Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Never played Tokyo Xanadu, but I guess it sounds decent. Oh well.
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The Kiseki / Trails (of the Sky/Zero/Ao/Sen/Etc) Community Thread: SPOILERTAGS OR DIE
- Thread starter Bebpo
- Start date
Young Magus
Junior Member
Bruhs,
It official.
CS3 has been officially preordered
.
5 more days yo......5 more
It official.
CS3 has been officially preordered
via psn
5 more days yo......5 more
Novel Mike
Member
I just played through Chapter 4 and all of CS in the last few days. She has no actual character arc in either game. Both games she starts as the game person and at the end of the game shes the same person. I'm not saying we don't learn a lot about her but she doesn't grow as a person or face any form of real significant challenge that changes her as a person.
The biggest problem of Laura is that she has no real doubts. She is sure of her skill and ability to the point where she is able to easily recognize her own weaknesses and faults but she never truly doubts herself, she never questions the path shes on, why she got there, how she got there, or what might she do if one day she finishes that path. Shes like a character thats already gone through a character arc and become a fully fleshed out character but we never see any of it so in the end its feels like shes lacking proper development.
This isn't something other characters are missing either. Rean, Eliot, Alisa, everyone in class 7 expresses doubt in themselves or their own abilities at one point or another and its through these events that we see them grow as people. Hell this includes Sara who in CS1 is more of a supporting character then a main character. Laura just doesn't do these things though and its because of that that she ends up not being nearly as impressive of a character as she could have been. There isn't any backstory on her past in which she ever struggles with anything or considers a different path in life. Nope she is following the way of the Sword and being the next head of the family's school. She never truly questions it or her place in the world which just never seems right in a group of teenagers. I'm not saying she needed to have some dark backstory or anything but we never really hear much of her past at all, barely a thing about her mother or her reasoning for following the way of the Sword or anything of that nature. Again, its just lacking pure and honest development, hell Gaius has more development then she does.
My point being that sure we know various character traits about Laura and as you said her various relationships with her family but none of those relationships are really shown, they are told, even her interaction with her father is extremely brief as he only is around for like 3 cut scenes before he goes off again. Chapter 5 really felts like it was meant to be a Laura development chapter (thats the whole reason for going to Legram) but we learn more about Emma and Rean in Legram when that time clearly should have been spent on her (at least to a point).
Then you had that whole sequence with Fie for a few chapters. Laura 'doesn't accept' Fie but she doesn't really have any reason to not accept her. She says they are 'too different' from each other for why she isn't able to accept her right away but it doesn't make a lot of sense. Laura is never once shown really explaining what about Fie and her background she can't accept. Is it her past as a Jaeger? I mean that would make sense as Laura starts acting this way after learning her history... Okay if its that then what about Jaegers doesn't she like and why? Is it because they fight for money? Cause conflicts? Is it something else entirely?
Thats why I say that whole sequence is forced because its never really explained. I liked the overall outcome but the motivations behind it were shallow at best when you compare it to the Machias/Jusis issue. I'm not saying it had to be super dramatic or anything but look at the questions I asked above and why couldn't we at least get some answers to those, its not like it would've been that hard to add in just a few lines of dialog to actually explain her thinking.
Again I want to say, I like Laura but she wasn't nearly as well developed as she could have been and it certainly seemed like time for her development was spent on other characters and the problems she had with Fie weren't well thought out or explained. Shes still a kick ass fighter and what not but she could have had a lot more development or just a better explained character arc.
(Sen III spoilers)
One of the screenshots with Victor shows them wearing a Class VII crest on their uniform.
