• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

The Official UFC 94: Georges St. Pierre vs. B.J. Penn Thread

Status
Not open for further replies.

Boogie

Member
33wxx8j.jpg


On January 31st, 2009, combat sports fans will be exposed to what has the possibility of being THE marquee fight of the not-quite 19-year old sport of Mixed Martial Arts.

On January 31st, two champions will faceoff in the Ultimate Fighting Championship as UFC Welterweight Champion Georges, “Rush” St. Pierre rematches “The Prodigy” BJ Penn.

This is a fight that could define our era of MMA. The funny part is, the anticipation does not come from their first fight, which was an admittedly lackluster affair. Instead, the anticipation comes from the entirety of these two fighters’ careers. Perhaps never before in MMA has such skill, potential, and accomplishment collided in a single fight.

Who they are:

Georges “Rush” St. Pierre (17-2).
5'10"
170lbs
27 years old

gsp.jpg


If you have not heard the name, you don’t follow combat sports. St. Pierre, or “GSP” as he is known affectionately throughout the MMA world, is, essentially, the prototypical modern MMA fighter. He is the fighter against whom all others, consciously or not, are compared. He is an athletic phenom. He has never wrestled competitively in his life, yet is the best wrestler in his weight class in MMA. He is an incredible striker, stringing together combinations that vary punches with kicks and takedowns. He is also an elite grappler, having recently earned a black belt in Brazilian-Jiu Jitsu.

The only area in which we cannot declare GSP to be utterly amazing at is his bottom game, but that’s because he’s so rarely put on his back.

A few short years ago, GSP was called the future of the sport. In 2009, that future has long since arrived. GSP is perhaps the most dominant fighter in MMA outside of Fedor himself, having cut a swatch of destruction through the Welterweight division.

Beyond his physical dominance, GSP is a fan-favourite because he is perhaps the nicest guy in the sport. He’s a total class act, and his not-quite-perfect grasp of English has provided some of the more entertaining quotes in MMA.

B.J. “The Prodigy” Penn (13-4-1)
5'9"
170lbs
30 years old.

BJ-Penn.jpg


BJ Penn is one of the most skilled and unique fighters in the sport. He captivates half of the MMA fanbase, and irritates the other half. Longtime GAF MMA fans know in which half I tend to reside.

BJ was born into what is pretty much the wealthiest family on Hawaii. BJ took up Brazilian Jiu Jitsu in 1997, and, as his nickname suggests, he showed tremendous aptitude for the sport. Only three years after he took up the sport, Penn would earn his black belt and become the first non-Brazilian to win a BJJ world championship.

Penn quickly carried his talents into MMA, and making waves to the point that he shocked the world by beating a prime Matt Hughes. Since that point, Penn has been inconsistent, showing flashes of brilliance, but also showing at times a lack of motivation, fitness, and interest in fighting to the best of his ability.

Since returning to the Lightweight division in 2007, however, Penn has strung together three dominant wins that have re-energized his career, and now he again moves up to Welterweight in an attempt to avenge his prior loss to GSP and achieve glory for himself.

Penn has amazing and unique Jiu-jitsu ability, and also very devastating, though limited striking. While GSP utilizes all of the striking tools of the human body, Penn rarely throws kicks or knees. Instead, Penn’s striking tends to stick to jabs and crosses, but he makes perhaps the most effective use of those techniques in MMA. Penn also has very good wrestling skills, though he rarely uses them offensively, instead using his unique flexibility to defend against the takedown.

Why you should watch:

Because these are two fighters at the top of their game. Both have the potential, with this fight to become more than champions. With an impressive victory, the winner could become one of the few true legends of this still young sport.

Both fighters have been laying waste to their divisions with impressive performances. Both have appeared to be on a completely different level than their competition. If this fight lives up to the potential, it will be epic.

My analysis:

I am biased. GSP is my man-crush, and Penn irritates the hell out of me. In that vein, most of my analysis tends to point to a GSP victory. GSP has superior size and strength. The evidence would tend to show that GSP has better cardio, as he just had a 5-round beating of Jon Fitch, whereas Penn has a history of being out of shape and gassing. The counter to that is the fact that BJ has appeared to be motivated and in great shape in his last few fights. Whether that will still hold true at 170lbs will remain to be seen.

