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The Official Halo 3 Thread
- Thread starter GhaleonEB
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Domino Theory
Crystal Dynamics
EazyB said:Nice, I really thought it would be bumped back down after everyone got over Cold Storage but it looks like it won some folks over for a longer period.
Those TF2 games were a blast, sorry my internet went down. We should crash other games more often
Seriously, those games were so fucking epic.
Especially when we were all Engineers and had like.. 15 Sentries and Dispenser up with 20 Teleporters scattered in one area. :lol
BladedExpert
Member
fin said:
I see what you did there!
LunaticPuma
dresses business casual
Striker said:
I think they should put a bubble where the drainer now spawns and drainers where the bubbles spawn. That would help out a bit.
I've never seen a team camp that area but I've always been confused as to why that extra room is not blocked off. It serves no purpose at all. That said, I really enjoy default Foundry, you gotta be aware of where the other team may spawn (hint: don't stay back at either base) but other then that it's a really smart setup. I definitely wouldn't mind some additional map configurations but until they can get the spawns ironed out, I won't be upset if the weighting is low.Striker said:
Captain Blood
Member
lol at the Geowars2 leaderboards race going on between all the halo kids
Edit: come get a taste of my King score
Edit: come get a taste of my King score
Domino Theory
Crystal Dynamics
EazyB said:
Beat your Waves and Evolved score.
spermatic cord
Member
Default Foundry is ugly and terrible and should be taken out of Ranked Team Slayer. Same for Last Resort because it's not even a slayer map.
Revengeance
Member
Waves is ridiculous. Finally got that 8 waves, no shooting achievement.Domino Theory said:Beat your Waves and Evolved score.
Talk to me when you beat my sequence score :lol
LunaticPuma
dresses business casual
spermatic cord said:
This man from the east is wise in the ways of matchmaking...
godhandiscen
There are millions of whiny 5-year olds on Earth, and I AM THEIR KING.
The spawn point system does not take into account Effective Area. According to the US manual of field combat, effective area is the area which is susceptible to agent (a player) attacks. The spawn system only checks to see if nobody is around, and if the weight ("safe value" determined by an algorithm) of the area is high enough, then you will spawn there. Sadly, this safe value is pointless when you have a sniper that can spot you from far away. Or when your team-mates need help in the other side of the map. Another problem I have found is that you might spawn right next to a person with a low shield and get a free kill. There are too many problems with the spawning algorithm of Bungie. It just doesn't feel right. However to check for all the details that would give you the perfect spawn point it would require about the power of a dedicated console to host the game. So yeah, a way to get around bad spawns is by implementing a better more complicated spawning algorithm that is run by a dedicated server. This won't happen with the limitations of Halo.GhaleonEB said:
BTW, Bungie has mentioned before that they calculate the weights by adding a unit every time someone from your team dies in that area, and that these units are erased over time. I personally don't agree with this system, but I bet there is more to it.
backflip10019
Member
godhandiscen said:
Dedicated server? What does that have to do with anything?
godhandiscen
There are millions of whiny 5-year olds on Earth, and I AM THEIR KING.
It runs a complex spawning algorithm that refreshes itself constantly and is smarter when assigning spawns. To put this processing load in one console which is also running the game would set a common denominator of processing power that is too low for all the other users. AKA, processing power in the other consoles would be wasted, while the host is the only one using with the heavy load. This is why its better to run this side tasks in a dedicated host.backflip10019 said:
godhandiscen said:
I'm sure there's a lot more to it.
There are definitely some holes in the spawning logic. There's never going to be a perfect system. A speeding Warthog on Rat's Nest is difficult to account for. When the player is incarnated, the area might be "safe" for a few seconds. But even if that player is well away from a Warthog that's just turned the corner of a long hallway, he's still going to be placed in the line of fire. There aren't too many ways to avoid that situation.
