redhairedking
Junior Member
I would highly recommend you just stop playing and go back and play the previous entries first. There is way too much to accurately summarize and you will be missing out on the experience.
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The Kiseki / Trails (of the Sky/Zero/Ao/Sen/Etc) Community Thread: SPOILERTAGS OR DIE
- Thread starter Bebpo
- Start date
I would highly recommend you just stop playing and go back and play the previous entries first. There is way too much to accurately summarize and you will be missing out on the experience.
distantmantra
Member
I don't feel like I really missed out on much by starting with Sen no Kiseki. Sure there were references that didn't mean anything to me, but it wasn't that hard to figure things out.
Well, Sen was made as newbie-friendly as possible to gather a new audience who haven't played the earlier games. The Sen-games themselves are fairly self-contained, but you lose lot of the world building, the historical lines, some references, but you can play it and enjoy it too.
distantmantra
Member
Exactly. I've seen some people online act like not playing everything before Sen is a crime against humanity.
kubricks
Member
May be the story is very good that's why people are so attach to it, it's a good sign.
Anyway, I will stick to Sen no Kiseki for now, I really like the combat and setting it makes no sense to abundant it. Will follow up with Sen No Kiseki II and If I ended up liking the series, I will definitely go back to all previous games.
By the way, I am starting on hard with no prior experience on the series (currently at CH1)... am I asking for trouble?
It's not like you will not get Sen. It's just that Sen will spoil part of the plot from the previous games, so playing those will be less interesting. If you have any interest at all in playing the previous games, I suggest you start from the beginning. That's my advice as a person who started playing the series after Sen has already come out. I stuck with Sora (even though without voice acting reading was pretty hard for me at first) and it was worth it.
But well, it's up to you. Play Sen first if you want, just don't be disappointed later.
But well, it's up to you. Play Sen first if you want, just don't be disappointed later.
What I frequently hear is that while Sen is perfectly playable to understandable, Sen II would be much more difficult to follow since it's intimately related to Zero and Ao. I can't judge from personal experience since I haven't even touched Sen yet, so I'm just paraphrasing others.
What I did play was up until the final chapter of Ao no Kiseki just a few minutes ago. The fourth chapter was one of the most intense experiences I've ever had in gaming and I loved the moment when everything 'clicks' into place. And then clicks into place even more with the mini-chapter that followed. Though as generic as the title may sound, it really is a Legend of Heroes.
kubricks
Member
Ok I will listen to you guys, will put down Sen for now and have a try on the previous games first.
Did some search on wiki, will it be ok, in terms of storywise, to just do the Crossbell story Arc? ie. Zero - Ao - Sen
I do understand it would be better to start from FC, but I just do not have so much time to play games, to put it in perspective it took my one whole year to complete P4G.
Did some search on wiki, will it be ok, in terms of storywise, to just do the Crossbell story Arc? ie. Zero - Ao - Sen
I do understand it would be better to start from FC, but I just do not have so much time to play games, to put it in perspective it took my one whole year to complete P4G.
Shouta
Member
Falcom wants folks to hop into Sen which is why they released it in Chinese and Korean as well.
What happens in Sen and Sen II are spoiler-ish but without knowledge of what's going on in that game, they're just going to be "Huh?! What's going on over there?" kind of stuff, especially Zero/Ao. Basically, the same reaction the characters will have in the game itself. I mean seriously, the big spoiler out of context is just dumb looking really.
Besides, playing Zero and Ao first actually spoils Sen for you as well. So there's no avoiding spoilers while playing the games at all after Sora. IMO, the impact of going Sen/Sen II first and then Zero/Ao is probably going to be less than going Zero/Ao => Sen/Sen II.
What happens in Sen and Sen II are spoiler-ish but without knowledge of what's going on in that game, they're just going to be "Huh?! What's going on over there?" kind of stuff, especially Zero/Ao. Basically, the same reaction the characters will have in the game itself. I mean seriously, the big spoiler out of context is just dumb looking really.
Besides, playing Zero and Ao first actually spoils Sen for you as well. So there's no avoiding spoilers while playing the games at all after Sora. IMO, the impact of going Sen/Sen II first and then Zero/Ao is probably going to be less than going Zero/Ao => Sen/Sen II.
Zero Evo
Just had my first crash, got real lucky and had just saved a battle before after taking out a quest monster. I thought they'd patched all the crashes out of Zero Evo? Kind of scary to have hard crashes in an rpg. Gonna save a lot more often now!
Did Ao Evo also have crashing problems or was it just Zero that's a bit buggy?
Just had my first crash, got real lucky and had just saved a battle before after taking out a quest monster. I thought they'd patched all the crashes out of Zero Evo? Kind of scary to have hard crashes in an rpg. Gonna save a lot more often now!
