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The NCAA knew EA Sports had real players 'hidden' in college football games

War Eagle

Member
Interesting article about the current state of the NCAA football lawsuit.

Here are four things we learned.

1. EA just wanted its games to be like television, which proves the point.

The biggest revelation from the new documents is that Electronic Arts and the Collegiate Licensing Company asked the NCAA to allow for the use of player names and faces in video games way back in 2007. EA specifically wanted to use team rosters in the game and player names on jerseys, and eventually incorporate "facial likenesses" in stages to the game.

The most interesting aspect of EA's request is its rationale, that it would simply be doing what the television broadcasts were already doing:

EA requested the ability to represent college athletes in the games "just as they are shown on TV broadcasts," according to the NCAA document. "This means putting student-athlete names on rosters and on jerseys in the game, and secondarily using facial likenesses (this could be done in stages)."
This is precisely the argument that the O'Bannon plaintiffs have been making. They argue that the use of player likenesses in the NCAA-related video games pales in comparison to the use of player likenesses in televised games.

The NCAA, conferences, and schools readily permit their television partners to use player likenesses, permission that is denied to anyone who does not pay millions for broadcast rights. The players have said they deserve a cut of those rights, because it is their likenesses that are making those broadcast rights valuable. EA's request has only confirmed that.


2. Cease and desist j/k lol

It used to be that a Sports Illustrated subscription came with a football phone. The advent of cell phones made the football phone less attractive, so SI began distributing DVDs of championship teams to new subscribers.

In 2008, it offered an LSU football championship DVD, which is a fairly blatant violation of likeness usage rules. An LSU official asked NCAA associate director Leeland Zeller if this would make the players included in the DVD ineligible, as NCAA regulations would dictate. Zeller's response? Sure it's a violation, but don't get in the way of the gravy train:

Leeland Zeller writes back to the LSU official that an NCAA rules interpretation "clearly addresses" and prohibits "the use of the DVD as 'premium' in conjunction with a subscription. ... Regardless, SI does this every year. If the school asks about it, they are advised to send a cease and desist letter, which preserves the eligibility of the student-athletes. SI ignores the letter and we all go on about our business."
The cease-and-desist letter from the school is apparently enough to preserve eligibility for any players involved, so the school's interest ends there. And with Sports Illustrated presumably paying for the video footage used, the NCAA is getting its cut. So long as nobody is hurt, there's no enforcement of the obvious violation.

Remember that the next time your team's players are forced to repay $3.10 for eating too much pasta.

3. Brad Nessler didn't know those names by accident.

Before game systems had WiFi access, the rosters on NCAA video games had to be entered by memory card exchange or hand-typed, yet the in-game announcers always seemed to know even the most difficult of names once those rosters were in place.

"ROSTERS ARE EMBEDDED WITHIN THE GAME (HIDDEN, IN A WAY)."
The fact that in-game announcer Brad Nessler could properly pronounce "Leinart," or that you were recruiting Steve Tebow at defensive tackle in the fourth year of your dynasty, was not by accident:

"Using the rosters in the games, and maybe the names of student-athletes on jerseys in the game would be worthwhile," the NCAA document said in summarizing CLC's position. "Reasons: 1) EA would put into each game all players on the entire roster and they include over 140 Div. I schools in their games; 2) Rosters are imbedded [sic] within the product/game (hidden, in a way) not on the cover/outside when you buy the product; and 3) this would wipe out 3rd party infringers -- better to have schools/conferences and the NCAA control this."
EA and the CLC argued that the "hidden" rosters were already there, so extending that to include player names on jerseys would only bring it into the open. Anyone who played the series during the mid-aughts knows exactly what EA meant.

This also shows that the NCAA knew that the rosters were implicitly part of these games going back to at least 2007, a fact that could be an issue in the NCAA's claim against Electronic Arts and the CLC. The NCAA's claim against the video game manufacturer -- brought after EA entered a settlement with the players this fall -- alleges that it was EA's mistakes that could lead to NCAA liability. The NCAA's knowledge of, and fairly explicit consent to, EA's likeness usage could make it difficult for its claims to survive.

In May 2013, a former EA Sports producer admitted under oath that the company replicated real players, and a company executive claimed the NCAA approved matching virtual jersey numbers to real numbers.


4. The NCAA is why you still have to make that "academic prestige" recruiting pitch in NCAA Football dynasty mode.

One of EA's proposed concessions to the NCAA for the right to use player likenesses? Including "academic-related features" in the game.

In exchange for more authentic video games, EA offered to recommit to inserting NCAA-requested elements like "academic related features, APR, NCAA values etc.," the document said.
If there's one thing that would make that Heisman mode even better, it's having to spend an hour in study hall doing multiplication tables. This also explains the disciplinary features in some of the older versions of the game, when you would have to sit your starting quarterback because he broke a rule. You could pretend he was caught throwing pumpkins off an overpass.


