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[Sriram]

Can someone explain what the analogue thing on psp is please. As far as I know its just a flat surface that you just move about. But if its like this then it couldnt really have much travel on it and can be somewhat replicate on the ds touchscreen. Plus the touchscreen allows more movement and could potentially have some kind of thumb mounted stylus peripheral.

 

[kaching]

PSP is in quite a mess right now. Some of Sony's biggest/most important partners don't even have enough PSP kits to test their 8 player modes.

It's *a joke*

Product hasn't even been released on the market yet - do you think this is somehow unusual for pre-launch development? Neither NDS nor PSP are offering true wireless online gaming in launch software either because neither Nintendo nor Sony have fully informed developers how to do so yet. There are always issues like this in the run-up to launch and the early launch period of a new piece of game hardware.

Edit: BTW, congrats to the early posters in this thread for completely derailing zell's topic. As usual, can't be good news unless its bad news for someone else...

 

[jarrod]

Graphically and gamewise they're all similar to each of those hardwares.

GameBoy & NES? You're dreaming, hell people used to kid that GB was "4-bit".

It's what makes it even funnier now when people complain about how the PSP isn't any good because its just a portable version of the PS2, when it was once just fine for a portable to be just that (a portable version of a popular home console).

In terms of hardware sure, but in terms of software it's not really true. For the past decade console games on handhelds have taken a backseat to new properties designed around their specific capabilities.

 

[Renegade]

according to who? have you tried the PSP? have you tried using the thumbstrap on the DS touch screen.

from what i gather, the PSP analog stick doesnt tilt, it shifts up, down, left, right, etc.

using the thumb strap on the DS touch screen results in the same effect.

I've seen nor heard any hands on of the thumb strap. I only found a few pics of it on Sponng. I don't think that can really be used in an argument because noone knows how it works so far. It just slips over the thumb and gives resistance so that your thumb is gravitated towards the center of the touch screen? I'm not even entirely sure if it's practical.

if developers dont have a handle on what they can and cannot do with a touch screen then they shouldnt be in this business. its not a difficult of a concept to grasp.

The analog stick has been in consoles for 2-3 generations. It allows for easier ports consoles->handheld, since touch screen wasn't really implemented in any mass market console. Any control improvement heralded with consoles will now be implemented onto handhelds, while with the DS you'll have to adapt a different system of control. You'll have to rework the controls based around the touch screen.

ok, so how again does this allow the PSP to have a "much wider variety of games." ?

having more detailed textures, larger FMV, higher quality sound does not give the machine an advantage in this aspect.

in fact, id say that because of the touch screen, the DS will be the machine with the larger variety of games.

The same way the GBA has a wider pallate of games over the GBC. Technology.

I'd say that the large part of games that put the stylus to GOOD use would not be replicatable on PSP, but in many cases the touch screens uses may prove too out of line with many game genres to be a major gameplay implement in each and every genre.

 

[SolidSnakex]

In terms of hardware sure, but in terms of software it's not really true. For the past decade console games on handhelds have taken a backseat to new properties designed around their specific capabilities.

I think its in terms of software too. Look at the million sellers according to MB for the GBA:

http://www.the-magicbox.com/Chart-USPlatinum.shtml

The majority of those listed are ports of NES/SNES games. With the exception of Pokemon and games similar to it the most succesful handheld titles seem to be those based on existing popular console titles (through either ports or sequels).

 

[jarrod]

I think its in terms of software too. Look at the million sellers according to MB for the GBA:

http://www.the-magicbox.com/Chart-USPlatinum.shtml

The majority of those listed are ports of NES/SNES games. With the exception of Pokemon and games similar to it the most succesful handheld titles seem to be those based on existing popular console titles (through either ports or sequels).

Like I said, console rereleases (Mario Advance) take a backseat to new properties (pokemon). I'm not saying console games don't do well on handhelds (the NES Classic Line refutes that) but the top games that really advance the market are new ideas rather than console retreads. It goes back further than that even, with Tetris and Kirby really making their mark on GB.

 

[Sriram]

I've seen nor heard any hands on of the thumb strap. I only found a few pics of it on Sponng. I don't think that can really be used in an argument because noone knows how it works so far. It just slips over the thumb and gives resistance so that your thumb is gravitated towards the center of the touch screen? I'm not even entirely sure if it's practical.

I dont know what your talking about really, why would anyone want to attach their hand to the system. The thumbstrap is simply a short (~.5 inch) stylus with a strap that you slip onto your hand. For a game like ridge racer for example, i dont see how the psp will have much different control than the ds version. I assume the wheel snaps back to centre when you dont touch the touchscreen.