Did Ao Evo also have crashing problems or was it just Zero that's a bit buggy?
Hope it's really rare! I'm like 12 hours in, still in Chapter 1 (though probably towards the end of that chapter now). Was just a normal battle on the field and it crashed on the win pose.
Zero Evo
Finished Ch.1, my thoughts on the transition to Zero from the Sora trilogy so far:
Like:
+Status element countdown numbers. Man, I want this in all my rpgs! Now it becomes strategic because you can decide whether to wait out an ailment or use a turn healing it. Also seeing when buffs/debuffs expire is always helpful in rpgs. Love this addition.
+Music is godly. I don't know if it's just because Evo uses an arrange, but lots of real instruments and it makes it sound so much better than Sora. Love the Jazz saxophones.
+Very pretty game. Definitely a step up in visuals from Sora.
+Load times are fine.
+World is great, characters are great, story is great. Writing is as expected from the series.
+Voice acting is pretty good.
+
Neutral:
^On one hand I'm glad they finally fixed the broken "run = 100%" that I abused the hell out of in Sora by instantly running with no penalty every time I got back attacked. Now you actually have consequences from back attacks. But then you can use items so it's not a big deal, but if you don't use items much like me, you actually have to fight at a disadvantage.
^Not sure how I feel about going back to low power, low stat, limited magic characters starting from lvl.1 after playing The 3rd with characters in their lvl.80s/90s with all the best magics and huge EP banks and quartz. Even at 15 hours in, I'm running out of EP for my magic users on the field because they don't gain levels all that quickly and their EP stats are just pretty low and nobody really does insane damage so normal battles last a couple of turns (compared to The 3rd where every battle ends in 1-2 turns). It's kind of fun though because there's some added challenge and treasure surprise boss fights are decently intense.
^Battles system is good, but the turn order effects are missing a ton of effects in 3rd which made the battles awesome like Vanish. The new party rush is ok, it's mainly just a kill everything when you dizzy an enemy and surprise encounter them. Manipulating the turn order to land a party attack in boss fights is pretty tough because you can't land an S-break on it or have a spell cast on it.
Dislikes:
-Not a fan of the field attack/dizzy mechanic. The extra time to sneak up on enemies and dizzy them and run into them does make up for time in battle since with a party rush battles are 1-2 turns max, but I don't like the flow it introduces. I'd rather just run through the dungeon and hit battles along the way. Stopping and field attacking just feels disjointed.
-Hate the pop in. Enemies don't even appear visually on the map until you're like a few steps away from them. It's pretty annoying. Not sure why the game is having trouble with 2d enemies appearing on the map. It's also annoying with NPCs popping in, but that's really minor. The pop in monsters is pretty annoying.
-Fields feel a little slower because of the above field attacks, the battle introduction seems a second or two longer, battles last a few more turns than 3rd. Dungeons/fields just feel like they move a slower pace coming from The 3rd's dungeon pacing.
-Not big on monster chests in story progression being "too high level, come back later". Just make the fights to the level you're generally going to be at in the story. Don't like games where I need to keep track of all the stuff I couldn't open and go back later for it.
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Finished Ch.1, my thoughts on the transition to Zero from the Sora trilogy so far:
Like:
+Status element countdown numbers. Man, I want this in all my rpgs! Now it becomes strategic because you can decide whether to wait out an ailment or use a turn healing it. Also seeing when buffs/debuffs expire is always helpful in rpgs. Love this addition.
+Music is godly. I don't know if it's just because Evo uses an arrange, but lots of real instruments and it makes it sound so much better than Sora. Love the Jazz saxophones.
+Very pretty game. Definitely a step up in visuals from Sora.
+Load times are fine.
+World is great, characters are great, story is great. Writing is as expected from the series.
+Voice acting is pretty good.
Did they not get the same actors/actresses who did the battle voices in Sora for returning cast? Estelle sounds way different than I remember her battle lines sounding. Joshua is fine, Ren is ok, but Estelle just sounds a lot worse.
+
Enjoy the police detective work. It's fun, makes Lloyd a different character than Estelle and solving the mysteries with some player input is cool. I really enjoy the angle they went with kind of competing but different than the bracer guild.
Neutral:
^On one hand I'm glad they finally fixed the broken "run = 100%" that I abused the hell out of in Sora by instantly running with no penalty every time I got back attacked. Now you actually have consequences from back attacks. But then you can use items so it's not a big deal, but if you don't use items much like me, you actually have to fight at a disadvantage.
^Not sure how I feel about going back to low power, low stat, limited magic characters starting from lvl.1 after playing The 3rd with characters in their lvl.80s/90s with all the best magics and huge EP banks and quartz. Even at 15 hours in, I'm running out of EP for my magic users on the field because they don't gain levels all that quickly and their EP stats are just pretty low and nobody really does insane damage so normal battles last a couple of turns (compared to The 3rd where every battle ends in 1-2 turns). It's kind of fun though because there's some added challenge and treasure surprise boss fights are decently intense.