Okay no, she by definition has a character arc in CS1. She gradually changes into a different person in response to developments in the story. That trigger was the revelation that Fie was Jaeger. She was forced to overcome an obstacle (her petty mindset and unwillingness to truly understand Fie) and she ended up changing as a result. She differs from other characters because her problem is spontaneous (ie: not something she's had to deal with her entire life) but that makes her arc no less valid. Laura's arc in CS1 is very grounded and surprisingly relatable; it's easy to fall into disliking someone based on a preconceived notion, especially if said person ends up disliking you because of your own attitude towards them, leading into this negative feedback loop where both parties end up disliking each other. That is fucking interesting in a game with characters overt problems, "video game" problems. Her arc caps off by literally beating the shit out of
Rean
She very clearly has doubts, but they're most of the standard highschool variety. She's awkward and struggles to fit in with other girls, and doesn't always know how to approach her problems. She has a "my way or the high way" approach, which causes her to butt heads with Fie, Monica, and even Rean. The problem, is that you're taking her approach towards swordsmanship and applying it to the rest of her character. She doesn't doubt the path she's on because she has resolve. She's trained all her life with the strongest swordsman in the country (her father) and has a natural passion for swordsmanship. Calling her out for not having how "doubts" about her path in life is like calling out Tita for her passion for technology or Zin's for his unrelenting pursuit for Strength. These characters have a natural inclination for their callings, and are different from their more introspective counterparts (ie: Rean, Kilika).
This pretty much reads like "her character didn't go the way I want it to, so therefore she lacks development." I don't think explicitly expressing doubt is necessary for character development, but it's a moot point because Laura literally ends up being in conflict with herself in Chapter 4 anyway, and is 100% indecisive on how to deal with Fie. That's a pretty open and shut display of doubt, and it's especially notable coming from Laura, who up until now was characterized as this seemingly unflappable honor bound person. The fact that she has personal prejudices to overcome makes her more human, and brings her in line with everyone else.
They're all explicitly shown, though. You have an ample of NPCs to talk to with Laura that expand on her character. Her brief scenes with her dad convey a lot, and she has her butler in which she has a strong connection with. If you came off Chapter 5 feeling like you learned more about Emma of all characters, then you weren't paying enough attention, straight up.
It makes perfect sense. Upright and prideful Laura simply doesn't accept the kind of person Fie is. From her perspective she's a Jaegar, related to the dishonorable band of mercs who take any jobs and cause trouble for good honest folk. She let her preconceived notion of what Jaegar's are like color her entire opinion of Fie and was unable to let that go. She literally says this in game Don't tell me that completely went over your head? Like, you weren't expecting Laura to exposit some backstory about Jaeger's killing her mom or some garbage. It's just an incredibly natural and relatable plot beat, and one of the more nuanced cases of writing in CS1 (which is usually... overt)
It's not forced as I explained earlier. Just harder to parse since it isn't explicit.
Laura as a character is well set up. You learn everything there is to know about her, and everything related to her wants and abilities. Her character is challenged in a neat way, and she grows from there. She doesn't have a sob story or a defining moment that completely changes her, but her growth is more subtle, and it results in her becoming a more well-rounded person.
It's like a drug.... I can quit whenever I want!
No need to lie to yourself.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Great post, very well-written. Thank you for saving me the trouble of arguing about Laura too.
soulslayer
Member
Ohhh so the song in the Sen III trailer (the one with the lyrics of "Give into the madness and dance") isn't the opening theme for the game. This is still quite good, upbeat song though.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
The answer to the Laura question is one of having as much face time for major characters such as the Younger Arseid as ass-beating adminstering time.
Novel Mike
Member
In possible Sen 3 spoiler news I thought this was severely interesting. Not sure if even the pic linked is legit or not but this would certainly be a surprisingly twist...
Possible Massive spoiler warning
I followed that twitter account because of demo videos it was linking so I cannot say for sure if the picture is legit or not or if the claim is legit or not but thought it was interesting enough to pass along.
Possible Massive spoiler warning
Machias father is... evil?
Aliseyun on Twitter saying 2chan is discussing the idea that Machias' father is an Anguis. This link references the 5th Anguis is in Erebonia.
If that picture is legit somethings up to be sure.
Aliseyun on Twitter saying 2chan is discussing the idea that Machias' father is an Anguis. This link references the 5th Anguis is in Erebonia.
If that picture is legit somethings up to be sure.
I followed that twitter account because of demo videos it was linking so I cannot say for sure if the picture is legit or not or if the claim is legit or not but thought it was interesting enough to pass along.
ThatChairMan
Member
It was an amazing "explains everything" kind of deal.