Yet, this again has a legal consequence. EA felt it was worth bargaining for player rights by giving the NCAA something it wanted. Such an act shows that the player likenesses had at least some value, a key part of the players' case that has been fought at every turn by the NCAA.

How valuable are the player names and faces? Valuable enough to make the game boring, and it is the job of expert witnesses to say how much that could be.

http://www.sbnation.com/college-foo...bannon-vs-ncaa-football-ea-sports-video-games
 

mr stroke

Member
This is insane that there still hasn't been a resolution. How in hell is no one releasing a NCAA game in 2014.

Doesn't that series sell millions of copies.
 

Daedardus

Member
Can someone explain this to a European brethren? I tried following this but I have a hard time comprehending this all. Is college sport really that popular?
 

Arkam

Member
This is insane that there still hasn't been a resolution. How in hell is no one releasing a NCAA game in 2014.

Doesn't that series sell millions of copies.

Because working with the NCAA is a major pain in the ass. I say this from personal experience. They (like many licensees) want to have their cake and eat it too. They rake you over coals to draft a contract only to then argue that it's unfair and needs to be amended because THEY did not fully understand wtf they licensed. This happens way too often.

Word of advise is never ever build a franchise that is dependent on a property you do not own. It will eventually bite you in the ass.
 
I'm really enjoying watching the NCAA slowly burn.

Yeah. I remember an NPR story from last year about an NCAA player who was kicked out because people bought groceries for him because he was starving and broke.

NCAA scholarship = you can't take ANY other money or gifts. And the scholarship didn't cover enough funds.

Two years after 1995’s aborted strike effort, then-linebacker Ramogi Huna faced another NCAA irony. His teammate, All-American linebacker Donnie Edwards, mentioned in a radio interview that he was having trouble supporting himself on his scholarship. In response, an anonymous donor sent a bag of groceries to Edwards’ door. That year the university was making money selling jerseys with Edwards’ number. But the NCAA suspended Edwards for accepting the groceries. “We were all pretty ups … ,” says Huna. “It was something we could all relate to.” Huna says that after eating five or six meals a day as a high school athlete, he had struggled to keep his weight up in college. “I had lost 15 pounds my freshman year.” In response to the Edwards episode, Huna formed the National College Players Association (NCPA).

http://www.salon.com/2012/03/11/madness_of_march_ncaa_gets_paid_players_dont/

Terrible terrible organization.
 

ramuh

Member
I'm really enjoying watching the NCAA slowly burn.

Once again the NCAA proves that player's likeness is an asset that can be sold. Once again the NCAA engorges itself on revenue from its business, as well as revenue from bowl and TV distribution deals. And once again, student-athletes are getting the shaft.
 

Jtrizzy

Member
Can someone explain this to a European brethren? I tried following this but I have a hard time comprehending this all. Is college sport really that popular?

It's hugely popular. More than pro sports in many parts of the US. I really can't put it into words...I hate the NCAA so much.
 

mr stroke

Member
Once again the NCAA proves that player's likeness is an asset that can be sold. Once again the NCAA engorges itself on revenue from its business, as well as revenue from bowl and TV distribution deals. And once again, student-athletes are getting the shaft.

Well they do get a free education at an otherwise expensive school.
(though I do believe they should be some what compensated)
 
You guys need to get over wanting a new NCAA game. Nobody is going to touch it, not with a ten-foot pole. The NCAA is so obviously corrupt that anybody partnering with them opens themselves up to endless lawsuits.

Instead, enjoy watching the NCAA burn.

For instance, if you want further reading about ANOTHER case in which the NCAA is being sued, check this out: http://www.cbssports.com/collegefoo...se-shouldnt-mean-unsealing-investigative-file

In short, the NCAA maliciously went after a USC assistant coach several years ago. The assistant coach has been suing for defamation since, and with good cause -- a judge has already ruled that the NCAA went after McNair maliciously -- as in, taking the word of a felon over an ex-con felon Earlier, while nobody was paying attention, the NCAA rushed to seal the records so nobody could see how fucked up they were. McNair and other parties (the press, for instance) want the records unsealed, obviously. The NCAA is fighting tooth and nail to keep the records sealed. Their argument?

"The NCAA argues in defense of an ongoing defamation suit that possible "factual errors, inadequate investigation and overt hostility" by the association should not help the case of former USC assistant coach Todd McNair."

Literally: "We may have been wrong in our findings, completely incompetent in our investigation, and hostile to the defendant, but that doesn't mean he has a case or anything!"
 
Can someone explain this to a European brethren? I tried following this but I have a hard time comprehending this all. Is college sport really that popular?

A bunch of people make a shit ton of money off student-athletes without reimbursing them. The professional football league gets a free minor league circuit to recruit from. Fans shell out their money to the NCAA and its respective partners to watch the players literally kill themselves.

It's a messed up system and its slowly fading away.
 