But to me it feels like the spawning logic just breaks down from time to time and randomly dumps players into dangerous or advantageous situations, as if no logic whatsoever has been applied. A few of us played a VIP match on Rat's Nest last night, and both VIP's were killed near the same time and both were spawned within steps of each other with full complements of defenders popping into existence. For a second, you could almost read the confusion through everyone's visors.
I can't say why those spawns happen. Maybe packets are being dropped. Maybe the code that drives the spawn logic is breaking down and players are simply being dumped into random spawn points. Whatever it is, I sure hope it gets fixed because it can be downright irritating.
godhandiscen said:
Haha, and you know this because... you've benchmarked such an algorithm against the processing power of a console?
I'm sorry, but the heuristics involved in calculating spawn points are nothing in comparison to the amount of computation required to calculate the physics simulation for a single crate in the game.
LunaticPuma
dresses business casual
Where are my AU2 details? The week is over half over.
backflip10019
Member
LunaticPuma said:
Uhh... coming in the Weekly Update that comes out Friday ... like Luke alluded to where they would be?
DeadFalling
Member
spermatic cord said:
I agree with this completely. I hate it more than any Halo, Halo 2, or Halo 3 map I have ever played. But hat's just me...
If you guys want to see a pretty close Team Doubles match:
http://www.gamevee.com/viewVideo/Halo_3/GeeVee/VERY_close_match__Team_Doubles/387286
Goto 8:30 if you don't watch the whole thing, that's where shit gets real. :lol
GhaleonEB said:
Do want.
Anyone else have any predictions for AU2?
Forged map hopper? It would be cool if we could recommend maps and variants for a "community hopper". Then the most played maps get into matchmaking. Kinda like Bungie favorates but for matchmaking.
I guessing map glitches are all going to be fixed. I had a game of VIP on Rats Nest this week and the VIP got behind the fence by the Rockets, rendering him unslayable.
Hopefully some networking code gets redone to make it a little more stable.
I'll agree that Default Foundry, like all Foundry maps, is ugly as sin. But it is a great slayer map, it's really fun and the battles are fluid and move all around the map. Then again the spawns can be really ball breaking at times and getting trapped in one of the bases can be a real hassle (for this I think they should open the doors in the hallway so the team can attack from both sides).spermatic cord said:
dun wry i'll b back were i blongDomino Theory said:Beat your Waves and Evolved score.
LunaticPuma
dresses business casual
urk said:Really! Why doesn't Bungie have some sort of vehicle to distribute such news?
Seems like too big of an announcement for weekly update material.
jerk
godhandiscen
There are millions of whiny 5-year olds on Earth, and I AM THEIR KING.
I don't know, its not like the refresh rate of the physics in the game is that fast. Also, once you get into Area of Effect you have to trace every possible ray coming from an agent.Falagard said:
Domino Theory
Crystal Dynamics
I think a good chunk of the AU2 will be consisting of the "Major changes to Halo 3 online" which can range from a lot of hefty things.
Other than that, I see mostly back-end stuff going in that they won't discuss (like they did with AU1) and a possible host history reset.
Other than that, I see mostly back-end stuff going in that they won't discuss (like they did with AU1) and a possible host history reset.
backflip10019
Member
I know that this has a tiny chance of happening, but I really wish Bungie would use Juices' request for a weekend hopper that he came up with a few pages back.
And as for AU2, a community-voted upon hopper would be awesome -- one that would allow you to play in various custom maps with randoms.
And as for AU2, a community-voted upon hopper would be awesome -- one that would allow you to play in various custom maps with randoms.
I think there may be changes to the community content aspect of things, both in Halo 3 and on bungie.net. Bungie said they were going to work on such at the end of last year, and Luke and Sketch said they were taking input during that time from the community. I'd love to that bear fruit, assuming they didn't ZBB it in favor of other, higher-priority issues.fin said:
backflip10019
Member
godhandiscen said:
You speak in such strange tongues...
EazyB said:
I think Foundry is decent for Slayer. I originally hated it, but it has an interesting dynamic. The spawn points are on either side of a wall and you can decide to try to meet the enemy at the wall, or go around wide to get to the back where the power weapons are.
