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[XiaNaphryz]

oh, come on! that $10/hr turns into $15/hr when you're doing OT...good-bye ramen hello chef boyardee!

it's probably been mentioned, but to those thinking of working QA, $10/hr can work for a few months and maybe even longer but unless you're good at keeping your costs of living low, it'll wear on you.

I'm pretty sure you should be over the 10/hr rate by now anyway. ;P

 

[M3wThr33]

It's pretty hardcore there.

I wouldn't say hardcore. I'd say it's dangerous. I imagine most kids are straight out of high school and living on their own for the first time. They need a bit of encouragement to stop working.

 

[Iaido Sword]

That's almost always a sign of poor time management early on in the project.

Wow, it's like you're ready to judge the dedication of a person because they work really hard through the day and night.

Seriously, there are students that are there day and night to make the most spectacular games. Imagine making a full fledge somewhat open world game in 9 months with 10 people.

I wouldn't say hardcore. I'd say it's dangerous. I imagine most kids are straight out of high school and living on their own for the first time. They need a bit of encouragement to stop working.

Those guys get weeded out real early.

I know a lot of dropouts that came straight from highschool. They have no idea how hard are these kinds of schools.

 

[Iaido Sword]

Can someone sum up this thread please? I really want to join in on the fun.

People think I'm an idiot (I'm the guy mentioned in the thread title).

You may as well join in the fun, but I think things are settling down now. :lol

 

[kamikaze]

I'm pretty sure you should be over the 10/hr rate by now anyway. ;P

i'm just warning the youngins.

(those 3do days were a long time ago now, weren't they?)

 

[M3wThr33]

Those guys get weeded out real early.

I know a lot of dropouts that came straight from highschool. They have no idea how hard are these kinds of schools.

Not even that. They aren't working 18 hour days because they're struggling. They're doing it because they live for it and if it wasn't for classes, they'd never stop working on their game.

Granted, they turn out good stuff, but their health suffers.

 

[Teriyaki]

I'm pretty sure you should be over the 10/hr rate by now anyway. ;P

In "California" dollars, that would still be < 10/hr

 

[Karma Kramer]

People think I'm an idiot (I'm the guy mentioned in the thread title).

You may as well join in the fun, but I think things are settling down now. :lol

Oh okay.

Spoiler

You're a fucking idiot


Wait that was fun.


Well good luck. Adios

 

[XiaNaphryz]

Wow, it's like you're ready to judge the dedication of a person because they work really hard through the day and night.

Seriously, there are students that are there day and night to make the most spectacular games. Imagine making a full fledge somewhat open world game in 9 months with 10 people.

And imagine the same result where the team DIDN'T have to work all day and night.

Dedication and the willingness to work day and night is admirable and all, but in the long run leads to burnout and increased possibility of mistakes and more work for fixing.

Proper time management and scheduling can go a long way for any size project, and can provide a good learning experience as well.

 

[Oldschoolgamer]

Wow, it's like you're ready to judge the dedication of a person because they work really hard through the day and night.

Seriously, there are students that are there day and night to make the most spectacular games. Imagine making a full fledge somewhat open world game in 9 months with 10 people.

Dedication doesn't matter when it comes to your brain and how it functions. Your body needs rest in order to be more productive. I know about staying up at night working constantly on my editing skills, only to go to sleep, wake up, and notice something I should have right off of the bat. You are at your highest when you eat right and sleep well, even if you are an adrenaline junky that likes being on the edge to get things done.

Those guys get weeded out real early.

I know a lot of dropouts that came straight from highschool. They have no idea how hard are these kinds of schools.

It's not just these types of schools. I'm going to an AI school now and the same people failing out of it are the same ones that dropped out of my "regular" school. The class times are bananas though. When summer quarter starts I have days where its like I'm getting up going to work. Thankfully I have that experience from working an actual job and school beforehand. It will be a shock for all that aren't ready.

 

[Mercutio]

And imagine the same result where the team DIDN'T have to work all day and night.

Dedication and the willingness to work day and night is admirable and all, but in the long run leads to burnout and increased possibility of mistakes and more work for fixing.