Some Nobody
Junior Member
Coming into this thread and seeing someone explain Laura's character arc just reminds me why she is so obviously best girl.
Well, aside from Sara. But that's not fair.
Well, aside from Sara. But that's not fair.
Scrooge McDuck
Member
[CS2, Chapter 4 spoilers just in case]
Okay, this is probably just me being dumb but I can't see anything noteworthy in that picture. Help?
Yar. Jaegers are notorious mercenary groups with skeevy reputation. Laura is a swordwoman who values honor greatly. It really doesn't need anything deeper than that for a conflict to happen. Sure, it's trivial and petty - the characters themselves acknowledge this - but it doesn't make the problem any less relatable. That Falcom applied restraint and chose to and keep it low-key is something I really appreciate.
Though I do understand how people could fail to be empathetic to Laura's problem. In the first place, Class VII - heck, make it all Kiseki protagonists - are generally level-headed, considerate people that we grew to expect at least Machias-level tragedy for a character to have prejudicial hang-ups. Secondly, I feel like the game itself, taken alone, kinda falls short from properly conveying how bad the Jaegers' reputation really is. Unlike the whole snobby-noble thing that we get to experience first-hand, there are hardly anybody talking about the Jaegers and by that point the only group we've met is Bugbear, which is explicitly described as Jaeger-dissenters.
Though I do understand how people could fail to be empathetic to Laura's problem. In the first place, Class VII - heck, make it all Kiseki protagonists - are generally level-headed, considerate people that we grew to expect at least Machias-level tragedy for a character to have prejudicial hang-ups. Secondly, I feel like the game itself, taken alone, kinda falls short from properly conveying how bad the Jaegers' reputation really is. Unlike the whole snobby-noble thing that we get to experience first-hand, there are hardly anybody talking about the Jaegers and by that point the only group we've met is Bugbear, which is explicitly described as Jaeger-dissenters.
Okay, this is probably just me being dumb but I can't see anything noteworthy in that picture. Help?
In possible Sen 3 spoiler news I thought this was severely interesting. Not sure if even the pic linked is legit or not but this would certainly be a surprisingly twist...
Possible Massive spoiler warning
Machias father is... evil?
Aliseyun on Twitter saying 2chan is discussing the idea that Machias' father is an Anguis. This link references the 5th Anguis is in Erebonia.
If that picture is legit somethings up to be sure.
I followed that twitter account because of demo videos it was linking so I cannot say for sure if the picture is legit or not or if the claim is legit or not but thought it was interesting enough to pass along.
There's virtually no way, at least, that
he's the 5th, even if he were an Anguis. That position is all but completely locked down at this point - there's waaaaay too much evidence pointing to someone else. Ditto for 4th.
He does fit the profile for 1st, I suppose, although if it were him, that'd require some explaining for how it wasn't a certain someone else. And I expect certainly 5th and probably 4th to be unmasked in Sen III, so I don't think Falcom would play their hand so early by revealing the last of the Anguis when we've still got quite a bit left to go in the series.
He does fit the profile for 1st, I suppose, although if it were him, that'd require some explaining for how it wasn't a certain someone else. And I expect certainly 5th and probably 4th to be unmasked in Sen III, so I don't think Falcom would play their hand so early by revealing the last of the Anguis when we've still got quite a bit left to go in the series.
Pellegri Testament
Member
The eyes, it's basically their go to for saying that someone is evil.
Evidence for the prevalent theory on the Fifth Anguis:
- (The 3rd)
He speaks like an old man.
He is known as 破壊 ('one who broke a religious commandment').
He is operating in Erebonia during the Phantasmal Blaze Plan
This evidence point toward (3rd/CS2)
Barkhorn, the Eight Dominion who investigated the Salt Pale, mentored Gaius and is the Dominion operating in West Erebonia.
Were those eyes not present before in previous artwork? They're only NOW thinking there might be more to it?
Scrooge McDuck
Member
Oh, like the color? Hmm, I suppose Weissman's do have the same color...
EDIT:
But so are Joshua's and Tio's!