 

[SolidSnakex]

For a game like ridge racer for example, i dont see how the psp will have much different control than the ds version. I assume the wheel snaps back to centre when you dont touch the touchscreen.

The impressions of the stylus gameplay in RR don't seem to match that. The game had very negative impressions for its gameplay because of the touchscreen.

 

[Memles]

The impressions of the stylus gameplay in RR don't seem to match that. The game had very negative impressions for its gameplay because of the touchscreen.

Indeed. They made it so the harder to keep moving the stylus in one direction, you turn harder. It doesn't actually, you know, move the wheel, persay.

Idiotic of them.

 

[Sriram]

Oh well that sucks. But theoretically you could achieve somethingnear to analogue control if the touchscreen movement moved the wheel and snapped back to centre when you let go. Especially with the thumb stylus.

Btw, why is Nst so bad? Is it digipen students?

 

[neptunes]

Btw, why is Nst so bad? Is it digipen students?

graduates

 

[Memles]

Oh well that sucks. But theoretically you could achieve somethingnear to analogue control if the touchscreen movement moved the wheel and snapped back to centre when you let go. Especially with the thumb stylus.

It is a piss-poor use of it.

But I don't think you'd get analog control. I think you'd just get a wheel that you could turn as you wished. Would be more interesting that the bullshit method they have.

 

[Lemurnator]

Can someone please explain to me what Thumbstrap is?

 

[Deg]

Indeed. They made it so the harder to keep moving the stylus in one direction, you turn harder. It doesn't actually, you know, move the wheel, persay.

Idiotic of them.

Yeah you;re going to see many silly implementations aka e3 Hunters style. Why couldnt they just do a controllable bar on the screen for RR? RR just looks like a joke to me. Metroid Hunters looks awesome however. Probably NST's most important game as well.

Can someone please explain to me what Thumbstrap is?

A thumb thing attached to a strap. Its pointy so you can use on touch screen. Good for lots of direct finger usage as its more precise.

 

[Kon Tiki]

If the thumb strap were to work like an analog stick, it would require more than one point of pressure. Is the touch screen capable of that.

 

[Sriram]

Wait a second, isnt Metroid:Hunters in development at NST aswell? It seems to me that they are using touchscreen just because its there and is an *option* for control. I hope that they did the RRDS thing hastilly and will change it eventually like MPH did.

 

[Sriram]

If the thumb strap were to work like an analog stick, it would require more than one point of pressure. Is the touch screen capable of that.

Not necisaarily. When you touch the screen, that should be 'set' as the neutral position and movement from there would act like the tilt of a stick, and when you stop touching the screen it would act like a stick snapping back to the centre. It's simple really and a thumbstrap stylus would be awesome as it would remove the resistance that you get from using your fingers on a touchscreen.

 

[Kon Tiki]

Wait a second, isnt Metroid:Hunters in development at NST aswell? It seems to me that they are using touchscreen just because its there and is an *option* for control. I hope that they did the RRDS thing hastilly and will change it eventually like MPH did.

You can use the D-Pad.

 

[radioheadrule83]

NST made Mario Vs Donkey Kong, ixnay on the why is NST so badnay!

 

[snapty00]

NST made Mario Vs Donkey Kong, ixnay on the why is NST so badnay!

So you hate NST?

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Hasn't the past history of handhelds shown that the most succesful are the ones based off the most popular hardware ever (NES - GB, GBA - SNES)? Now you've got the PSP based off the PS2 which will end up being the most succesful console ever.

:lol :lol SSX never ceases to amaze...

 

[FitzOfRage]

Well the most successful handhelds have been based off of the most popular hardware ever, it just so happens that hardware is the Game Boy

 

[Particle Physicist]

I've seen nor heard any hands on of the thumb strap. I only found a few pics of it on Sponng. I don't think that can really be used in an argument because no one knows how it works so far. It just slips over the thumb and gives resistance so that your thumb is gravitated towards the center of the touch screen? I'm not even entirely sure if it's practical.

hi.. thats kinda the point.. you cant really comment on how well or poorly something will work when you havent even tried it. (first person metroid anyone?) ..

hell, how sure are you that the PSP implementation of an analog stick will work just as well as the console versions?

The analog stick has been in consoles for 2-3 generations. It allows for easier ports consoles->handheld, since touch screen wasn't really implemented in any mass market console. Any control improvement heralded with consoles will now be implemented onto handhelds, while with the DS you'll have to adapt a different system of control. You'll have to rework the controls based around the touch screen.

huh? okay, well, first of all, you dont even have to use the touch screen, but its there if developers want. and from what i recall, devs didnt have any trouble getting the analog stick to work properly when it was first introduced.. mario64 controlled wonderfully. nights?