Proper time management and scheduling can go a long way for any size project, and can provide a good learning experience as well.

Hmm, I think you just won my heart.

 

[Basch]

I know, right? Nuts. The hilarious thing is that they don't realize how massively unproductive you are if you don't sleep and work that much. Time to decompress and think things through makes good designs great. 1 well rested hour is worth 4 tired and crazy hours, in rough math. YMMV.

New goal! Quit procrastinating. :lol I full heartedly agree with this statement. I find I do better working on projects when I get a good night's sleep. Don't get me wrong. I work efficiently and sometimes more than expected, but you can do all of that without sacrificing hours of sleep. Though I do love to put on bells and whistles on my projects with any free time. I still love those pages I designed back when I was in High School for the monthly "newspaper."

By the way, a little off topic, but No Country is better than TWBB! Carry on.

 

[Sqorgar]

Again, this is from a producer's perspective, so it's going to look like a checklist, but that's not how we actually try and get the information in the interview. Well, mediocre producers might just go through a standard checklist each time, but they're probably not good personnel managers anyway

You want to talk to the applicant and engage in real conversation, get a sense of who they are, their long term goals, their creativity, what they think they can bring to the table, etc etc. It's up to us to evaluate what we hear and how it matches with what we're looking for. When you get a bunch of applicants for a position with similar backgrounds and work experience, you have to consider a wide range of factors to try and make the best decision. But by no means do you approach the process like a factory line and make an obvious show of it. Ultimately, staffing the team and keeping the project on track falls to the production staff, so there has to be some structure and process to hires to make it easier and beneficial to the team.

I don't think you understood me. I didn't take offense at it being a checklist. I took offense at the things that you were checking. If you are looking for the wrong thing, it doesn't matter how you look for it.

Think of it from the business side. The company will be making a heavy investment if they hire you and wants to do everything it can to ensure they will a good return.

It's more like buying stock.

Exactly my point. They don't hire people. They invest in things. Sometimes, you should hire the douche bag. That's something the game industry never understood. That sometimes, people have good reasons for being unreasonable. Not all the time, of course. But certainly more often than none of the time.

 

[Team Klimt]

make a portfolio, and try to sneak in as a tester....

Yep. In this industry, this is the way to get your foot in the door. I have seen it countless times. Start testing at a publisher, try to move to a developer, and more up from tester into production once you are at the developer. Don't slack off, do your job well, show enthusiasm, and you can make it. If you want it don't give up.

 

[Iaido Sword]

Not even that. They aren't working 18 hour days because they're struggling. They're doing it because they live for it and if it wasn't for classes, they'd never stop working on their game.

Granted, they turn out good stuff, but their health suffers.

I've witnessed a lot of these highschool kids. Really hard to say they have the drive to be game developers. All I saw were kids who just thought it'd be cool and easy to get into the game industry.

They'll take a break, make some money, and they'll get back at it after being a bit more serious. A lot of students I know have done that. The ones who never come back never had the drive.

And imagine the same result where the team DIDN'T have to work all day and night.

Dedication and the willingness to work day and night is admirable and all, but in the long run leads to burnout and increased possibility of mistakes and more work for fixing.

Proper time management and scheduling can go a long way for any size project, and can provide a good learning experience as well.

They had to because they needed to meet a deadline.

Meeting deadline is important in a gaming industry, is it not? Well, unless you're working for Blizzard.

I'm quite certain that the industry people in this thread knows that working under stress is known. I think it's great preparation. I'm certainly excited to live at school and work on my game 24/7.

 

[Mercutio]

By the way, a little off topic, but No Country is better than TWBB! Carry on.

I dunno. I thought so at first too, but after repeated viewing... and also, for some reason I'm double productive while listening to that sweet and weird Johnny Greenwood soundtrack.

 

[beat]

I'm quite certain that the industry people in this thread knows that working under stress is known.

Yes, and we know "Why Crunch Mode Doesn't Work". (or see also this poor guy.)

 

[XiaNaphryz]

I don't think you understood me. I didn't take offense at it being a checklist. I took offense at the things that you were checking. If you are looking for the wrong thing, it doesn't matter how you look for it.