ResourcefulStar
Neo Member
I know that "Anton and Ricky are the Grandmaster!" is a running joke here, but... Sky the 3rd:
they attended Jenis at the same time as Lechter, didn't they? What if they are a part of his information network? I'm not suggesting they are secretly super spies, but they could be reporting on openly available information, like suspicious newspaper articles or the mood on the streets in important cities. I mean, where do these slackers even get the mira to pay for their travel expenses, which must have added up to a significant sum by this point?
And that wraps up Ao. Nonsensical thoughts and rants, focused mostly on the cast, below:
Story:
An absolute hell of a ride which makes for two fantastic games to wrap up the Crossbell story. A ton of highs with plenty of lows, but I feel the highs were able to overshadow the problems I had with the games. Story, as usual, is fantastic as it expands on the world that started in Sky, giving it depth that most JRPGs will never have. It's this continuing, progressing world that allows me to enjoy these games despite some of the questionable choices Falcom makes to appeal to certain demographics. Biggest surprise: the twist in Ao. It explains a lot of things in Zero and apparently even Cold Steel 1. My mind is blown.
Characters:
The story of the SSS is just incredible. I feel Estelle and Joshua's story slightly edges over the SSS, but only a little bit. Due to the cast being much smaller than Sky's overall, I didn't feel any of the characters came out underdeveloped. They were all given their proper arcs over the course of two games, but the writing felt much, much more tighter and compact compared to Sky or CS. The two golden jewels in the cast for me were definitely Randy and Tio, both having a fun relationship full of banter to their own individual stories hitting the right spots. I think it's a shame the addition of Wazy and Noel put a damper on their fun exchanges in Ao, but the former definitely was accompanied by a great backstory. As far as Lloyd, Elie, and Noel are concerned, I felt they were the most plain of the bunch with fairly straightforward arcs, but that didn't make them bad. My only real complaints would have to be how the story started becoming too Lloyd-centric in Ao; he was slightly bordering on being a Gary Stu.
The supporting cast also deserve great mentions from Arios, Shizuku, Sergei, Dudley, Rixia to everyone else. They all had roles that were utilized perfectly in the story; even Jona! Extend that to the antagonists from Ouroboros to the related parties in Crossbell. There's so many good characters that a single post wouldn't be enough to capture everything about them. If I had to say, I think the major selling point with the Crossbell cast is undoubtedly the focus on the theme of family with the SSS as the heart of it. Both games revolved around the idea, and the SSS was the realization of that theme, and they pulled it off. That said, I felt a few scenes and the focus on Lloyd kind of hurt the theme a bit especially at the end between Lloyd and KeA.
For side relationships, Randy and Mireille's relationship deserves the biggest special mention of them all. This strange feeling of happiness just wells up inside of me when one of the important characters has an actual clear defined relationship, romantic no less, with another character that isn't shoved to the side in some optional event and the MC having no involvement in. Instead of writing a character to be in a state where his or her romantic inclinations are neutral to fit the mold with potential partners, a character that is intentionally written to have a certain dynamic with another character feels so genuine. It just makes them so much more memorable in the same way Estelle/Joshua, Agate/Tita, Olivier/Schera, and Kevin/Ries are. God, I love Randy and Mireille; they're perfect for each other. My pet theory is that Randy and Mireille was the last bastion of sanity for canon pairings in the main cast before being banished to the underworld by the evil bonding system gods. I'll pray to Aidios in hopes that Kurt and Juna are the next candidate couple to make the cut.
Despite my complaints about Lloyd, I can say proudly that the SSS isn't the SSS without the original four; I couldn't really say this about Class VII, as an example. Another plus to the writers for not having the Sky cast overshadow the Crossbell cast, though their involvement led to all sorts of touching developments and fun. Renne's arc with Estelle and Joshua was just a joy to experience and watch. Random aside, I'm pretty sure Tio said Randy's name more than anyone else in the game further reinforcing my opinion that Tio and Randy make for a better pair than Lloyd and Tio ever will.
Crossbell also had plenty of fun NPCs in the town with Oscar and his tsundere coworker being one of my favorites. Definitely not as strong as the CS NPCs since they didn't have their own unique designs (though the official calendar has a few of them). It was also nice seeing some Liberl NPCs again. The frequent updating of the NPC dialogue after story events was ludicrous, though.