The same way the GBA has a wider pallate of games over the GBC. Technology. .

what genres does the GBA have that the GBC never had? other than games that take advantage of 3d technology..... none. at least none that wouldnt have been possible on the GBC.

I'd say that the large part of games that put the stylus to GOOD use would not be replicatable on PSP, but in many cases the touch screens uses may prove too out of line with many game genres to be a major gameplay implement in each and every genre.

so then enlighten me please.. what genres wont be possible on the DS ?

and once again, no one said the touch screen had to be used in every game.

 

[Deleted member 1235]

NST made Mario Vs Donkey Kong, ixnay on the why is NST so badnay!

I think that is wildy incorrect use of gibberish.

what does ixnay mean? is it gibberish for nix?

I always thought gibberish meant you take the first letter off the start and stick it on the end and add ay.

ANYWAY

Touchscreen. Thats gotta rock. Can someone explain how the ridger-racer input works (or fails to?

 

[imastalker co.]

RR just looks like a joke to me. Metroid Hunters looks awesome however. Probably NST's most important game as well.

good thing they're letting you use traditional conttrols too.

and i'd imagine Metroid is more important to them than a port.

 

[Mejilan]

I think that is wildy incorrect use of gibberish.

what does ixnay mean? is it gibberish for nix?

I always thought gibberish meant you take the first letter off the start and stick it on the end and add ay.

ANYWAY

Touchscreen. Thats gotta rock. Can someone explain how the ridger-racer input works (or fails to?

It's pig latin. The ixnay style of talking is pig latin. Gibberish is nonsense-speak. Like, babies speak gibberish. Fools speak gibberish, etc. Pig latin follows a simple rule. Gibberish follows no rules because it's made up nonsense.

 

[Mejilan]

NST has had their fare share of hits and misses. Personally, I think their ration of hits to misses is lower than just about any other Nintendo team, and I think that's why they get a lot of flack sometimes. Still, they've done some amazing things in the past too. I was excited by the concept of Metroid Prime Hunters at E3, if not the execution. But seeing that 14 minute video from the Nintendo Gamer Summit was VERY encouraging and exciting.

 

[sc0la]

I think SSX is right. Since the DS is based off of the GBA with extra capabilities then it will be the most popular according to that logic.

 

[Scott]

To be fair, all that could be applied to GameBoy.

That portion of my post was just to illustrate that Sony doesn't have a "monopoly," despite how much they're currently dominating the console sector. Nintendo didn't come into the picture until my next paragraph.

Not entirely true... Game Gear was actually a remarkable success in the west with some healthy 3rd party support and a good 6 year run. NGPC also was performing beyond SNK's modest expectations... it was shut down due to the Aruze debacle, not market performance. WonderSwan had a fairly successful run too, so much so that Sony themselves took over distribution for Bandai and the platform had heavy JP 3rd party support... there's plenty of success stories in the handheld console sector.

Actually, all of it was entirely true, you're just assuming I was saying more than I actually was.

All I said was that everybody that has gone toe-to-toe with Nintendo has failed, not that they flopped. Basically, what I meant was that every competitor Nintendo has had in this sector have bailed out, failed, whatever the case may be. Sure, there's lots of reasons behind why, but the fact remains: Nintendo is the only one that has stuck around.

That's all I meant.

As for the "To be fair" portion, I never claimed Nintendo had a monopoly. If you read the last portion of my post about Nintendo, all I said was that the Gameboy Advance is the closest thing to a monopoly that we've seen in years. And I think it's justified, considering the only competitor for the GBA right now is the N-Gage, which has under 1% of the market... This is why I think Sony entering with the PSP is a good thing, as they'll be able to claim some of the market, and spur some much-needed competition in this arena for the first time in years.

Yep, yep, yep. If Squarenix of all companies has little to no faith in the PSP, I'd say that portable is in a pretty bad position (and it looks like those in the know agree)

If you want to know what the think of the platform, here you go:

In an interview with the Wall Street Journal, Square Enix's head of operational planning Sasaki Michihiro commented on his company's plans for PlayStation Portable, thereby giving the yet clearest hint Square Enix would eventuallly support Sony Computer Entertainment's new handheld platform. At first, Sasaki however voiced criticism by raising the question of whether PSP was a game console or a video walkman. He mentioned that currently he did not understand what Sony intends to do with the platform. That being said, Sasaki continued, his company does intend to support the platform, but still has some questions regarding the business model.