That's why we do group interviews. The average applicant here goes through 4 or 5 separate interviews with various groups of 2 or 3 people. Each interviewer will have their own criteria they're looking for, and at the very end everyone pools their feedback together to make a decision.

Exactly my point. They don't hire people. They invest in things. Sometimes, you should hire the douche bag. That's something the game industry never understood. That sometimes, people have good reasons for being unreasonable. Not all the time, of course. But certainly more often than none of the time.

I never said we wouldn't hire someone with a less-than-stellar attitude or personality. If there's a vital need and someone's qualified, or if someone's very talented that people are willing to take a chance and overlook some of the other areas, we'll go ahead with that person. All I'm saying is that given 2 or 3 people with what looks to be equal ability and experience, we have to look at other factors to help make a decision.

 

[Iaido Sword]

Dedication doesn't matter when it comes to your brain and how it functions. Your body needs rest in order to be more productive. I know about staying up at night working constantly on my editing skills, only to go to sleep, wake up, and notice something I should have right off of the bat. You are at your highest when you eat right and sleep well, even if you are an adrenaline junky that likes being on the edge to get things done.

It's not just these types of schools. I'm going to an AI school now and the same people failing out of it are the same ones that dropped out of my "regular" school. The class times are bananas though. When summer quarter starts I have days where its like I'm getting up going to work. Thankfully I have that experience from working an actual job and school beforehand. It will be a shock for all that aren't ready.

Oh yeah sleep is important, but when a deadline is there, the work has to be done. Even in the first semester with some of my friends, they tell me how they stayed up working on some crazy painting. I manage my time pretty well and I get good sleep. I don't expect that to last long as I get into the latter half of this program. ~cry~

Experiencing hardship after highschool is definitely necessary to set up the mind for how tough these schools are. I don't think I would have made it going in straight from highschool. Boy, I do love it though. I think AI is a great place to learn.

 

[balohna]

I agree that it's better not to crunch all the time. I might have exaggerated earlier, I only stayed over night at school 3 times ever. I usually was able to go home, get rest, do other things, and still get by just fine. I even had a part time job the entire time. I didn't pull straight A's, but my work was more than competent and I never failed a class.

 

[GhaleonEB]

I'll admit I skimmed a few pages in the middle, but those aside, this thread has been remarkable reading. And this is the single funniest post in the entire thing:

Oh my people skills are great.

Right.

I don't work in the gaming industry, but I have an observation that may be applicable to you. I got a degree in finance (corporate finance emphasis). I was floored that the corporate finance world I dove into was *nothing* like what it was taught to me in college. I got the basic skill sets and the ability to learn fast, but otherwise the rules were very, very different.

I've found that's true of almost every discipline around me. Engineers, purchasers, logistics, designers (I work at Intel mind you - different kind of designers), they all are open about the gaping chasm between how the world is taught in school and how business actually operates.

I was pretty naive in school, but I like to think I was bright enough to open up my ears and listen to people who have real world experience in the industry I was trying to enter. If the roles were reversed, and some guy in school was trying to tell me what finance was really like in corporate America, I'd tell him to fuck off. That you have gotten a much more cordial response despite your impetuousness is something you should be glad about. There's tons of great advice in this thread; I learned a lot.

You are something else, man.

And no, the Gravity Hammer is not over-powered.

 

[MC Safety]

People think I'm an idiot (I'm the guy mentioned in the thread title).

You may as well join in the fun, but I think things are settling down now. :lol

Idiot isn't the word I'd use.

You're just misinformed and self-absorbed and can't admit when you're wrong, even when presented with evidence. And your reading comprehension is lacking...

 

[Iaido Sword]

Yes, and we know "Why Crunch Mode Doesn't Work". (or see also this poor guy.)

Extending deadlines isn't too much of an option unless you're pretty damn trusted. It costs a load of money to miss the deadline. I think if you are dedicated, you would sacrifice a few hours sleep to get your game through. You won't let down your own passion.

 

[Basch]

I dunno. I thought so at first too, but after repeated viewing... and also, for some reason I'm double productive while listening to that sweet and weird Johnny Greenwood soundtrack.