Battle System, Music, Etc:
I'm usually in these games for the story and characters, so I won't say much for the combat except turbo mode should've seriously been a thing back then. Music is top-tier as usual. My nominations for favorite tracks go to the Geofront theme and Inevitable Struggle. Now I'll need to listen to the original since only the Evolution score was available to me in the game.
Lastly, my biggest criticism goes to the pointless bonding system in both games. All of the events should've just been written properly into the story without having to force you to make choices between certain characters so you could deepen their bonds. It ultimately just ended up dragging down the good parts of an overall great package (and working against the idea of family above). Basically, remove the excess fat, and focus on the meat instead. And the whole harem dense protagonist shtick got pretty old fast with Lloyd.
Conclusion:
Loved the group image at the end of Ao. Great way to wrap up the Crossbell arc.
I wholeheartedly recommend playing these games if you can. It's just not right to skip these games and play only the CS games. It just isn't. And now on to my slowpoke rankings for the games: SC > Zero > Third > Ao > FC > CS1 > CS2
Fun fact, I started FC on 5/31 and I finished Ao on 9/22, taking me a little over 3 months and half to finish 6 games. What a ride! Now I'm ready for the next attraction next Thursday. Rising hypes for Randy and Tio again. And hopefully Mireille and Jona. Please!
Story:
An absolute hell of a ride which makes for two fantastic games to wrap up the Crossbell story. A ton of highs with plenty of lows, but I feel the highs were able to overshadow the problems I had with the games. Story, as usual, is fantastic as it expands on the world that started in Sky, giving it depth that most JRPGs will never have. It's this continuing, progressing world that allows me to enjoy these games despite some of the questionable choices Falcom makes to appeal to certain demographics. Biggest surprise: the twist in Ao. It explains a lot of things in Zero and apparently even Cold Steel 1. My mind is blown.
Characters:
The story of the SSS is just incredible. I feel Estelle and Joshua's story slightly edges over the SSS, but only a little bit. Due to the cast being much smaller than Sky's overall, I didn't feel any of the characters came out underdeveloped. They were all given their proper arcs over the course of two games, but the writing felt much, much more tighter and compact compared to Sky or CS. The two golden jewels in the cast for me were definitely Randy and Tio, both having a fun relationship full of banter to their own individual stories hitting the right spots. I think it's a shame the addition of Wazy and Noel put a damper on their fun exchanges in Ao, but the former definitely was accompanied by a great backstory. As far as Lloyd, Elie, and Noel are concerned, I felt they were the most plain of the bunch with fairly straightforward arcs, but that didn't make them bad. My only real complaints would have to be how the story started becoming too Lloyd-centric in Ao; he was slightly bordering on being a Gary Stu.
The supporting cast also deserve great mentions from Arios, Shizuku, Sergei, Dudley, Rixia to everyone else. They all had roles that were utilized perfectly in the story; even Jona! Extend that to the antagonists from Ouroboros to the related parties in Crossbell. There's so many good characters that a single post wouldn't be enough to capture everything about them. If I had to say, I think the major selling point with the Crossbell cast is undoubtedly the focus on the theme of family with the SSS as the heart of it. Both games revolved around the idea, and the SSS was the realization of that theme, and they pulled it off. That said, I felt a few scenes and the focus on Lloyd kind of hurt the theme a bit especially at the end between Lloyd and KeA.
This felt far too Lloyd-centric despite him going off on the idea of family and friends. There would've been far more impact if it had involved all four original members because they make the core of the SSS family.
For side relationships, Randy and Mireille's relationship deserves the biggest special mention of them all. This strange feeling of happiness just wells up inside of me when one of the important characters has an actual clear defined relationship, romantic no less, with another character that isn't shoved to the side in some optional event and the MC having no involvement in. Instead of writing a character to be in a state where his or her romantic inclinations are neutral to fit the mold with potential partners, a character that is intentionally written to have a certain dynamic with another character feels so genuine. It just makes them so much more memorable in the same way Estelle/Joshua, Agate/Tita, Olivier/Schera, and Kevin/Ries are. God, I love Randy and Mireille; they're perfect for each other. My pet theory is that Randy and Mireille was the last bastion of sanity for canon pairings in the main cast before being banished to the underworld by the evil bonding system gods. I'll pray to Aidios in hopes that Kurt and Juna are the next candidate couple to make the cut.