Also, GSP won, barely, their first fight. Though an intangible, GSP’s career shows that his performance improves in rematches. From losing his first fight against Hughes, GSP rebounded to win decisively in the rematch, and completely dismantle Hughes in the rubber match. From getting upset by Serra to toying with him in the rematch. If that trend means anything (and it might not), it could point to a bad night for BJ. Also to be mentioned is that GSP trains with perhaps the top team in MMA today, the Greg Jackson camp. This is another tick in GSP’s favour as Jackson will doubtlessly provide GSP with a solid gameplan.

Assessing how their skills currently match up, I think that GSP has the more well-rounded striking. Penn boxing is probably somewhat better than GSP’s, but GSP has far and a way better kicks.

Wrestling-wise, there is no question that GSP is the one who can and will dictate where the fight takes place. Penn might be able to fight off the takedown for a bit, but he will not stop it.

On the ground, the edge theoretically goes to BJ. He is the more decorated and feared Jiu-jitsu fighter. However, one thing that should be noted, other than how good GSP is on the ground too, is that BJ has exactly ZERO submission wins off of his back. And when and if this fights hits the ground, it is almost a certainty that it will be GSP on top. In combination with GSP’s top control, I can see GSP grinding out BJ as the fight wears on. And no matter how much Penn’s cardio may have improved, I see it as axiomatic that the longer the fight goes, the lower Penn’s chances get.

Which is not to say that I don’t think BJ has a chance. He’s a great fighter. He could outbox GSP and frustrate him, score a knockdown, and then take his back and put him to sleep. GSP could get careless on the ground and get swept by BJ. I just don’t think it likely.

I’m calling GSP on this one, possibly a stoppage in the later rounds.


The UFC, recognizing the potential of this fight, has taken a page from HBO and is airing a 24/7-style behind the scenes series called “UFC PrimeTime” following GSP and Penn in their training camps. It airs Wednesdays on Spike at 10est, starting tomorrow night. Don’t miss it!

ufc94.jpg


Preview of UFC Primetime: http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2009/1/12/718314/ufc-primetime-st-pierre-vs#comments



Official UFC event site: http://94.ufc.com/

Courtesy of Bishman, behind the scenes of their first fight:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzvvaqAe9hE&eurl=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtoApfox9As&eurl=

GSP Highlight video: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5ymoc_georgesrushstpierrehlv20juggo_sport

Penn highlight video: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4o5yt_bj-penn-highlight-the-prodigy_extreme
 

HAOHMARU

Member
This will be a great fight. I hope BJ can pull it off but I don't think his standup/cardio will hold up against GSP's.
 

dem

Member
Come on boogie.. i know you have a mancrush on georges.. but this couldnt have waited till AFTER UFC 93??

:p
 

Boogie

Member
Of course, the rest of the card is absolutely stacked as well. Probably even moreso, in my opinion, than the Year-end show.

Thiago Silva (13-0) vs. Lyoto Machida (13-0)

Few things quite match the automatic hype of two undefeated fighters facing off. In Machida/Silva, we have Aggressive vs. Elusive. I'm really not sure how to break this fight down or who to pick, but I'm excited to see what happens. Silva has only had one of his fights go to decision, while Machida has had 8 of his fights (61%) go the distance. I'm going to flip the coin and call Machida the victor.

Karo Parisyan (18-5) vs. Dong Hyun Kim (11-0)

Karo's star has fallen in the past year or so, and he's had to deal with some personal issues as well. Nonetheless, he's always an exciting fighter, and I'll always be a fan. Kim is undefeated, but against lackluster competition. I'm hoping Karo pulls it off here.

Nathan Diaz (10-2) vs. Clay Guida (24-9)

The less-retarded Diaz brother faces off against Mr. Energy, Clay Guida. Diaz tends to pull off come-from-behind wins very well, but this is a step up in competition for him, and I'm not quite sure Diaz has the potential to solve Guida. Guida by decision in an exciting fight.

Stephan Bonnar (11-4) vs. Jon Jones (7-0)

Stephan Bonnar returns after a year-long layoff to fight an undefeated nobody. Bonnar.

Jon Fitch (17-3) vs. Akihiro Gono (29-13-7)

Fitch goes from headlining to relegated to the prelims. Damn. The lesson is: Don't cross The Dana.

