
Member
Does anyone have the roster of this game ? i'm intrested
I feel pretty bad for XSEED. They were some of the firsts to get stuff on Steam, but lately it seems they are really struggling. Hopefully it won't have some bad consequences.
I wonder how much Tokyo Xanadu will do in comparison. Probably more given that it's a new game.
CrichtonKicks
Member
What numbers are you thinking of? Because short of the SE juggernauts, it feels like Trails games are doing pretty comparable to other well received JRPGs in the West.
I don't know- FC has sold over 200k on Steam. I think that's pretty amazing. And it's still selling, almost certainly from a combo of increasing interest in the series in general or people specifically going back after playing CS.
I know that popularity on Neogaf doesn't equal popularity in general but it's remarkable just looking at interest on this forum grow over the past half decade or so. The original PSP Trails release OT only ever made it to 25 pages. Meanwhile the Cold Steel OTs are above 100 pages each.
SC continues to sell at a slow but steady clip too.
I think that if XSeed can afford to stay in this for the long haul then this will ultimately be a very successful series for them. It's just never going to be an overnight sensation.
I would love a comment from them on how well Cold Steel has done compared to expectations. My gut feeling is that it's done pretty well and that reception may have been what lead to the miracle of 3rd's localization.
It's a niche JRPG series so it won't ever get popular. 200k are pretty amazing but sadly I doubt most people even finished it or started it.
It looks popular because GAF has a lot of JRPG players, but I doubt the series will even reach SMT level of popularity. (Let alone Persona)
It looks popular because GAF has a lot of JRPG players, but I doubt the series will even reach SMT level of popularity. (Let alone Persona)
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
A lot of that has to do with their marketing. A Japanese game on Steam is nothing special anymore and XSEED's approach to releasing something on Steam is effective silence until a release date announcement weeks before release. And everything is preaching to the choir because it doesn't spread far beyond their social media. Occasionally a place like Kotaku or an RPG site might get an interview or something.
That isn't really the problem with Trails though. Trails is just suffering for being a tightly woven series, FC has sold fine, but people aren't finishing it so they don't have reason to buy or play SC. Valve killing impulse buys by removing daily and flash deals also doesn't help.
CrichtonKicks
Member
Say what? SMT4 opened to approximately 60-70k. Don't know what lifetime sales are there but they are certainly going to be comparable to FC.
SMT Nocture's LTD sales were 60k. That was back in 2009 but well after the PS2 lifespan had ended so the only change since then would be the digital release on PS3.
Also, looking into it, Cold Steel must have done pretty well. In the announcement PR for 3rd a year ago, XSeed announced that Trails series had sold 350k LTD at that point in the West. FC must have been about 200k of that which would have put Cold Steel 1 well over 100k all by itself since IIRC SC was less than 20k at that point.
Nightengale
Member
Before any of that, I'd like Trails to get >30 reviews on Metacritic, please.
Games like Trails are played by too few influencers to even be worth a discussion point by any site that isn't RPG-centric or already within the niche already. Even someone like Jason who's a key influencer for Trails hasn't even completed Cold Steel 2 to publish a review out.
It needs to figure out how to break the perception among many outlets that this is a review that they can skip on making.
Games like Trails are played by too few influencers to even be worth a discussion point by any site that isn't RPG-centric or already within the niche already. Even someone like Jason who's a key influencer for Trails hasn't even completed Cold Steel 2 to publish a review out.
It needs to figure out how to break the perception among many outlets that this is a review that they can skip on making.
Thanks for the Fie keychain PK.
CrichtonKicks
Member
To do that it will take a timely localization on a current gen console that is also newcomer friendly.
So CS3 probably probably won't hit that mark because it won't be newcomer friendly.
Insert I've made a huge mistake.gif
I'll have a Valimar one, thanx
Holundrian
Unconfirmed Member
*double post somehow sry*
Holundrian
Unconfirmed Member
I feel like the FC 200k are a bit deceiving given the nature of sales and the low numbers of people actually finishing the game.
In my opinion judging by numbers of other JRPGs and musing about the possible size of the overlapping audience I would love to see Trails at a place where each titles does a 100k stable. Not sure if that's too much as an estimate? To me it doesn't seem so given the numbers Tales, FF, Persona and what not can reach in the west it seems like a feasible goal for now.
But then I don't know the Cold Steel numbers for both titles.
Maybe SC is the odd game out and really is hampered by people not finishing FC.