^Battles system is good, but the turn order effects are missing a ton of effects in 3rd which made the battles awesome like Vanish. The new party rush is ok, it's mainly just a kill everything when you dizzy an enemy and surprise encounter them. Manipulating the turn order to land a party attack in boss fights is pretty tough because you can't land an S-break on it or have a spell cast on it.
Dislikes:
-Not a fan of the field attack/dizzy mechanic. The extra time to sneak up on enemies and dizzy them and run into them does make up for time in battle since with a party rush battles are 1-2 turns max, but I don't like the flow it introduces. I'd rather just run through the dungeon and hit battles along the way. Stopping and field attacking just feels disjointed.
-Hate the pop in. Enemies don't even appear visually on the map until you're like a few steps away from them. It's pretty annoying. Not sure why the game is having trouble with 2d enemies appearing on the map. It's also annoying with NPCs popping in, but that's really minor. The pop in monsters is pretty annoying.
-Fields feel a little slower because of the above field attacks, the battle introduction seems a second or two longer, battles last a few more turns than 3rd. Dungeons/fields just feel like they move a slower pace coming from The 3rd's dungeon pacing.
-Not big on monster chests in story progression being "too high level, come back later". Just make the fights to the level you're generally going to be at in the story. Don't like games where I need to keep track of all the stuff I couldn't open and go back later for it.
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Not feeling the returning Sora trilogy characters so far. Estelle/Joshua/Ren all feel really out of place in this game so far. Like Ren, even writing-wise, feels like a different character personality than she was at the end of The 3rd. I'm sure they'll get integrated better as the game goes on and in Ao, but right now it feels like it's Lloyd & Crew's story, their world, and the returning characters don't really have a place in this world of Crossbell and are just there for cameo. I do have faith in Falcom to get it right.
ATXAlchemy
Member
Zero Evo chapters spoilers:
Unfortunately, in my opinion, they REALLY are different characters. I had that trust in Falcom (due to SC, and the 3rd), and it was slowly ground to bits in Zero Evo.
Don't worry, those will be back and this time with a good explanation. The effects in following games are treated in the same way as in Zero, so better get used to it.
You'll soon know what I mean.
ATXAlchemy
Member
Technically, it won't be spoilers for you. And definitely not story spoilers. Edit: At most it'll do is tell you what to expect
Ok, read it, ah that's a shame.
Kind of odd that returning characters are so out of character considering the new characters are all just as well written as the Sora trilogy cast. Maybe they'll get better at integrating old characters smoothly as the series goes on. I mean I expect the final series 10 years from now to have like every major character still alive in it, in some grand finale to the Kiseki franchise.
// +Status element countdown numbers.
Numbers are nice, but making all buffs work for only 3 turns means I stopped using them. Especially since starting and finishing the cast counts as separate turns. There is just no point to buff yourself if it will work for one and a half attack.
Not sure what your problem with the returning characters is.
I mean I am not a great fan of the story of Zero, but returning characters had nothing to do with that.
Numbers are nice, but making all buffs work for only 3 turns means I stopped using them. Especially since starting and finishing the cast counts as separate turns. There is just no point to buff yourself if it will work for one and a half attack.
Not sure what your problem with the returning characters is.
Ren acts the same as she did in 3rd. She is going to get some pretty stupid scenes, but that follows from 3rd directly. She... did not even do anything in the first chapter. What was your problem with her? Also it's funny you say she acts as a different character, because if you saw her door in 3rd...
And yes returning characters are cameos. They are going to get scenes, but this is not their story. Why should they not be cameos? They'd steal the show and solve everything by themselves if you let them.
Estelle has the same voice actress. I liked her voice, it suits her.
And yes returning characters are cameos. They are going to get scenes, but this is not their story. Why should they not be cameos? They'd steal the show and solve everything by themselves if you let them.
Estelle has the same voice actress. I liked her voice, it suits her.
kubricks
Member
Oh christ why is this so complicated! I just want to play a good game lol.
Regardless, I just carried on Sen for now and just got to Ch02.
On Hard difficulty and loving the challenge, the battle reminds me of Grandia.... what took me so long to discover this gem?!
About the recurring characters.
About that other recurring character.
I don't agree that the personalities of Estelle and Joshua have changed drastically. While Joshua is hard to judge, I think Estelle has grown naturally from the end of The 3rd to how she appears in Zero. Don't forget that their hardships didn't end after The 3rd; they went to Erebonia and had a rough experience there as well, as told by the manga Ring of Judgement, which ends with how they went up in Crossbell. It's totally worth the read.
About that other recurring character.
