Support NeoGAF

[Ricky_R]

So I uploaded a video of The Order on Youtube, the airship section. Today I got a copyright claim based on the background music, which apparently is:

Jason Graves-The Darkness Within

Jason Graves-In the Darkest Hour

CHOPIN FREDERIC ARR GEORGE WILSON-WALTZ No 1 Op 64 THE MINUTE WALTZ- 615 Music

So, what to do?

Change the tempo of the song slightly and it will bypass it. I think...

 

[MegaSackman]

I feel like the musical score in the game doesn't get enough praise. They absolutely nailed the tone of the score in every encounter and sequence imo. The bellowing depth of it while in the hospital, the epic feeling while on the Agamemnon, the sombering, sorrowful tracks

Spoiler

while Galahad had those guilty charges read against him

and the ending scene...really hit me hard emotionally.

The dialogues and the last shot of the ending were amazing, in differents circumstances would have been incredible.

 

[Primeau31]

Question. So I got to chapter 6 on Friday but due to my wife missing out on some moments we reloaded and start back at the hospital. Now maybe I'm imaginging things, but during the Lycan fight, I swear the first time, we didn't pick up the context sensative pipe on the floor. I don't even remember getting a prompt for it honestly. Am I going crazy or is that actually optional?

i guess its optional - i used it in the hospital fight one time, but going through the fight a second time, the icon was there, but the triangle button icon indicating its ready to pick up never appeared. drove me absolutely insane. why even do that if its optional arrrggggh ugh nevermind. game was alright i guess.

 

[nib95]

Got the dynamic theme. Very cool. The Knight's Theme plays in the background too!

Is this still available to get via the site? I explored all the parts to the site but never got a code. Seems to be a US only thing.

 

[Ricky_R]

Are cut-scenes unlocked once you finish the game?

 

[Wakka212]

i guess its optional - i used it in the hospital fight one time, but going through the fight a second time, the icon was there, but the triangle button icon indicating its ready to pick up never appeared. drove me absolutely insane. why even do that if its optional arrrggggh ugh nevermind. game was alright i guess.

If you use the left stick to move your character around the environment until he's over the particular item, the icon pops up.

 

[Elitist1945]

Is that a paid one? Or the free one that you get when you do the online thing?

I paid for this one. Was 2.99 I believe. I wanted the Airship one but it turns out it was a digital pre-order exclusive.

 

[Lord Morairty007]

I beaten it. I love it! Great story, awesome music and is the best looking game I seen besides AC Unity on MAX on PC. I hope they do a sequel!

 

[SlasherJPC]

Are cut-scenes unlocked once you finish the game?

Sorta of. Since you have chapter select. You can pick to start from any cutscene/moment.

 

[nycgamer4ever]

I will like to make one purchase? Do we have a deal

Check your pm.

 

[hydruxo]

Is this still available to get via the site? I explored all the parts to the site but never got a code. Seems to be a US only thing.

The free one is the Mayfair theme.

Spoiler

You know the start of the second chapter where Galahad is standing on the balcony overlooking the United India House?

That's what the Mayfair theme looks like. Not sure if it's still available on the site though, it might be.

The one in the picture above is the Whitechapel theme, which is $1.99 or 2.99 I believe on PSN.

 

[Ricky_R]

Sorta of. Since you have chapter select. You can pick to start from any cutscene/moment.

Yeah, that I noticed. No cut-scenes only unlock then... Bummer.

 

[geminibros]

What are your thoughts on the discussions and impressions revolving around the game, and are you surprised your review and score is such an outlier, not only compared to the rest of the press, but considerably more so comparative to ordinary gamers? I'll be honest, a 2/10 score is something I usually expect to see set aside for broken, buggy, unpolished and near unplayable games, but having played through The Order nearly twice, I can safely say it is none of the aforementioned things. Quite the opposite.

To be honest, I haven't participated in many discussions about the game, and I haven't read much yet. I try to isolate myself from the blogosphere about a specific game when I'm reviewing it.

I can understand your read on the score (it's actually a 1/5 on DT, but Google shows it as 2/10 for some reason). I've actually had a few people level the same concern: A score that low is usually reserved for a broken game. And you're right: The Order is not broken (in my own experience). It works, in the sense that it is relatively bug-free and stable.

I have two responses to that. First: Every site uses a different rubric for determining scores, and every writer views scores differently. There's a years-long debate in the gaming world about how similar scores tend to be between different outlets. The "echo chamber," as many refer to it. I certainly don't sit down with the aim of delivering an outlier score, but I always like seeing them (from my own reviews and others) once a game is out and criticism starts to surface. I wish more sites relied on differing rubrics. I've never been a fan of the way Metacritic distills a galaxy of diverse, often diverging opinions down into a single two-digit number. So much nuance lost. Reviews don't offer a summary breakdown of what's right and wrong as it applies to all gamers; they're a starting point for healthy, preferably civil discourse.

Personally, I think it's a greater crime for a game to deliver a derivative, uninspired, and wholly unoriginal experience. Broken as it was at launch, at least AC Unity pushed in the direction of some new ideas (IMO). The Order felt like a purely derivative work. Nothing felt original or fresh to me.

Not everyone had the same experience. I think it's awesome that people are enjoying it, truly. It's not for me and it's not something I'd recommend, but that doesn't mean my opinion invalidates someone else's right to have fun with the game.

Did that answer your question? I'm totally happy to chat about this at length. I take great pleasure in writing reviews, and I put a lot of thought into what I'm going to say about a particular thing. So I've got plenty more I could say w/r/t my process if there's anything else I can clarify.

 

[geminibros]

What are your thoughts on the discussions and impressions revolving around the game, and are you surprised your review and score is such an outlier, not only compared to the rest of the press, but considerably more so comparative to ordinary gamers? I'll be honest, a 2/10 score is something I usually expect to see set aside for broken, buggy, unpolished and near unplayable games, but having played through The Order nearly twice, I can safely say it is none of the aforementioned things. Quite the opposite.

Oh, I forgot to add my second point: Digital Trends doesn't actually have a formalized review scale that explains what our scores mean. That's a problem. It's something we are actively working on. I almost quit my job last year over a disagreement with higher ups who wanted to change the score on something. It's a situation that needs to change. And it's one that is changing. All of editorial met last Friday to take the first steps toward hammering out a codified scale. Haters still gonna hate when they don't agree with a review, but at least we'll be able to point them in the direction of a formalized explanation.

 

[Naeval]

Nice OT, Skux

 

[shinobi602]

Oh, I forgot to add my second point: Digital Trends doesn't actually have a formalized review scale that explains what our scores mean. That's a problem. It's something we are actively working on. I almost quit my job last year over a disagreement with higher ups who wanted to change the score on something. It's a situation that needs to change. And it's one that is changing. All of editorial met last Friday to take the first steps toward hammering out a codified scale. Haters still gonna hate when they don't agree with a review, but at least we'll be able to point them in the direction of a formalized explanation.

You wrote the review for Digital Trends?

 

[nib95]

To be honest, I haven't participated in many discussions about the game, and I haven't read much yet. I try to isolate myself from the blogosphere about a specific game when I'm reviewing it.

I can understand your read on the score (it's actually a 1/5 on DT, but Google shows it as 2/10 for some reason). I've actually had a few people level the same concern: A score that low is usually reserved for a broken game. And you're right: The Order is not broken (in my own experience). It works, in the sense that it is relatively bug-free and stable.

I have two responses to that. First: Every site uses a different rubric for determining scores, and every writer views scores differently. There's a years-long debate in the gaming world about how similar scores tend to be between different outlets. The "echo chamber," as many refer to it. I certainly don't sit down with the aim of delivering an outlier score, but I always like seeing them (from my own reviews and others) once a game is out and criticism starts to surface. I wish more sites relied on differing rubrics. I've never been a fan of the way Metacritic distills a galaxy of diverse, often diverging opinions down into a single two-digit number. So much nuance lost. Reviews don't offer a summary breakdown of what's right and wrong as it applies to all gamers; they're a starting point for healthy, preferably civil discourse.

