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[Xander51]

Is it bad though?

I really like the look of them, just wondering how bad they may be outside.

I mean, that's a pretty subjective thing. I think they're "okay" for isolation, but you'll definitely get sound from outside. And wind will definitely come in through the bass ports. They don't isolate as well as other headphones I own. I don't use them outside much for this reason, only in my house/coffee shops/etc.

They're expensive headphones, so if you really want to get them, I suggest ordering from a place with a good return policy and seeing for yourself!

 

[Nero's Neptune]

Hey guys im in the market for a new set of cans. I already own the Q701s and the hd598 and now I'm looking for a closed set. My budget is 200 and I'm looking at the M50x, V Modas M100 and the Custom one pros. where i live the v moda is the most expensive and the custom ones the cheapest, I cant try out any of them so any input is appreciated.

Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro 80 are on Amazon for like 203 right now. Such a fantastic headphone. Very well-rounded with strong bass, fantastic isolation, and a pretty large soundstage (certainly large for a closed headphone). It's one of the few bassy-heavy headphones that I've heard that has great mids, too.

They're basically in the same general sound signature as the M50s, but better in every way.

 

[TEJ]

Okay so I am now carefully considering sennheiser 598's but this pair caught my eye.

audio technica ath-msr7gm sonicpro over ear high resolution headphones.

They're not much more than the first pair I was thinking of. Which would be the better choice?

 

[SolarMystic]

Okay so I am now carefully considering sennheiser 598's but this pair caught my eye.

audio technica ath-msr7gm sonicpro over ear high resolution headphones.

They're not much more than the first pair I was thinking of. Which would be the better choice?

Do you need the isolation that an msr7 would provide as a closed back? If not, I would go with the open backed hd598.

 

[Antiwhippy]

Just got my CP100-M and god damn they are legit. They make the bass way stronger (not sure if i like the sound better just yet).

They're really comfy aren't they?

 

[HiResDes]

Okay so I am now carefully considering sennheiser 598's but this pair caught my eye.

audio technica ath-msr7gm sonicpro over ear high resolution headphones.

They're not much more than the first pair I was thinking of. Which would be the better choice?

Depends on what you like to listen to and how you intend to use them.

 

[SuperSah]

I mean, that's a pretty subjective thing. I think they're "okay" for isolation, but you'll definitely get sound from outside. And wind will definitely come in through the bass ports. They don't isolate as well as other headphones I own. I don't use them outside much for this reason, only in my house/coffee shops/etc.

They're expensive headphones, so if you really want to get them, I suggest ordering from a place with a good return policy and seeing for yourself!

Tried them inshore, love the design and nice, spacious sound.

Bought a pair.

 

[DagsJT]

Bought a Schiit Magni 2. After using my friends O2 amp, I much preferred that sound compared to my Vali and I believe the Magni and O2 are very similar.

 

[Ken Adams]

Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro 80 are on Amazon for like 203 right now. Such a fantastic headphone. Very well-rounded with strong bass, fantastic isolation, and a pretty large soundstage (certainly large for a closed headphone). It's one of the few bassy-heavy headphones that I've heard that has great mids, too.

They're basically in the same general sound signature as the M50s, but better in every way.

I should mention that I don’t have and amp just my Astro Mixamp, not sure if that’s enough to power the 770s. Thanks for the input look like a great set.

Any other opinions?

 

[e_i]

Audio Technica 50x for $100 plus $5 for shipping.

 

[Xander51]

Tried them inshore, love the design and nice, spacious sound.

Bought a pair.

Awesome! They do indeed have a great sound and fit to them, and a pretty solid build too.

 

[Nero's Neptune]

I should mention that I don’t have and amp just my Astro Mixamp, not sure if that’s enough to power the 770s. Thanks for the input look like a great set.

Any other opinions?

The Beyers are fantastically easy to drive, don't let the 80 ohm rating fool you. I run them out of my phone just fine.