But yes I also totally agree that Trails needs to be a more long time endeavor if it wants to succeed in the west and I consider ourselves lucky that we have passionate believers/fans of the series that fighting to make it happen so shout out to the good people that work hard to bring the games over and with such good translations as well(saying this as someone that's not reliant on that but it's always nice if good series become popular).
If this is true that is very encouraging.
Yeah agreed I definitely think more reviews on the games would definitely help.
I feel like Ben Moore from EZA might do a few of them if he ever has the time(so with the staaaacked review calendar in 2017
def not in 2017). Jokes aside I think I'm going to mention in the EZA thread that due the nature of the series where people are encouraged going back that even late reviews on the older games might be worth it, well once he finished CSI(he was/is playing among various other things) and seeing if he has any plans for that.
CrichtonKicks
Member
Just looking at Steam real quick: 12% of players finished FC. 9.5% finished Final Fantasy 9, 16% finished Tales of Zesteria and Final Fantasy 13. If Zesteria had a direct sequel starting moments after Zesteria 1 ended then it would probably have a similar drop off from FC->SC.
EDIT- SC has a completion rate of 33% which is really high but not surprising given that you are already clearly a pretty committed fan to even be playing it.
Here's the thing- none of those other series have direct sequels in the way that FC->SC functions. You can skip Persona 1-3 and play Persona 4 just fine. Same with P5 when that comes. Same with Final Fantasy, etc. Even though Beseria is a prequel, no one is going to tell you that you need to play Zesteria first.
Think of it this way- what would you say if someone asked you "I only played the first chapter in FC but never finished it for whatever reason, should I go ahead and play SC?" Personally, I would say "No. Not worth it if you haven't finished FC." SC is always going to be gated by FC's completion rate. No way around it.
R_thanatos
Member
I'd want to play that
CertifiedFP
Member
So, I'm at a Brick Wall in my TiTS playthrough by the name of RNG Hitler. Just kidding there, I just wanted to throw that term out there that I meant to say when XCOM 2 was fresh, but didn't have the opportunity to. But yeah, I'm in the forced story battle in Zeiss that involves a
Did I not grind enough? Because if so, I'm being hit with a stark reminder of why I avoided JRPGs not called Final Fantasy pre-Dark Souls.
horde of high-stat enemies and my ace in the hole conveniently yoinked from the party - Yay, Fucking-With-The-Party-Composition, my favorite JRPG trope (/s)
Did I not grind enough? Because if so, I'm being hit with a stark reminder of why I avoided JRPGs not called Final Fantasy pre-Dark Souls.
Holundrian
Unconfirmed Member
Not sure what's your level compared to the enemies? If it's withing 2 levels +/- things should honestly be fine, most things can be solved with the proper orb and accessory setup. Trails isn't generally a very grind requiring game due to the nature of where the real power spikes come from. Levels are not generally that important.
I don't remember thought if leaving party members leave their equipment/quartz with you cause that might be a little bit tricky.
clay_ghost
Member
Thanks.
Can't really break a perception that's largely valid though. When the fan base is as niche as Trails seems to be, the people that are going to buy the game are going to regardless of the presence (or lack thereof) of published criticism. And while it's nice to introduce your readers to things they might not normally engage with, the 90 hours a writer spends on Cold Steel could be put into a literal dozen other games that could be equally if not more interesting, accomplishing the same goal tenfold.
I dunno, I love Trails and I'd love for more people to play it, but it's not a great proposition for working writers/editors. That's a shame, but I do think it's reasonable.
LimitedTimeGamer
Member
I got a Advertisement flyer for YS VIII and Sen No Kiseki 3 in the mail with some CD's i bought, but apparently there is a new Screenshot for Sen 3 on there?
https://twitter.com/LimitTimeGamer/status/817574425205739520
I could be wrong, but i didnt find anything, so i thought id get gafs opinion.
https://twitter.com/LimitTimeGamer/status/817574425205739520
I could be wrong, but i didnt find anything, so i thought id get gafs opinion.
Nightengale
Member
That screenshot with Blusis holding two swords is new.
FeelTheKick
Member
I am 50 hours into CS and after finishing it I am immediately buying CS2. I fucking love it.
nvm my bad L0l didnt see the screenies @ the btm
Maintenance
Member
Finished Second Chapter and immediately started Cold Steel I. To say that I'm disappointed would be the understatement of the year, I'm being choked to death with tropes, clichés and bad voice acting.
What the heck happened? SC was amazing, I loved every single moment of it. Got 100% on it as far as I remember (all the bracer points, all the monsters, all the fishes, all the recipes), and I would do it all over again if I could.
