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the Oct 7th Nintendo Conference (some small info)
- Thread starter king zell
- Start date
Smiles and Cries
Member
focus on DS? does this mean less games for PSP on no games for PSP?
boutrosinit
Street Fighter IV World Champion
PSP is in quite a mess right now. Some of Sony's biggest/most important partners don't even have enough PSP kits to test their 8 player modes.
It's *a joke*
It's *a joke*
Chittagong
Gold Member
boutrosinit said:
there has been lots of talk about DS being a reactive announcement to PSP, but considering the state things are in and recent news of development starting right before E3 2003, it seems that PSP is a reactionary announcement for Sony to secure a place in the portable space. It's almost as if they would have been developing the successor to MD for portable use and then just decided to build something around it hastily.
Smiles and Cries
Member
are you guys serious? PSP is really in that bad a spot?
DS was suppose to be a Nintendo experiment (AKA not GBA NEXT)
what was that thing about only 10% of people would like it... Seems like that is changing
DS was suppose to be a Nintendo experiment (AKA not GBA NEXT)
what was that thing about only 10% of people would like it... Seems like that is changing
TheGreenGiant
Banned
naz said:
nah.. its not that bad but its pretty precarious atm. I'm not anti-PSP or anything although it can be easily construed so (because of my pro-Nintendo leanings .. but then I also am pro PS2). The PSP just has that many more what ifs and unknowns at this late stage; that makes people on the board, rightly question its worth. (See the PSP sticky.. to lazy to type/justify)
Ultimately, time will tell.
Chittagong
Gold Member
naz said:
Just to be clear of my position, I have two DSs and around ten games in preorder and are hyped up as hell about it. I'll also get a PSP no matter how it goes.
That said, DS is not a very long-term product, either. I think that Nintendo is quite honestly surprised of the positivity towards it. I mean, how do they think they are they going to follow the backwards compatibility tradition they have in the portables with that thing? It's somehow a Game Boy Gaiden, and it will be interesting to see how Nintendo follows up the possible success.
From all I can gather - I'm waiting for dev insight from Japan - yes, business-wise PSP is a mess.
The DS is more innovative than the PSP.
The DS will sell more units than the PSP.
The DS will have better long term third party support than the PSP.
Third party developers do not want another handheld/home console monopoly.
Third party developers do not want another 1980s Nintendo.
Third party developers will quietly sabotage the success of the PSP.
The DS will sell more units than the PSP.
The DS will have better long term third party support than the PSP.
Third party developers do not want another handheld/home console monopoly.
Third party developers do not want another 1980s Nintendo.
Third party developers will quietly sabotage the success of the PSP.
TheGreenGiant
Banned
Leviathan said:
you don't know that.
Smiles and Cries
Member
Leviathan said:
this contradicts
if devs do not want a handheld monopoly they would help the PSP
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
Chance of that holding any truth fell apart when Walkman division revealed HiMD only couple of months after the PSP announcement
In the 1980s Nintendo dominated both the home and portable console industry.
Sony presently dominates the home console industry.
Nintendo still dominates the portable console industry.
Sony wants to dominate the portable console industry.
Third party developers will prevent Sony from dominating the portable console industry.
Third party developers do not want another 1980s Nintendo.
Sony presently dominates the home console industry.
Nintendo still dominates the portable console industry.
Sony wants to dominate the portable console industry.
Third party developers will prevent Sony from dominating the portable console industry.
Third party developers do not want another 1980s Nintendo.
Smiles and Cries
Member
Leviathan said:
Oh okay I understand you are saying since PS3 will keep Sony #1
They can't become #1 in the portables market because this will be another 1980's Nintendo
Portable console monopoly = Nintendo.
Home console monopoly and portable console monopoly = 1980s Nintendo.
Sony wants to become a home console monopoly and a portable console monopoly.
Third party developers do not want another 1980s Nintendo.
The GBA2 will further cement Nintendo's dominance in the portable console industry.
Third party developers will quietly sabotage the success of the PSP.
The PSP will become the "3DO of handhelds".
Home console monopoly and portable console monopoly = 1980s Nintendo.
Sony wants to become a home console monopoly and a portable console monopoly.
Third party developers do not want another 1980s Nintendo.
The GBA2 will further cement Nintendo's dominance in the portable console industry.
Third party developers will quietly sabotage the success of the PSP.