 

[MegalonJJ]

My T5Ps came in. Will post more impressions later, but so far I'm VERY impressed.

Come on bro, post dem impressions...especially in comparison to the 770s.

Also, did you get the T5p or the T5pv1.2?

 

[Nero's Neptune]

I've put a fair amount of time on these T5Ps (Rev 1, I believe. They are an early model), so I'm confident enough to post some impressions.

The most noticeable thing right off the bat was the ridiculous soundstage. It has a huge presence, but nothing ever feels distant. It's like sitting with your jaw on the stage at a concert. Just absolutely in your face, huge, and front-projected.

Mids are superb. Very detailed, and the overall sound is edging more toward forward, which gives them a huge amount of energy. I think the CD900STs might have more detail, but they're a little more laid-back sounding. It's a different enough flavor for me to justifty keeping both.

Moving into the highs, again, it's a little more forward. Never ear shattering, just slightly elevated. This, too, gives a greater sense of energy. Acoustic guitars have a nice pluck to them, pianos have lovely sparkle, and harmonicas have nice body to them without being ear-shredding. (This was one thing I was afraid of, since Bob Dylan is like 40% of my music)

Bass is where things are kind of interesting to me. They have less than I expected. It extends low, and it's reasonably punchy (certainly punchy enough for me), but I was sorta expecting something close in quantity to the 770 Pros. They come in a bit shy of those, though. The plus side, is they're VERY quick, and again, extremely detailed. There are some muddled tracks I've heard even on the CD900STs where it's hard to follow a bass line if there's heavy bass drums, but here it's perfectly clean.

So overall, a very well-rounded pair of headphones, leaning toward quick and forward. Basically, they seem built from the ground up for rock, which completely suits my tastes.

Oh, and isolation is even better than the 770 Pros! Comfort isn't QUITE as nice, since the cups aren't as deep, and they don't use the velour pads, but still, very comfortable.

AND, they're absurdly easy to drive. I run them out of my phone from time to time, and they are marvelously well controlled, with plenty of headroom to raise the volume. There's some serious sorcery going on at Beyerdynamic's R&D labs to make a headphone that sounds THIS good without amping. If anyone is looking to jump into a proper high end setup, definitely read into these. You can save yourself hundreds of dollars that you would have spend on a high-end amp for any other headphone in it's price range.

In direct comparison to the 770 Pros, these have slightly less bass, but overall better controlled. Mids and highs are more forward, and soundstage is much bigger. Better isolation, but slightly worse comfort. Even easier to drive than the 770s. (!)

 

[DagsJT]

Yeah, I definitely need to replace my HD650's. Listening to music last night, mainly rap, and it's all just felt so relaxed, almost flat at times. Maybe the Magni will change it a bit but I might just go back and buy the X2's again.

 

[Antiwhippy]

I can actually see the hd600 being better for hip hop than the hd650. From what I've listened when I compared the 2 the vocals are more defined on the hd600 and not overly warmed by the mid bass that makes the rappers stand out.

 

[Tommy DJ]

Not trying to shit on you or your impression but that review suggests that you might have some high frequency hearing damage. It wouldn't surprise me considering that you seem to own the Sony CD900st or DT770. Its part of the reason why I hate headphones because the frequency responses on so many are so intentionally wonky compared to speakers, which is probably why so many people have premature hearing damage these days.

Like the Sony CD900st has the same void into sharp-ass peak like the Sennheiser HD800. And I know the Sennheiser HD800 will undoubtedly cause hearing damage if you're not especially careful as ~6khz peak is like 5-10dB higher than anything else it produces. It says a lot that the headphone was reportedly tuned by old ass Sennheiser executives that actually lived through the second world war.

 

[Antiwhippy]

What would constitute high frequency hearing damage?

My range is around 18 kHz.

 

[Tommy DJ]

High frequency hearing loss comes naturally with age. When I was younger I could definitely hear 20khz but I can only hear around 18khz as well.