After The 3rd, even more about her past will become clear in Zero and the game will answer questions you've asked yourself and probably forgot about.
Zero Evo
Another thing I like about the battle system is the counter attack on missed attacks. Adds some new strategies with blinding enemies and doing a lot of counters. Also love the flame status effect, it's saving my ass SO MUCH in this early part of the game thanks to Randy's Salamander craft attack.
Also the game is surprisingly challenging still in chapter 2. I fought a bunch of little armadillo skunks and it was like an EPIC BOSS FIGHT from 3rd even with the best weapons/armor in the shop! Stuff hits for pretty decent damage, you can't do a ton of damage outside S-Breaks, HPs are low, EPs are low, status effect are problematic and fighting a whole bunch of enemies at once can be tough. I like this though. It's kind of nice not steamrolling everything in the game that's not a boss/quest boss like FC/SC/3rd.
And going through the Quartz list I notice some missing ones that were overpowered and amazing in Sora like the one where monsters can't see you and you walk past them all. That being said, it's still easy enough to avoid monsters when running around with the quartz that lets you see the dots on the map.
OH, and I strongly dislike that field quartz effects only work when leading the party with that character. It means I'm forced to throw all the field quartz on a single character and then they lose those slots for battle instead of having like 1 field quartz on each character in the Sora trilogy. Dislike this anti-player change
Another thing I like about the battle system is the counter attack on missed attacks. Adds some new strategies with blinding enemies and doing a lot of counters. Also love the flame status effect, it's saving my ass SO MUCH in this early part of the game thanks to Randy's Salamander craft attack.
Also the game is surprisingly challenging still in chapter 2. I fought a bunch of little armadillo skunks and it was like an EPIC BOSS FIGHT from 3rd even with the best weapons/armor in the shop! Stuff hits for pretty decent damage, you can't do a ton of damage outside S-Breaks, HPs are low, EPs are low, status effect are problematic and fighting a whole bunch of enemies at once can be tough. I like this though. It's kind of nice not steamrolling everything in the game that's not a boss/quest boss like FC/SC/3rd.
And going through the Quartz list I notice some missing ones that were overpowered and amazing in Sora like the one where monsters can't see you and you walk past them all. That being said, it's still easy enough to avoid monsters when running around with the quartz that lets you see the dots on the map.
OH, and I strongly dislike that field quartz effects only work when leading the party with that character. It means I'm forced to throw all the field quartz on a single character and then they lose those slots for battle instead of having like 1 field quartz on each character in the Sora trilogy. Dislike this anti-player change
Zero Evo
So I've been trying to figure out where the hell Crossbell is in relation to Liberal Kingdom from Sora and I googled it and I can't read chinese but I'm assuming Crossbell is the one in the top right here with the Empire to the west and Calvard to the south?
http://www.twwiki.com/uploads/wiki/c2/52/734454_0.jpg
*edit*
Oh god, I'm wiking where to fish to do this stupid MMO subquest for the baker and this is what they added to the Vita Evo version? Crappy fetch quests to collect X amount of monster drops and fishing drops?
So I've been trying to figure out where the hell Crossbell is in relation to Liberal Kingdom from Sora and I googled it and I can't read chinese but I'm assuming Crossbell is the one in the top right here with the Empire to the west and Calvard to the south?
http://www.twwiki.com/uploads/wiki/c2/52/734454_0.jpg
*edit*
Oh god, I'm wiking where to fish to do this stupid MMO subquest for the baker and this is what they added to the Vita Evo version? Crappy fetch quests to collect X amount of monster drops and fishing drops?
Cool
Zero Evo
Is there anywhere to buy fishing bait in the game? I need a certain type of bait to get the fish to complete this sidequest but I only had 2 of the bait and I need like 6+ I thought maybe the fishing store/guild in Crossbell City would sell bait, but the guy just upgrades your fishing rank :|
Zero Evo
Is there anywhere to buy fishing bait in the game? I need a certain type of bait to get the fish to complete this sidequest but I only had 2 of the bait and I need like 6+ I thought maybe the fishing store/guild in Crossbell City would sell bait, but the guy just upgrades your fishing rank :|
As far as I know, you can only get fishing bait through killing monsters. In Ao, you can just buy it in certain stores, which makes fishing more attractive and lucrative.
And yes, the Evo exclusive quests are not really worth your time. Fortunately, there are only a few and they make it easy to net some extra DP.
And yes, the Evo exclusive quests are not really worth your time. Fortunately, there are only a few and they make it easy to net some extra DP.
The fishing club will sell bait. But you have to level up your rank. Basically for them to sell every type of bait you have to catch all the fish but one and obtain the second to best rank. Until then you have to farm monsters.