Personally, I think it's a greater crime for a game to deliver a derivative, uninspired, and wholly unoriginal experience. Broken as it was at launch, at least AC Unity pushed in the direction of some new ideas (IMO). The Order felt like a purely derivative work. Nothing felt original or fresh to me.

Not everyone had the same experience. I think it's awesome that people are enjoying it, truly. It's not for me and it's not something I'd recommend, but that doesn't mean my opinion invalidates someone else's right to have fun with the game.

Did that answer your question? I'm totally happy to chat about this at length. I take great pleasure in writing reviews, and I put a lot of thought into what I'm going to say about a particular thing. So I've got plenty more I could say w/r/t my process if there's anything else I can clarify.

It did, sort of ha. But to be honest I expected this to be one of the biggest complaints towards the game, even before it released, not that I agree with the sentiment mind. I actually think the game, at least from a narrative, world, pacing and lore perspective, is quite original, and non derivative. Gameplay mechanics wise however, it is certainly more by the books. Your answer however begs the question, do you consider innovation and/or originality a necessity in order for a game to be considered in much more positive light?

 

[Forsete]

You remove the music or remove the video. Unless it lets you still have it up while giving them the clicks persay. Welcome to youtube.

Change the tempo of the song slightly and it will bypass it. I think...

Annoying, as it is straight capture via the Share feature. If a game is going to have copyright issues it would be better to just mute the music like in GTA V. :/

Oh well, I'll just let them be.

 

[Primeau31]

If you use the left stick to move your character around the environment until he's over the particular item, the icon pops up.

i kept walking in circles and it never popped up maybe it was bugged bc like i said the first time i ran that fight i did get it to appear

 

[polarizeme]

Just finished the game. Final thoughts.

Sigh.

Here's what the game does right:

- Atmosphere. Few games nail the sense of place and time as well as The Order: 1886. The superb visuals, combined with the splendid art direction, do the best job I've seen yet this generation of putting you square in a place and time. It's absolutely phenomenal, from both an artistic and technical standpoint. RAD deserves accolades for that.

- Sound is phenomenal. Jason Graves' soundtrack hits all the right notes. Very ominous, appropriately foreboding at times, emotional at others. Good stuff. The sound design in the game is really good too. Gunshots sound so, so satisfying. Voice actors are splendid across the board.

- Galahad. I love this dude. I hope we get another Order game simply cause I wanna spend more time with Galahad. Fantastic performance on the part of Steve West.

- Very, very deliberate game design. This is a plus and minus. I do appreciate that what they were genuinely trying is a truly cinematic game. It's difficult for games to do good, slow dialogue scenes, and cut scenes are the only alternative. To The Order's credit, they are well-handled and directed.

Here's what the game does wrong:

- The ending. In that, it does not have an ending. It is essentially (massive spoilers):

Spoiler

the ending of Old Yeller and then cut to black.

It leaves multiple plot threads and sub-plots in the air. This is how you DO NOT HANDLE the ending of the first game in a new IP ever. For a game and a team that tries to make their game this cinematic and puts this much effort into creating a new and unique universe and put this much effort in the writing, it is just incredibly baffling that they would end it like this. They ended it at the fucking second act! I was fucking livid, especially because I was genuinely loving the story and characters up to this point. But after

Spoiler

Chapter XVI

, it starts feeling like character assassinations and random plot shit out of nowhere. What the hell, RAD? How'd you drop the ball so fucking hard here when you were doing such a fantastic job with the tale before that?

You should have followed the Christopher Nolan Narrative Rule: Throw every good idea you have for your story onto the screen. Blow your load. Don't save anything for the sequel in that way.

- Level design leaves much to be desired. Fuck shotgunners. There needs to be a better way to integrate narrative cutscenes, QTEs, and gunplay/traversal/exploration. The dialogue heavy narrative scenes are necessary to tell the story, I definitely think so, but there must be another way.

- Too much squandered potential when it comes to the setting. Lycan encounters are not interesting, didn't use the Tesla tech as well as they should have, branching melee felt more like an after thought, etc.

- Stealth levels are stuck in 2003.

So...

Look, I appreciate this game as an experiment in narrative, cause that's what it essentially is. It's a narrative experiment embedded in a tech demo. It impressed the hell out of me in a lot of ways. But boy, that ending really left a sour taste in my mouth. It's very slow, very deliberately paced, which I like. I think there is a way to make a game slow and deliberately paced without having to resort to this many QTEs and cutscenes in the middle of gameplay though. I loved the slow dialogue scenes, but if you're in the middle of the level, I saw no place here where you couldn't keep control of Galahad as it happened.

That said, QTEs aren't a bad thing. They can be used effectively.

Would I play a sequel to The Order? In a fucking heartbeat. And I don't regret purchasing and playing this game. I see potential in the future.

But yeah, the ending was so crap. They have a great base here, but they need more care with how they handle these characters in the next one, flesh out proper arcs and resolutions. Better level design and traversal/exploration too.

I agree with pretty much 99% of this. Arguments and trolling nonsense hopefully avoided, but I can't understand the rabid vitriol being doled out for this game. The reviews I'm seeing everywhere by players and review sites just don't seem to line up with the game I played.

I spent maybe a total of 30 minutes derping around and looking at the pretty; played on hard, auto-aim off, didn't bother looking for most investigation items and it was a solid 10-12 hour playthrough. I honestly can't see how people are enjoying blasting through this in 6 hours or whatever the claims are. I loved just spending time going through the crafted world far too much to rush from point A to point B and joylessly chug through it.

The attention to detail, both audibly and visually, is fucking staggering. The lighting, the detail in materials... everything was handled with such precision and care. Which is another reason the end of the game is so infuriating.

I have some gameplay nitpicks, for sure. Forced weapon holstering, camera bias being off by default, the reeeeeeeally strange lack of character model reflections (especially when the rest of reflections and lighting are so beautifully crafted), etc. My main gripe, though, is that ending. DAT ENDING.

Leave room for sequels. Sure. Whatever. Who cares. But to so blatantly leave everything with such a lack of conclusion is simply bewildering. It's not even like a "Children of Men" ending where everything is done and it just ends and leaves some stuff for you to imagine or think about... it just STOPS. That's the one big, huge, glaring, ugly mark against it that is utterly indefensible. Even still, I loved everything, nitpicks aside, up to that very moment. Which, I think, is why it's so much more frustrating.

I think I also feel like people seem to be confused about what the game ever intended to offer. From day one, this game felt more like a presentation of a rails game to tell a story than anything else. I'm not sure why everyone is so up in arms that it's EXACTLY what it ended up being (save for, again, the ending... or lack thereof).

Whatever. People can say what they want, but I'd play a sequel to this in a heartbeat, even if just to get drawn into the amazing world that RAD created for us. Maybe also to hope that this story has an end somewhere. Haha.

Also, at running the risk of sounding like I'm baiting for arguments:
The top complaint I've heard every day since the release of the new consoles is, "GIVE US MOAR GRAFFIX! WHERE ARE THE BETTER NEXT GEN GRAFFIX?!?!?!"

Well, here they are. And everyone's screaming and giving them a 3/10 or whatever. So...

 

[Loudninja]

Some sales.

According to Sony Spain software product manager Ángel Fernández, The Order 1886 has sold around 15,000 units in Spain. Over 20,000 including digital sales and Portugal.

https://twitter.com/angelufs/status/569831087804944384

 

[RoboPlato]

Some sales.

Is that good? I don't know much about the gaming market in Spain.

 

[benny_a]

For talk about reviews from professional outlets could you guys please use the official review thread?

 

[Anung]

Jason Graves did the soundtrack for this? That explains why its so good then.

 

[bananafactory]

Is that good? I don't know much about the gaming market in Spain.

Did a quick search, there was 360k PS4s sold in Spain as of October.

20k would be around a 5% attach rate, not bad for a new IP from a relatively unknown console dev. For comparison, TLOU on PS3 had around a 10% attach rate.

5% attach worldwide would mean 1 million + sales for The Order, which I think would be a decent start. Though I'm sure Sony (and Pachter) would have liked more.

 

[Shadow_FFVI]

Well, RAD already bested ND when it comes to graphics and gunplay, which is pretty impressive coming from a handheld studio on their first next-gen attempt.

All they have to do is get the pacing & gameplay systems better defined

I don't think it's quite as simple. Naughty Dog does all the little things right, which gives us a final product that is more than the sum of it's parts. RAD still needs to figure out two huge key elements. As you said pacing needs a ton of work and gameplay need to be better implemented so it feels more natural.

After that it's all the small things that make ND one of the best developers of today.

 

[geminibros]

It did, sort of ha. But to be honest I expected this to be one of the biggest complaints towards the game, even before it released. Your answer however begs the question, do you consider innovation and/or originality a necessity in order for a game to be considered in much more positive light?

That's a tough question to answer. I think it's possible to build a completely derivative experience that still works as a fun time, though I'm struggling to come up with any examples. Even games like Call of Duty or Madden, which don't change a whole lot from year to year, tend to push for some new angle or another. Games like those are built to rely on returning audiences though. New games, new IP, I think it's fair to expect some fresh thinking.

I mean, look at Ryse. Another heavily story-driven game. Lots of QTEs. But I liked Ryse a whole lot, and a big part of that had to do with the fact that the QTEs in that game had an interesting mechanic tied to them. Using the D-pad, you could make it so that a successful execution QTE restored your health, or boosted your power in some way. That's an interesting take, IMO. It's a familiar mechanic, but presented in a way that really forces you to think about how you're engaging with it. I'm not suggesting that Ryse is the best game evarrrrr, but that's one of the reasons I liked it more than I did The Order.

I don't think every game NEEDS to innovate, but I prefer to see some hint of original thinking in anything I play. Ultimately, The Order left me cold. The story failed to grab me and there was literally nothing in the play that drove me to keep coming back for more (other than the need to finish the game for my review, of course).

 

[ironcreed]

I enjoyed the gunplay so much that I am already wanting to go back in and play it again. Cutscene and quick time event overload be damned. It's still an extremely polished and fun game.

 

[geminibros]

You wrote the review for Digital Trends?

Yup

 

[therealminime]

The way the light reflects off of the graphite from the pencil work on the paper blew my mind. Was able to get a direct feed screenshot with my capture card. Amazing.

 

[maverick40]

Hi DevilFox. I'm Adam Rosenberg, Digital Trends' gaming and movies editor, and the author of that unfortunate tweet.

So. You're right. I shouldn't have tweeted what I did. As one friend put it quite succinctly, it was in poor taste. I honestly wrote it with no ill intent; it was just a jokey comment between friends. But I should have given more thought to the fact that Twitter is a public forum before I said it. That's a very easy thing to forget. I really didn't care for the game, for an assortment of reasons, but it's one thing to write a scathing review and quite another to -- by all outward appearances -- take pleasure in someone else's misery.

I made a regrettable choice and I paid a price for that choice in the appropriately angry response it elicited. All I can do from here is take the whole incident as a lesson and strive to do better in the future.

Yeah that is cool and all but why did every professional journalist hop on this hate wagon after the reviews dropped. Why this game specifically?

 

[shinobi602]

Yup

Edit: I see it was already addressed anyway.

 

[Omnistalgic]

Yup

No disrespect, but it was a very poor review. You sounded more like you were making fun of the game than being critical of it lol. You should have given it to someone more objective.

 

[geminibros]

I'm not going to derail this thread any longer as its focus should be on the game's merits but I found this to be unequivocally unprofessional and made me lose a lot of respect:

I won't comment any more on it anyway.

You know what? You're absolutely right. I was wrong to tweet that. I tried to reply in another thread that brought it up, but said thread is closed. So I'm glad you mentioned it here.

It was not a good thing for me to do. As much as the comment was meant to be some banter among friends, I too quickly forgot that Twitter is also a public forum. And what plays as a joke among friends can very easily be read by an outsider as me celebrating the failure of others. That is not at all what I'm about as a person, and I honestly regret making such a tasteless statement in a public space. Everyone who gave me crap for saying it was absolutely right. I can't take it back, but I can at least take the whole experience as an important lesson so as not to make the same mistake twice.

 

[viveks86]

No disrespect, but it was a very poor review. You sounded more like you were making fun of the game than being critical of it lol. You should have given it to someone more objective.

You know what? You're absolutely right. I was wrong to tweet that. I tried to reply in another thread that brought it up, but said thread is closed. So I'm glad you mentioned it here.
It was not a good thing for me to do. As much as the comment was meant to be some banter among friends, I too quickly forgot that Twitter is also a public forum. And what plays as a joke among friends can very easily be read by an outsider as me celebrating the failure of others. That is not at all what I'm about as a person, and I honestly regret making such a tasteless statement in a public space. Everyone who gave me crap for saying it was absolutely right. I can't take it back, but I can at least take the whole experience as an important lesson so as not to make the same mistake twice.

I'd suggest that this continues in the review thread. Reviewing the reviewer is explosive material that can overwhelm game discussions

 

[FairXchange]

The way the light reflects off of the graphite from the pencil work on the paper blew my mind. Was able to get a direct feed screenshot with my capture card. Amazing.

The game is just brimming with awesome flourishes like this, I really appreciate it too.

 

[Mifune]

How in the world is the review thread still active? Do I even want to know?

20k in Spain sounds pretty decent to me. Tops in the UK, too. Doesn't tell us much but it's a good start.

 

[shinobi602]

You know what? You're absolutely right. I was wrong to tweet that. I tried to reply in another thread that brought it up, but said thread is closed. So I'm glad you mentioned it here.

It was not a good thing for me to do. As much as the comment was meant to be some banter among friends, I too quickly forgot that Twitter is also a public forum. And what plays as a joke among friends can very easily be read by an outsider as me celebrating the failure of others. That is not at all what I'm about as a person, and I honestly regret making such a tasteless statement in a public space. Everyone who gave me crap for saying it was absolutely right. I can't take it back, but I can at least take the whole experience as an important lesson so as not to make the same mistake twice.

Well, I highly disagree with your assessment of the game in your review but thanks for showing humility. Cheers for that.

 

[Omnistalgic]

I'd suggest that this continues in the review thread. Reviewing the reviewer is explosive material that can overwhelm game discussions

copy that..I agree, back to the Order. I would welcome a sequel with open arms...

Also, DS is reporting its doing well in Japan at number 4 with the top retailer and it debuted number 1 in UK. Might be a million seller after all.

 

[nib95]

That's a tough question to answer. I think it's possible to build a completely derivative experience that still works as a fun time, though I'm struggling to come up with any examples. Even games like Call of Duty or Madden, which don't change a whole lot from year to year, tend to push for some new angle or another. Games like those are built to rely on returning audiences though. New games, new IP, I think it's fair to expect some fresh thinking.

I mean, look at Ryse. Another heavily story-driven game. Lots of QTEs. But I liked Ryse a whole lot, and a big part of that had to do with the fact that the QTEs in that game had an interesting mechanic tied to them. Using the D-pad, you could make it so that a successful execution QTE restored your health, or boosted your power in some way. That's an interesting take, IMO. It's a familiar mechanic, but presented in a way that really forces you to think about how you're engaging with it. I'm not suggesting that Ryse is the best game evarrrrr, but that's one of the reasons I liked it more than I did The Order.

I don't think every game NEEDS to innovate, but I prefer to see some hint of original thinking in anything I play. Ultimately, The Order left me cold. The story failed to grab me and there was literally nothing in the play that drove me to keep coming back for more (other than the need to finish the game for my review, of course).

Fair enough. I appreciate you taking the time to respond, and it's certainly interesting to gauge your thoughts.

I think for me personally, RAD's efforts in world building were stand out. You mentioned that you felt the different areas lacked life, but personally I thought they were incredibly well realised with an unprecedented attention to detail. Nothing in the games world felt artificial or false, the way environments and locales do in most games. From East London (where I was based for a good portion of my life), through to Mayfair, the air ship, The Order council, hospital, underground station, Tesla's lab, docks etc. Even random rooms had more realism and sense of place than those of most games (eg the lighting, carpets, wooden flooring, ornaments, vase, flowers, paintings, wallaper etc). I know in your review you mentioned some of these areas felt lifeless, but I very much disagree on that. Only negative I felt was the lack of expanse and explorability of certain locations, and the lack of NPC's, which I put down to the fact that there were werewolf's running amok, and likely heightened public fear.

Regarding the gunplay, which I know you also mentioned you found unoriginal and boring. I think it's easy to pigeon whole games of like genre's as derivative because they offer similar mechanics, but the truth of the matter is, these things are far more nuanced than given credit for. The Last of Us, Uncharted, The Order 1886 and Gears of War are all third person cover based shooters, but they all also have very different feeling and controlling gunplay. Things like the sense of weight, amount of recoil, kickback, individuality of weapons, hit detection, hit to kill times, movement speed, aim assist etc, these all make a big difference. And in that sense I liked The Orders more grounded, realistic and weighty feel to the gunplay, even if mechanically and on paper, it may seem derivative as you put it.

But anyway, I digress. I think the point I was making is that the game certainly has many flaws, but I'm not sure some of yours are one's I'd necessarily agree with.

 

[geminibros]

I'd suggest that this continues in the review thread. Reviewing the reviewer is explosive material that can overwhelm game discussions

Hold up, you're conflating two separate things.

I regret a tweet that I posted, but I don't regret any part of my review.

 

[Sean*O]

Got my copy yesterday, now just need to find time to play it.

 

[PBY]

Yeah I'd say the general impressions put this game at 7-7.5/10. That feels about right to me as well...below a 6.5-7 seems ridiculous to me.

You liked it at a 7- but people who like it a tad less than you and give it a point less in some imaginary scale are ridiculous?
Stil have yet to beat it but I have to disagree w you there.

 

[Marvel]

 

[PBY]

^niceeeee

 

[Lord Error]

After some time of playing it, I can safely say that I've reached a point in the game where I can form a bit more coherent opinion about it.

For me, the absolutely most important aspect about this kind of game is whether it makes me want to come back and play more the next night (approx 2 hours a night is all the time I can spend playing games on TV nowadays). Aside from Resogun that I play all the time, the last two games I finished were Metro 2033 Redux, and Life is Strange Ep1. With Metro, it took me forever to finish the game because it wasn't drawing me in to play it the next day. I still can't quite articulate why, but the game simply wasn't interesting enough to me. With Life is Strange on the other hand, I couldn't wait to continue playing it. Which is also absolutely the case with The Order. I really can't wait to sit down again and play more, and I think it's for these reasons:

- I can't wait to use Thermite Rifle and Arc Gun some more. Thermite Rifle is possibly my favorite weapon ever made in any game. It's such a shame they let you use it for so short in Ch3. There was this whole lengthy fight in Whitechappel where I would have loved to use it to rain the fire from above onto the enemy, but alas, the gun came into play after that fight, and I got to use it for just a few minutes before it was over. That fight where you use it should have had a wave after wave of enemies! Not the Whitechappel fight before it! Such a weird and obvious oversight. It was so clear they should have let you use it a bit more, and then the enemy with the same gun appears (and they should have also made sure he doesn't go down so easily!). This is obviously where my biggest problem with the game is. Its encounter design so far leaves a lot to be desired, and what's more frustrating, the oversights are so simple that I feel that with like a day of extra work they could have improved things like just adding more waves of enemies in that thermite rifle battle.

- I can't wait to see more of the story and characters interacting. This is done really well in the game, even if characters themselves are not grabbing me as immediately interesting as characters from ND games for example.

- Can't wait to simply see and explore more environments, especially dark interiors like the whole Hospital location. Even the simplest rooms in this game look so detailed and amazing, it's like walking through a visual masterpiece that just keeps giving.

Btw - After playing it for three nights (approx 6 hours) I'm only at the very beginning of Ch5, which is not surprising to me, as I'm always going very slowly though games where I enjoy the atmosphere. I think this kind of game really works its magic when you play it at a relaxed pace.

 

[Marvel]

^niceeeee

I refused to use the guides too, I just wanted any excuse to loiter and gawp at the graphics plus new photo opportunities, lol.

A simple yet fun plat. I am happy.

 

[geminibros]

Fair enough. I appreciate you taking the time to respond, and it's certainly interesting to gauge your thoughts.

I think for me personally, RAD's efforts in world building were stand out. You mentioned that you felt the different areas lacked life, but personally I thought they were incredibly well realised with an unprecedented attention to detail. Nothing in the games world felt artificial or false, the way environments and locales do in most games. From East London (where I was based for a good portion of my life), through to Mayfair, the air ship, The Order council, hospital, underground station, Tesla's lab, docks etc. I know in your review you mentioned some of these areas felt lifeless, but I very much disagree on that. Only negative I felt was the expanse of the earlier locations, and the lack of NPC's, which I put down to the fact that there were werewolf's running amok.

Regarding the gunplay, which I know you also mentioned you found boring. I think it's easy to pigeon whole games of like genre's as derivative because they offer similar mechanics, but the truth of the matter is, these things are far more nuanced than given credit for. The Last of Us, Uncharted, The Order 1886 and Gears of War are all third person cover based shooters, but they all also have very different feeling and controlling gunplay. Things like the sense of weight, amount of recoil, kickback, individuality of weapons, hit detection, hit to kill times etc, these all make a big difference. And in that sense I liked The Orders more grounded, realistic and weighty feel to the gunplay, even if mechanically and on paper, it may seem derivative as you put it.

But anyway, I digress. I think the point I was making is that the game certinly has many flaws, but I'm not sure some of yours are one's I'd necessarily agree with.

I agree with you about how nuanced gunplay can be from game to game. For example: I've never been a fan of how guns feel in Uncharted, but I was pretty okay with them in The Last of Us. I think The Order's gunplay has some heft to it that's mildly satisfying. But every encounter is just so bottlenecked. There's no real strategic gameplay; you just pop into the first cover you come across and shoot when heads pop up. Sometimes you advance. That's not a flaw in my personal strategy, it's a flaw (I think) in the design of the combat arenas. They're built to be shooting galleries, not dynamic combat spaces.

Fwiw, I'm a fan of RAD's earlier work and I do think there's promise in The Order's basic premise. I was pulling for this game to succeed, and while it ultimately disappointed me, I'll be pulling for RAD to extract constructive feedback from all the negative criticism and hopefully deliver a sequel that succeeds. Assassin's Creed could have been a lot better, but then AC2 came along and blew us all away. These things happen.

Thanks right back at you for taking the time to chat.

 

[AmaterasuOni]

Leave room for sequels. Sure. Whatever. Who cares. But to so blatantly leave everything with such a lack of conclusion is simply bewildering.

I believe RAD once said it's a trilogy. This was just the epilogue of a bigger game. Of course they leave everything hanging.

 

[hydruxo]

For "a derivative, uninspired, and wholly unoriginal experience", I sure did enjoy the shit out of the game. But everyone is welcome to their opinions.

This game didn't deserve a 1/5 though.