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[Einchy]

And I think you're wrong..

You can't be an asshole if you're going through some shit? Kevin died and came back to life, that's maybe the most alienating thing possible, but he's not being an asshole.

Nora lost her children and while sad, many people did that day. She's a total douchebag but that's why she's such a good character.

[edit]

How many people there can say their daughter faked her death, almost destroyed the town, got killed by a drone and now everyone pretends like it was an accident.

Everyone in this show is going through some pretty alienating trauma but they're not assholes. Nora doesn't know how to deal with hers and judging from that scene from the future, chances are she never learned how to.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

You're crazy.
The music this episode had be cackling with joy

this.

 

[Discotheque]

That opening was cool in season 2 because they were pulling a little bait and switch with the season opener being fun family summer times in a new town

It's kinda lazy retreading the same thing with a new light hearted song for the new season. But eh no big deal

Lmao at the "wu tang band". This show is great at countering sadness with absurdity. Nora is a dick for sure but a great character too. We've seen enough tv at this point to realize they're far from mutually exclusive

 

[Chumley]

You can't be an asshole if you're going through some shit? Kevin died and came back to life, that's maybe the most alienating thing possible, but he's not being an asshole.

Nora lost her children and while sad, many people did that day. She's a total douchebag but that's why she's such a good character.

[edit]

How many people there can say their daughter faked her death, almost destroyed the town, got killed by a drone and now everyone pretends like it was an accident.

Everyone in this show is going through some pretty alienating trauma but they're not assholes. Nora doesn't know how to deal with hers and judging from that scene from the future, chances are she never learned how to.

A "total douchebag" now. Ok. You go on being a hyper-critical person all you want, doesn't make you correct.

 

[Einchy]

A "total douchebag" now. Ok. You go on being a miserable hyper-critical person all you want, doesn't make you correct.

How am I miserable or hypercritical?...

I hope you realize we're talking about people on a tv, they're not real. We don't have to be nice to them as to not hurt their feelings, we can call out their douchey behavior. It's fine.

Also, if you don't want to actually try countering what I say, don't even bother relying to my post. You just putting you fingers in your ears and saying I'm wrong doesn't make you right. Coulda done without the personal insults, too.

 

[Erigu]

If that's the level of depth you understood that scene at I don't know why you even watch the show.

Please explain, then?

 

[Chumley]

How am I miserable or hypercritical?...

I hope you realize we're talking about people on a tv, they're not real. We don't have to be nice to them as to not hurt their feelings, we can call out their douchey behavior. It's fine.

Also, if you don't want to actually try countering what I say, don't even bother relying to my post. You just putting you fingers in your ears and saying I'm wrong doesn't make you right. Coulda done without the personal insults, too.

You don't have to be nice to fictional characters, no, but you don't have to be pointlessly mean either. "Yeah, she lost her kids and her parents and her adopted kid, but she's a total douchebag right?" is a sentiment I really have no connection with at all. She's grieving and has been through horrible shit, even though she's fictional I don't feel comfortable judging as harshly as you do.

 

[Einchy]

You don't have to be nice to fictional characters, no, but you don't have to be pointlessly mean either. "Yeah, she lost her kids and her parents and her adopted kid, but she's a total douchebag right?" is a sentiment I really have no connection with at all. She's grieving and has been through horrible shit, even though she's fictional I don't feel comfortable judging as easily as you do.

Her not being able to deal with her trauma and angerly lashing out is part of her character arc. Why is it "mean" to talk about a fictional character's personality and defects?

I've no connection with trying to be nice to a character by ignoring parts of said character.

 

[Chumley]

Her not being able to deal with her trauma and angerly lashing out is part of her character arc. Why is it "mean" to talk about a fictional character's personality and defects?

I've no connection with trying to be nice to a character by trying to ignore parts of said character.

Never said anything about ignoring. It's about putting her character in a more empathetic perspective, which is kind of what the show is all about. Being empathetic. You can talk about what she does and why she does it without leaping straight to "asshole" and "total douchebag". But hell, if that's how you like to discuss things so be it, just don't pretend like it's the correct way for everyone.

 

[Einchy]

Never said anything about ignoring. It's about putting her character in a more empathetic perspective, which is kind of what the show is all about. Being empathetic. You can talk about what she does and why she does it without leaping straight to "asshole" and "total douchebag". But hell, if that's how you like to discuss things so be it, just don't pretend like it's the correct way for everyone.

I understand why she is what she is but the why doesn't change what she is. Her being a dick is part of her character. Kevin being a sad sack who is probably hoping someone would just end his life, this time for real, is not not being empathetic, it's seeing the characters for who they are.

I can feel for their struggle, and I do since I said I think she's a great character, but it doesn't change that she's a dick.

 

[Erigu]

Never said anything about ignoring. It's about putting her character in a more empathetic perspective, which is kind of what the show is all about. Being empathetic. You can talk about what she does and why she does it without leaping straight to "asshole" and "total douchebag". But hell, if that's how you like to discuss things so be it, just don't pretend like it's the correct way for everyone.

Hey, speaking of ignoring... I still don't know what I was missing in that money shredding scene that was 2deep4me.
Even if I'm nice and close my eyes on the whole con job aspect (and let's say it wouldn't work as well if they didn't pay for it), for a show that's "all about being empathetic", it still seems kinda dickish to just destroy those bills.
Hey, John, remember that orphaned kid from last season? How is he doing? Nope, still not seeing a better use for that cash?

I understand why she is what she is but the why doesn't change what she is. Her being a dick is part of her character.

When she showed up at John's wife's new address, I half expected her to go "hey, do you have a couple of windows I could break?"

 

[Einchy]

Hey, speaking of ignoring... I still don't know what I was missing in that money shredding scene that was 2deep4me.
Even if I'm nice and close my eyes on the whole con job aspect (and let's say it wouldn't work if they didn't pay for it), for a show that's "all about being empathetic", it still seems kinda dickish to just destroy those bills.
Hey, John, remember that orphaned kid from last season? How is he doing? Nope, still not seeing a better use for that paper?

Please stop being mean to that guy that shot Kevin and burned people's houses.

 

[Chumley]

Hey, speaking of ignoring... I still don't know what I was missing in that money shredding scene that was 2deep4me.
Even if I'm nice and close my eyes on the whole con job aspect (and let's say it wouldn't work as well if they didn't pay for it), for a show that's "all about being empathetic", it still seems kinda dickish to just destroy those bills.
Hey, John, remember that orphaned kid from last season? How is he doing? Nope, still not seeing a better use for that cash?

They aren't conning people. A con suggests they're using the money. They shred it because their actual intention is just to give people hope with no financial gain, and they take the money in the first place because they think someone having "skin in the game" makes it more real than it simply being free.

 

[Erigu]

They aren't conning people. A con suggests they're using the money. They shred it because their actual intention is just to give people hope with no financial gain

They don't need to destroy the money. They could actually use that money for good, too. Give it to charity, for example. Or help that one orphaned kid I mentioned in that post you just replied to.

and they take the money in the first place because they think someone having "skin in the game" makes it more real than it simply being free.

... You know, that post you just replied to without bothering to read it first. Or you would have realized you didn't need to explain that.

But please tell me more about "the level of depth I understand things at", Chumley.

 

[Chumley]

They don't need to destroy the money. They could actually use that money for good, too. Give it to charity, for example. Or help that one orphaned kid I mentioned in that post you just replied to.

No, if they use it for any reason at all, it becomes a con. They'd be doing it for financial gain, regardless of what the gain is used for. Shredding the money is sort of the integral part.

 

[Erigu]

No, if they use it for any reason at all, it becomes a con. They'd be doing it for financial gain, regardless of what the gain is used for.

Even charity? That actually makes sense to you?
Say, if that weren't a scene from a TV show you apparently like a whole lot, you would still think that makes sense? Really?

(Also, things I've learned today: if I steal something then destroy it, it's not technically theft.)

 

[Einchy]

We're going to con you out of your money, then not use the money for anything good because we care more about how we feel about ourselves than we do helping others with that money.

But this is somehow a good thing.

Even charity? That actually makes sense to you?
Say, if that weren't a scene from a TV show you apparently like a whole lot, you would still think that makes sense? Really?

(Also, things I've learned today: if I steal something then destroy it, it's not technically theft.)

Or that conning someone just has to do with taking and keeping money. Lots of con depth here.

 

[Chumley]

Even charity? That actually makes sense to you?
Say, if that weren't a scene from a TV show you apparently like a whole lot, you would still think that makes sense? Really?

(Also, things I've learned today: if I steal something then destroy it, it's not technically theft.)

Pretty sure I've made it as clear as possible, if you still don't get the thinking behind John and Laurie shredding the money that's on you. I think I get now why others here have you on ignore.

We're going to con you out of your money, then not use the money for anything good because we care more about how we feel about ourselves than we do helping others with that money.

But this is somehow a good thing.

Did I say it's a good thing? I was explaining the thought process behind shredding the money, which goes way deeper than simply being a con job.

 

[Erigu]

We're going to con you out of your money, then not use the money for anything good because we care more about how we feel about ourselves than we do helping others with that money.
But this is somehow a good thing.

I could really feel the empathy when they were having a good laugh over how they managed to convince their client they could communicate with his dead father.

 

[Einchy]

I could really feel the empathy when they were having a good laugh over how they managed to convince their client they could communicate with his dead father.

Why do you even watch this show when you don't understand the depths of being a con artist?

 

[Grizzlyjin]

This show is absolutely ridiculous. Nora has a Wu-Tang Clan tattoo. Who even thinks to come up with something like that? Great performance from Carrie Coon in this one, she had to carry almost the entire episode on her shoulders. Glad we got Regina King for a little bit too.

I wonder why she's having so much trouble with electronics. Maybe just to up Nora's frustration. It was kinda funny how she had to tell the photo guy which pic she wanted cause she couldn't use the kiosk.

Absolutely miniscule detail, but I'm glad they acknowledged that The Departure date would be October 15th for Australia, as opposed to the 14th in the States.

Also wondering what's up with the band of women on horseback. They found themselves a police chief named Kevin haha

 

[-Deimos]

Punished Nora is such a fitting title.

 

[Baron Aloha]

Provided the machine isn't a red herring, I think Kevin might go into it and disappear and thus 'prove' that it works in a weird sort of way. If he can't die then the machine can't kill him, and so, when he disappears and doesn't come back Nora will know it works but choose not to follow him. The incineration thing is an issue, but we don't know for sure if the people are incinerated.

2) We're shown that "the other side", can possibly have the same locations as Earth. Noah decides to try and reunite with her kids, and takes the chance. She's successfully transported to the other side. However, such a small percent of the population exists on this "other side", it's basically the apocalypse in itself. Modern society can't function with such a spread population across the planet, which explains the message pigeons and Noah roaming around on a bike.

I like this idea.

 

[Karu]

this show will have an ambigious ending

Spoiler

the ambigioustest!

and you will like it
don't fool yourself

 

[Buttonbasher]

That opening was cool in season 2 because they were pulling a little bait and switch with the season opener being fun family summer times in a new town

It's kinda lazy retreading the same thing with a new light hearted song for the new season. But eh no big deal

It's pretty clearly a one-off joke for this episode. It's the theme song from Perfect Strangers, and ends with Damon Lindelof, and Tom Perrotta's name's being replaced with their Wu-Tang Clan names from the online generator.

There's no way it's gonna be this for the whole season or anything.

 

[bodyofanamerican]

Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald are joined by the cocreator and showrunner of HBO’s ‘The Leftovers’ to discuss the ongoing shift in criticism of the show (2:05), the world-building from season to season (9:00), the Wu-Tang trampoline, and the first two episodes of Season 3 (35:20).

Some light spoilers as far as characters returning or not returning, and the general trajectory of a particular arc throughout the season. As always though, a good convo with Lindelof.

 

[Theorry]

Just got home. Leftovers time!

 

[iModem]

I love this show so much -- was going to read through this thread but Chumley and the other dude arguing is a buzzkill. Yikes.

Anyways, my thoughts on the show:

- love the new story threads, angles, the 3 year time jump, everything.

- hate the "this is Nora in the future" plotline, despite Nora being my favorite character

- hate the new song. S1 opener was weird but still fitting, S2's opener song (Let the Mystery Be) not only seems absolutely perfect thematically and tonally but has since hearing it on The Leftovers become one of my favorite songs ever. What the hell is that new song? Couldn't they have atleast used different visuals for it? I legit thought I had a random YouTube video playing in the background when I saw the new intro. Maybe it'll grow on me.

This show deserves to be a cultural phenomenon like LOST. It's so good!

 

[ThLunarian]

I love this show so much -- was going to read through this thread but Chumley and the other dude arguing is a buzzkill. Yikes.

Anyways, my thoughts on the show:

- love the new story threads, angles, the 3 year time jump, everything.

- hate the "this is Nora in the future" plotline, despite Nora being my favorite character

- hate the new song. S1 opener was weird but still fitting, S2's opener song (Let the Mystery Be) not only seems absolutely perfect thematically and tonally but has since hearing it on The Leftovers become one of my favorite songs ever. What the hell is that new song? Couldn't they have atleast used different visuals for it? I legit thought I had a random YouTube video playing in the background when I saw the new intro. Maybe it'll grow on me.

This show deserves to be a cultural phenomenon like LOST. It's so good!

The song was the opening credits theme for Perfect Strangers, the 80s sitcom that Mark Linn Baker starred in. It seems likely that that was a one time thing, and the credits will be different somehow next week.

 

[dave is ok]

What the hell is that new song? Couldn't they have atleast used different visuals for it? I legit thought I had a random YouTube video playing in the background when I saw the new intro. Maybe it'll grow on me

It's the Perfect Strangers theme song. I don't think they'll be using it again

 

[iModem]

The song was the opening credits theme for Perfect Strangers, the 80s sitcom that Mark Linn Baker starred in. It seems likely that that was a one time thing, and the credits will be different somehow next week.

Good news to me. I guess that's a neat in-joke, but I really did not enjoy it. Where's my AVRY BODEH ISA WAHNDERIN WHAT AND WHERE THEY AHL CAME FRAAAHM

 

[Miles Quaritch]

WU TANG!

What a great episode, the slow motion trampoline scene was by far the weirdest and yet most human scene I've seen in a show for some time. It shouldn't work, it had no right to and yet it just did.

 

[karmaforgotme]

Part of me doubted season 3 could be on par with season 2, but after last night I have no doubt. Simply the best show currently, and that's hard for me to say because I love Halt & Catch Fire almost as much.

 

[Grizzlyjin]

Oh, I guess I never really thought about how weird this would be for people not familiar with Perfect Strangers. That show has probably been out of syndication for awhile. Also having Mark Linn Baker play Mark Linn Baker. It's all so weird. But I love it.

 

[iModem]

Another thought:

I do hope they stop doing the 1-2 second cuts+callbacks to previous seasons. I understand it for the first episode, as the s3e1 lacked any sort of "PREVIOUSLY ON THE LEFTOVERS", y'know remind your audience what we've already seen. But the frequency with which they're using them is kind of ruining what should be subtle character moments, like Nora sympathizing with the actor in the hotel on the 1 in 128,000 odds of being 1 of 4 that didn't Depart.

We didn't need to see Nora walking in on her 3 family members being Departed again, she acted it beautifully and it didn't need to be shown to be a good humanizing moment.

 

[Skateboard P]

Watching this with my wife last night and she asked "Whats so funny?" when they revealed Nora's tattoo as I was laughing hysterically.

I just whispered to her: "Wu-Tang is for the children"

I love this show so much.

 

[keltickennedy]

That opening was cool in season 2 because they were pulling a little bait and switch with the season opener being fun family summer times in a new town

It's kinda lazy retreading the same thing with a new light hearted song for the new season. But eh no big deal

I thought the reason behind the song choice was a nod to Perfect Strangers? Having the only remaining actor from the old sitcom Mark Linn-Baker in that episode. They had a reference to it back in season one when there was a short news story about how people thought he was also departed with the rest of the cast, then it turned out he was hiding in Mexico.

https://youtu.be/8vbnLYROCj8

 

[Lorcain]

This show is so fucking weird...in a good way. The intro for this episode got a good wtf laugh out of me. Just when I think there's no way they can top the weirdness from previous episodes, the writers roll out a couple of unconnected pop culture references...during the same episode.

Nora was raw and brutal in this episode. She's a force. We can see already the seeds for conflict growing between her and Kevin with the whole Messiah thing. I'm eager to find out why she's influencing electronics. I wonder if the people that had the 1 in 128,000 odds of losing 3 or more family members actually emit that type of radiation referenced in the episode?

 

[Arkeband]

Another thought:

I do hope they stop doing the 1-2 second cuts+callbacks to previous seasons. I understand it for the first episode, as the s3e1 lacked any sort of "PREVIOUSLY ON THE LEFTOVERS", y'know remind your audience what we've already seen. But the frequency with which they're using them is kind of ruining what should be subtle character moments, like Nora sympathizing with the actor in the hotel on the 1 in 128,000 odds of being 1 of 4 that didn't Depart.

We didn't need to see Nora walking in on her 3 family members being Departed again, she acted it beautifully and it didn't need to be shown to be a good humanizing moment.

mmm I disagree, this is something that is really hard to pull off in live action (but is overused in things like anime), but somehow it works here. Everyone's kind of losing their mind and the way it snaps back to them makes it look like you just experienced a flashback from their perspective - and not in a cliche TV way where the screen flashes white and it gets all hazy, but the way actual flashbacks work, where you're suddenly back where you were and then suddenly you're not.

 

[Kenzodielocke]

Are we supposed to know who those elderly women are? I already was having a tough time recognizing Nora in the first episode.

 

[Dany]

Are we supposed to know who those elderly women are? I already was having a tough time recognizing Nora in the first episode.

Nah. We don't know who they are.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Why do you even watch this show when you don't understand the depths of being a con artist?

That's the final secret left to reveal, and will be featured in the final episode of Lindelof's final television project, whenever and whatever that may be.

I for one am very much looking forward to the reveal.

I am sure it will be very satisfying.

 

[Ogni-XR21]

Great episode. I actually laughed out loud multiple times. The juxtaposition of sad and funny moments worked really well for me. The Nora focused episode in season 2 was one of my favorites and this one was great too.

Man I will really miss this show.

Regarding the opening, I really hope they end up using the season 1 intro for the final episode.

 

[Theorry]

Music was on point this episode. The answers to Lily and the tattoo is most answers we got in this show haha.

 

[Kadayi]

Great stuff. Carrie Coon was excellent, even though Nora was an asshole. Though Chris's comment, albeit not intentional was brutal.

I was a bit shocked with the reveal about Christine having pursued custody of Lily. I was half expecting it to be a case that Erika had taken/adopted her given the death of Evie, though I'm kind of glad that wasn't the case, as it would have felt hokey. I hope we see more of Erika though. I want to know what happened after the events of Season 2 and the aftermath and what she's up to now.

Also glad that Kevin didn't burn the book.

 

[KraftyKrankins]

Wow, how did I not recognize Christine on the playground? Great episode overall. The Wu Tang scene was a little weird, not in the good way.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Wow, how did I not recognize Christine on the playground? Great episode overall. The Wu Tang scene was a little weird, not in the good way.

Yes. In the GREAT way.

 

[Buttonbasher]

Yes. In the GREAT way.

Agreed. Best moment in the episode, easily.

 

[Memento Mori]

We know she's doesn't get incinerated because of the end of episode 1

True but that flashforward might only be set a week later after she suffers a lot of skin damage from the cancer oven.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Agreed. Best moment in the episode, easily.

And when they dropped that like Christopher O'Riley does Radiohead version of the Perfect Strangers theme my god