Can someone explain this to a European brethren? I tried following this but I have a hard time comprehending this all. Is college sport really that popular?

Yes. In some places it is the most popular sport. I liken college football in the south and in places like Ohio, Michigan, etc as European soccer fans. Lifelong fans, extremely passionate, sellout crowds, some places sell out 100k seat stadiums.

The NCAA which governs college sports, claims athletes aren't employees. Therefore they get no profits from the revenue. Meanwhile, the NCAA makes billions of dollars. Some athletes are suing for companies using their likeness for profit without compensating them.
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Once again the NCAA proves that player's likeness is an asset that can be sold. Once again the NCAA engorges itself on revenue from its business, as well as revenue from bowl and TV distribution deals. And once again, student-athletes are getting the shaft.

Many get full-ride scholarships, which can add up to well over $100,000 EACH.

Sorry--to me, that's not "getting the shaft."
 

ramuh

Member
Well they do get a free education at an otherwise expensive school.
(though I do believe they should be some what compensated)

Ya. The students do receive free education/board. But in relation to the money made, it still a crazy difference in amount. The flip side of this, is that these NCAA revenue's support other not as popular schools (through conference revenue sharing) and not profitable athlete activities (like a track or golf team). So if there is going to be revenue given to student athletes it would have to be done very carefully. I would like the NCAA to admit they are employees, pay them fairly but not ridiculously. And have a strict limit on money they can receive as this would mean those bigger schools can pay more to get better talent while low profit schools wouldn't be able to get anybody.
 
Can someone explain this to a European brethren? I tried following this but I have a hard time comprehending this all. Is college sport really that popular?

College football is one of the most popular sports in the country. College basketball also gains has a large following, especially during "March Madness" (its playoff tourney). But it's nowhere near as popular as college football.
 

War Eagle

Member
Even as a fellow Auburn fan, you have to admit that the NCAA is an awful organization.

I share your pain in missing out on the football game, though. Just can't bring myself to care about Madden.

No, no I agree. It just hurts so much because CFB is the only sport I TRULY love and have a borderline addictive obsession with.

Can someone explain this to a European brethren? I tried following this but I have a hard time comprehending this all. Is college sport really that popular?

Yes, it is. College football is the third most popular sport in America. Also, both my username and avatar are college football related.
 

kirblar

Member
Ya. The students do receive free education/board. But in relation to the money made, it still a crazy difference in amount. The flip side of this, is that these NCAA revenue's support other not as popular schools (through conference revenue sharing) and not profitable athlete activities (like a track or golf team). So if there is going to be revenue given to student athletes it would have to be done very carefully. I would like the NCAA to admit they are employees, pay them fairly but not ridiculously. And have a strict limit on money they can receive as this would mean those bigger schools can pay more to get better talent while low profit schools wouldn't be able to get anybody.
The revenue isn't true. It's essentially a huge marketing expense. My school, GMU, has actively refused to do a non-club football team because the economics don't make sense.

edit: article on the rationale from WaPo here: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-state-of-nova/post/george-mason-and-big-time-football-probably-not/2012/04/05/gIQAuc5ewS_blog.html
 

Lunar15

Member
Remember that the next time your team's players are forced to repay $3.10 for eating too much pasta.

JNfN77x.gif


What a fucking mess.
 

kneePat

Member
Many get full-ride scholarships, which can add up to well over $100,000 EACH.

Sorry--to me, that's not "getting the shaft."

LOL, many of the athletes that get full-rides generally don't finish their degrees. What's that scholarship really worth to them. Imagine if they' d just be allowed to turn pro after graduating high school.

Additionally, playing a sport at the college level is so demanding that many of these 'student'-athletes would never be academically eligible for a degree after four years anyway, how did these guys not 'get the shaft'? The NCAA and the schools know this. Its not uncommon for these guys to enter the NBA with a reading level equivalent to a fifth grader as was the case for example for some UNC players. At least some of them got into the NBA, what about the others? I guess the scholarship is just payment for them.

Also, some of these 'student'-athletes are just not qualified for a college education. But sure we can stick to the narrative that all these guys are 'students' instead of extremely underpaid employees/slaves.

The so called 'scholarships' for these guys is just a tool used to control them.
 

KePoW

Banned
Can someone explain this to a European brethren? I tried following this but I have a hard time comprehending this all. Is college sport really that popular?

College Football is the second most popular sport in America. It's huge.

The NCAA pretends to say it's still an amateur sport, but billions of dollars are involved.
 

Bluecondor

Member
I am a huge college sports fan (and have bought dozens of NCAA video games over the years), but it is clear to me that the organization refuses to evolve - despite the multi-billion dollar revenues generated in its various deals.

All the NCAA needed (even needs) to do is to create a revenue agreements with the players that are comparable to the Olympics. Is the Olympics ruined because Michael Phelps has greater commercial opportunities than some random member of Belgium's badminton team?
 
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