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[Metaphoreus]

A step in the right direction for England, maybe. There are many instances in history of "steps in the right direction", many much more significant than the Magna Carta. Yet the only reason it gets mentioned is Eurocentrism. More specifically, Anglocentrism. But yeah, edgy, sure.

, he wrote in English.

I wonder if there's any kind of historical connection between the countries commemorating the 800th anniversary and England?

 

[DrSlek]

Magna Carta is hailed as such a human rights achievement but it isn't. It protected barons, not all people, to a fair trial. There were still peasants. Peasants had no real rights, only the nobility (barons) did. But hooray for Eurocentric history.

Judging a document written 800 years ago by the standards of today is silly. Stop being silly.

 

[ChainedMaster]

No one's claiming it was a gift to all mankind. It's an important moment in English history, that's all. It has every right to celebrate it.

From the OP:

It charted the right to a fair trial,

So yeah, it is attempting to claim it was some humanitarian gift. Many people believe this, and it's false.

 

[victreeb3l]

Came here for Hyung Tae Kim art, wasn't disappointed. Good job, GAF.

 

[Cameron122]

Archbishop Stephen Langton has founded the "Lower Crown Authority in the Kingdom of England" Faction.

Time to pay off his spymaster

 

[FyreWulff]

Know how we have Americans today that masturbate about anything Founding Fathers?

this is what the founding fathers masturbated about


it gave rights to very few people and it's not really that important in the scope of things on a worldwide scale. Overblown by anglophiles.

 

[lastplayed]

From the OP:



So yeah, it is attempting to claim it was some humanitarian gift. Many people believe this, and it's false.

It's all in article in the OP.

As to all the modern-day brouhaha around the anniversary - that rests particularly on another principle bequeathed by the charter to subsequent generations, a principle fundamental to British law and the law of many other nations, including the United States.

Magna Carta's most famous clauses forbid the king to sell, deny or delay justice, and protect any free man from arbitrary imprisonment "save by the lawful judgement of his peers or by the law of the land".

"Free men" in 1215 accounted for less than half the population - the rest were serfs, to whom the charter did not apply. And "men" meant men - women, except for widows, merit barely a mention in Magna Carta.

But the principle was established. The law could serve as a bulwark against tyranny. And once established, it has never been revoked.

 

[CaptainGyro]

never heard of it

 

[bobbychalkers]

Jay has had better albums

 

[diamount]

I don't think it was particularly adhered too if took until Charles I to be executed.

 

[RedShift]

A step in the right direction for England, maybe. There are many instances in history of "steps in the right direction", many much more significant than the Magna Carta. Yet the only reason it gets mentioned is Eurocentrism. More specifically, Anglocentrism. Only thing Magna Carta guaranteed was more rights to the lower nobility. But yeah, edgy, sure.

Im English, forgive me if my interest in history is slightly anglocentric.

Not to mention the legacy of the Magna Carta also affects the U.S., Aus, NZ, Can, etc., whoch I expect together make up about 90% of the people on this board.

When it's the 800th Anniversary of those far more signigcant victories for Liberty you can make a thread about them and maybe we can go shit them up like you're doing to this one.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Didn't mean much to my people. I'll not be celebrating.

I'll be over here celebrating Juneteenth a few days later.

150th anniversary, no less.

 

[RELAYER]

Im English, forgive me if my interest in history is slightly anglocentric.

Not to mention the legacy of the Magna Carta also affects the U.S., Aus, NZ, Can, etc., whoch I expect together make up about 90% of the people on this board.

When it's the 800th Anniversary of those far more signigcant victories for Liberty you can make a thread about them and maybe we can go shit them up like you're doing to this one.

Yeah, criticizing European history for being "Eurocentric" was a definitely a new one for me, lol.

 

[Chariot]

A step in the right direction for England, maybe. There are many instances in history of "steps in the right direction", many much more significant than the Magna Carta. Yet the only reason it gets mentioned is Eurocentrism. More specifically, Anglocentrism. Only thing Magna Carta guaranteed was more rights to the lower nobility. But yeah, edgy, sure.

Jesus, salty american man. Mind that your dynasty has a past that probably roots back to Europe. Most americans seem to forget that they are Europaens that slaughered most of the actual americans. No present without the past.

 

[Kabouter]

Incredible document that was a first step to something much greater

 

[thenexus6]

I enjoyed this manga

 

[Necromanti]

I didn't know the Magna Carta was so...controversial.

 

[Currygan]

A step in the right direction for England, maybe. There are many instances in history of "steps in the right direction", many much more significant than the Magna Carta. Yet the only reason it gets mentioned is Eurocentrism. More specifically, Anglocentrism. Only thing Magna Carta guaranteed was more rights to the lower nobility. But yeah, edgy, sure.

god, the ignorance is making me want to puke

 

[Cindres]

A step in the right direction for England, maybe. There are many instances in history of "steps in the right direction", many much more significant than the Magna Carta. Yet the only reason it gets mentioned is Eurocentrism. More specifically, Anglocentrism. Only thing Magna Carta guaranteed was more rights to the lower nobility. But yeah, edgy, sure.

Then please, enlighten us on your many example of more important (relevant) historical documents.

 

[Basileus777]

Magna Carta is hailed as such a human rights achievement but it isn't. It protected barons, not all people, to a fair trial. There were still peasants. Peasants had no real rights, only the nobility (barons) did. But hooray for Eurocentric history.

Pretty much. Decentralized power in a feudal state was rarely good for anyone but the rich and powerful. It's just a document given symbolic meaning far beyond what actually existed.

 

[Goro Majima]

I've seen the copy that Ross Perot lent to the National Archives in DC. Would have been cool if it stayed there but it was supposedly moved and sold.

 

[Africanus]

Magna Carta is hailed as such a human rights achievement but it isn't. It protected barons, not all people, to a fair trial. There were still peasants. Peasants had no real rights, only the nobility (barons) did. But hooray for Eurocentric history.

I understand your complaint, and truly, a part of why this is heralded is eurocentrism, one must not forget that.

However, people knowingly limiting the power of a king is an achievement. Be it the mandate of heaven in the Chinese dynasty, or the chosen one of the Abrahamic god in numerous european nation-states, absolute power was rather, well, absolute. The ability to break that from the "grounded" side of the heaven-king-people relationship was a feat.

Now, in truth, did the main part of the magna carta have any immediate effects for the peasantry? Perhaps not. But that initial stance against the king would allow for further opportunities by them down the line.

It's why I don't take offense to England appreciating a piece of history. If I were to reflect on the Declaration of Independence, one might have a valid objection to the phrase "all men are created equal" versus the reality of the day (and today). But it is the ramifications of it (In places such as France, Haiti, the U.S. itself, et cetera) that makes it celebrated.

 

[Kabouter]

Now, in truth, did the main part of the magna carta have any immediate effects for the peasantry? Perhaps not. But that initial stance against the king would allow for further opportunities by them down the line.

Indeed, this is similar to how I look at the Act of Abjuration. It firmly established the idea that monarchs are subservient to the people, rather than the other way around. The state that resulted from it was still effectively a plutocracy, but the principles it defined lasted nonetheless and would eventually lead to real rights for the common man.

 

[Good Job Bob]

Charter of the Forest > Magna Carta

 

[Johnny M]

Magna Carta is hailed as such a human rights achievement but it isn't. It protected barons, not all people, to a fair trial. There were still peasants. Peasants had no real rights, only the nobility (barons) did. But hooray for Eurocentric history.

Maybe Anglocentric. Magna Carta wasn't the first one to begin with.

1188 Cortes of León
"Was a parliamentary body in the medieval Kingdom of León. According to John Keane's book "The Life and Death of Democracy", was the first sample of modern parliamentarism in the history of Western Europe.

This was a medieval organisation composed of aristocrats and bishops but because of the seriousness of the situation and the need to maximize political support, Alfonso IX took the decision to also call the representatives of the urban middle class from the most important cities of the kingdom to the assembly.

León's Cortes dealt with matters like the right to private property, the inviolability of domicile, the right to appeal to justice opposite the King and the obligation of the King to consult the Cortes before entering a war."

http://www.interun.ru/ss/interun/u/files/charterv_e.pdf

 

[soundscream]

GAF can't read that because they didn't learn superior cursive in school.

Millennials maybe, but I was taught it in school.

 

[Shai-Tan]

for those interested in some background check out this econtalk podcast:

http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2015/05/nicholas_vincen.html

edit:

same guy on In Our Time (another great podcast)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00k4fg7

 

[Jill Sandwich]

Charter of the Forest > Magna Carta

Here come the mediaeval charter snobs.

 

[codhand]

Here come the mediaeval charter snobs.

they ruin everything

 

[Shai-Tan]

Maybe Anglocentric. Magna Carta wasn't the first one to begin with.

what I learned from that podcast I linked is that part of the legacy of the magna carta was that it was reissued many times (in part because of the peculiarity of successive rulers)

 

[CyclopsRock]

Here come the mediaeval charter snobs.

You can install your sun-dials based on them, truly.

 

[terrisus]

King John, I tell you...

 

[mullet2000]

GAF can't read that because they didn't learn superior cursive in school.

>Cursive
>Superior

As an archivist my biggest headache by far is reading things written in cursive. Tons and tons of documents, especially personal documents, are really just scribbled out with little thought or technique, rendering them unreadable. It's a huge pain.

The death of cursive is one of the greatest things about the modern day.

 

[Jill Sandwich]

I'm going to write my will in Chancery Hand just to be a dick.

 

[FoxSpirit]

*salutes*
Our first step to what will be a lawful world for everyone.
We are still not done, all people are still not equal but it's great to remember the foundational stone.

 

[Ivan Amiibo]

let's go.

that game was hot buttered garbage. the best part was the concept art

 

[CharminUltra]

King John: The Magna Carta was a mistake, it's nothing but trash.

 

[Not]

"Anglocentricism" was the word I was looking for. But I decided to be snarky instead

Indeed, this is similar to how I look at the Act of Abjuration. It firmly established the idea that monarchs are subservient to the people, rather than the other way around. The state that resulted from it was still effectively a plutocracy, but the principles it defined lasted nonetheless and would eventually lead to real rights for the common man.

Funny how even with the Bill of Rights and the Constitution we still live in a plutocracy. It's like, you can't do nothin' 'bout human nature

Millennials maybe, but I was taught it in school.

Me too, so at least as late as 2001, they all thought we would still use cursive as adults

 

[Reverend Funk]

Still upset that its not made of lava.

 

[ChainedMaster]

god, the ignorance is making me want to puke

Yet you have no complaints of describing the Magna Carta as a document that guaranteed the right to a fair trial and taxation without representation in the OP? Hah, sure. Strange how everyone is jumping on me for pointing out the false statements being made in the OP and by multiple other posters.