The PSP will become the "3DO of handhelds".
Chittagong
Gold Member
I think the first post is attempting to derail this PSP thread.
psycho_snake
I went to WAGs boutique and all I got was a sniff
Personally, I think the PSP will succeed and not because its better, but the sony brand is too strong.
ImNotLikeThem
Member
first, I can see what he's saying, and I can agree. No one wants anyone to have a monopoly in both markets, as it leads to bad things. but back on topic,
does that mean development hadn't even started, or that no one outside the development team new about it?
Leviathan, I think you're associating "dominating" with "monopoly" just a bit too much. They don't always go hand-in-hand.
For instance, taking your Sony example, they presently dominate the console market, but they're far from a monopoly. While Sony has a definite leg-up on the competitors, there is still ample opportunity for Nintendo & MicroSoft to turn a profit, gain marketshare, and well, succeed. Sony dominating definitely limits the potential success that these two could have (at least, for this generation), but it doesn't destroy their chances completely...
Nintendo in the handheld market, on the other hand, does pretty much just that. Every competitor that has stood toe-to-toe with Nintendo has failed: Game Gear, Neo-Geo Pocket Color, Wonderswan Color, GP32, N-Gage (give it time...), Lynx, and so on. The Gameboy line is such a built-in brand name that kids, parents, etc just naturally associate handheld gaming with Gameboy/Nintendo -- leaving competitors dead on arrival. This is much, much closer to a monopoly than anything we've seen in the console ring since the 80's.
Now, it could very well be argued that it's like this because there hasn't been a viable competitor that could stand toe-to-toe with Nintendo, which is pretty much true. But isn't that where Sony comes in?
Really, that's all the PSP is: viable competition. It's not a gateway to a monopoly, it's not a Nintendo death-knoll, ...nothing of that sort. It's simply somebody with the means finally standing up to the Gameboy brand, and it's about damn time it happened.
For instance, taking your Sony example, they presently dominate the console market, but they're far from a monopoly. While Sony has a definite leg-up on the competitors, there is still ample opportunity for Nintendo & MicroSoft to turn a profit, gain marketshare, and well, succeed. Sony dominating definitely limits the potential success that these two could have (at least, for this generation), but it doesn't destroy their chances completely...
Nintendo in the handheld market, on the other hand, does pretty much just that. Every competitor that has stood toe-to-toe with Nintendo has failed: Game Gear, Neo-Geo Pocket Color, Wonderswan Color, GP32, N-Gage (give it time...), Lynx, and so on. The Gameboy line is such a built-in brand name that kids, parents, etc just naturally associate handheld gaming with Gameboy/Nintendo -- leaving competitors dead on arrival. This is much, much closer to a monopoly than anything we've seen in the console ring since the 80's.
Now, it could very well be argued that it's like this because there hasn't been a viable competitor that could stand toe-to-toe with Nintendo, which is pretty much true. But isn't that where Sony comes in?
Really, that's all the PSP is: viable competition. It's not a gateway to a monopoly, it's not a Nintendo death-knoll, ...nothing of that sort. It's simply somebody with the means finally standing up to the Gameboy brand, and it's about damn time it happened.
To be fair, all that could be applied to GameBoy.Scott said:
Not entirely true... Game Gear was actually a remarkable success in the west with some healthy 3rd party support and a good 6 year run. NGPC also was performing beyond SNK's modest expectations... it was shut down due to the Aruze debacle, not market performance. WonderSwan had a fairly successful run too, so much so that Sony themselves took over distribution for Bandai and the platform had heavy JP 3rd party support... there's plenty of success stories in the handheld console sector.Scott said:
Duckhuntdog
Member
If the PSP can manage to get 5%+ marketshare, I would call that a success.
krypt0nian
Banned
Leviathan said:
You're not very good at this are you?
The PSP is infinitely more marketable, and the design allows for a much wider variety of games. The PSP will be more successful than the DS, at least in the Western markets. You just cannot replicate the more popular console franchise titles on the DS, and the DS looks to be the natural evolution of the GBA whereas the NDS stands out as a test machine.
Look at the disparity of titles announced for the DS and PSP. They appeal to different markets and it seems as if the PSP is shooting for the wider audience.
Look at the disparity of titles announced for the DS and PSP. They appeal to different markets and it seems as if the PSP is shooting for the wider audience.
