The Order 1886 Gamescom Gameplay Trailer

nib95 said:
Games like The Last of Us prove you wrong. Don't confuse half assed or poor attempts at narrative and character building in games, with the medium itself being bad for story telling. Quite the contrary, games are an exceptional medium for storytelling, as the interactivity and longer running times offer far more leeway in developing such relationships and stories, and the impact they have on the gamer.
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ChawlieTheFair said:
I disagree but it's your opinion.

Games can tell a good story, I don't believe the Order is a game which uses it's gameplay to tell a story (asides from the interactive cutscene bits or whatever), but that's why games use cutscenes, cause films are great are selling something to the viewer without the viewer fucking it up.

I don't think there are rules to this though, it's fun to play a manly mustache dude and kill werewolves, and then watch a cutscene of why he's killing said werewolf. Maybe the cinematic isn't really part of the game, but who cares, it's serving it's purpose.
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I'm not saying that game can't tell a good story; obviously they can. The Last of Us told a great story. So did Max Payne, and Red Dead Redemption, and GTA V, and so many other games. What I'm saying is that if you just want to tell a story there are many better mediums, like books and TV series. In those formats you never need to allocate any time so something that doesn't further the story. The Last of Us had a great story, and it would have been told significantly better had it been a TV series. Video games almost always limit you to one, or very few points of view and you constantly need to make room for gameplay/player interaction, regardless of whether or not the story asks for it.

Think of it this way: when was The Last of Us' story at it's best? When did it really tug on your heart strings and make you ponder the human condition? Was it when you shot down grunt #56 with a shotgun? Was it when you crafted your shiny new scope? Probably not. I feel very confident in saying that we all agree that the answer is "during the cutscenes", i.e when it was a movie. The story in this video game was at it's best when it was no longer a video game.

I understand that you disagree, and I would love to be proven wrong(I don't mean that sarcastically). How exactly does The Last of Us prove me wrong? In what way did that story benefit from being a game?
 
ChawlieTheFair said:
Well if that is your explanation, surely you can see that the Order could do something similar? It's got the visuals, a fairly unused/well realized setting (in games at least), and from the sounds and looks of it very competent gameplay. It might not be a 30 hour rpg, but a 12 hour solid story would surely be right up your alley if you like ME no?
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Nothing they have shown yet have convinced me of this. I hoped this trailer would (it's been a long while since release trailer). It didnt.
 
lawpma.gif


I can't stop looking at this GIF. If you have told me a year ago that PS4 games would look like that so soon after launch, I would never have believed you, no way. This looks like CG.

And the fact that the gunplay seems a lot better in that trailer has been pretty reassuring. I was worried it would just be a looker with sub-par gunplay, but the sound and impact of the weapons were a lot more satisfying in that trailer,. At least to me, anyway.
 
Horp said:
It's strange then that so many people here has been continously surprised with how limited the scope of the gameplay of this game is.
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You really can't say that when you just told me ME2 was the TPS for you. They are literally the same scope of gameplay, Order is probably larger with all the physics tech and varied guns they are using.
 
xXBaconXx said:
I personally believe that if you're making a game purely for the story and setting, you're making it for the wrong reason, which is that you can't afford to make a movie. Especially if you're not planning on making player interaction a large part of the story, which this doesn't seem to do.

I don't think games are a good medium for storytelling. In fact, I firmly believe that they're one of the worst, since you constantly need to interrupt the story for gameplay. I feel as if the only reason The Order is a game, is that RAD is already a video game developer. My guess is that if HBO came to RAD and told everyone not working on gameplay "Here's 200 million Dollarydoos, go make a TV series", they would accept that offer. I think that's a terrible mindset for making a game.
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Personal point of view mate, not fact.

Some of the most memorable stories I've experienced come from gaming.

In fact, the most interesting story and the best voice acting (in a game) I've experienced comes from a pretty average gameplay series (Legacy of Kain).

There's also a point where having some form of interaction and outcome can enhance the experience of otherwise average stories, Heavy Rain being a good example.

Lots of Halo fans swear by it's story and lore being as good as any sci-fi out there. More recently, there were playable scenes in BF4 of all games that could have stood proud in a live action movie.

Anyway, game looks absolutely stunning. Such a huge leap not just over previous gen but for the most part, much of this early current generation.
 
Horp said:
It's strange then that so many people here has been continously surprised with how limited the scope of the gameplay of this game is.
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The main reason was because the E3 stage demo was an 11 minute segment edited down to 3 minutes and it was just the intro of half-breeds making it look like it was all QTEs and entirely scripted.
 
xXBaconXx said:
I personally believe that if you're making a game purely for the story and setting, you're making it for the wrong reason, which is that you can't afford to make a movie. Especially if you're not planning on making player interaction a large part of the story, which this doesn't seem to do.

I don't think games are a good medium for storytelling. In fact, I firmly believe that they're one of the worst, since you constantly need to interrupt the story for gameplay. I feel as if the only reason The Order is a game, is that RAD is already a video game developer. My guess is that if HBO came to RAD and told everyone not working on gameplay "Here's 200 million Dollarydoos, go make a TV series", they would accept that offer. I think that's a terrible mindset for making a game.
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I like completely disagree, but it's your opinion.
 
Horp said:
Yes, you are right. I hoped this trailer would show that The Order would be more than a TPS too. Maybe an RPG, maybe something else. It didn't. That's why I am disappointed.
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What gave you that indication? They've been very clear about what the game is since they announced it.
 
Lukas Japonicus said:
lawpma.gif

And the fact that the gunplay seems a lot better in that trailer has been pretty reassuring. I was worried it would just be a looker with sub-par gunplay, but the sound and impact of the weapons were a lot more satisfying in that trailer,. At least to me, anyway.
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You aren't the only one. Previous footage did not do a good job of showing recoil or hit-impact. Perhaps it's since been added to the game, or they simply showed weapons (like the rifle and shotgun) in this trailer that have more BANG to them. Regardless, I think the shooting is shaping up nicely as well.
 
xXBaconXx said:
I'm not saying that game can't tell a good story; obviously they can. The Last of Us told a great story. So did Max Payne, and Red Dead Redemption, and GTA V, and so many other games. What I'm saying is that if you just want to tell a story there are many better mediums, like books and TV series. In those formats you never need to allocate any time so something that doesn't further the story. The Last of Us had a great story, and it would have been told significantly better had it been a TV series. Video games almost always limit you to one, or very few points of view and you constantly need to make room for gameplay/player interaction, regardless of whether or not the story asks for it.

Think of it this way: when was The Last of Us' story at it's best? When did it really tug on your heart strings and make you ponder the human condition? Was it when you shot down grunt #56 with a shotgun? Was it when you crafted your shiny new scope? Probably not. I feel very confident in saying that we all agree that the answer is "during the cutscenes", i.e when it was a movie. The story in this video game was at it's best when it was no longer a video game.

I understand that you disagree, and I would love to be proven wrong(I don't mean that sarcastically). How exactly does The Last of Us prove me wrong? In what way did that story benefit from being a game?
Click to expand...

It's okay to not think TLOU is the end all be all of videogame storytelling without pulling the entire medium into it. I loved the game but I'll be the first one to say that it wasn't a great videogame narrative precisely because most of the major development occurred while the player had no control. That doesn't mean videogames can't tell a story, that means developers haven't got it totally right yet. Has no bearing on whether The Order should or should not have a heavy narrative focus.
 
xXBaconXx said:
I'm not saying that game can't tell a good story; obviously they can. The Last of Us told a great story. So did Max Payne, and Red Dead Redemption, and GTA V, and so many other games. What I'm saying is that if you just want to tell a story there are many better mediums, like books and TV series. In those formats you never need to allocate any time so something that doesn't further the story. The Last of Us had a great story, and it would have been told significantly better had it been a TV series. Video games almost always limit you to one, or very few points of view and you constantly need to make room for gameplay/player interaction, regardless of whether or not the story asks for it.

Think of it this way: when was The Last of Us' story at it's best? When did it really tug on your heart strings and make you ponder the human condition? Was it when you shot down grunt #56 with a shotgun? Was it when you crafted your shiny new scope? Probably not. I feel very confident in saying that we all agree that the answer is "during the cutscenes", i.e when it was a movie. The story in this video game was at it's best when it was no longer a video game.

I understand that you disagree, and I would love to be proven wrong(I don't mean that sarcastically). How exactly does The Last of Us prove me wrong? In what way did that story benefit from being a game?
Click to expand...
It's all about pacing. TLoU is paced different from a movie or a TV show. Watching the "all cutscenes" video on youtube isn't anywhere near the experience of actually playing the game.
 
The graphics look unbelievable, the story looks fascinating, the world beautiful, stylish and dark, and the guns look varied and inventive. If the core gameplay is enjoyable TPS action with a solid story then I'll be very happy.
 
xXBaconXx said:
I'm not saying that game can't tell a good story; obviously they can. The Last of Us told a great story. So did Max Payne, and Red Dead Redemption, and GTA V, and so many other games. What I'm saying is that if you just want to tell a story there are many better mediums, like books and TV series. In those formats you never need to allocate any time so something that doesn't further the story. The Last of Us had a great story, and it would have been told significantly better had it been a TV series. Video games almost always limit you to one, or very few points of view and you constantly need to make room for gameplay/player interaction, regardless of whether or not the story asks for it.

Think of it this way: when was The Last of Us' story at it's best? When did it really tug on your heart strings and make you ponder the human condition? Was it when you shot down grunt #56 with a shotgun? Was it when you crafted your shiny new scope? Probably not. I feel very confident in saying that we all agree that the answer is "during the cutscenes", i.e when it was a movie. The story in this video game was at it's best when it was no longer a video game.

I understand that you disagree, and I would love to be proven wrong(I don't mean that sarcastically). How exactly does The Last of Us prove me wrong? In what way did that story benefit from being a game?
Click to expand...

Yeah I totally agree, I'm just saying that using cutscenes to tell stories and gameplay to sell gameplay is not necessarily bad nor does it detract from the story. There is something to be gotten from "playing" a character, like a mobster or a STALKER, etc. While maybe running over a random civilian or killing a big rat monster isn't progressing or adding much to the story, it's just the fact you are doing it that sells the overall package to you. Playing a mythological knight that protects London from werewolves (to me at least) is pretty cool. TLOU's characters/story was good regardless of the fact that often the most heart tugging moments were during cutscenes, because the most tense moments were during gameplay, and those kind of moments are a hell of a lot harder to sell on TV (Walking Dead for instance).
 
xXBaconXx said:
I'm not saying that game can't tell a good story; obviously they can. The Last of Us told a great story. So did Max Payne, and Red Dead Redemption, and GTA V, and so many other games. What I'm saying is that if you just want to tell a story there are many better mediums, like books and TV series. In those formats you never need to allocate any time so something that doesn't further the story. The Last of Us had a great story, and it would have been told significantly better had it been a TV series. Video games almost always limit you to one, or very few points of view and you constantly need to make room for gameplay/player interaction, regardless of whether or not the story asks for it.

Think of it this way: when was The Last of Us' story at it's best? When did it really tug on your heart strings and make you ponder the human condition? Was it when you shot down grunt #56 with a shotgun? Was it when you crafted your shiny new scope? Probably not. I feel very confident in saying that we all agree that the answer is "during the cutscenes", i.e when it was a movie. The story in this video game was at it's best when it was no longer a video game.

