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The Kiseki / Trails (of the Sky/Zero/Ao/Sen/Etc) Community Thread: SPOILERTAGS OR DIE
- Thread starter Bebpo
- Start date
Re: Orbment stuff
Orbments in Sky are pretty cookie-cutter for the most part. Everyone gets the best Action quartz they can get. Physical attackers get an Attack and Hit, and load up on incidental utility quartz. Arts users get Cast and EP Cut (and EP if they have slots), then rando elemental quartz until they hit the threshold for the arts you want them to cast. Want them to cast high-level Time arts? Better put on some time quar - oh wait they already have that from Action and Cast.
There's really not a huge distinction between arts users in Sky. All the arts users gain access to amazing time crafts, and then you give them some more quartz to either increase their type coverage (fire, wind) or utility (water, earth).
Physical attackers are more varied because they rely on their crafts more. But their quartz loadout is pretty much Attack + Hit + other random buffs + whatever utility quarts you can find (information, detection). And most of the physical attackers are far out-DPSed by any decent arts user.
I need to play my PC version of CS to refresh, but I vaguely remember that characters mostly had their different niches. I remember spending a lot of time in CS2 trying to max out Sara's strength for one-shotting bosses, Fie's evasion for dodge-tanking, Rean's speed for delaying, and Emma's ATS for wiping mob groups. I feel like CS encourages you to specialize your characters, while in Sky I ended up generalizing all of my characters to be generic utility arts-casters or physical damage-dealers. And while that's not necessarily a bad thing for the Sky games, I personally prefer games where characters feel significantly different from one another.
Or maybe I just like feeling overpowered ¯\_(ツ
_/¯
Orbments in Sky are pretty cookie-cutter for the most part. Everyone gets the best Action quartz they can get. Physical attackers get an Attack and Hit, and load up on incidental utility quartz. Arts users get Cast and EP Cut (and EP if they have slots), then rando elemental quartz until they hit the threshold for the arts you want them to cast. Want them to cast high-level Time arts? Better put on some time quar - oh wait they already have that from Action and Cast.
There's really not a huge distinction between arts users in Sky. All the arts users gain access to amazing time crafts, and then you give them some more quartz to either increase their type coverage (fire, wind) or utility (water, earth).
Physical attackers are more varied because they rely on their crafts more. But their quartz loadout is pretty much Attack + Hit + other random buffs + whatever utility quarts you can find (information, detection). And most of the physical attackers are far out-DPSed by any decent arts user.
I need to play my PC version of CS to refresh, but I vaguely remember that characters mostly had their different niches. I remember spending a lot of time in CS2 trying to max out Sara's strength for one-shotting bosses, Fie's evasion for dodge-tanking, Rean's speed for delaying, and Emma's ATS for wiping mob groups. I feel like CS encourages you to specialize your characters, while in Sky I ended up generalizing all of my characters to be generic utility arts-casters or physical damage-dealers. And while that's not necessarily a bad thing for the Sky games, I personally prefer games where characters feel significantly different from one another.
Or maybe I just like feeling overpowered ¯\_(ツ
_/¯That shouldn't be a spoiler. It's a returning enemy from 3rd.
That's actually Zero.
I'm not taking any chances on GAF.
best waifu
Dragoon En Regalia
Member
Now that is metal. Valgem was already a tricky monster to fight, now it's gone full Halloween.
Shake Appeal
Member
Yep. I am genuinely interested in the lives of a lot of the students who are not party members.
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
My expectations were low but I'm coming away pretty positive (not done yet, but getting close). It definitely falls short of Sky in some regards, but it's not bad.
I'd highly recommend hard mode if you already beat the Sky trilogy. I can't imagine how easy normal mode must be, because even on hard most trash mobs can be beaten with normal attacks before they can hit you as long as you get advantage, and even quicker if you mix in a craft or two. Bosses can be push back a bit but I've only had a couple times where I lost to them, and in both cases it was because I wanted to restart the fight with a different strategy.