You will miss the pass-through-enemy quarts in the last dungeon (where you have to avoid fighting if you want the trophy) and in second play-through. Enemies are not that hard to avoid and escape is easy too with an item. But it still eats your time.
That. Yes. It also means your field leader will always be Randy/Lloyd as they are less reliant on arts. Putting all field quarts in Tio messes her arts pretty badly.Zero Evo
OH, and I strongly dislike that field quartz effects only work when leading the party with that character. It means I'm forced to throw all the field quartz on a single character and then they lose those slots for battle instead of having like 1 field quartz on each character in the Sora trilogy. Dislike this anti-player change
You will miss the pass-through-enemy quarts in the last dungeon (where you have to avoid fighting if you want the trophy) and in second play-through. Enemies are not that hard to avoid and escape is easy too with an item. But it still eats your time.
Yeah, just finished the quest. But to track down the enemy that dropped the bait, grind the enemy until I had enough, then grind fishing until I had enough fish, then grind enemies for the rest of the items, then report back...wasted an hour of my time for barely any story to the sidequest and a few DP.
Might skip some of the remaining Evo exclusive quests if they're like this. Not really worth the time. I actually really like the sidequests in the series because of all the little world-building stories that come with them or fun boss fights in the monster extermination quests. But the "get me all these ingredients by grinding enemies and/or fishing" quests suck.
Zero Evo
Oh god, that Kiseki pacing >_<
Ch.2
So now when I was in the middle of a main plot and it was getting good, I have to stop everything and go sidequesting for 2-3 hours or I'll lose a lot of the sidequests as the expire at the end of the chapter. Argh.
This style just kills the pacing just like FC/SC. The sidequests are generally great and I really like them, but it's the positioning of them in these groups of 3-6 quests at a time mid-chapter that is really pace-killing and bad design from Falcom.
What they really should do for this franchise to balance the world building sidequests and the main plotline is have all the quests for the chapter available at the start of each chapter. That way if you want, you can explore around and do all the sidequests first and then do the main story for the chapter without interruption.
Getting interrupted and being greeted with a whole bunch of quests is just a big turn off and it makes me not play the game for a week or two because instead of being excited to turn the Vita on and make progress, it feels like a chore/work and I'd rather play something else that's more fun.
From what I've heard it sounds like Falcom hasn't really improved this aspect of the pacing since FC until Sen II. Maybe the next series.... :|
Oh god, that Kiseki pacing >_<
Ch.2
So I do 4-5 sidequests for a couple of hours at the start of the chapter and have fun, then I start the main opera house death threat storyline where I'm investigating the western mafia and the eastern mafia and learning about Gin/In the masked assassin and meanwhile there's police department politics and Ellie backstory and everything is going good and about to jump into tracking down the assassin and then I go and check the comptuer and there's like 6-7 new quests! Fuck.
So now when I was in the middle of a main plot and it was getting good, I have to stop everything and go sidequesting for 2-3 hours or I'll lose a lot of the sidequests as the expire at the end of the chapter. Argh.
This style just kills the pacing just like FC/SC. The sidequests are generally great and I really like them, but it's the positioning of them in these groups of 3-6 quests at a time mid-chapter that is really pace-killing and bad design from Falcom.
What they really should do for this franchise to balance the world building sidequests and the main plotline is have all the quests for the chapter available at the start of each chapter. That way if you want, you can explore around and do all the sidequests first and then do the main story for the chapter without interruption.
Getting interrupted and being greeted with a whole bunch of quests is just a big turn off and it makes me not play the game for a week or two because instead of being excited to turn the Vita on and make progress, it feels like a chore/work and I'd rather play something else that's more fun.
From what I've heard it sounds like Falcom hasn't really improved this aspect of the pacing since FC until Sen II. Maybe the next series.... :|
I like the sidequests and don't want to miss them. They add a lot to the game. But you shouldn't have to interrupt the mid-chapter story to do them. They should let you do them before or after the main chapter story (most chapter stories end on a cutscene -> next chapter).
There's nothing wrong with the sidequests, just that Falcom sucks at pacing these games and 4 games in they haven't gotten much better. I wonder if they even acknowledge that the pacing is a problem in the series.
Shouta
Member
I don't know, I've never had a problem with the pacing. For the most part, they end each section at a logical cutoff point and keep easy quests as the required ones if you really want to jump into it again. Most other RPGs don't really bother spending time doing that and often it just starts blending together to me.
In fact I like the quests so much and feel that they are incredibly essential to fleshing out the world of the game that I really hate the hidden quests in the Kiseki games. I don't use guides outside a fetch quest or two where I need to figure out how to get the item and if you're not using a guide the chance you stumble across the hidden quests is pretty low (I stumbled across a single one in SC and I stumbled across part of one in Zero so far) and then you miss out on some nice extra little quests.