What the heck happened? SC was amazing, I loved every single moment of it. Got 100% on it as far as I remember (all the bracer points, all the monsters, all the fishes, all the recipes), and I would do it all over again if I could.
The very beginning of CS1 is by far the worst part with regard to what you mentioned. Keep playing. It gets much, much better.
Falcom got a lot of feedback from fans saying they liked the Jenis Royal Academy segment in FC/SC and thought, "Hey, what if we made a game that was just this one part everyone liked?"
The End.
Maintenance
Member
I will, CSI+II are the only LE / physical games I have for the Vita, even if I hate them I will finish.
CSI really doesn't have that much of that stuff outside of the beginning segment, and CSII has even less. The dub is also excellent for the most part.
I wouldn't assume you're going to hate them based off of what little you've played so far.
Maintenance
Member
I know, I was just saying that even if I might end up not liking them I'm staying until the credits. If this was any other dev/game I doubt I'd be this lenient, but after liking the other games so much I'm willing keep going.
JRA was one of the most boring parts to me. Trekking around was my favorite thing to do.
----
I hope TiTS:3rd doesn't disappoint me, pls be good.
Here's a question though. Why does this apply to Steam sales and not to Japanese sales? If Kiseki games being direct sequels are such a hard sell, how do they sell so consistently in Japan? Not only do the sales increase with each entry, but the increased sales reflect in catalog sales too, suggesting that fans who join with new entries go back and play the old games too.
My tip, you might want to buy and download CS II before finishing CS I.
You still have plenty of time to go do so too.
You played just when I am without a phone >.>
In my opinion, CS I was the weakest Trails game along with TitS FC. I might even put below FC because a lot of things I enjoyed in CS were because of little references of the Crossbell arc.
CS II is better, but I don't think I would put it above SC or the 3rd. I probably have been spoiled by Zero/Ao so a lot of the bigger moments I already knew to a point or weren't as exciting. I am still at the last dungeon of the game so who knows what the epilogue will do to change this opinion.
Maintenance
Member
You definitely missed it, I've been talking about the game (SC) in the group for weeks now.
3rd will absolutely not disappoint. It's one of the best games in the series, second only to Ao IMO. (And it has absolutely zero of what you're not liking about CSI)
Maintenance
Member
Thank god, I hope so. Shame about Zero and Ao, I would've loved to wait until they were out like I did with FC/SC/CSI/CSII but I couldn't postpone it anymore.
That's pretty much the structure. Don't get the impression that it's light on story, though - it's actually a very important game in the overall series narrative.
That's what we've been told but no one's ever really gone into detail, probably because spoilers. Like, do we have access to shops or is everything just found in chests (apparently 3rd has a shit ton more chests than even SC?). How many chapters? Does every single one take place in the forever dungeon? Are all the doors just cutscenes or can some be explored (like visiting a town, maybe)?
That sounds like...Persona 3: The Answer.
How fun is the gameplay? How many characters do you have access to?
Phone was stolen and just now I got a replacement >.>
I should be back in the group this next week.
Without going into spoilers, the 3rd is essentially a dungeon crawler. You do have access to a hub area where you can buy things and set up quartz.
While it could be considered a single dungeon, each area has a theme of sorts so there's some variety to it.
Some of the doors are pure text (usually expanding the lore of the series) while others are even playable and tell of the past or future of certain very important characters.
It's worth noting that the combat in this game is great, mostly because everyone is already super strong from the beginning.
Maintenance
Member
Damn, shame about the phone. Nice that you're already getting back, I'll see you there.
In order:
There are shops.
9 chapters including prologue and finale
Everything in the main story after the prologue takes place in the dungeon
Some are purely cutscenes, some have interaction (like visiting a town, as you said).
It's some of the best and most fully-featured gameplay in the series, along with Ao - though 3rd's structure facilitates its gameplay a lot better. There are ultimately
__16__
Nah I've talked to people who have finished it. I know what it's like. Doors are a bunch of differenr stuff. Some are just cutscenes. Some are playable events with towns from FC/SC. Etc. Basically there's a big dungeon with illusionary properties and they use that as an excuse to explore the past and untold stories of every character from FC and SC, while introducing new characters and events which are important for setting up more context for both Zero/Ao and CS storylines. It is a huge epilogue/appendix for Liberl as well as a bridge for the subsequent two story arcs.
But in terms of gameplay it's mostly a very very long dungeon crawler.
There are less hoarders in Japan, where people actually play the games they buy
I believe when we discussed this before, I mentioned that it felt like it came out of the same internal design philosophy as Ys Origin. The result is amazing, though. The doors vary the gameplay quite a lot.