But with enough acoustic trauma, you can definitely get hearing loss at specific frequency ranges. I think I've got some around 4-5khz now as the HD600's hot midrange doesn't bother me at all anymore when it used to only like a year ago.

Also, what I meant was hearing damage in general. Again, too many headphones have really wonky frequency responses that honestly can't be healthy with specific material. I dunno if Europe still does it but they used to ban specific headphones, like the Sony MDR-7520 from memory, because quite a few of them are literally health hazards.

 

[Antiwhippy]

Hearing damage is definitely an interesting thing to take note of when reading audio reviews. While I like tyll's work I disagree with some of his reviews when it comes to the treble region.

 

[Nero's Neptune]

I really can't imagine anyone thinking the CD900STs have spiked upper frequencies. I really can't, they're one of the most laid-back headphones I've ever heard.

Are you just listening at ungodly volume levels? It's absolute absurdity to me. You could sooner convince me that they're bass-heavy than say they're upper frequencies are too spiked.

 

[Antiwhippy]

Golden ears chart does show a pretty massive spike at the 4khz and 10khz region relative to the dip from 1khz on.

Kind of looks like your typical V shaped headphones.

http://en.goldenears.net/6993

 

[Nero's Neptune]

I'm always skeptical of frequency response graphs. It's a total mixed bag: some get pretty close to how I think a headphone sounds, others completely miss the mark. I don't think anybody who has heard the CD900STs would describe them as V-shaped. It's more like a reverse-V to my ears.

A really big questionable graph I've seen is Headroom's K601 graph. Looking at them you'd assume them to be nearly perfectly neutral, but actually listen to them and that couldn't be further from the truth.

Compared to Golden Ears' graph:

Which gives a completely different picture.

 

[ashbash159]

Posted this in my own thread last night but noone answered. Hopefully some of you can provide advice in here!

My mum broke my Astro A40s today when cleaning.

I'm just wondering what to replace them with.

I'm thinking of maybe getting some actual headphones rather than a gaming headset, since I never used my Astro A40s microphone and would like to know what better audio sounds like.

The thing is I would like headphones that work great on PC, PS4 and Xbox One.

I would like to know how regular headphones connect to the consoles. When using my Astro A40s I would plug them into the MixAmp and plug that into the consoles with the optical cable.

Would it be worth getting a better DAC or Amp? (I haven't ever looked into these.) My MixAmp has a little bit of a crackle, and makes noise when adjusting the volume.

There's quite a lot of recommendations out there for regular gaming headsets, but not so much for regular headphones being used with consoles and PC. I think I would like some really nice sounding headphones whilst still having them work on the consoles to watch Blu-ray movies, Netflix and play games.

My budget would be from £100 to £200 but if you can suggest ones that are a little more but worth it, please recommend those too.

P.S.: It would also be a bonus if these could connect to my Wii U. I haven't looked into that either.

 

[Tommy DJ]

That's because you're misinterpreting measurements. If you're skeptical of frequency response graphs, you better tell all of those folks in the loudspeaker-based audio industry that they've been doing it wrong for decades lol.

Headphone measurements are all adjusted with a target curve or, if they aren't adjusted with a target curve, they are impacted by the measuring apparatus they placed onto anyway.

So FR measurements are all wrong you say because they all measure differently. You'd be 1000% incorrect with that statement. All it means is that you cannot directly compare measurements from, say, "Tyll from Innerfidelity" with measurements done by "Goldenears" nor can you compare measurements from "Headroom" with measurements from "Superbestaudiofriends". You can, however, compare Tyll's HD600 measurements with his HD800 measurements because he's presumably using the exact same tools and methods in both cases.

You say the K601 doesn't really sound neutral and you might be correct. Compare that Golden Ears graph to one of their graphs of the Sennheiser HD600 that appears to be using the same target curve:

And I'd think most people would agree with those Sennheiser HD600 measurements from the bass hump to the relatively smooth (aka veiled) frequency response. You can probably use the Sennheiser HD600 as a reference when comparing them to the CD900st.

Also compare Headroom's K601 graph with their graph of the Sennheiser HD600:

We know pretty well that Sennheiser's channel matching and general consistency is the best in the industry so why are the two HD600 graphs different? Because the measuring apparatus and target curves are different. This, however, does not mean they are incorrect.

This is also ignoring the amount of smoothing is applied to the graph, the axis widths, headphone manufacturing consistency, etc etc. Since people seem to struggle with FR measurements, some manufacturers who do bother with publicly sharing measurements (i.e. Audeze) try and use smoothing and deceptively short y axis and long x axis to try and make their headphones look better than they actually might be. Its like those hilarious graphics card performance bar graphs you get from nvidia and AMD PR that try to make a 10% performance differences look like double.

 

[Antiwhippy]

It is kind of annoying how unstandardised measurements are for headphones though.

It's even harder for IEMs just due to insertion depth.

 

[Nero's Neptune]

One of the big issues with measuring headphones is the physical method of getting them placed and measured. I remember Tyll talking about how he measured them by placing them on the dummy head in 4-5 different ways, then averaging the measurements together. This is problematic because there's only one correct way to wear a pair of headphones, and different headphones are going to measure differently based on how they're placed. A closed headphone requires a certain amount of seal to get the intended air movement, but an open headphone needs no such thing. (Or, rather, different placement isn't going to affect air flow) He effectively averages in irrelevant data into his measurements.

That's about as far as what I know with how the different sites measure their headphones, but it's absolutely enough for me (and really anyone) to be at the very least skeptical.

It is kind of annoying how unstandardised measurements are for headphones though.

It's even harder for IEMs just due to insertion depth.

Man, I can't even use IEMs because I can never get a symmetrical seal. Trying to measure would be hell.

 

[Tommy DJ]

The difficulty in measuring headphones hasn't really got to do achieving a reliable measurement. Like, are you going to say electronic theodolites can't be trusted because they exhibit drift depending on which side you choose to take your angle and bearing measurement? No, you wouldn't and if you wanted serious accuracy you'd average both sides.

Same thing here. Its how literally every single worthwhile mod, from the magnitudes of Fostex T50RP mods to the current Sennheiser HD800 SuperDupont Resonator mod were created. Not from people guessing subjectively but people determining if they were or weren't actually suffering from placebo effects.

If you can't achieve a good seal, you'd know immediately because bass literally disappears...I'd hope Tyll isn't a dumb shit and includes measurements that have literally zero bass below 150hz in his averages. Position in general isn't really anything to worry about either if you average your information because all it really does is shift 1khz+ peaks and dips up and down. The peaks and dips still exist. Even then, it generally only severely impacts the measurement quality of the "air" frequencies (10khz and above) which Golden Ears have nicely shaded as the "No Guarantee Area".

So to sum up:
- FR measurements are reliable provided you or the person who is taking the measurements is consistent in his or her method. Which is why any good report that deals with observed results tells you their method.
- FR measurements cannot be cross compared for this reason.
- Bad seals are dead obvious because you measure extremely little bass. You toss those measurements out because they are obviously bad.
- Positioning does not turn peaks into huge dips and vice versa. 99% of the time, it will merely change the Y axis values of these dips and peaks. An average is not dishonest or inaccurate lol. Its like saying GPS measurements cannot be trusted at all because the information it gives you is based on an average that includes serious measurement errors.
- Positioning and measurement equipment can't handle 10khz frequencies too well so YMMV. Same goes for sub-bass. Both are relatively inconsequential because no really critical sonic information is actually found in those frequency ranges.