Re: Orbment stuff
Orbments in Sky are pretty cookie-cutter for the most part. Everyone gets the best Action quartz they can get. Physical attackers get an Attack and Hit, and load up on incidental utility quartz. Arts users get Cast and EP Cut (and EP if they have slots), then rando elemental quartz until they hit the threshold for the arts you want them to cast. Want them to cast high-level Time arts? Better put on some time quar - oh wait they already have that from Action and Cast.
There's really not a huge distinction between arts users in Sky. All the arts users gain access to amazing time crafts, and then you give them some more quartz to either increase their type coverage (fire, wind) or utility (water, earth).
Physical attackers are more varied because they rely on their crafts more. But their quartz loadout is pretty much Attack + Hit + other random buffs + whatever utility quarts you can find (information, detection). And most of the physical attackers are far out-DPSed by any decent arts user.
I need to play my PC version of CS to refresh, but I vaguely remember that characters mostly had their different niches. I remember spending a lot of time in CS2 trying to max out Sara's strength for one-shotting bosses, Fie's evasion for dodge-tanking, Rean's speed for delaying, and Emma's ATS for wiping mob groups. I feel like CS encourages you to specialize your characters, while in Sky I ended up generalizing all of my characters to be generic utility arts-casters or physical damage-dealers. And while that's not necessarily a bad thing for the Sky games, I personally prefer games where characters feel significantly different from one another.
Or maybe I just like feeling overpowered ¯\_(ツ
These line up with my own experiences. There's definitely a bit of generalization too with (surprise) Action Quartz, but for the most part, my loadouts for the CS1/2 characters were different-ish.
My first thought was actually the
Nosferatu.
ThatChairMan
Member
I dunno, I can't say that is really too different from CS. Action was still given to mostly everyone. Physical users get any quartz that have +STR or +HIT, and arts users get +ATS and casting speed. It adds additional niches for dodge tanking and delay spamming, but those also just boil down to giving them any quartz with the stat bonus that contributes to what they need. This is made even easier when you don't even need to consider slot and line placement anymore, either.
I'll give that CS had a more roles that could be built towards, but that wasn't really due to a change in the point-based orbment system and more because of the addition of new quartz with different effects.
Ao, Chapter 1:
Exciting stuff, to say the least.
Bunch of CS stuff coming up, it's kind of crazy. I don't remember too much from the CS games, but I do remember all the keywords and key names like the Orchids Tower.
Randy and his hilarious screams; I really love Miki as Randy. They sure know how to tease bits and bits of Randy's backstory, especially that intense meeting with his uncle and cousin. And I can already see the CS connections; I believe it was the leader of Zephyr, which is the Jaeger Corps that Fie used to belong to, that fought Randy's actual dad. Definitely makes you interested in how they'll interact in CS3 now that they'll be given some opportunities to meet; though it looks like Fie might be meeting with Shirley first, if anything. I was expecting Randy's stuff to be much later in the game, but it looks like they're getting out of the way pretty early? And Tio isn't back yet! I hope Randy's stuff isn't resolved without Tio there, that just wouldn't be right.
Also gotta mention the involvement of Ouroboros. I want wipe off that smug off of Campanella's face one day. Oh, and Ries looks super cute in her new sister uniform.
Randy and his hilarious screams; I really love Miki as Randy. They sure know how to tease bits and bits of Randy's backstory, especially that intense meeting with his uncle and cousin. And I can already see the CS connections; I believe it was the leader of Zephyr, which is the Jaeger Corps that Fie used to belong to, that fought Randy's actual dad. Definitely makes you interested in how they'll interact in CS3 now that they'll be given some opportunities to meet; though it looks like Fie might be meeting with Shirley first, if anything. I was expecting Randy's stuff to be much later in the game, but it looks like they're getting out of the way pretty early? And Tio isn't back yet! I hope Randy's stuff isn't resolved without Tio there, that just wouldn't be right.
Also gotta mention the involvement of Ouroboros. I want wipe off that smug off of Campanella's face one day. Oh, and Ries looks super cute in her new sister uniform.
Exciting stuff, to say the least.
Sinh_Magnus
Member
I honestly found
that chapter to be the real prologue for the game. It was mostly set up, though exciting nonetheless. I loved how basically the first thing Randy says in the game is expressing his desire to come back home
CS3 https://twitter.com/nihonfalcom/status/902493566584242176
HYPE
looks like Olivier is back to his old ways of flirting with dangerous women
In the 3rd, I can get Clock Up Ex and Earth Wall on every single party member with very little investment.
Phys: Action whatever + Blind/Memory/Fortune (only needed before Action 5) + Defense 4/Poison 2/Mute 2/Petrify 2 + Mov/Strike/Eye
The physical attacker uses at most one or two quartz it usually wouldn't in exchange for having two of the best buffs in the game.
Arts: Action + Cast + filler earth + EP Cut.
The Ats user gets both of those buffs for almost free - a single orbment slot is all they sacrifice.
You can definitely build your party more efficiently, but having these two arts makes most boss fights a breeze. I want to stress that I don't really mind this system, and it's kind of fun sometimes to see what you can pull off. But at the same time, most of my builds tend to encompass the same core of arts.
The thing about CS, from what I remember, is that you actually have to consider what arts you want to give to your arts-casters. Each arts user is different because you can't get your high-level time arts by default: you have to go out of your way to give someone a quartz that specifically gives Grim Butterfly (or give them a Master Quartz that grants it). You could probably get the overpowered art of the day on every party member, but it requires more investment
You have a point here. The addition of new quartz really helped build diversity (the bells were a great addition, for example). I'm not arguing in favor of removing lines and such (heck, I'm excited that they're coming back in CS3), and I think that the CS system can be improved. But think people have criticized CS's orbment system a lot without acknowledging what it brings to the table (basically, allowing characters to still be powerful, but increasing build variety by limiting generalization and incentivizing deeper specialization).
Novel Mike
Member
So thanks to the Turbo feature I'm finally making real progress in Trails in the Sky (just got started with Chapter 3) and its... okay. Honestly I'm surprised. With how many complaints I herd people make about Cold Steel with its pacing issues and tropey characters I really expected to find that those would be absent in Sky but... The exact same 'problems' are right here.
I'm in Chapter 3 and while each city has had its own little story that plays out the events are settled in almost the same way as in CS
and the main plot has yet to reveal itself as of yet. Outside of CS having a hub city in Trista and the class field trips working like the various bracer jobs pretty much the events and storylines of each location play out largely the same.
The characters as well are just as tropey as the cast of CS was with Estelle being unable to even understand her own feelings despite everyone else noticing them right away, Joshua having a dark past that he keeps secret, ect.
I don't think any of these things are actually bad, I'm enjoying the game a lot now (although seriously how did you guys enjoy this without Turbo? The fights are so slow and the constant backtracking? Holy hell. I mean seriously I play games like this for the story and not gameplay and I cannot stand how slow everything is in this game) and really interested to see how more things will later connect to CS but after all the trash talk I herd about how much better the Sky games were then CS so far I don't see it. Cold Steel's biggest problem was that the threw all the characters at you at once and then still spread out the development over the course of a majority of the game but the hate I saw about how tropey the characters are is just as present in Sky so I really don't get it.
I think both games are really good and Sky might pick up more as I continue playing (I'm basically just past the halfway point right now if I understand correctly) but all the complaints I saw about CS are here too so I'm more confused about the hate I saw for CS in the OT's then ever before.
I'm in Chapter 3 and while each city has had its own little story that plays out the events are settled in almost the same way as in CS
(with an army coming to save/take credit at the last minute for all the work your group does)
The characters as well are just as tropey as the cast of CS was with Estelle being unable to even understand her own feelings despite everyone else noticing them right away, Joshua having a dark past that he keeps secret, ect.