I should probably watch it again. I have it on Blu-Ray, so there shouldn't be any reason not to. Brilliant movie. I guess I'm just kind of upset There Will Be Blood stole the Oscar for Best Achievement in Cinematography from Roger Deakins for Assassination of Jesse James. Coincidentally, he also worked on No Country. Maybe that's why he lost. Split votes never work out in the end. :lol Truth be told, I didn't like No Country much my first viewing. I had the ending and characterizations down pat since the very beginning. Lucky guess. It took a second viewing for me to truly love it.

 

[XiaNaphryz]

Meeting deadline is important in a gaming industry, is it not? Well, unless you're working for Blizzard.

There's more than one way to meet a deadline. Just because you have a deadline doesn't mean you have to fill up all that available time to make it. Again, proper feature scoping and task estimation along with smart scheduling can help you make a deadline without the need for excessive extra work. Some of it will be needed at times, but it should be when necessary.

Now, you might have no choice if you have a set of rigid requirements and a hard deadline that doesn't give you the proper time to do the above. Still, good project management can help make things more manageable.

Crunch time happens in the industry, yes. But most of us prefer to work 40-50 hour weeks if we can help it with the occasional 1 or 2 week crunch period to hit a milestone deliverable than a mandatory 3-4 month stretch of 60+ hour weeks because of poor scheduling and planning.

 

[Iaido Sword]

I agree that it's better not to crunch all the time. I might have exaggerated earlier, I only stayed over night at school 3 times ever. I usually was able to go home, get rest, do other things, and still get by just fine. I even had a part time job the entire time. I didn't pull straight A's, but my work was more than competent and I never failed a class.

I'm pulling the straight A's and I hope I will continue. I would crunch if my A's are on the line.

Idiot isn't the word I'd use.

You're just misinformed and self-absorbed and can't admit when you're wrong, even when presented with evidence. And your reading comprehension is lacking...

I presented my factual evidence as well for some of my arguments. The argument about talent has no winner because no one can dive into people's minds and find this magic talent button. The argument about hiring depends on the area. My area is different from other people's area so the outlook on how people hire is different.

 

[Iaido Sword]

There's more than one way to meet a deadline. Just because you have a deadline doesn't mean you have to fill up all that available time to make it. Again, proper feature scoping and task estimation along with smart scheduling can help you make a deadline without the need for excessive extra work. Some of it will be needed at times, but it should be when necessary.

Now, you might have no choice if you have a set of rigid requirements and a hard deadline that doesn't give you the proper time to do the above. Still, good project management can help make things more manageable.

Crunch time happens in the industry, yes. But most of us prefer to work 40-50 hour weeks if we can help it with the occasional 1 or 2 week crunch period to hit a milestone deliverable than a mandatory 3-4 month stretch of 60+ hour weeks because of poor scheduling and planning.

Estimations can be off. How many recent games have seen delays? Those delays add up costs.

Now the subject was about the students at my school doing the crunch. I spoke about my friend who won the IGF award and how he had to crunch it for a week. A week of crunch time is nothing to fret over.

 

[MC Safety]

I presented my factual evidence as well for some of my arguments. The argument about talent has no winner because no one can dive into people's minds and find this magic talent button. The argument about hiring depends on the area. My area is different from other people's area so the outlook on how people hire is different.

I was referring directly to your "advice," but will certainly suggest you are dull-witted to assume you know more (or better) than people who actually make games.

And, to be honest, it was fairly obvious what your response would be.

 

[balohna]

I'm pulling the straight A's and I hope I will continue. I would crunch if my A's are on the line.

I presented my factual evidence as well for some of my arguments. The argument about talent has no winner because no one can dive into people's minds and find this magic talent button. The argument about hiring depends on the area. My area is different from other people's area so the outlook on how people hire is different.

Nobody's going to look at your grades, but I guess a perfect GPA is one more thing to brag about.

I was able to go to school full time, work 20 hours a week at a part time job, and I had an hour and a half commute, so if I was obsessed with grades I probably would have ended up messing up somewhere along the line.

Good for you though, it's not an easy thing to pull off.

EDIT: Also, I went to AI fresh out of high school.

 

[XiaNaphryz]

Extending deadlines isn't too much of an option unless you're pretty damn trusted. It costs a load of money to miss the deadline. I think if you are dedicated, you would sacrifice a few hours sleep to get your game through. You won't let down your own passion.

Why do you insist on thinking that extending a deadline is the only way to deal with this sort of situation? The game development cycle is all about re-evaluation and compromises. As the project progresses, if it becomes apparent there's no way future deadlines will be made due to the amount of work there is, and there's no extra budget to throw in more resources, you have to start cutting back scope. You can't go too far with this or the quality of the game will take too great a hit, but it has to be done if you want to finish the game on time and within budget. When this step happens too late is when projects usually go awry and the dreaded long-term crunch period occurs.

Just having your dev team crunch to make a deadline without reevaluating what else could be done can cost even more money in the long run if future milestones get affected, too much overtime gets on the budget, general lost productivity hits due to fatigue, and even more potential long term hits given the high turnover rate the industry already has.

Estimations can be off. How many recent games have seen delays? Those delays add up costs.

Which is why you pad/adjust estimates appropriately once you get a good baseline for a particular person's estimate figures. Again, Production 101.

Again, there's nothing wrong with crunching given the right circumstances, and sometimes you have no choice. But doing it without evaluating viable alternatives first (which will help determine if you have no choice or not) regardless of how long the crunch period will be isn't a good idea in the long run. And being forced to crunch when that situation could have been prevented earlier is the worst.

 

[Vustadumas]

Please stop twisting the question I asked. If a generalist can perform modeling at same quality of a specialist, who would you hire? There are generalists that are being trained to be that good. Companies rather have someone who can do various things than pay one specialist. Specialists are usually never in-house and are contracted out. A generalist will find jobs easier.

I've been a specialist for about 8 years now. It's served me quite well. Sure, I can model, but animation is where my heart is. And a specialist will 90% of the time get the job over someone that considers themselves a "generalist". I seriously can't believe that anyone would tell you that becoming a generalist is a good idea. Like someone else said, your school throws all these classes at you, so that you find out what you're good at. VFS is a good school (if that's where you are at). I work with a few people that went there actually. Good peeps, and guess what?! They're specialists =)

A company wants quality and quick turn around. 2 specialists will do just that.

And don't limit yourself to studios near your city. The world is a big place, and things are done differently at each one. You've gotta open up, and listen.

 

[Raistlin]

People think I'm an idiot (I'm the guy mentioned in the thread title).

You may as well join in the fun, but I think things are settling down now. :lol

:lol

 

[Argyle]

Again, there's nothing wrong with crunching given the right circumstances, and sometimes you have no choice. But doing it without evaluating viable alternatives first (which will help determine if you have no choice or not) regardless of how long the crunch period will be isn't a good idea in the long run. And being forced to crunch when that situation could have been prevented earlier is the worst.

QFMFT...

Seriously, I've worked a shitload of crunch on games that hardly deserved it in order to make deadlines - the "crunch is normal so we should get used to crunch in school" mentality is cute but it doesn't hold up well in the real world.

 

[kamikaze]

I've found that's true of almost every discipline around me. Engineers, purchasers, logistics, designers (I work at Intel mind you - different kind of designers), they all are open about the gaping chasm between how the world is taught in school and how business actually operates.

but but but industry leaders!!!

my 2 cents for Iaido, it's good that you're learning from people in the industry (i'd just call them professionals, though) and it's good that you know some people who work in the industry, too. it's natural that you value their insights/perspectives. just keep in mind that there are many other developers (some of them who have posted in this thread) with different insights/perspectives that could be helpful to you down the line, too.

 

[Narag]

People think I'm an idiot (I'm the guy mentioned in the thread title).

You may as well join in the fun, but I think things are settling down now. :lol

Who Posted? 
Total Posts: 682 
User Name Posts 
Iaido Sword  79 
Mercutio  35 
XiaNaphryz  32 
element  30 
balohna  23 
Laeth  22 
Zoe  19 
Torquill  15 
Althane  14

Wow, dude.