Again, are you going to tell the loudspeaker-audio industry that their methods cannot be trusted and they've been designing loudspeakers incorrectly for many decades by trusting measurements they should be skeptical of? The methods to measure loudpseakers, when distilled to the steps, are literally the same as the methods used to measure headphones. The only difference is that us loudspeaker guys have pretty standardised equipment and target curves.

The real difficulty that Tyll talks about these days has to do with target curves and finding one that actually represents how we'd actually hear sound from a headphone. Which not really that important if the person in question has provided measurements of a reference headphone that people know is relatively neutral.

Also:

This is problematic because there's only one correct way to wear a pair of headphones, and different headphones are going to measure differently based on how they're placed.

There isn't "one correct way to wear a pair of headphones", I'm not sure you understand what Tyll is talking about here. The measured frequency response of the Sennheiser HD800, for instance, changes very obviously when you change the location of the ear canal in relation to the transducer. The dips and peaks still exist at the exact same frequency ranges but the magnitude in relation to everything below ~1khz will be different.

The fact that different headphones respond differently to position is not remotely problematic because the process aims to replicate a real world situation. One where you cannot get 100% the exact same transducer <-> ear canal angle and distance relationship every time you wear a headphone. Since getting the exact same placement is infeasible in the real world, you take an average of multiple measurements to produce a rough idea of what it sounds like in most situations. Every measurement rig, from DIY to $10,000 kits, should be able to achieve this consistently as all measurement rigs for headphones are head and ear analogues of some sort.

 

[HiResDes]

K601 are pretty close to neutral don't understand the beef with the graph.

 

[Tommy DJ]

Looking into the K601 matter further, because it is strange that Head Room is so different, here is Marv's measurements from Superbestaudiofriends/Changstar:

Not the same for obvious reasons but the sound signature is similar with the same ~2khz & 5khz bumps as the Golden Ears graph. So if two of them are showing the same overall FR pattern, Head Room must be doing something strange.

Turns out the website for Head Room lets you adjust the graphs for headphones. Here is the raw frequency response graph for the K601 from Head Room:

Looks pretty similar to both the Changstar and Golden Ears with the same 2khz and 5khz peaks. So like I said at the start, you're misinterpreting measurements here.

 

[HiResDes]

Yeah they definitely have a few peaks but they're not as sharp as the ones exhibited by the K712. Pretty much every AKG headphone I've tried had some treble peaks to a degree, but the K601 and K612 weren't as sibilant to my ears.

 

[Antiwhippy]

Regarding not trusting graphs, personally do think that at the end you should trust your ears to like what you like, because really, natural hearing damage is and a whole host of other factors goes into how we perceive sound, but I think if you're interested in the science of sound it's fun to see how graphs correlate with what we hear.

Also isn't neutral generally considered a downward sloping frequency nowadays?

 

[SolarMystic]

Yeah, I definitely need to replace my HD650's. Listening to music last night, mainly rap, and it's all just felt so relaxed, almost flat at times. Maybe the Magni will change it a bit but I might just go back and buy the X2's again.

The hd650 is not a flat headphone, but for rap the X2 would absolutely serve you better.

 

[HiResDes]

Hell as out of style as they seen to be a nice bassy closed headphone like the JVC SZ1000 might be better for you if you're really just listening to rap.

 

[LQX]

Posted this in my own thread last night but noone answered. Hopefully some of you can provide advice in here!

My mum broke my Astro A40s today when cleaning.

I'm just wondering what to replace them with.

I'm thinking of maybe getting some actual headphones rather than a gaming headset, since I never used my Astro A40s microphone and would like to know what better audio sounds like.

The thing is I would like headphones that work great on PC, PS4 and Xbox One.

I would like to know how regular headphones connect to the consoles. When using my Astro A40s I would plug them into the MixAmp and plug that into the consoles with the optical cable.

Would it be worth getting a better DAC or Amp? (I haven't ever looked into these.) My MixAmp has a little bit of a crackle, and makes noise when adjusting the volume.