Anyway, Gono is a vet, but he won't beat Fitch.

Damn, what a card. (and that's not even all of the fights)
 

Boogie

Member
dem said:
Come on boogie.. i know you have a mancrush on georges.. but this couldnt have waited till AFTER UFC 93??

:p

Absolutely NOT!

The UFC Primetime series premieres tomorrow, and I wanted to get the thread out the door before that.

And the Fedor/Mirko thread was made a month before the event!

In conclusion: Quit yer bitchin'

Pic added to OP. But why is BJ sporting the Union Jack? :p
 

Arde5643

Member
Subjectively, I support no one since I love both guys.

Objectively, I think GSP has the edge due to his athleticism and extra weight compared to BJ.
While BJ might have better skill in boxing and BJJ, I don't think it will beat GSP's all around impressive skills and athleticism.

60:40 for GSP IMO.
 

Fafnir

Member
BJ vs GSP
My brain is saying pick GSP, but my gut feeling is that BJ will somehow pull off the victory. BJ by flash KO.

Machida vs Silva
Another hard pick. I'm really not sold on Silva as his recent wins all came by zombie Nog tactics (get's knocked down in stand-up, lures his opponent in, then GnP's ftw). I think Machida is too smart for that. Machida by decision.
ryotopenn01bg2.gif


Nate Diaz vs. Clay Guida
Diaz might be a punk, but he has some great BJJ. Thinking Caveman will be going for the take-downs and then get caught in a submission.

Fitch vs Gono
Gono will win entrance of the night then get sent back to Japan by Fitch.
 

Tristam

Member
Doesn't Fedor face off against Arlovski even before this fight takes place? That match-up is huge. Of course whenever GSP fights I'm all over it too...
 

Fuzzy

I would bang a hot farmer!
I'm really looking forward to the show and hope it's as good as the HBO ones for Boxing.
 

smurfx

get some go again
Georges St-Pierre vs. B.J. Penn
Lyoto Machida vs. Thiago Silva
Stephan Bonnar vs. Jon Jones
Karo Parisyan vs. Dong Hyun Kim
Nate Diaz vs. Clay Guida

Preliminary Card

Jon Fitch vs. Akihiro Gono
Thiago Tavares vs. Manvel Gamburyan
Jake O'Brien vs. Christian Wellisch
John Howard vs. Chris Wilson
Matt Arroyo vs. Dan Cramer

alright guys you can use this to pick your fighters. here are my picks.

Georges St-Pierre vs. B.J. Penn
Lyoto Machida vs. Thiago Silva
Stephan Bonnar vs. Jon Jones
Karo Parisyan vs. Dong Hyun Kim
Nate Diaz vs. Clay Guida
 

Eggo

GameFan Alumnus
I'm sad that we have a UFC 94 thread before a UFC 93 thread, and that one is this weekend. Also, I'm shocked that Fitch is still on the undercard. Stephan Bonnar is considered a bigger draw than the former #1 contender? Ouch.
 

Sinatar

Official GAF Bottom Feeder
Eggo said:
I'm sad that we have a UFC 94 thread before a UFC 93 thread, and that one is this weekend. Also, I'm shocked that Fitch is still on the undercard. Stephan Bonnar is considered a bigger draw than the former #1 contender? Ouch.

Nah, Fitch is being punished for the whole videogame debacle.
 

Eggo

GameFan Alumnus
Sinatar said:
Nah, Fitch is being punished for the whole videogame debacle.

I know exactly why they're doing it. I figured that would have blown over by benching him in the last UFC. Is he relegated to prelims for the rest of his career until he gets another shot at the title? Enough is enough.
 

Fuzzy

I would bang a hot farmer!
Eggo said:
I'm sad that we have a UFC 94 thread before a UFC 93 thread, and that one is this weekend. Also, I'm shocked that Fitch is still on the undercard. Stephan Bonnar is considered a bigger draw than the former #1 contender? Ouch.
Yeah, this should be changed to a UFC 93/94 combo thread of awesomeness.
 

iddqd

Member
what about 93?
94 is more exiting and BIGGER but hendo vs franklin and the marcus davis match should be good!
 

smurfx

get some go again
iddqd said:
what about 93?
94 is more exiting and BIGGER but hendo vs franklin and the marcus davis match should be good!
i'm hoping shogun comes back strong. hopefully kang has a good debut.
 
two of my favorite fighters, I was undecided who I though would win until I seen the new preview of the fight and bj penn saying he is going to literally kill him (was dead serious) so I will go with penn, not many fighter can match penn when hes on his game.
 

karasu

Member
I don't usually make up my mind about a winner before a fight has taken place, but I think Penn will win this one easily. I'm just not sold on Pierre yet.
 