I understand that you disagree, and I would love to be proven wrong(I don't mean that sarcastically). How exactly does The Last of Us prove me wrong? In what way did that story benefit from being a game?
Click to expand...

Sigh.

I find posts and points like yours somewhat regressive. It's almost like you're saying that because other mediums exist that can also be used to tell a good story, developers should just stop focusing on developing narratives and characters in games completely, which to me seems ridiculous. The industry has made strides in video gaming story telling and character building in recent years, adding profoundly to the overall quality of certain games, I for one hope the industry keeps pushing things forward in this regard, as I truly think that gaming is in many ways has more potential for story telling than gaming or books, as mentioned, due to the interactive nature of video games, and the longevity and type of exposure they permit.
 
xXBaconXx said:
I'm not saying that game can't tell a good story; obviously they can. The Last of Us told a great story. So did Max Payne, and Red Dead Redemption, and GTA V, and so many other games. What I'm saying is that if you just want to tell a story there are many better mediums, like books and TV series. In those formats you never need to allocate any time so something that doesn't further the story. The Last of Us had a great story, and it would have been told significantly better had it been a TV series. Video games almost always limit you to one, or very few points of view and you constantly need to make room for gameplay/player interaction, regardless of whether or not the story asks for it.

Think of it this way: when was The Last of Us' story at it's best? When did it really tug on your heart strings and make you ponder the human condition? Was it when you shot down grunt #56 with a shotgun? Was it when you crafted your shiny new scope? Probably not. I feel very confident in saying that we all agree that the answer is "during the cutscenes", i.e when it was a movie. The story in this video game was at it's best when it was no longer a video game.

I understand that you disagree, and I would love to be proven wrong(I don't mean that sarcastically). How exactly does The Last of Us prove me wrong? In what way did that story benefit from being a game?
Click to expand...


The story benefits from being a game because actually stabbing a clicker in the neck or improvising a way out of a situation when you have no ammo or running away from an army of attackers is better than watching someone else do it on screen. Games put YOU in the moment and give YOU control. Why the hell do I want to go watch the Expendables when I can essentially be one in Call of Duty?

Games like Bioshock take this a step further by tricking you into thinking your direct input has altered the trajectory of the narrative.

I don't agree with you that the game would be better as a TV series. It would be different. The movie certainly will be less impactful than the game due to length and yanno that... interactive part.
 
Stunning. The best showcase of the game so far really. Solid gunplay with interesting weapons (machine gun + Shotgun?)/ stunning visuals that really compliments the atmosphere well/interesting setting = win
 
No one else wondering where all this destruction they harped on about ? I mean it looks great but the advanced physics had me way more hyped then the good looks.

I hope they haven't slyly dropped them and not mentioned it.
 
Wasteman said:
No one else wondering where all this destruction they harped on about ? I mean it looks great but the advanced physics had me way more hyped then the good looks.

I hope they haven't slyly dropped them and not mentioned it.
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Thinking the same thing man. I'm kind of losing interest in the title a little bit. I have to admit this new trailer didn't do much for me. It looks beautiful, but so do a lot of other games.

Rooting for it to be a success though. I don't want Ready at Dawn to struggle as a studio due to this game potentially not being all that great.
 
You can't compare video game storytelling to TV or movies so cut and dry. When looking at the story of a video game you have to take into account the idea of player input and interaction with the game/characters/world/story. Being in control and actually playing a game amplifies the story making the story much more powerful and impactful. The Last of Us as it is wouldn't be nearly as amazing an experience if it wasn't a video game. I would have never developed the bond I did with the characters had I not been controlling the game the whole time and instead just watching them on TV with no control.

Near the end of TLOU
at the giraffe scene I sat there with Ellie for a good 5 minutes just enjoying it knowing what we've been through throughout the game and what was going to happen next. I could take in that moment as long or as little as I wanted.
No TV show or movie can replicate experiences like that.
 
Gaz_RB said:
This is the best trailer they've done. Looks amazing.



was that a goddamn shotgun attached to a machine gun? Day 1
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I think that's a secondary fire for that weapon? Its a very strong pulse of air that can kill enemies. Same weapon from that alley scene

I like the fact this is the same part from a previous trailer if im not mistaken. This time the werewolf doesn't get to the protagonist. Branching paths!
 
GooWop said:
I think that's a secondary fire for that weapon? Its a very strong pulse of air that can kill enemies. Same weapon from that alley scene

I like the fact this is the same part from a previous trailer if im not mistaken. This time the werewolf doesn't get to the protagonist. Branching paths!
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Well actually it looked as if that was what happened after the wolf through him through that window, looked like he was under a desk or something like that. But the elevator bit must be a branching path.
 
ChawlieTheFair said:
Yeah I totally agree, I'm just saying that using cutscenes to tell stories and gameplay to sell gameplay is not necessarily bad nor does it detract from the story. There is something to be gotten from "playing" a character, like a mobster or a STALKER, etc. While maybe running over a random civilian or killing a big rat monster isn't progressing or adding much to the story, it's just the fact you are doing it that sells the overall package to you. Playing a mythological knight that protects London from werewolves (to me at least) is pretty cool.
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Totally agreed. Story and context and background lore adds a lot to games for me.

And I know I'm in the minority these days, but cutscenes have never bothered me. I'm still okay with a game if I'm not in control every single second of its playtime. Certainly I don't want too much control taken away, it's a delicate balance, but as long as the segments that I do control are interesting then it's all good.
 
xXBaconXx said:
I'm not saying that game can't tell a good story; obviously they can. The Last of Us told a great story. So did Max Payne, and Red Dead Redemption, and GTA V, and so many other games. What I'm saying is that if you just want to tell a story there are many better mediums, like books and TV series. In those formats you never need to allocate any time so something that doesn't further the story. The Last of Us had a great story, and it would have been told significantly better had it been a TV series. Video games almost always limit you to one, or very few points of view and you constantly need to make room for gameplay/player interaction, regardless of whether or not the story asks for it.

Think of it this way: when was The Last of Us' story at it's best? When did it really tug on your heart strings and make you ponder the human condition? Was it when you shot down grunt #56 with a shotgun? Was it when you crafted your shiny new scope? Probably not. I feel very confident in saying that we all agree that the answer is "during the cutscenes", i.e when it was a movie. The story in this video game was at it's best when it was no longer a video game.

I understand that you disagree, and I would love to be proven wrong(I don't mean that sarcastically). How exactly does The Last of Us prove me wrong? In what way did that story benefit from being a game?
Click to expand...

I dont think you are right nor wrong. Its all about the player and his/her experience with the game.
 
This and U4 are the type of visuals I expected this gen. It's taken a while but it's nice to see some devs really push the power of PS4. 3rd party games look so underwhelming in comparison.
 
Nafai1123 said:
Yes...it is strange they've been continuously "surprised"
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Absolutely not. People that are complaining do not complain about the graphics or the steampunk setting, they are complaining about the gameplay which is something RAD has been (and remains) very shy about. After several trailers, we only have some short gameplay sequences showing your typical TPS cover based shootbangs. This is disappointing especially when the game comes after Bioshock Infinite for instance. This game also has great art, "steampunk sort of" premise and it's a high profile TPS. Do you think The Order's gameplay we saw so far can even compare? It seems to me RAD isn't even trying.
 
MercuryLS said:
It's taken a while but it's nice to see some devs really push the power of PS4.
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Taken a while as in...less than a year? We've known games looking like this would be coming for quite a while now.

Edit-I love this strawman argument that we're "surprised" the game is looking like a super generic game with some steam punk on top. I think the TPS genre has been horribly underused. You can do so much with a TPS and instead we get the same shit every year.
 
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