Source: http://www.rpgfan.com/news/2004/1460.html

That isn't "little faith" at all, it's just confusion about Sony's goals with the platform, which everybody (media, analysts, gamers, developers) seem to have. It's a very understandable stance.

 

[P90]

Hasn't the past history of handhelds shown that the most succesful are the ones based off the most popular hardware ever (NES - GB, GBA - SNES)? Now you've got the PSP based off the PS2 which will end up being the most succesful console ever.

The DS is based off of the N64 (30+ million) and has GBA (60+ million and selling briskly) compatiblity. So your logic guarantees that the DS will be sucessful, even more sucessful than PSP.

DS>>>PSP (DS sales 3x PSP sales) is my prediction.

 

[AniHawk]

Here's my two cents and a whole lotta rambling on the upcoming battle:

The handheld market has been controlled by Nintendo ever since its inception. Nintendo has had a hold on that market longer than any other company has dominated the console market. People think Game Boy when they think of handhelds.

The handheld market has turned into the most casual market out there. People buy the system 'cause it's a lot cheaper than the others (and so are the games usually), and only a couple games because they know they won't be playing the system a whole lot.

As far as the DS goes, if Nintendo can make someone make it go online, and advertise the hell out of Pictochat, the system will be a huge hit with the casual gaming market- and others who usually don't use video game systems (like say a parent might not want to get their kid the DS, but it has "AIM" [Pictochat] on it [or so the store employee describes ]- this would likely push towards a purchase). The system is not going to go over like the GBA SP and GBA did at $150, but it should sell pretty well. Nintendo games being $30 will be a potential plus.

With the PSP, I'm not sure what Sony's up to, but I think it's possible they're building drama and anticipation for the final details of the system. Build the thoughts in people's minds that the system's battery life will be short and the price will be near $300, and then reveal a $200 pricetag (the PSTwo helps me believe this is possible if Sony's willing to lose money), and a decent battery life. It would blow everyone away, haters damned, Sony is awesome, awesome is Sony, etc.

The only thing I wonder about Sony is if they know what they're doing in the handheld market. It's possible that they might come in, kick ass, and change everything around. If they go in treating it like the console market, they may be in for a rude awakening.

And my question for Nintendo is if they have a good backup plan. If the DS fails and the PSP comes out swinging, Nintendo will need to get something out real fast.

 

[jarrod]

That portion of my post was just to illustrate that Sony doesn't have a "monopoly," despite how much they're currently dominating the console sector. Nintendo didn't come into the picture until my next paragraph.

Sure, I was just pointing out how you switch in GameBoy for Sony and everything would still pretty much work.

Actually, all of it was entirely true, you're just assuming I was saying more than I actually was.

All I said was that everybody that has gone toe-to-toe with Nintendo has failed, not that they flopped. Basically, what I meant was that every competitor Nintendo has had in this sector have bailed out, failed, whatever the case may be. Sure, there's lots of reasons behind why, but the fact remains: Nintendo is the only one that has stuck around.

Yeah, I just wanted to point out that most haven't left due to market failure... there's definitely room in the market for more than just GameBoy.

As for the "To be fair" portion, I never claimed Nintendo had a monopoly. If you read the last portion of my post about Nintendo, all I said was that the Gameboy Advance is the closest thing to a monopoly that we've seen in years. And I think it's justified, considering the only competitor for the GBA right now is the N-Gage, which has under 1% of the market... This is why I think Sony entering with the PSP is a good thing, as they'll be able to claim some of the market, and spur some much-needed competition in this arena for the first time in years.

I agree with all that... in fact I'd say PSP is the first serious direct competition GameBoy's faced since the Game Gear in 1991. Though I'd also say handheld gaming consoles face more indirect competition from other mobile gaming markets too (cellphone, PPC, PDA, etc) at least compared to home consoles. Game Boy's never really been by itself.

 

[evilromero]

Wait a second, isnt Metroid:Hunters in development at NST aswell? It seems to me that they are using touchscreen just because its there and is an *option* for control. I hope that they did the RRDS thing hastilly and will change it eventually like MPH did.

WHAT? Did you even watch the conference video? Thanks to the touch screen the game even rivals PC FPSs. I showed that footage to my PC friends and they were convinced, like I was, that even consoles will never be able to touch the fluidity of the DS' FPS controls. Watching the Nintendo rep play was like watching someone play a PC fps. In fact, I'd say Hunters is the best use of the touch screen thus far. It'll revolutionize non-PC fps games.