Good card. I'll be watching the Diaz fight closely for some lulz, and of course have a great hunger for the Machida and GSP fights.

I really hope GSP takes it. I...strongly dislike BJ :lol.
 

Asbel

Member
Damn, all this complaining and no appreciation. :lol The official mma thread could always be used to discuss an event. If you want a separate 93 or Affliction thread, just put up the effort to make one. It's not a big deal to not have one. We can talk mma just fine without one for each event. Still, I appreciate a good event thread OP and this thread has one.
 

Asbel

Member
Boogie said:
My analysis:

I am biased. GSP is my man-crush, and Penn irritates the hell out of me. In that vein, most of my analysis tends to point to a GSP victory. GSP has superior size and strength. The evidence would tend to show that GSP has better cardio, as he just had a 5-round beating of Jon Fitch, whereas Penn has a history of being out of shape and gassing. The counter to that is the fact that BJ has appeared to be motivated and in great shape in his last few fights. Whether that will still hold true at 170lbs will remain to be seen.

Also, GSP won, barely, their first fight. Though an intangible, GSP’s career shows that his performance improves in rematches. From losing his first fight against Hughes, GSP rebounded to win decisively in the rematch, and completely dismantle Hughes in the rubber match. From getting upset by Serra to toying with him in the rematch. If that trend means anything (and it might not), it could point to a bad night for BJ. Also to be mentioned is that GSP trains with perhaps the top team in MMA today, the Greg Jackson camp. This is another tick in GSP’s favour as Jackson will doubtlessly provide GSP with a solid gameplan.

Assessing how their skills currently match up, I think that GSP has the more well-rounded striking. Penn boxing is probably somewhat better than GSP’s, but GSP has far and a way better kicks.

Wrestling-wise, there is no question that GSP is the one who can and will dictate where the fight takes place. Penn might be able to fight off the takedown for a bit, but he will not stop it.

On the ground, the edge theoretically goes to BJ. He is the more decorated and feared Jiu-jitsu fighter. However, one thing that should be noted, other than how good GSP is on the ground too, is that BJ has exactly ZERO submission wins off of his back. And when and if this fights hits the ground, it is almost a certainty that it will be GSP on top. In combination with GSP’s top control, I can see GSP grinding out BJ as the fight wears on. And no matter how much Penn’s cardio may have improved, I see it as axiomatic that the longer the fight goes, the lower Penn’s chances get.

Which is not to say that I don’t think BJ has a chance. He’s a great fighter. He could outbox GSP and frustrate him, score a knockdown, and then take his back and put him to sleep. GSP could get careless on the ground and get swept by BJ. I just don’t think it likely.

I’m calling GSP on this one, possibly a stoppage in the later rounds.

Good analysis. Penn probably doesn't have any subs off his back cuz he's usually dominant in his wins and don't end up on the bottom in those fights. Make no mistake that Penn is incredibly dangerous off his back, even to GSP. Still, I think GSP better take this fight to the ground. Penn has the better chin and even though it's just as risky in Penn's guard, there is more luck involved in a standup fight than a ground fight. Basically, Sherk's gameplan against Penn was a horrible, horrible idea.

Also, I'm not sure GSP can dictate where the fight goes as it's going to be a lot of stuffed takedowns before he scores one. That is to say, BJ will be able to keep it standing as often, if not more times than GSP will be able to take the fight to the ground. And BJ is sure to stand up off his back even while GSP tries to keep him down.
 

Brian Fellows

Pete Carroll Owns Me
y2dvd said:
I don't like BJ either and I'll say it again, I don't think he deserves the title shot. WAR GSP!

Its not really a matter of opinion. Its a simple fact. The mouthy little fuckstick has done nothing to earn this shot. This should be GSP vs Alves. If BJ somehow wins this fight and he's not stripped of the LW title Dana should shot in the face. BJ's lazy ass is not capable of defending two titles in a timely manner.
 