I think players have created much better maps, and it flabbergasts me whey Bungie hasn't taken some of the community variations of Foundry and maybe other maps done in Forge and put them in a hopper to play.
D
Deleted member 21120
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah, the spawning system, from what I can tell, is pretty simple on some maps. I played a game on Avalanche, for example, where we were camping the enemy's base. There were players on my team inside the base and I was outside, underneath the man cannon, in a Scorpion tank. For ten minutes, I literally just looked left and waited for someone to spawn and then killed them, and then looked right and did the same thing. Apparently since my team was inside their base, they only had two spawn locations outside - one on the ridge leading up to the middle, and another on the opposite side against the cliff wall. That was it. I got an Invincible or whatever it is that you get after you get 25 kills without dying.urk said:
Times like that, you would think after the fifth time that someone spawned and instantly died, something should blink in the system and it would spawn them in the teleporter area or something.
I wish that we had saved films in Halo 2, because I don't ever remember having these types of spawn breakdowns in that game. Maybe we did, though? It just seems like the spawn system in Halo 3 is extremely simplified - if there is no enemy currently in this location, then it's safe to spawn there. In a perfect world, it would keep track of how long it's been since someone was killed in that location, how many people have been killed in that location when they've spawned, are there any vehicles on a trajectory towards that location, are there any enemies facing that direction... and so on.
I would love a Radar Jammer to be placed somewhere on that map. It would make campers unaware of where they are being jumped on.LunaticPuma said:
Like Construct, too, because there are two Power Drainers and no Jammer. That irritates me because they're basically the same item in terms of build. Hence that was their reasoning for not using the Flare and Radar Jammer. *rolls eyes*...
That would be great.fin said:
I personally think a whole new layout would be better.
godhandiscen
There are millions of whiny 5-year olds on Earth, and I AM THEIR KING.
Sorry, its just that right now I am doing AI research on combat simulations. I am helping these Mechanical Engineering kids to build a robot that can actually do ground combat. I joined the project kinda late and for the first month I had to read pages upon pages of the military field manual.backflip10019 said:
Cocopjojo said:
Similar thing happened to me on Standoff. It was the Heavies gametype and the other team got control of all of the Warthogs. Instead of being spawned inside one of the bases, it spawned us over and over again out in the open, completely defenseless, and our squad was ground into so much hamburger. Sailor said he stopped counting at 20 consecutive spawn deaths and I don't doubt he wasn't exaggerating because I think I was closing in on 10 myself before I spawned safely in the base.
We had two brand new players and one of them seemed somewhat shocked by it. There was literally nothing you could do but die almost instantly.
LunaticPuma
dresses business casual
Striker said:
I miss the radar jammer. It was awesome for objective games. Maybe AU2 will put it back in without the extra jump height? Flare was pretty much useless. It's rare to be able to use it without blinding yourself.
I wish I could post my "Spawnout" video here at work. Still cracks me up.
Edit:
Anyways, spawns. They're broken, no doubt about that. Standoff is laughably easy to spawn camp people in the warthog, on Avalanche the team will spawn right in front of my scorpion regardless of whether my team is in their base or not. On almost all of the smaller maps one is guaranteed to be jumped once or twice by a freshly spawned player appearing by their side. There's also many instances where you with spawn in the middle of a hail of grenades and vaporize as quickly as you appeared. But I have faith that their going to try to address it in AU2.
Edit:
Thanksbackflip10019 said:
Anyways, spawns. They're broken, no doubt about that. Standoff is laughably easy to spawn camp people in the warthog, on Avalanche the team will spawn right in front of my scorpion regardless of whether my team is in their base or not. On almost all of the smaller maps one is guaranteed to be jumped once or twice by a freshly spawned player appearing by their side. There's also many instances where you with spawn in the middle of a hail of grenades and vaporize as quickly as you appeared. But I have faith that their going to try to address it in AU2.
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