There's quite a lot of recommendations out there for regular gaming headsets, but not so much for regular headphones being used with consoles and PC. I think I would like some really nice sounding headphones whilst still having them work on the consoles to watch Blu-ray movies, Netflix and play games.

My budget would be from £100 to £200 but if you can suggest ones that are a little more but worth it, please recommend those too.

P.S.: It would also be a bonus if these could connect to my Wii U. I haven't looked into that either.

Sennheiser GAME ZERO? On the UK site it lists it as the updated version so you can use it on your consoles via the headphone jack. It is on par with the HD598 which is a great stand alone headphone.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00JQDOANK/

Philips X2 Fidelio is pretty cheap in the UK so that might be a great option with a boom mic.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00MRUPSHQ/

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00BJ17WKK/

Audio-Technica ATH-M50X (another good choice)
http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00HVLUR86/

Then maybe get a cheap headphone amp if need be and piggyback it off of the A40 which you can still use as optical input for your consoles?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00MFMW29I/

 

[j-wood]

The M50x are on sale for $117 on amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HVLUR86/?tag=neogaf0e-20

 

[PastorOfMuppets]

Here's a question for you guys.

Are any of you planning on getting into the VR thing? If so, how do you plan on handling the audio part of the process? People are recommending that wireless headphones are a must with both the Vive and Rift options.

 

[thuway]

What makes the Chord Hugo so expensive? I see all this glowing praise, but I really don't understand what sort of technology inside it would necessitate such a huge cost.

 

[Tommy DJ]

What makes the Chord Hugo so expensive? I see all this glowing praise, but I really don't understand what sort of technology inside it would necessitate such a huge cost.

Audiophile pricing + FPGA. Same reason why nvidia G-Sync is expensive - FPGAs are not cheap.

Honestly dunno why they chose to use a FPGA but it's a nice point that makes it different from everything else on the market.

 

[Dynamite Ringo Matsuri]

Nothing. It's just that audiophiles are willing to pay that much due to sheer hype. I had one. It didn't change my life or anything. In fact, I didn't find it to be all that much better than the GO 450 that I paid $120 for.

 

[leng jai]

Just like how the LCD4s are $4k.

 

[BeforeU]

Using QC25 for few days now, absolutely loving it.

As someone who tested countless headphones, nothing comes close to the comfort of these. Holly grail for commuters.

Even in bus I am using it at volume 18/30 and still hear every details. ANC is off the chart.

 

[Antiwhippy]

Chord mojo is a far more sensible product than the Hugo. From what I know it's pretty much an updated version of the Hugo's programming, only they put it into something that is actually portable and at a price that's kinda justified.

 

[leng jai]

How about 7995£ for this DAC:

 

[Antiwhippy]

Or $120K for this from light harmonics.

 

[Xander51]

Using QC25 for few days now, absolutely loving it.

As someone who tested countless headphones, nothing comes close to the comfort of these. Holly grail for commuters.

Even in bus I am using it at volume 18/30 and still hear every details. ANC is off the chart.

Yup! Still my go-to headphone when I'm working remotely. Love the fit and the sound is surprisingly good. Bass is particularly rich and accurate.

 

[leng jai]

How are Grado going these days? Their popularity seems to have fallen off a cliff in recent times and I barely recall hearing about any new headphones from them. I remember they used to recommended for rock all the time and that the SR60 was the absolute value king. I bought one about 8 years ago and absolutely hated it actually due to the non existent soundstage, terrible sand paper like pads and annoying cable.

 

[Antiwhippy]

People who used them for modding seemed to have moved on to fostex.

 

[Dynamite Ringo Matsuri]

Quality control at Grado seems to have gone down the crapper in recent years. Around the time the E series launched basically. It's kinda crazy that so many high profile, even flagship phones would have absolute shit build and QC for the money you're shelling out.

 

[Antiwhippy]

It's not that surprising if you look at the popularity of hifiman, Beyerdynamic and audeze.