In an ideal world I wish Falcom would just make every quest for the chapter available at the start of the chapter. No hidden ones, no quests mid-chapter. Just give me the quests and I'll travel around the world doing them between chapter breaks in the story.
In an ideal world I wish Falcom would just make every quest for the chapter available at the start of the chapter. No hidden ones, no quests mid-chapter. Just give me the quests and I'll travel around the world doing them between chapter breaks in the story.
Finished Ao no Kiseki Evolution last night. What an absolutely amazing game, from the very beginning until the very end (and beyond that), thanks to Zero's wonderful set-up. Despite the major foreshadowing for Sen, Sen II and whatever comes after Sen II throughout the game and especially at the very last minute, I going to take a break from Kiseki before I jump into the Erebonia Arc. But man, what a game.
Glad to hear it about Ao! I am absolutely loving Zero. It's just so damn gorgeous. I'm kind of sad thinking about Sen and going to low budget 3d environments coming from how nice they've made things look in Zero/Ao. It really feels like the Suikoden I (Sora) -> II (Zero/Ao) -> III (Sen) progression of visuals. Zero/Ao really refines the isometric style that Sora runs on.
Zero no Kiseki
Chapter 2 was amazing. Already up there with the best chapters of Sora.
Zero no Kiseki
Chapter 2 was amazing. Already up there with the best chapters of Sora.
The stage play was really impressive! But the chapter really got good when I got to the tower and all the sudden the status effects, elements and even enemies (SKULL CANNON TANK IS BACK) from 3rd show up along with incredibly atmospheric and impressive graphics. Compared to how dull and boring the towers looked in Sora.
Good stuff.
Good stuff.
Zero no Kiseki
Chapter 3
Chapter 3
is ridiculously long. I'm at the final part I think (4th part) doing the sidequests and probably been in this chapter for 12 hours already. Still good stuff. But looking for a stopping point to put the game down for a week to finish Zestiria and so I keep waiting for Chapter 3 to end and it doesn't ^^;
You might want to put it down before Chapter 3 ends. After the first two chapters, you should know how these chapters are structured.
You might want to put it down before Chapter 3 ends. After the first two chapters, you should know how these chapters are structured.
Hehehe, yeah but I'm almost done with Zestiria, so it's more like putting it down for a week at most. I find chapter breaks are good because they leave at good spots to make you excited about returning to the game if you've put it down for a little while!
Btw, Chapter 3 spoiler, I just ran into
My favorite dude from 3rd, Lector
how they're handling returning characters from the Sora trilogy. They just feel really different so far character-wise than how they talked and acted in The 3rd. Feels out of character.
I think maybe my big problem (besides Estelle's voice which I hate in this one) is the new "hip super anime portraits" for everyone. Like Lector and Kirika looked SO DIFFERENT in their portraits I wouldn't have recognized them if not for their names. When I first saw them I think "hmm, I wonder if that's...." but it wasn't until I saw their names that I was sure because the art style is so different. I miss Sora style character portrait art I don't mind Zero's art for the new characters, but for returning characters it just feels wrong.
I know it's silly to judge, for instance, Lector on what's been one conversation with him outside a boat to a theme park; but the way he was written in 3rd he came off as playful and fun, but also serious and thoughtful underneath with an air of mystery. Here his introduction he was like Randy 2.0 and they even comment on that aspect of him; kind of generic acting silly to hide his true intentions. Ren was also pretty off from how emotional and serious and conflicted she was at the end of The 3rd to how playful she is at the start of Zero as Kitty. Also I don't know how I feel about them retconning her backstory >:| I guess I don't mind that it was a misunderstanding. Also Estelle's emotional breakdown after she runs into Lloyd and crew and finds out that Ren learned the truth about her past, was probably the first dialogue from Estelle & Joshua that actually felt like the characters I knew from Sora.
I guess that may be an aspect to it. In Sora, all of these characters were in the middle of their stories and had a lot of weight on their shoulders. So they had fun, but they were also always struggling with their own personal dramas. Now in Zero, most of these returning characters are just happy-go-lucky super powerful guest characters and without a story and a sense of personal struggle, they just come off as one-dimensional and fake compared to the characters with depth that I knew and loved in Sora.
I guess that is a tl;dr way to put it: they Sora characters feel like they went from characters with depth to anime stereotypes in Zero so far. To be fair it's been 2 years (or was it 2 months?) since The Third and so they've had time to move on before arriving in Zero and not be stuck still dwelling on things from Sora.
Eh, hopefully that part will get better and integrate more smoothly. With more and more of the old crew showing up, things are definitely setting up to get pretty interesting.