Despite my complaints about Lloyd, I can say proudly that the SSS isn't the SSS without the original four; I couldn't really say this about Class VII, as an example. Another plus to the writers for not having the Sky cast overshadow the Crossbell cast, though their involvement led to all sorts of touching developments and fun. Renne's arc with Estelle and Joshua was just a joy to experience and watch. Random aside, I'm pretty sure Tio said Randy's name more than anyone else in the game further reinforcing my opinion that Tio and Randy make for a better pair than Lloyd and Tio ever will.
Crossbell also had plenty of fun NPCs in the town with Oscar and his tsundere coworker being one of my favorites. Definitely not as strong as the CS NPCs since they didn't have their own unique designs (though the official calendar has a few of them). It was also nice seeing some Liberl NPCs again. The frequent updating of the NPC dialogue after story events was ludicrous, though.
Battle System, Music, Etc:
I'm usually in these games for the story and characters, so I won't say much for the combat except turbo mode should've seriously been a thing back then. Music is top-tier as usual. My nominations for favorite tracks go to the Geofront theme and Inevitable Struggle. Now I'll need to listen to the original since only the Evolution score was available to me in the game.
Lastly, my biggest criticism goes to the pointless bonding system in both games. All of the events should've just been written properly into the story without having to force you to make choices between certain characters so you could deepen their bonds. It ultimately just ended up dragging down the good parts of an overall great package (and working against the idea of family above). Basically, remove the excess fat, and focus on the meat instead. And the whole harem dense protagonist shtick got pretty old fast with Lloyd.
Conclusion:
Loved the group image at the end of Ao. Great way to wrap up the Crossbell arc.
I wholeheartedly recommend playing these games if you can. It's just not right to skip these games and play only the CS games. It just isn't. And now on to my slowpoke rankings for the games: SC > Zero > Third > Ao > FC > CS1 > CS2
Fun fact, I started FC on 5/31 and I finished Ao on 9/22, taking me a little over 3 months and half to finish 6 games. What a ride! Now I'm ready for the next attraction next Thursday. Rising hypes for Randy and Tio again. And hopefully Mireille and Jona. Please!
Sinh_Magnus
Member
You really should, I don't dislike evo versions but the originals are much better. Also, I can't believe you didn't mention the masterpiece that mystic core is
I agree with the bonding system for Ao. I actually like it in Zero, since it added a layer or replayability to the game without hurting the characters much, but in Ao they shouldn't have put
Łazy, Randy and Rixia backstories behind a bond wall since it added much to their respective characters.
encephalon
Member
It's "completely" finished!*
*
Finally we get to see the follow up to the game that was clearly not.
I really loved Zero and Ao. I'd easily rank them among the best JRPGs released in the last 20 odd years. There's something special about a game/series when hearing about
frozen assets
This is where I am. Sen III looks like it might be a bit better than II in that regard.
You really should, I don't dislike evo versions but the originals are much better. Also, I can't believe you didn't mention the masterpiece that mystic core is
Doh, I forgot. Mystic Core was dope as hell.
I'm glad I didn't play Zero and Ao pre-CS1. I'd go nuts.
encephalon
Member
I've been waiting for Sen III ever since.
I actually wasn't upset that Ao's ending was a bit of a downer; it added weight to their decisions and to Ao's plot developments. But a series of still images of the characters in the resistance effort felt a bit wanting. It's too bad they weren't actual scenes, even if they did a good job of portraying the reality post invasion.
When
Crossbell
Novel Mike
Member
So since Sen III is so close now any final predictions anyone wants to make?
One I'm most curious about is who will be the final boss. Even if its a situation where you end up fighting some crazy overworld being or something there is still generally someone behind it
anyone got any theories on that?
I'm thinking it'll end up being
I'm also really curious on how much they've already shown of the game, the CS2 demo movie showed quite a bit now that I've gone back and rewatched it. CS2 spoilers!!