 

[speedpop]

I'm pulling the straight A's and I hope I will continue. I would crunch if my A's are on the line.

Grades mean nothing, no matter what field of occupation you are entering in. Any poor schmuck can ace shit on paper, but what happens when you are thrust into the limelight when it's time to get the hands dirty? Are you constantly showing off your papers and reminding people you were the King and Queen of your school?

Experience goes a long way but it's inspiration that seperates the mediocre apart from the brilliant. For all we know you could be compared to the sound of a muted fart.

 

[element]

Again, Production 101.

that is production 98 actually

 

[XiaNaphryz]

but but but industry leaders!!!

my 2 cents for Iaido, it's good that you're learning from people in the industry (i'd just call them professionals, though) and it's good that you know some people who work in the industry, too. it's natural that you value their insights/perspectives. just keep in mind that there are many other developers (some of them who have posted in this thread) with different insights/perspectives that could be helpful to you down the line, too.

Heh, how many times has this been repeated in the thread already?

I'm done with the thread for now, heading to bed. See ya at work. ;P

 

[Sqorgar]

All I'm saying is that given 2 or 3 people with what looks to be equal ability and experience, we have to look at other factors to help make a decision.

How similar is your hiring process compared to the typical one:

1. People see a job posting on your website or through gamesutra or whaterver and contacts your HR department with a resume and cover letter.

2. If their resumes / cover letters meet a specific criteria, the HR passes it on to a producer, who then applies additional criteria. If all is met, the applicant is then contacted by email.

3. You give them some sort of initial test, before the interview process really begins. Usually a programming test to see if they can make a linked list and a few brain teasers of questionable worth and virtue just to keep them on their toes.

4. Should they pass this test, they are given a phone interview. This phone interview is done by one person, either the producer or HR person. During the interview, the applicant will be asked a few set questions of questionable worth and virtue.

5. The applicant is then flown out for an in person interview, where they are subjected to possibly more tests and several tribunals in which they are interviewed and judged by a jury of their superiors.

6. Should multiple subjects make it this far, they are then weighed on their pros and cons against each other and perhaps subjected to more tribunals or tests to accentuate these differences.

7. Finally, one stands victorious, having crushed the competition and being just slightly more desirable to the narrow judging criteria than anybody else.

Is this what your hiring process like?

 

[Teriyaki]

Why do you insist on thinking that extending a deadline is the only way to deal with this sort of situation? The game development cycle is all about re-evaluation and compromises. As the project progresses, if it becomes apparent there's no way future deadlines will be made due to the amount of work there is, and there's no extra budget to throw in more resources, you have to start cutting back scope. You can't go too far with this or the quality of the game will take too great a hit, but it has to be done if you want to finish the game on time and within budget. When this step happens too late is when projects usually go awry and the dreaded long-term crunch period occurs.

Just having your dev team crunch to make a deadline without reevaluating what else could be done can cost even more money in the long run if future milestones get affected, too much overtime gets on the budget, general lost productivity hits due to fatigue, and even more potential long term hits given the high turnover rate the industry already has.

This is an excellent post.

Extending deadlines isn't too much of an option unless you're pretty damn trusted. It costs a load of money to miss the deadline. I think if you are dedicated, you would sacrifice a few hours sleep to get your game through. You won't let down your own passion.

I really hope that that you eventually learn that it's not always about "you." Unless there's some mythical team with your type of passion and thought process, you're going to be really frustrated when they don't live up your standards.

 

[TrueReligion]

People think I'm an idiot (I'm the guy mentioned in the thread title).

You may as well join in the fun, but I think things are settling down now. :lol

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol at you.

what a bag of douches you are.

 

[dock]

David Braben slams games design degrees - "95% of video gaming degrees are simply not fit for purpose"

The worst thing that usually comes out of games degrees are the attitudes, as we're seeing right here in this thread.

 

[Iaido Sword]

Why do you insist on thinking that extending a deadline is the only way to deal with this sort of situation? The game development cycle is all about re-evaluation and compromises. As the project progresses, if it becomes apparent there's no way future deadlines will be made due to the amount of work there is, and there's no extra budget to throw in more resources, you have to start cutting back scope. You can't go too far with this or the quality of the game will take too great a hit, but it has to be done if you want to finish the game on time and within budget. When this step happens too late is when projects usually go awry and the dreaded long-term crunch period occurs.

Just having your dev team crunch to make a deadline without reevaluating what else could be done can cost even more money in the long run if future milestones get affected, too much overtime gets on the budget, general lost productivity hits due to fatigue, and even more potential long term hits given the high turnover rate the industry already has.

Which is why you pad/adjust estimates appropriately once you get a good baseline for a particular person's estimate figures. Again, Production 101.

Again, there's nothing wrong with crunching given the right circumstances, and sometimes you have no choice. But doing it without evaluating viable alternatives first (which will help determine if you have no choice or not) regardless of how long the crunch period will be isn't a good idea in the long run. And being forced to crunch when that situation could have been prevented earlier is the worst.

Mmm cutting back the scope, gamers don't like that. Too Human is already great ridiculed for cutting back coop. I heard Prototype is cutting multiplayer.

I'm not saying estimations are always wrong, but they can be off. For this gen, they certainly have been off quite a lot due to the jump to next gen.

You should take a look at the MGS4 documentaries. Kojima Productions never cut anything and Kojima crunched the team. It was all worth it. They're all tired but are proud of their work.

I've been a specialist for about 8 years now. It's served me quite well. Sure, I can model, but animation is where my heart is. And a specialist will 90% of the time get the job over someone that considers themselves a "generalist". I seriously can't believe that anyone would tell you that becoming a generalist is a good idea. Like someone else said, your school throws all these classes at you, so that you find out what you're good at. VFS is a good school (if that's where you are at). I work with a few people that went there actually. Good peeps, and guess what?! They're specialists =)

A company wants quality and quick turn around. 2 specialists will do just that.

And don't limit yourself to studios near your city. The world is a big place, and things are done differently at each one. You've gotta open up, and listen.

The EA guy told me the opposite. When a company needs a visual effects team, they will hire a studio. That studio is comprised of generalists because they can do any kind of job. If that studio needs to, they will hire specialists to work on particle effects or whatever is needed. Generalists have the job all the time while specialists are contracted from time to time. That's what he told me and he has major experience in his field.

I'm not limiting myself to my city, but all the companies are heading towards my city. My goal is actually set on Japan, but it may be a goal that is hard to achieve in the short run. It may not be worth it, but I have goals to go outside my city if necessary.

I mean, you have to admit that Vancouver is amazing for its game industry status. Have practically all the major developers in one place is something only California can brag about. We're the Hollywood North of the game industry... well, we are Hollywood North as well. :lol

 

[Teriyaki]

Is this what your hiring process like?

It's different everywhere, but there's another often overlooked element you're missing, which is: How easy are you to hire? This encompasses a wide variety of non-skill related stuff from work visas, cost of relocation, salary demands, availability, etc.

This needs to be evaluated from your side as well. For example, if they won't offer you what you're asking, you need to factor that into whether you accept or not.

 

[Vustadumas]

He's probably just some 19 y/o know it all who's really ignorant on how the world works. Accredited art schools have been a scam since their inception, you basically pay them for what you want to hear, then you get into the real world and find out you wasted your time and money when you could have been doing it in your underpants in your room.

The only thing I truly gained from school... are my friends. Each and every one of them are in the industry. Hell, I work with some of them right now. I learned more from my classmates than any of my instructors, and some of them were "in the industry" as well.

School isn't a long interviewing process, Iaido :lol It's there to guide you, that's all. Don't buy so blindly into what your instructors tell you. You should have them hop on here and we can get this whole mess straightened out :lol

 

[platypotamus]

You should take a look at the MGS4 documentaries. Kojima Productions never cut anything and Kojima crunched the team. It was all worth it. They're all tired but are proud of their work.

There are no words

 

[Argyle]

You should take a look at the MGS4 documentaries. Kojima Productions never cut anything and Kojima crunched the team. It was all worth it. They're all tired but are proud of their work.