GodofWine

Member
BJ Penn...he's been on a mission for the last 2 years to dispatch anyone and everyone.

GSP is great though, and could win...but BJ's ground game is probably better than what we've ever seen out of him, I swear he is holding back still.

Arm Bar, or Ankle lock
 

Brian Fellows

Pete Carroll Owns Me
GodofWine said:
GSP is great though, and could win...but BJ's ground game is probably better than what we've ever seen out of him, I swear he is holding back still.

What exactly has he done on the ground that was so impressive? Subbing Stevenson and Pulver cant be it. Did he have another fight I missed?
 

BSsBrolly

Banned
Asbel said:
Also, I'm not sure GSP can dictate where the fight goes as it's going to be a lot of stuffed takedowns before he scores one. That is to say, BJ will be able to keep it standing as often, if not more times than GSP will be able to take the fight to the ground. And BJ is sure to stand up off his back even while GSP tries to keep him down.

Did you watch their first fight? GSP took Penn down at will. GSP will have no problem keeping this fight where he wants it. If he wants to stand, Penn will stand. If he wants it on the ground, Penn will be on the ground.

GSP should own Penn, hopefully makes him look like his bitch.
 

dem

Member
I'm takin BJ

bj_rules.gif


Logic says GSP will just take him down and GNP him..
GSP manhandles big wrestlers at 170... as good as BJ's takedown defense is.. GSP is just too big and strong.



But BJ is probably my favourite fighter... So I'm takin BJ

penngloves.gif
 

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
94 thread before 93? This is just gonna get confusing.

One week guideline for official threads applies here. PM me 7 days before the event, boogie, and I'll reopen.
 

yacobod

Banned
BSsBrolly said:
Did you watch their first fight? GSP took Penn down at will. GSP will have no problem keeping this fight where he wants it. If he wants to stand, Penn will stand. If he wants it on the ground, Penn will be on the ground.

GSP should own Penn, hopefully makes him look like his bitch.

exaggerate much?

if GSP keeps the fight on his feet he's going to lose imo, GSP will try to grind out BJ with wrestling and GNP, GSPs stand up is overrated imo

i like both fighters, but i think BJ takes this fight
 

newsguy

Member
Oh yes. So I didn't take a vacation from work in 2008. I said to myself, "if I took 1 weekend off, what would I do?" :D I'm telling people I'm going to witness history, and when they ask where I'm staying in D.C. I say "no, I'm off to Vegas bitches."
 

karasu

Member
Boogie said:


I'm not. It's tough to believe in fighters these days. The second you're sold on their greatness, they either rack up a string of losses or they're knocked out by relative nobodies. There's just one disappointing champion after another.
 

Asbel

Member
newsguy said:
Oh yes. So I didn't take a vacation from work in 2008. I said to myself, "if I took 1 weekend off, what would I do?" :D I'm telling people I'm going to witness history, and when they ask where I'm staying in D.C. I say "no, I'm off to Vegas bitches."
Man, I really should see a UFC live one of these days.
 

Boogie

Member
Thanks EviLore. :D

yacobod said:
exaggerate much?

if GSP keeps the fight on his feet he's going to lose imo, GSP will try to grind out BJ with wrestling and GNP, GSPs stand up is overrated imo

i like both fighters, but i think BJ takes this fight

GSP's stand up overrated? Did you see the Fitch fight?



karasu said:
I'm not. It's tough to believe in fighters these days. The second you're sold on their greatness, they either rack up a string of losses or they're knocked out by relative nobodies. There's just one disappointing champion after another.

What current MMA fighters would you say you are "sold" on, exactly, then? Don't say Fedor.
 

Asbel

Member
karasu said:
I'm not. It's tough to believe in fighters these days. The second you're sold on their greatness, they either rack up a string of losses or they're knocked out by relative nobodies. There's just one disappointing champion after another.
This isn't boxing where you're done after a couple losses. Performance matters more than a win-lose record in mma. Just look at Shogun's last performance that he 'won'. Yet most everyone is going to pick Chuck, who is 1-3 in his last 4 fights over Shogun. You should know this, everyone is capable of losing at anytime in mma. But unless they get 'caught', the great ones always put up a great fight.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom