Support NeoGAF

[Shaneus]

PAPA 16 OT is up! Suggestions not only welcomed, but encouraged



Edit:

Haha, wow!

I just got back from a 17-day drive-around the Southwest with only my PSVita for pinball. I get back on my PS3 and... wow. The difference. I knew the PSVita wasn't obviously up to the PS3's quality but it's stark once you don't see one for a while and get back to it. Still, hard to beat the portability -- was great for the vacation.

I did make it to the Pinball Hall of Fame and had a blast. My blog for that day is at http://www.bigweathergames.com/?p=2091. Note: I write these vacation blogs late at night when we finally get to the hotel room and the family has gone to bed. So they ain't exactly amazing prose. If anyone has any questions about the PHoF or any of my trips (done a ton of them in the last four years, all blogged, covering most of the country) just let me know!

(mostly quoting so people see it)
My one question: Is it worth flying half-way across the world to see the PHoF?

PS. That's a rad little photo blog you've got there. Always encouraging to see kids taking a shine to pinball, even at such a young age. I have faith in future generations yet

 

[BigWeather]

My one question: Is it worth flying half-way across the world to see the PHoF?

PS. That's a rad little photo blog you've got there. Always encouraging to see kids taking a shine to pinball, even at such a young age. I have faith in future generations yet

If your intent was to go to the PHoF and only the PHoF I'd say no. That isn't to knock it in the slightest -- I can't think of any one attraction that'd be worth paying that kind of money to see. On the other hand, if you were to turn it into even a week's vacation it'd be totally worth it. Use Las Vegas as your starting / ending point and you'd get two opportunities to visit the PHoF. With the remainder of the time I'd do Zion National Park, Bryce Canyon National Park, and the north rim of the Grand Canyon -- very doable in four to five days (a map here of the route I'd likely do: http://goo.gl/maps/NL2WQ). Now that'd be an excellent trip, those three parks are amazing (I visited all three on my trip so if you want to see pics they're there).

I was very encouraged by the crowd at the PHoF -- easily 50, probably 100 tops, and very diverse. Friendly environment too. Note that it is basically a warehouse type environment filled with tables -- no frills or anything. While that takes a hit on the nostalgia (I miss the neon, and purple carpet, etc.) it is for a good cause: limits the expenses and maximizes the charitable aspect.

I'm very happy my daughter has fallen in love with pinball -- she's playing Monster Bash and entering the code for Lyman's Lament as I type, lol -- we compete against each other for the precious four or five slots on the high score list every day. I was surprised that my son, who I thought couldn't really care less about pinball, started really enjoying Attack From Mars on the Vita. Now it could've been just road boredom, we'll see...

I've got to make it to Pennsylvania and PAPA. It is the third of the three holy grails for me -- I got to Funspot in New Hampshire in 2011 (blog entry at http://www.bigweathergames.com/?p=612) and PHoF last week. PAPA is the closest to me (only about eight hours drive and a gorgeous one at that) so I have no excuse now.

 

[twinturbo2]

So, I'm putting together an OT for the tournament, and in looking for videos to put in it, I stumbled across this... ths most bullshit save you'll EVER see. Watch the right outlane from where I linked it.

What a bastard.

It's a little hard to see, what happened?

 

[jvm]

It's a little hard to see, what happened?

If it's what I saw earlier when I followed the link, the ball is about 1cm down the right outlane and he jiggles the table and the ball wiggles back up out of the lane. Happens about halfway through the video?

 

[twinturbo2]

If it's what I saw earlier when I followed the link, the ball is about 1cm down the right outlane and he jiggles the table and the ball wiggles back up out of the lane. Happens about halfway through the video?

So, like Evo Moment #37, that awesome?

 

[Shaneus]

http://www.twitch.tv/papatvpinball

TWENTY MINUTES!!!!

I had no idea how well the timing worked for Australians... it's almost 8:30 in the morning here. Breakfast and pinball, a winning combination.

 

[Raitaro]

Sorry for the short detour, but I visited the UK Pinball Part today in Daventry, UK, and now I REALLY want Fish Tales, Black Knight 2000, High Speed II: The Getaway, F-14 Tomcat and other Williams classics available in Pinball Arcade. What great and energetic tables!

Odd that Farsight chooses to either go for expensive licensed tables like T2 and Twilight Zone (though this must help them with gaining visibility probably) or older ones like Space Shuttle, but not for - in my eyes easier achievable - tables such as the ones above from Williams that are interesting but original IP's as well. Oh well, I'll have to be patient and hope for the best I suppose.

(Oh, and while I'm listing favorites: please release Junk Yard as well Farsight!)

 

[Shaneus]

I had my conversions wrong, guys... it's three hours away still :/

Sorry for the short detour, but I visited the UK Pinball Part today in Daventry, UK, and now I REALLY want Fish Tales, Black Knight 2000, High Speed II: The Getaway, F-14 Tomcat and other Williams classics available in Pinball Arcade. What great and energetic tables!

Odd that Farsight chooses to either go for expensive licensed tables like T2 and Twilight Zone (though this must help them with gaining visibility probably) or older ones like Space Shuttle, but not for - in my eyes easier achievable - tables such as the ones above from Williams that are interesting but original IP's as well. Oh well, I'll have to be patient and hope for the best I suppose.

(Oh, and while I'm listing favorites: please release Junk Yard as well Farsight!)

Bolded the Steve Ritchie tables you mentioned Technically, if I just bolded "Ritchie" tables, they'd all be highlighted because Fish Tales is by Mark Ritchie (who also did Taxi).

Remember that they're only doing licensed tables via KS because they need the money for licensing. I'd be very surprised if they didn't already have most (if not all) those tables you mentioned on the cards at some stage. In particular Fish Tales, probably the biggest of all those titles. But you want the right ones, though... because I'd kill for some of those to appear.

Did you have a chance to see the Full Throttle pinball from Heighway? I believe it was supposed to have it's grand unveiling (with final artwork etc.) there. As far as pinball machines that have come out since Williams pulled the plug after P2K, it's *easily* the best machine I've seen going by the theme, layout, innovations etc. Shits all over Sterns entire recent catalogue as well as Wizard of Oz.

BTW If you want to see how positively brutal F-14 can be, watch this video from the PAPA 14 finals. It's fucking ridiculous (and IMO, a far better example of "real" pinball as opposed to more stop-and-aim titles like most Pat Lawlor-designed machines).

PS. Detour as much as you want! This thread is pretty much the catchall for general pinball news as well

Edit: The jpsalas version of the F-14 Tomcat Virtual Pinball table is surprisingly good quality. Should suffice until we get it for TPA

 

[jvm]

So we went back to the local pizza parlor and The Addams Family was replaced with Family Guy. The boys enjoyed it. Their best score was 5mm points and I had a reasonably good second game with 15mm points. Earned an extra ball and a replay on that one, which felt good.

Never played the table before, but it left the boys wanting to play more. The little mini-table was a hit (I played it during my good game) and they want to try to activate it for themselves next time we go.

 

[Shaneus]

It's on now!!!

Watch how pinball should be played. Learn. Lots.


Something else: Heighway Pinball (who are about to release Full Throttle) have just employed... DENNIS FUCKING NORDMAN.

Holy shit. If they got Steve Ritchie I'd be in heaven.

 

[twinturbo2]

Is Dennis on twitter? I need to ask him about the gold rush multiball in Whitewater.

 

[Shaneus]

CENTAUR NOW STREAMING

Fake edit: Nup, gawn. Looks chunky and meaty as hell compared to the newer Stern tables (and to a lesser extent, even 90s Williams DMD tables).

 

[Vyse24]

UPDATE: A representative for Microsoft only had this to say: "We have not announced any changes to our publishing policy for Xbox 360. We look forward to sharing more about self-publishing on Xbox One at Gamescom."

Farsight lead designer Bobby King told Gamasutra, "Sorry, but we cannot confirm independent publishing on 360. We are hopeful that we can bring the Pinball Arcade back to the 360 ourselves and apologize if our statement was taken to mean anything different."

We're continuing to follow this story.

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/197106/

 

[Shaneus]

I'm not surprised... I don't remember MS saying *anything* about publishing for 360, just the whole indie thing for the One. Looks like FS jumped the gun again in updating the status of the 360 one

 

[Shaneus]

Well, I don't know how I didn't know this existed, but Keith Elwin mentioned it in an interview (of which I don't know the age of, but that hardly matters):
Pinball 101 for iOS
or you can buy a DVD here.

I assume the app is just the DVD divided into segments, but for $4, I guess you can't expect too much. 50 machines filmed in it, so it should cover pretty much everything you could imagine... and at least the basics. But considering (I guess) it's like receiving tips from the current #2 (and previously, #1) PAPA world champ, why not? I'll offer impressions here in a bit. Just in the middle of a decent game of AfM

 

[Gentleman Jack]

At this point the Steam version can't be more than 2 months away so I don't even care about the 360 version anymore.

Anybody who has beta access get their T2 tables yet?

 

[Shaneus]

Holy shit. Just found out that this sucker is 12 minutes walk away from my workplace in Melbourne! Guess what I'm doing this lunchtime (and every other lunchtime from now on)

Not rapt with the LEDs, but I guess it could be worse. Still prefer the warm glow of bulbs, but given that it apparently plays okay, that's what matters. My experience with IRL TNG has been fairly limited, so playing a physical one after the iOS TPA version should blow my mind all over that particular hotel.

Edit: Not only that, but also within walking distance is a Getaway (Another Steve Ritchie!), Fish Tales (Mark Ritchie!), SWEP1 P2K (Whatever!) and an Iron Man. Oh, and Guns n Roses.
Lunchtimes just got expensive.

 

[BigWeather]

What's the trick for hitting the leftmost loop (for Harem multiball) in TotAN consistently? Last night I rescued the princess (and got 50M, double my prior high) but since I haven't completed Harem multiball I still am on standard goals -- I'm sure I missed several wizard goals. =/

 

[twinturbo2]

Acquired the PS3 standard goal set for Star Trek TNG. I think I understand the skill shots now.

 

[Shaneus]

Listening to the guys on the PAPA stream, they were talking about how you play the game shot by shot, and one of the guys (Bowen) tries as hard as possible not to look at the DMD, just the playfield (stemmed from the fact that designers seem to try and make too few lights on the playfield mean too many things... Josh Sharpe said "You should be able to tell the status of the game without having to look at the DMD"). So from that, I'm going to try TPA with the display turned off completely.

Should be an interesting experiment.

 

[Vyse24]

I actually just played a game of MM without the DMD (aside from the catapult and video mode, of course). Result? New personal best (294,754,600) and the first time I ever reached BFTK. The game feels much easier when you don't worry about timers and multipliers.

 

[Minsc]

Beta keys are being e-mailed for Steam, I got one just now! Seems to be a ~3GB install... perhaps full set of tables?

 

[Shaneus]

I actually just played a game of MM without the DMD (aside from the catapult and video mode, of course). Result? New personal best (294,754,600) and the first time I ever reached BFTK. The game feels much easier when you don't worry about timers and multipliers.

Same (although I didn't go anywhere near your score). I never noticed how much I looked at it when I should've been looking at the playfield, but I guess I do. I tried it with MM because it's the only one I'm 100% confident in the rules on, but also on AfM and beat my own high score on that (although it wasn't that high to begin with). Watching the tournament play from PAPA 16 for AfM helped a LOT as well.

Perhaps it's not getting distracted by it, but more that you learn the status of the table by forcing yourself to look at it rather than relying on the DMD.

Beta keys are being e-mailed for Steam, I got one just now! Seems to be a ~3GB install... perhaps full set of tables?

What did you put in money for? I dropped $50 on TNG and $100 on T2, choosing PC as one of my preferred platforms for each. Hopefully they flub it and we get the four original tables as well, as I believe we're only supposed to get access to the tables we backed.

I just realised that with the PC release, there's every chance we'll be able to use things like SweetFX and in the case of ATI/AMD GPU users, RadeonPro (which can implement AO on games that haven't traditionally supported it... perfect for TPA).

Why did I only hear about this once I just started work for the day? Ugh.

Edit: I only just got an email from KS about what platforms I want T2 on. Guess I'm not getting that today

Edit #2: Wait, got an email for TNG! YES! So happy Given that it's 3GB, hopefully there's a way to get hack-happy and get access to all the tables, not just the one we have access to.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

Code get!

I had to check that silly 'promotions' tab in gmail to find it :X

 

[Shaneus]

Code get!

I had to check that silly 'promotions' tab in gmail to find it :X

Same. Stupid gmail.

 

[twinturbo2]

If beta codes are going out, then the full release should be soon.

 

[BigWeather]

I was hoping to get a beta invite as I have PC as my platform of choice for the ST:TNG and TZ kickstarters, but I had switched to that from an original platform of the 360. Oh, well. Looking forward to release!

 

[Minsc]

Edit #2: Wait, got an email for TNG! YES! So happy Given that it's 3GB, hopefully there's a way to get hack-happy and get access to all the tables, not just the one we have access to.

Seems to be all access for beta, I was just trying Creature from the Black Lagoon. Very basic graphic options (really just resolution and post processing, not even AA choices), but runs at a solid 60fps as expected.

 

[plagiarize]

Seems to be all access for beta, I was just trying Creature from the Black Lagoon. Very basic graphic options (really just resolution and post processing, not even AA choices), but runs at a solid 60fps as expected.

screens? can we have them?

 

[Shaneus]

Seems to be all access for beta, I was just trying Creature from the Black Lagoon. Very basic graphic options (really just resolution and post processing, not even AA choices), but runs at a solid 60fps as expected.

What did you put in for each TZ and TNG? I honestly thought that we were only supposed to get access to the table we backed (and maybe the four base ones). Getting access to all is a bit awesome... hopefully they botched it and gave everyone full access when they shouldn't have.

How does it look? I assume at least as good as the 360/PS3 versions, but with the post-processing that was included in the iPad versions (until recently)?

Also assuming no (or as good as 360) lag?

Up to what tables do they have? Just S1 or do we get S2 like Centaur (and even F2K/GN)?

 

[Remy]

Also got my beta key today.

Table packs are available through 15 (Champions Pub/Whirlwind).

The UI is remarkably similar to the OS X version, although a little bit better - and the OS X version was pretty much a straight port of the iOS version. Graphic quality and performance is much better than that one though (and I'm on the same machine in Boot Camp).

Here's a screenshot of Centaur:
http://steamcommunity.com/id/remydwd/screenshot/594760137300779612

 

[Gentleman Jack]

The UI is remarkably similar to the OS X version, although a little bit better - and the OS X version was pretty much a straight port of the iOS version. Graphic quality and performance is much better than that one though (and I'm on the same machine in Boot Camp).

Is the annoying UI delay gone? Probably the most frustrating part of the console versions of TPA.

 

[Remy]

Is the annoying UI delay gone? Probably the most frustrating part of the console versions of TPA.

I've barely played the PS3 version but there's a little pause when you click on things that's annoying me slightly.

Here's a Steam gallery of 17 shots, including that earlier Centaur one:
http://steamcommunity.com/id/remydw...westfirst&browsefilter=myfiles&view=imagewall

 

[Vyse24]

How do the requirements look compared to FX2?

 

[jvm]

Added Steam key to my account. Too bad I'm on GNU/Linux.

 

[Shaneus]

Also got my beta key today.

Table packs are available through 15 (Champions Pub/Whirlwind).

The UI is remarkably similar to the OS X version, although a little bit better - and the OS X version was pretty much a straight port of the iOS version. Graphic quality and performance is much better than that one though (and I'm on the same machine in Boot Camp).

Here's a screenshot of Centaur:
http://steamcommunity.com/id/remydwd/screenshot/594760137300779612

Can you rehost any/all of your screens somewhere? I can't get to any at work and I'm itching to see them

Are the packs for purchase or are they all available to anyone who has beta access?

 

[Minsc]

Can you rehost any/all of your screens somewhere? I can't get to any at work and I'm itching to see them

Are the packs for purchase or are they all available to anyone who has beta access?

I don't think there's any purchasing options yet, the table pack options are grayed out:


Here are some images, I don't have AA hacked in yet though.

How do the requirements look compared to FX2?

I imagine they both run on just about anything right? If you could run a game from the last 5 years, you can probably run this I'd imagine.

 

[Shaneus]

I don't think there's any purchasing options yet, the table pack options are grayed out:


Here are some images, I don't have AA hacked in yet though.

Fantastic. A lot of stuff looks overdone (bloom much?), but prime for something like SweetFX to clean up as far as colour tweaking and (de)saturation goes. That orange filter or whatever it is looks kinda horrible.

Edit: Is the FPS in the lower corner your doing, or built into the game?

PS. Ball reflections. Love 'em.

PPS. New update out for Zaccaria Pinball on iOS, the game is... "Blackbelt":

Shame their artwork overall is so fluorescent, because otherwise their machines would look quite nice. Still, that's a rad backglass right there.

 

[The Technomancer]

Fuck yeah, got into the Steam beta. I can finally play the Twilight Zone table I kickstarted way back when now that its on a platform I can play

 

[Gentleman Jack]

Hmm, alt-tabbing out of fullscreen makes for unhappy times.

arrgh, so many bugs, but having too much fun playing pinball to reproduce them 10 times like the instructions say :X

 

[Benedict]

Somebody else but me having trouble downloading table packs on EU PSN store?
Some are unavailable even though I've purchased them and others are gone, like No Good Gofers. Some also show up as I have to buy them even though I purchased them before.

 

[Shaneus]

PSN? Who's still playing on PSN? We've all upgraded to the PC version now.

 

[Benedict]

PSN? Who's still playing on PSN? We've all upgraded to the PC version now.

You get the tables for free?

 

[Shaneus]

You get the tables for free?

As a part of the beta for backing a table during Kickstarter, it turns out we do!

Not as great as I'd hoped, though... the lighting is all over the shop, the post-processing somehow pulls back the rendering resolution for some reason and it's just kinda wonky (and the table speeds seem to vary, even on the same table. I think changing camera options or something might do it).

 

[Raitaro]

I had my conversions wrong, guys... it's three hours away still :/

Bolded the Steve Ritchie tables you mentioned Technically, if I just bolded "Ritchie" tables, they'd all be highlighted because Fish Tales is by Mark Ritchie (who also did Taxi).

Remember that they're only doing licensed tables via KS because they need the money for licensing. I'd be very surprised if they didn't already have most (if not all) those tables you mentioned on the cards at some stage. In particular Fish Tales, probably the biggest of all those titles. But you want the right ones, though... because I'd kill for some of those to appear.

Did you have a chance to see the Full Throttle pinball from Heighway? I believe it was supposed to have it's grand unveiling (with final artwork etc.) there. As far as pinball machines that have come out since Williams pulled the plug after P2K, it's *easily* the best machine I've seen going by the theme, layout, innovations etc. Shits all over Sterns entire recent catalogue as well as Wizard of Oz.

BTW If you want to see how positively brutal F-14 can be, watch this video from the PAPA 14 finals. It's fucking ridiculous (and IMO, a far better example of "real" pinball as opposed to more stop-and-aim titles like most Pat Lawlor-designed machines).

PS. Detour as much as you want! This thread is pretty much the catchall for general pinball news as well

Edit: The jpsalas version of the F-14 Tomcat Virtual Pinball table is surprisingly good quality. Should suffice until we get it for TPA

Thanks for your elaborate response good sir.

Regarding the Full Throttle machine: I wasn't aware of there being a possible prototype or reveal of it, but I'm very sure that I didn't see it there. Online, people are saying stuff about there being a video or something, but I didn't see that either. I do agree with you though that this table looks a lot more appealing than some of the other modern ones. My favorite tables are always the ones with an original theme or those without too much use of real life humans and photo's, so I'll definitely be keeping an eye out for this new one.

F-14 Tomcat truly is a brutal machine. I'm only a beginner when it comes to play skill in general (I only quite recently rediscovered the joy of playing pinball and never really experienced any of the famous tables until last year when I lived in Austin), but this particular table kills you before sometimes even knowing why. I think it has some kind of automatic ball saving mechanism which, if not used correctly, can result in a game over on your first ball (because you haven't stored the two others yet). Cool machine though!

What's your opinion on Junk Yard by the way? While seemingly less popular in the rankings, I really digged this game's art style, theme and the wrecking ball element. Oh, and while I'm at it: what are your (and other people's here) favorite machines? Apart from those that I mentioned, I really like White Water too, and they had 3 or even 4 of those at the Pinball Party.

Edit: Ah, I didn't see your correction on time. Never mind my comment on Full Throttle not being at Pinball Party then.

 

[BigWeather]

As a part of the beta for backing a table during Kickstarter, it turns out we do!

Not as great as I'd hoped, though... the lighting is all over the shop, the post-processing somehow pulls back the rendering resolution for some reason and it's just kinda wonky (and the table speeds seem to vary, even on the same table. I think changing camera options or something might do it).

It's definitely buggy, hopefully they'll hammer it out over the next few months (with our help, of course, finding issues). I think once it is stable it'll compare favorably with the best of the existing platforms. However, I think the PC could (and should) be a bit better -- hopefully they'll take the time to provide better (higher resolution) textures for many of the table elements, better sound samples, etc. If TPA is to be used for a virtual pinball table the existing graphical fidelity of the product just won't cut it. Hopefully FS will give it the attention it deserves.

 

[Minsc]

It's definitely buggy, hopefully they'll hammer it out over the next few months (with our help, of course, finding issues). I think once it is stable it'll compare favorably with the best of the existing platforms. However, I think the PC could (and should) be a bit better -- hopefully they'll take the time to provide better (higher resolution) textures for many of the table elements, better sound samples, etc. If TPA is to be used for a virtual pinball table the existing graphical fidelity of the product just won't cut it. Hopefully FS will give it the attention it deserves.

They have mentioned bringing in DX11 support down the road to match PS4 improvements at least.

Environment textures (walls, floor) could use some work, along with UI. Colors are a bit funny, like Shaneus mentioned earlier, maybe SweetFX will help, or maybe DX11 PS4 lighting will help, but I'm hopeful that eventually it will be improved.

 

[Shaneus]

Haven't played Junk Yard, nor even seen it in the wild. Sadly, I encountered a greater variety of machines when I was younger and not as into pinball as I am now... so I have memories of playing a wide variety of tables, but the only ones I can comment on are fairly slim.

As for my favourites though (that I've played), and as much as I don't generally like Stern tables, I'd have to say AC/DC Pro is right up there. Surprisingly fun machine, despite never feeling as well-built as the Williams tables of the 90s. No surprise it's designed by Steve Ritchie


For the guys in the beta: I have tweaked an existing SweetFX profile and the game looks immensely better for it:

Stock settings
Stock w/ SweetFX
In-game post-processing only
With post-processing and SweetFX

Even without considering there's a gnarly bug with post-proc that results in a lower render resolution (yes, I know SFX is post-proc as well, but I'm referring to in-game), I much prefer the muted colours of the setting I pretty much fluked.

So here you all go

They have mentioned bringing in DX11 support down the road to match PS4 improvements at least.

Environment textures (walls, floor) could use some work, along with UI. Colors are a bit funny, like Shaneus mentioned earlier, maybe SweetFX will help, or maybe DX11 PS4 lighting will help, but I'm hopeful that eventually it will be improved.

Yeah, that. I'm still surprised some things go through like the nighttime-esque lighting of tables like White Water, the overly-yellow Cactus Canyon (on all platforms it's like that!) and man, why can't everything just look as good as Funhouse and BoP? They need to get those artists back. It's like now all they do (essentially) is scan in the plastics and the playfield, but prior to that they put some effort into faking dynamic lighting that looked damn good. Everything else just looks flat by comparison.

There's also the weird flashing textures on the right hand side of AfM and poor Gorbie flashing on Taxi STILL doesn't look right, either.

I can't believe there are these cross-platform mistakes that they're still yet to fix. Doesn't fill me with confidence

 

[Shaneus]

Holy shit. So I'm watching the PAPA 16 finals, and it turns out this is the sort of shit you pull off when you know you've already won it (last game, but winner was already decided by the end of game 2):

Ridiculous.

If you want to see it in proper motion (I couldn't find a way to capture a GIF smooth enough) go here, then click through to 6:54:00, watch for about 15 seconds or so. Warning: Spoiler if you don't want to know who won.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

Played Centaur for the first time and it is....easy? Was expecting a far more brutal drain monster. Cool sound though.