Oh and I have a slight issue with Zero not happening immediately after The Third: The 3rd set up and teased some interesting stuff ABOUT TO HAPPEN IN CROSSBELL like with Oxborne (don't remember his name, the Imperial General guy Olivert is opposing) about to go to Crossbell. But when Zero starts, they talk about stuff like this having already happened and gone by the time the game starts. So that's pretty lame that 3rd got it all exciting like EVERYONE IS GOING TO CROSSBELL AND SOME CRAZY STUFF GONNA GO DOWN and while I'm sure it will, I wanted to be there when everyone got to Crossbell, not some time later when some people have already left!!
I think maybe my big problem (besides Estelle's voice which I hate in this one) is the new "hip super anime portraits" for everyone. Like Lector and Kirika looked SO DIFFERENT in their portraits I wouldn't have recognized them if not for their names. When I first saw them I think "hmm, I wonder if that's...." but it wasn't until I saw their names that I was sure because the art style is so different. I miss Sora style character portrait art
I don't mind Zero's art for the new characters, but for returning characters it just feels wrong.I know it's silly to judge, for instance, Lector on what's been one conversation with him outside a boat to a theme park; but the way he was written in 3rd he came off as playful and fun, but also serious and thoughtful underneath with an air of mystery. Here his introduction he was like Randy 2.0 and they even comment on that aspect of him; kind of generic acting silly to hide his true intentions. Ren was also pretty off from how emotional and serious and conflicted she was at the end of The 3rd to how playful she is at the start of Zero as Kitty. Also I don't know how I feel about them retconning her backstory >:| I guess I don't mind that it was a misunderstanding. Also Estelle's emotional breakdown after she runs into Lloyd and crew and finds out that Ren learned the truth about her past, was probably the first dialogue from Estelle & Joshua that actually felt like the characters I knew from Sora.
I guess that may be an aspect to it. In Sora, all of these characters were in the middle of their stories and had a lot of weight on their shoulders. So they had fun, but they were also always struggling with their own personal dramas. Now in Zero, most of these returning characters are just happy-go-lucky super powerful guest characters and without a story and a sense of personal struggle, they just come off as one-dimensional and fake compared to the characters with depth that I knew and loved in Sora.
I guess that is a tl;dr way to put it: they Sora characters feel like they went from characters with depth to anime stereotypes in Zero so far. To be fair it's been 2 years (or was it 2 months?) since The Third and so they've had time to move on before arriving in Zero and not be stuck still dwelling on things from Sora.
Eh, hopefully that part will get better and integrate more smoothly. With more and more of the old crew showing up, things are definitely setting up to get pretty interesting.
Oh and I have a slight issue with Zero not happening immediately after The Third: The 3rd set up and teased some interesting stuff ABOUT TO HAPPEN IN CROSSBELL like with Oxborne (don't remember his name, the Imperial General guy Olivert is opposing) about to go to Crossbell. But when Zero starts, they talk about stuff like this having already happened and gone by the time the game starts. So that's pretty lame that 3rd got it all exciting like EVERYONE IS GOING TO CROSSBELL AND SOME CRAZY STUFF GONNA GO DOWN and while I'm sure it will, I wanted to be there when everyone got to Crossbell, not some time later when some people have already left!!
Alright, that was a lot of random thoughts. Looking forward to the rest of the game and then Ao in the fall and Sen I/II next year! (My plan is to spread the games apart by 6 months or so, so that I don't catch up until either part 1 of the next series is out or ideally be caught up right before part II of the next series is out so I don't have to wait a year for the cliffhanger
; I'm figuring the next one will be fall 2016/fall 2017. So Zero/Ao this year and Sen I/II next year with Nayuta somewhere between is my current plan.
Shouta
Member
Totally disagree on (3rd and Zero talk, spoilers)
the returning characters. They were pretty close to what you'd expect for the situation at the time. Lector being Randy 2.0 was his playful side coming out because that situation wasn't all that serious, as I recall. Same with Renne as Kitty, she has to have fun somehow, heh.
The time gap between 3rd is pretty important for stabilizing Renne, Estelle, and Joshua's personalities and moods. It's also a natural progression from where they were at the end of 3rd and where they went from there. Estelle and Joshua became more seasoned Bracers and had gained a pretty big resolve through the 3rd to be there for Renne. Taking on that air of awesome-sauce was to be expected and actually pretty cool to see them so strong. It also served to contrast the growth of the S.S.S.
Remember that these characters are at the tail end of their tale from the Sora games. They've changed immensely through that so it doesn't make a lot of sense to keep a lot of that baggage directly when they've had time to adjust to it and resolve it. Estelle and Joshua resolved their personal issues together. So there's no reason for them to be mopey and serious all the time together but they were serious for Renne which was the last thread for them. In addition, Renne also put up a facade as a part of her coping originally, so her not being super serious after the 3rd makes sense as she ran from the person that brought all of it down for her, heh.
The handling of Renne's past in Zero was perfect, I think. The harsh reality of her situation balanced out with this emotional truth for her character. How it happened was a little silly but it just tugs at the heart strings perfectly and why she's such a good character. I really hope they don't censor thsi in the PC version of the 3rd if it ever comes out in English or at least make the language point to the correct thoughts.
The time gap between 3rd is pretty important for stabilizing Renne, Estelle, and Joshua's personalities and moods. It's also a natural progression from where they were at the end of 3rd and where they went from there. Estelle and Joshua became more seasoned Bracers and had gained a pretty big resolve through the 3rd to be there for Renne. Taking on that air of awesome-sauce was to be expected and actually pretty cool to see them so strong. It also served to contrast the growth of the S.S.S.
Remember that these characters are at the tail end of their tale from the Sora games. They've changed immensely through that so it doesn't make a lot of sense to keep a lot of that baggage directly when they've had time to adjust to it and resolve it. Estelle and Joshua resolved their personal issues together. So there's no reason for them to be mopey and serious all the time together but they were serious for Renne which was the last thread for them. In addition, Renne also put up a facade as a part of her coping originally, so her not being super serious after the 3rd makes sense as she ran from the person that brought all of it down for her, heh.
The handling of Renne's past in Zero was perfect, I think. The harsh reality of her situation balanced out with this emotional truth for her character. How it happened was a little silly but it just tugs at the heart strings perfectly and why she's such a good character. I really hope they don't censor thsi in the PC version of the 3rd if it ever comes out in English or at least make the language point to the correct thoughts.
Though the portraits and new art direction is something to get used to, especially the moving mouths in Evo was really bizarre at first, I've never felt, like I said before, that the recurring characters were out of character.
Spoilers for a character appearing in The 3rd and Zero:
Spoilers for a character appearing in SC, The 3rd and Zero:
Spoilers for more two other recurring characters in Zero:
Spoiler for end-game Zero, same topic:
Spoilers for a character appearing in The 3rd and Zero:
there's a significant gap between setting in which you encounter Lector in The 3rd and Zero. In the former, he's in his professional attire working directly for Gilliath Osborne discussing politics with Olivert, while in the latter he's trying to be out of character on the boat to gather information, or maybe that's his real self and has to use a persona in Osborne's vicinity. You tell me.
Spoilers for a character appearing in SC, The 3rd and Zero:
I absolutely loved how they handled Renne's background story. Upon seeing that scene, something (finally) clicked - as I hadn't unlocked that Star Door in The 3rd by then - and I related it back to the situation to where you first meet her, at Air-Letten (?) in SC. The automata she was with were modelled after her parents, Harold and his wife, which I only realised after Zero pointed it out to me. That realisation really tore me apart, and when I watched a video of the uncensored door, I got torn apart again. It's such a powerful story and one of my favourites in the Kiseki universe.
Spoilers for more two other recurring characters in Zero:
Indeed, Estelle and Joshua's development as characters ended at the end of The 3rd. The only thing I felt was that indeed time had passed and that Estelle has gained more composure, maybe she's finally become an adult (lolnopenever).
When they rejoin your party at the end of the game, it's funny to see how much Lloyd, Tio and Randy have grown in comparison to when they first met Estelle and Joshua. I also noticed myself that I was happy that I had some comfort zone material from Sora in Zero at the beginning, but by the end of Zero, I didn't even put Estelle and Joshua in my active party anymore.
redhairedking
Junior Member
FC Evo demo scheduled for March it seems
In case it doesn't get answered in the SC Localization thread, someone said Sen isn't done yet and there's going to be a Sen III this fall?
Is that true? I assumed Sen was a single rpg split in half like FC/SC & Zero/Ao. If Sen is 3 parts I'm going to need to rethink how I catch up on the series. Didn't want to be caught up until the next series entry in a new location after Sen comes out so I can be there with everyone for the exciting stuff of a new country and cast to explore.
Is that true? I assumed Sen was a single rpg split in half like FC/SC & Zero/Ao. If Sen is 3 parts I'm going to need to rethink how I catch up on the series. Didn't want to be caught up until the next series entry in a new location after Sen comes out so I can be there with everyone for the exciting stuff of a new country and cast to explore.
Sen is over afaik.
Which is funny considering how much Falcom wanted to get rid of the Legend of Heroes as a title ever since the 3rd.
IMO the last game in the series that truly felt like a Legend of Heroes was Song of the Ocean.
Ok, cool. Yeah I'm not sure if these games would work as 3 parters in the same country. Might feel kind of burned out by the 3rd volume and everyone is waiting for the next series to start with a fresh location.
Nightengale
Member
I think part of the confusion comes from the fact that
Sen II doesn't end the character storylines of the characters introduced in Sen. We'll see them pop up in future games, not unlike how previous Kiseki characters have popped up in other games.