I don't think any of these things are actually bad, I'm enjoying the game a lot now (although seriously how did you guys enjoy this without Turbo? The fights are so slow and the constant backtracking? Holy hell. I mean seriously I play games like this for the story and not gameplay and I cannot stand how slow everything is in this game) and really interested to see how more things will later connect to CS but after all the trash talk I herd about how much better the Sky games were then CS so far I don't see it. Cold Steel's biggest problem was that the threw all the characters at you at once and then still spread out the development over the course of a majority of the game but the hate I saw about how tropey the characters are is just as present in Sky so I really don't get it.
I think both games are really good and Sky might pick up more as I continue playing (I'm basically just past the halfway point right now if I understand correctly) but all the complaints I saw about CS are here too so I'm more confused about the hate I saw for CS in the OT's then ever before.
FC really hit a stride for me in the second chapter. It's really no more plot-focused than CS1 though. The staked will be raised in the final chapter, you'll get that cliffhanger ending, and then SC will the one that really starts pushing a story forward from minute one onward.
The combat is very slow sans Turbo.
The combat is very slow sans Turbo.
It's been a while since I've played FC specifically, but with that game isolated from its sequels, I don't think I'd describe many of the characters as being particularly "less tropey" than CS1? This is partially due to the game
, but it's also a pretty traditional JRPG at face value.
That being said, the tropes of FC are a lot less ANIME HIGHSCHOOL than cold steel, so even if the tropes exist, they're a lot less blatant and annoying, especially nowadays. And of course, tropes are tools, so good writing can help sell otherwise normal plotlines.
... And then if you include future games into the mix, a lot of things start to seem intentional rather than "well I guess JRPG settings have this." (As an example, going into the game for the first time, I was under the impression that Erebonia was
)
abandoning most of its cast after their related chapter until much later, so they never really get the chance to develop much beyond initial impressions and the obvious arc said impressions lead into
That being said, the tropes of FC are a lot less ANIME HIGHSCHOOL than cold steel, so even if the tropes exist, they're a lot less blatant and annoying, especially nowadays. And of course, tropes are tools, so good writing can help sell otherwise normal plotlines.
... And then if you include future games into the mix, a lot of things start to seem intentional rather than "well I guess JRPG settings have this." (As an example, going into the game for the first time, I was under the impression that Erebonia was
the traditional EVIL JRPG EMPIRE. If you play even five minutes of Cold Steel for example, this clearly isn't the case.
Scirm_Layton
Member
There is? I don't mind digital ve., but the last time I checked there was only SC? (EU, Polish PSN)
The EU version was unfortunately delisted and doesn't look like it'll come back
Scrooge McDuck
Member
Not that I hate Cold Steel, but I do rate Sky's characters and interactions higher.
However, I came into that conclusion after I finished both Sky SC and Cold Steel II, you know? Then Sky the 3rd just cements it further. Cold Steel's production woes and the fact that the arc isn't over yet still leave me with very high hopes for Cold Steel III but as of now? The difference is very real for me.
Cheat Engine does most of what Turbo mode does, except it doesn't allow a separate Turbo rate between Field/Battle modes. I got up to Chapter 3 with Cheat Engine, then plowed through the rest with Turbo Mode, which is a far better user experience.
Pacing is a mess, though, and no amount of Turbo mode really fixes that. That's why I think FC has been the weakest of the series. Still making my way through SC (aka Trails in the Sky: The After Years, based on how much dungeon/field/map reuse there is).
One of my least favourite doors, but one of the best. And one of the reasons Renne is one of my favourite characters in the whole series.
godisntheradio
Neo Member
yeah, i was left speechless. I still don't know exactly what to say about it.
I didn't like her in SC. One of 3rd's greatest triumphs is how it completely turned me around on her character and the relationships she has with the rest of the cast.