BSLeviathan said:
1980s Nintendo = 98% of home market, 98% of portable market. 2000s sony = ~65% of home market. They (W.O.M.) hope for 20% of portable market
Sony wants to maintain a profitable position in both consoles and portables
Third Party developers want to make money without restrictive contracts (AHEM, 1980s-2000s NINTENDO)
The DS will be mauled by the more popular GBA and GBASP while fending off the PSP, and the GBA2 will further confuse things
Small Third-party handheld developers might tie themselves to the DS, but those with Console interests might tie themselves to PSP, therefore shifting the playing field.
This handheld war is gonna be interesting.
Yep, yep, yep. If Squarenix of all companies has little to no faith in the PSP, I'd say that portable is in a pretty bad position (and it looks like those in the know agree)
Hell, whatever chance they would have for a significant slice of the market (relative, yeah I know) is going to be taken away by moves such as this. It's a self fulfilled prophecy (one that Nintendo home console fans like myself have had to deal with before)
It may suck for some, but them's the breaks.
And when will the price and battery life be announced? It's getting pretty late in the game to be holding back inportant info like that IMHO.
Hell, whatever chance they would have for a significant slice of the market (relative, yeah I know) is going to be taken away by moves such as this. It's a self fulfilled prophecy (one that Nintendo home console fans like myself have had to deal with before)
It may suck for some, but them's the breaks.
And when will the price and battery life be announced? It's getting pretty late in the game to be holding back inportant info like that IMHO.
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
Vagabond said:
um.. how so? cause it has better graphics capabilities?
Duckhuntdog said:
If that were applied to Microsoft's console business...then I would agree. HAR HAR!
Anyways...someone was talking about the PSP being an "answer" to the DS or visa versa, whatever. No, Sony (it had been known for a while now) has been working on making a portable. Nintendo DS (originally) was probably more of a reactionary thing to PSP, but before it was even called the DS, or refered to as "heterogenious goods" or the "3RD pillar" it was thought to be the next generation GameBoy. In fact Mr. Iwata said something about how they were working on it originally as the next GameBoy who's power would be at or above that of the PSP, but Mr. Yamauchi said that was crazy 'cos the cost of making that kind of technology portable plus battery issues wouldn't make it worth while. He told them (instead of going for more power) to go for something different, more innovation, built-in connectivity, more interactivity with the gameplay interface. Then the DS was born...no longer just a GameBoy "next", but instead the "3RD pillar". The great thing is that they slapped together the DS, got it's technology cheap enough to reach a more mass market price then PSP, got a better battery life out of it and gave it things that the PSP doesn't have...and BAM...it's launching before PSP does giving it some good lead time.
I think this was wise on Nintendo's part 'cos creating a "3RD pillar" allows for them to keep the GBA around longer as a budget handheld until the true next GameBoy hits. The DS is there, not as a stop gap, but as something different from the GameBoy line so that it can continue without being phased out too soon. By the time PSP hits any kind of stride the technology for portable chipsets, memory, screens & batteries will be good enough and (more importantly) cheap enough for the next GameBoy to be released against the PSP as a *true* competitor to it...not only that, but it'll most likely be better/cheaper/more profitable to boot.
Out of all the competitor's to the GameBoy line...just about all of them have had better graphics, specs or tech. Thing is, more powerful technology doesn't win portable gaming. People want a good battery life and a good price out of portable gaming. They may like to have console-esque graphics on a handheld, but will that make the masses stop buying consoles and go handheld only? Hell no...portable gaming will always be seen as secondary to home console gaming. That's why I think the higher-spec, higher priced & lower battery life of the PSP are mistakes...not to mention Sony's "aim" for the mainstream! Plus I think there will be some gripes about durrability (namely the screen getting scratched) as it won't be a toss-around product like Nintendo's GameBoy line is.
Don't get me wrong, I think PSP will end up being successful in it's own right, but I think the Nintendo DS will hold it off until the next GameBoy hits...and then it's big trouble for PSP!
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
Vagabond said:
and the DS doesnt? its got a d-pad. L/R buttons .. four face buttons. touch screen/which (using the thumb strap) can be used as a replacement for an analog stick, it has wireless capabilities, etc.
and while its graphic capabilities dont match those of the PSP.. they certainly dont hinder a developers ability to bring any type of genre to the machine.