My point being the CS3 demo movie shows a lot of various things and I wonder how much of that is from act 2 and beyond.
One I'm most curious about is who will be the final boss. Even if its a situation where you end up fighting some crazy overworld being or something there is still generally someone behind it
(like Weissman)
I'm thinking it'll end up being
Osborne but could be anyone from Oroborous or perhaps our young Prince Cedric.
I'm also really curious on how much they've already shown of the game, the CS2 demo movie showed quite a bit now that I've gone back and rewatched it. CS2 spoilers!!
It completely spoils that you get the Courageous as well as the Courageous taking on the Noble Alliance flagship outside of Heimdallr and the Rean vs. Crow fight is from the Intermission so they spoiled a major part of act 2 as well as various playable characters like Claire and Sharon from Act 1, then of course a bit from the final act as well. Nothing really that big outside of the Courageous reveal but still surprised they even showed that much.
My point being the CS3 demo movie shows a lot of various things and I wonder how much of that is from act 2 and beyond.
Certainly the scene announcing the war with Calvard would be act 2 and beyond right?
I think that the "dual final boss" structure of CS1 and 2 will return and be used to provide fights with both of the Sept-Terrion, one without Divine Knights and one with. I think Barkhorn will be one of the major humanoid antagonists, along with Osborne and likely others.
encephalon
Member
I was thinking about playing Sen III in hard mode, but I read in one of the famitsu reviews that the game is a bit more difficult than the last two. What difficulty mode to people plan to start the game in?
The more I watch the trailer, the more I'm afraid that there will either be a Sen IV, or that the there will be a cliffhanger leading from this arc to the next. There's something off about the fact that there aren't really any quick cuts of grand supernatural phenomenon we would expect to see in the final arc of the Sen series. Either that, or Falcom is being coy with the latter quarter/half of the game. But that would be unusual.
The more I watch the trailer, the more I'm afraid that there will either be a Sen IV, or that the there will be a cliffhanger leading from this arc to the next. There's something off about the fact that there aren't really any quick cuts of grand supernatural phenomenon we would expect to see in the final arc of the Sen series. Either that, or Falcom is being coy with the latter quarter/half of the game. But that would be unusual.
icecreamsnow
Member
I'm really hoping the fourth Anguis isn't
because that implies
Lechter
Osborne is going to get a large knife in his back
Scrooge McDuck
Member
Well, [Sky the 3rd]
Lechter already said that he might be preparing a large knife for Osborne's back right to his face, so I don't want him to be Anguis because that would kinda be unexciting. (and I want a Lechter vs. Campanella sequence. Just seems fitting)
Novel Mike
Member
Palette Swap
Member
Chekhovs gun. This was definitely foreshadowing something. I read that as a when, not an if.
(3rd, CS1, CS2 spoilers)
That door basically lays all the groundwork for CS when you look at these conversations:
- Osborne wants to crush the Noble faction before they unite. He half fails, but he still hedges his bets amazingly by having one of his Iron Bloods at the very center of their power structure.
- Osborne specifically mentions he has people dedicated to preventing assassination attempts. Again, it somehow works out in the end.
- All the annexion talk, and weve seen them happening again and again.
- The Olivert / Osborne confrontation is far from done. I assume and hope this will play a major role in CS3, as thats a central plot thread in the CS series. Ive said it before, but everyone from Class VII should have to pick a side at some point, starting with Rean.
So yeah, when Lechter says hell have to go against Osborne some day, its a promise I expect to see made good on. Not that it would necessarily mean hes part of Ouroboros or whatever.
- Osborne wants to crush the Noble faction before they unite. He half fails, but he still hedges his bets amazingly by having one of his Iron Bloods at the very center of their power structure.
- Osborne specifically mentions he has people dedicated to preventing assassination attempts. Again, it somehow works out in the end.
- All the annexion talk, and weve seen them happening again and again.
- The Olivert / Osborne confrontation is far from done. I assume and hope this will play a major role in CS3, as thats a central plot thread in the CS series. Ive said it before, but everyone from Class VII should have to pick a side at some point, starting with Rean.
So yeah, when Lechter says hell have to go against Osborne some day, its a promise I expect to see made good on. Not that it would necessarily mean hes part of Ouroboros or whatever.
One thing Id like to see in CS3 is
Hamel. It might be old news and kind of done to death by now, but AFAIK, Agate went to Erebonia to investigate the truth behind it, and getting to it would probably mean formally exposing Osbornes involvement.
Scrooge McDuck
Member
[3rd, CS2]
Yar, that's what I'm getting at. Lechter betraying Osborne while being a member of the Organization he declared war on would kinda be unexciting to me. I prefer his motivation to not be related to that whole thing.
Novel Mike
Member
See I always thought that...
CS1/2 spoilers
Osborne knew everything that was going to happen. He knew the Noble faction was right about to do a hostile takeover because Rufus was among them and it goes to suggest that means that he also knew that Crow was going to assassinate him and had something prepared to prevent that from actually happening. Heck in CS1 he flat out calls out Crow's last name suggesting he knew who shot him but if he knew that much why would he let himself get shot or let the noble alliance take over?
To move things forward, with them thinking hes out of the picture they show all of their cards and are set up to fall in the end because they don't realize that Rufus is an Ironblood. With the noble alliance losing suddenly all of Osborne's problems are gone, the noble faction suffers a heavy blow but also this perfectly sets up the Soldats and other mechs the Empire now has to attack and take over Crossbell plus now with a Divine Knight as well.
I think hes a master chess player and the Rufus reveal just showed that all the events from Cs1 and CS2 he actually let happen to strengthen his own position. Whats shows more power then coming back from the dead?
To move things forward, with them thinking hes out of the picture they show all of their cards and are set up to fall in the end because they don't realize that Rufus is an Ironblood. With the noble alliance losing suddenly all of Osborne's problems are gone, the noble faction suffers a heavy blow but also this perfectly sets up the Soldats and other mechs the Empire now has to attack and take over Crossbell plus now with a Divine Knight as well.
I think hes a master chess player and the Rufus reveal just showed that all the events from Cs1 and CS2 he actually let happen to strengthen his own position. Whats shows more power then coming back from the dead?
Palette Swap
Member
Yeah, thats exactly the vibe I got from playing the 3rd after the CS games. The games themselves instill the idea, but the 3rd pretty much spells it all out.
Which is what makes Osborne interesting because it establishes him as a player on par with the Church and Ouroboros.
This, in turn, implies Olivert is pretty ballsy for taking him on like that.
This, in turn, implies Olivert is pretty ballsy for taking him on like that.
I wonder how people who played the games in order saw the end of CS.
Novel Mike
Member
Thats exactly why I said fuck it and bought the Japanese version digitally. It's a lot better then getting major things spoiled for you ahead of time making the wait feel even longer and ruining any hype you might have.
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
XSEED makes a twitter post with the word "evolution" in it and some people start getting hyped thinking it's a Sky/Zero/Ao Evolution tease. Shaking my head.
Trails of the cat evolution is my favourite kiseki game.
...But no really, the evolution games from xseed are even more unlikely than getting the regular zero and ao before ToCS3. They're a legal nightmare, zero and ao would need a localisation, the sky games are arguably better in their current form on pc, there's mods in the works for the evo features if you do happen to want those, and the games definitely do not need the added confusion of "which version of the sky games should I go for" in addition to "what games do I need to play before the latest one".
If they do get released, it will be thanks to NISA or someone else throwing money at the appropriate parties. Guarantee it.
Nice. The twist in Ao still has me shook. If I had to compare it to something, it's on the same level I felt when I finished Automata earlier in the year.
Ao/CS1 spoilers:
Am I correct in thinking that the opening scenes of CS1 at Garellia Fortress is directly related, as far as how the scenario is concerned, to what KeA did at the beginning of Zero?
Sinh_Magnus
Member
Plenty of people have theorized that or similar.
The cannons did fire but Kea changed the worldline. I'm on the side that is only a coincidence though, I don't see them repeating the same twist
And I agree, it was the best twist of the duology (and probably the saga) for me
Why do they slightly adjust his hair color.
Smiles and Tears without the smiles.