Holy shit! :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

 

[Iaido Sword]

Grades mean nothing, no matter what field of occupation you are entering in. Any poor schmuck can ace shit on paper, but what happens when you are thrust into the limelight when it's time to get the hands dirty? Are you constantly showing off your papers and reminding people you were the King and Queen of your school?

Experience goes a long way but it's inspiration that seperates the mediocre apart from the brilliant. For all we know you could be compared to the sound of a muted fart.

I posted quite a bit ago that grads got the interview because of their GPA. The companies took initiative to find the top students and make sure they are secured.

And no, you can't ace shit in my school. It isn't some University where you can BS your way through. They work you real hard.

David Braben slams games design degrees - "95% of video gaming degrees are simply not fit for purpose"

The worst thing that usually comes out of games degrees are the attitudes, as we're seeing right here in this thread.

I took this out of that article.

"95% of video gaming degrees are simply not fit for purpose," Braben told the BBC. "Without some sort of common standard, like Skillset accreditation, these degrees are a waste of time for all concerned."

The standards are set up by the local companies that work with the school, so where I'm at is not a waste of time.

There are no words

There are many people who would disagree with you.

People in the industry should look at the methods of how other developers make games. MGS4 documentaries provide a great inside on how things work at Kojima Productions. The industry should pay attention to Blizzard's developer panels at the WWI. These are the best developers in the world and to mock the insight is just being ignorant.

The only thing I truly gained from school... are my friends. Each and every one of them are in the industry. Hell, I work with some of them right now. I learned more from my classmates than any of my instructors, and some of them were "in the industry" as well.

School isn't a long interviewing process, Iaido :lol It's there to guide you, that's all. Don't buy so blindly into what your instructors tell you. You should have them hop on here and we can get this whole mess straightened out :lol

Networking is drilled into every student at AI. You don't have to tell me how important it is to find future competent team players. Knowing the instructors is important too.

Your school may not be what my school is, so let's just leave it at that since you clearly don't goto my school.

 

[element]

The EA guy told me the opposite. When a company needs a visual effects team, they will hire a studio. That studio is comprised of generalists because they can do any kind of job. If that studio needs to, they will hire specialists to work on particle effects or whatever is needed. Generalists have the job all the time while specialists are contracted from time to time. That's what he told me and he has major experience in his field.

That EA is full of shit. Go to https://jobs.ea.com and look at the jobs. They even have a column called SPECIALTY. You don't see jobs for 'artist', you see jobs for rigger, character animator, environment artist, character artist.

Lets just take some jobs from the site:
World/Environment Modeler
Character Animator
Interface Designer
Technical Artist

Those seem pretty specific to me.

My goal is actually set on Japan, but it may be a goal that is hard to achieve in the short run.

That is difficult for anyone. Better to have your eyes set on China or Korea then Japan.

Mmm cutting back the scope, gamers don't like that. Too Human is already great ridiculed for cutting back coop. I heard Prototype is cutting multiplayer.

OMG! You just don't get it. Gamers would be even more pissed if all the features in the game sucked because no one had time to polish them.

Have practically all the major developers in one place is something only California can brag about.

ummm, Seattle...Vancouver is only where it is because of EAC and all the companies that have been started by former EAC employees.

 

[Argyle]

There are many people who would disagree with you.

None of them work in the industry, though.

People in the industry should look at the methods of how other developers make games. MGS4 documentaries provide a great inside on how things work at Kojima Productions. The industry should pay attention to Blizzard's developer panels at the WWI. These are the best developers in the world and to mock the insight is just being ignorant.

Do you really believe that KojiPro or Blizzard never cut features?

Just because you never heard the game was going to have it doesn't mean it didn't get cut at some point.

That EA is full of shit. Go to https://jobs.ea.com and look at the jobs. They even have a column called SPECIALTY. You don't see jobs for 'artist', you see jobs for rigger, character animator, environment artist, character artist.

Lets just take some jobs from the site:
World/Environment Modeler
Character Animator
Interface Designer
Technical Artist

Those seem pretty specific to me.

This man speaks the truth.