ImNotLikeThem
Member
The ONLY difference with the PSP that the design would make for a "much wider variety" of games would be the extra analog control. But... you know i forget, the DS only has the built in microphone. Oh yeah, and the second screen that is also touch sensitive. Other than that lets see, 4 way dpad? PSP and DS. Diamond positioned 4 face buttons? PSP and DS. Left and Right side triggers? PSP and DS. Unless maybe you mean something else, or the fact that I'm forgetting that better graphics and a bigger screen MUST mean the PSP is going to have a wider selection of games.Vagabond said:
So all the new franchises that are announced for PSP, such as Metal Gear, Gran Turismo, or even a 'new' Tales RPG, that are all completely original are better than the "less popular" boring old games for the DS such as Metroid Hunters, Mario64 DS, or even Wario Ware. And Final Fantasy III. And Viewtiful Joe. And just about anything else popular at the moment, from Sports to action. I happen to LIKE the fact that what we've seen so far is not just shrunken version of the same game I could play sitting in front of a tv.Vagabond said:
Eh, I don't know any non-musicians that own a minidisk player, and most musicians are switching to laptops for practice/lesson recording. Perhaps I'm wrong, but it seems that Sony brand name doesn't sell, its quality products that Sony makes that sell, ie walkman, Playstation, PS2. Sony can't just slap there name on any piece of shit and sell it.psycho_snake said:
Using the touch screen for most analog games isn't practical 80% of the time. It's just WAY more conventional and developers have a handle on what they can and cannot do with the analog stick. It can also hold more media/data with UMD and Memory stick and RAM. It might be feasible to say that the PSP screen allows for a more comfortable gaming experience as well.
I had quite a typo in the enquoted selection. The PSP seems to be a leap from the GBA as the GBA was to the GBC. And there is quite a disparity between the PSP and DS versions of certain titles (Most notably the sports and Spiderman 2). While you or I may love to entertain the feeling of the handheld version not just being "Console version Jr.", which is more marketable and appealing to consumers?ImNotLikeThem said:
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
Vagabond said:
according to who? have you tried the PSP? have you tried using the thumbstrap on the DS touch screen.
from what i gather, the PSP analog stick doesnt tilt, it shifts up, down, left, right, etc.
using the thumb strap on the DS touch screen results in the same effect.
Vagabond said:
if developers dont have a handle on what they can and cannot do with a touch screen then they shouldnt be in this business. its not a difficult of a concept to grasp.
Vagabond said:
ok, so how again does this allow the PSP to have a "much wider variety of games." ?
having more detailed textures, larger FMV, higher quality sound does not give the machine an advantage in this aspect.
in fact, id say that because of the touch screen, the DS will be the machine with the larger variety of games.
im so baffled by your arguments, its one thing to say that the PSP is a more powerful machine.. has a nice screen, and is dead sexy to look at.. but to say that it will be capable of a larger virety of games is really pushing it.
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
Cruel Bastard Mario said:
and price.
This argument over which control interfaces better serve most games is pointless. Lacking an analog nub certainly hurts DS but it can still achieve similar results using touch interface,in fact sometimes it works better. FPS seems more suited to the DS setup than PSP for example... I'm actually a bit annoyed with Sony not having dual analogs on the thing. And there's already a few DS games (Balloon Trip, Pac-Pix, Wario Ware DS, etc) that couldn't really be faithfully replicted on PSP... though PSP could certianly do Mario 64 DS, and better at that. Both machines have advantages.
SolidSnakex
Member
Cruel Bastard Mario said:
Hasn't the past history of handhelds shown that the most succesful are the ones based off the most popular hardware ever (NES - GB, GBA - SNES)? Now you've got the PSP based off the PS2 which will end up being the most succesful console ever.
Actually I'd say DS is generally getting the more important 3rd party franchises so far (FF, DQ, Madden, etc), especially in terms of significant handheld franchises (Yu-Gi-Oh, Sonic, MMBN, etc)... there's plenty of significant brands appearing on both platforms, but I'd say DS has a clear edge so far.
SolidSnakex
Member
Graphically and gamewise they're all similar to each of those hardwares. It's what makes it even funnier now when people complain about how the PSP isn't any good because its just a portable version of the PS2, when it was once just fine for a portable to be just that (a portable version of a popular home console).