It's literally the only game I've played that handled that particular subject matter with tact and strength. It doesn't shy away from conveying the horrors of
And it's just... incredibly mature.Tons of games try to do this and it falls flat on their face, because it's usually a misguided attempt at shock value. But 3rd? 3rd fucking pole vaults over it and sticks the landing, completely re contextualizing one of SC's major characters. God, Is there anything this game does wrong?
Trick question, nothing. The game is one of the finest products Falcom has to offer, easy.
child prostitution, directly putting the player in Renne's shoes, making you vicariously experience the horrors she's being subjected.
Trick question, nothing. The game is one of the finest products Falcom has to offer, easy.
Scrooge McDuck
Member
I am in two minds about that door. [Sky the 3rd]
On one hand, I generally agree with everything you said. On the other hand, it actually put me into a bad place that I question whether it's really necessary to take the narrative quite that far.
I had to stop playing for a bit, so believe me it fucked me up too. But that's precisely why it's so good. It was that effecting, that memorable... I hate it, but i'm also glad Falcom took me there because feeling is good. I play so many games, I end up being apathetic to a lot of "emotional" moments, but Falcom's consistently been able to pull me out of it.
I was completely blindsided by that door, even toward the end I kept thinking 'they aren't really going there are they?' but they were and they handled it perfectly. It's disturbing, raw and painful, but one of the most well written moments in the game. Falcom is one of my my favourite developers because of their ability to know when it's best to look at things with an optimistic light and when it is appropriate to go dark and what to include and what not to include when they do.
The key different between being optimistic and patronizing.
I go so far as to say it's some of the best writing in the series as a whole, barring whatever might be in Zero/Ao.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
It's the indirectness that works so well in its favor. If it had been direct like in this early version localized by some fine Falcom fan, woulda been too blunt and clinical about it.
This way however, puts us in the reeling, unsteady mind of Renne, so we find ourselves rewinding to earlier parts after later revelations and OH CHRIST IT GETS WORSE.
Note also how this is in the same game as Moon Door 1. Same subject. Completely different payoffs. With this subject. I mean, HOW? This should not work. And yet, it does.
Now think back about how so many anime games handle pedophilia. Yeah. I am in awe of how the 3rd even comes out of this not failing much less to resounding success.
This way however, puts us in the reeling, unsteady mind of Renne, so we find ourselves rewinding to earlier parts after later revelations and OH CHRIST IT GETS WORSE.
Note also how this is in the same game as Moon Door 1. Same subject. Completely different payoffs. With this subject. I mean, HOW? This should not work. And yet, it does.
Now think back about how so many anime games handle pedophilia. Yeah. I am in awe of how the 3rd even comes out of this not failing much less to resounding success.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Welp, just skimming the past few posts, I feel like I already know way too much about
now, even though I haven't played 3rd yet. :\
Friendly reminder about the thread title, guys? You might think you're being vague, but now I can already make some guesses and I would rather not have known...
Renne
Friendly reminder about the thread title, guys? You might think you're being vague, but now I can already make some guesses and I would rather not have known...
Scrooge McDuck
Member
Yar, I wanted to say that we were careful to not even mention the character's name, but it actually bleed through, huh. I apologize and put my post in a spoiler tag.
Yeah.
Totally digging the
Randy x Mireille, if you know what I mean. Even gave her the headpat.
Scirm_Layton
Member
What a shame. Thankfully it is still available on us.psn, I really don't like the idea to create another account, but if this is what I need, to finally play FC on PSP, I have no choice. Kiseki, here I come!
Play FC as a Dragon Quest game. Small vigmettes that add up to a story. Also to be fair, FC doesn't have Elise, so it automatically wins the less tropey fight.
This applies to pretty much every character in this series. I wasn't particularly fond of Estelle and Agate in FC, but then SC rolled out around and they were redeemed.
Who knows what surprises Sen III has in store for Elise, the (CS1 spoiler)
"Potential Awakener" of Valimar.
That Gralsritter bump at work.
I agree though. I could take or leave Estelle and Agate at the end of FC, but SC really makes them. It really does apply to most of the series cast.