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[plagiarize]

In that interview linked above, it was stated that the PS4 is considered a different platform than the PS3/Vita, at least in terms of purchasing.

I can't watch the video, but the question is what happens when you buy the PS4 version? PS4 games can be crossbuy with PS Vita titles, and I would expect that it's possible to 'bundle' the vita versions of the tables with PS4 purchases, while still bundling vita versions with the PS3 versions (and bundling PS3 versions with the vita versions).

Do they specifically address that? I can't watch at work. Like I said, I'm not expecting to get the vita versions, but I'd like confirmation on it, if there finally is confirmation.

In good news, I got my PS4 controller last night, and the shoulder buttons are lovely. Definitely better than the 360 pad and DS3 buttons.

 

[vg260]

I can't watch the video, but the question is what happens when you buy the PS4 version? PS4 games can be crossbuy with PS Vita titles, and I would expect that it's possible to 'bundle' the vita versions of the tables with PS4 purchases, while still bundling vita versions with the PS3 versions (and bundling PS3 versions with the vita versions).

Do they specifically address that? I can't watch at work. Like I said, I'm not expecting to get the vita versions, but I'd like confirmation on it, if there finally is confirmation

They do address it. Sadly, no, the PS4 version is independent. The PS3 and Vita are cross-buy, but not the PS4. Buying the PS4 will not get you the Vita version.

 

[Minsc]

New addtion to the OP prior to Season 3 as the amount of tables is starting to get up there:

Searchable Alphabetical Index (Table Name…Set)

Attack from Mars.................Table Pack 10
Big Shot.........................Table Pack 07
Black Hole.......................Core Table Pack
Black Knight.....................Table Pack 04
Cactus Canyon....................Table Pack 12
Centaur..........................Table Pack 14
Central Park.....................Table Pack 12
Cirqus Voltaire..................Table Pack 02
Class of 1812....................Table Pack 19
Creature from the Black Lagoon...Table Pack 04
Dr. Dude.........................Table Pack 11
Elvira and the Party Monsters....Table Pack 06
Firepower........................Table Pack 11
Flight 2000......................Table Pack 16
Funhouse.........................Table Pack 02
Genie............................Table Pack 10
Goin' Nuts.......................Table Pack 16
Gorgar...........................Table Pack 03
Harley-Davidson® (3rd Edition)...Table Pack 05
Haunted House....................Table Pack 18
Medieval Madness.................Table Pack 01
Monster Bash.....................Table Pack 03
No Good Gofers...................Table Pack 06
PIN·BOT..........................Table Pack 14
Ripley's Believe It or Not!®.....Core Table Pack
Scared Stiff.....................Table Pack 07
Space Shuttle....................Table Pack 13
Star Trek: The Next Generation...Table Pack 09
Tales of the Arabian Nights......Core Table Pack
Taxi.............................Table Pack 05
Tee'd Off........................Table Pack 18
Terminator 2: Judgment Day.......Table Pack 17
The Champion Pub.................Table Pack 15
The Machine: Bride of Pin·bot....Table Pack 01
Theatre of Magic.................Core Table Pack
Twilight Zone....................Table Pack 08
Victory..........................Table Pack 19
Whirlwind........................Table Pack 15
White Water......................Table Pack 13

Just a simple way to see if a table has been released, being alphabetical. Funny, it doesn't look like all that much listed out, but we're at 39 tables so far, 41 for the end of season 2.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

Also, some more info from PAF on PC pricing:


I don't know if that's cheaper than the other platforms, but I have a feeling it is. $30 each season *seems* like it's damn cheap. And for those proces, I'd be inclined to get the pro packs just so I can disable family mode in certain games (hi Elvira!) and muck around with it a bit.

I'm really, REALLY happy with those prices. No problems double/triple-dipping in the slightest. Especially considering that included in those will be (in the future) the ability to use them all on virtual pinball tables (I would assume).

I can handle those prices for more than 3 dozen tables. I wonder if they ever fixed some of the texture quality bugs from the beta.

 

[Plinko]

Just saw this interview:

Round 3: The Pinball Arcade Fans Q&A With Bobby King From Farsight Studios

Apparently, if you bought the Season 1 pack or 4 or more table packs on PS3/Vita, PS4 Season 1 is half off.

Day 1 PS4 launch is still up in the air.

 

[Shaneus]

They do address it. Sadly, no, the PS4 version is independent. The PS3 and Vita are cross-buy, but not the PS4. Buying the PS4 will not get you the Vita version.

Yeah, TBH I'm a little surprised that they won't be including them as cross-buy, but I guess we can always use remote play! Remote play should be particularly awesome, so long as the lag isn't horrible.

Also of note in that interview: A mega-update for the PS3 version which will include a stack of texture and other updates, specific night mode for PS4 (which is good, because I don't always like playing in night mode, which is what I thought the PS4 version would be), *finally* getting emulation working for Firepower and Black Knight (which will be in one of the next updates once they push out the PC release and mega update for PS3)... and other stuff.

Just on the emulation of FP/BK: If they have that working, and given their similarity to

I can handle those prices for more than 3 dozen tables. I wonder if they ever fixed some of the texture quality bugs from the beta.

Hoping so, but doubt it. If not, I suspect they will be pushed to the PC version when they get the PS4 features implemented into it. I just hope they fix the post-proc (not that I like it anyway, regardless of implementation issues).
Surprised on the price, though! I thought it would've been far more expensive but at those prices it seems incredibly cheap (and almost lines up with PFX for value). Makes springing for the Pro pack less of a tough decision.

 

[Corleth the Fey]

Recently bought a new PS3 and, man, the act of getting all of the tables back into TPA was a pain in the butt, unless I missed something fundamental. I had to go to the store, download all of them again, install them, and clean up the PSVita ones that were also downloaded due to crossbuy.

You should have gone into Account Management on Xmb, then download list. You can easily see the difference between Ps3 and Vita versions there.

So I've bought all the tables on PS3. (And on 360 and various tables on iOS and Android) I bought them all separately though. If there's a discount for previously buying Season Passes when the PS4 version arrives, do I get the discount?

 

[BigWeather]

You should have gone into Account Management on Xmb, then download list. You can easily see the difference between Ps3 and Vita versions there.

So I've bought all the tables on PS3. (And on 360 and various tables on iOS and Android) I bought them all separately though. If there's a discount for previously buying Season Passes when the PS4 version arrives, do I get the discount?

D'oh, can't believe I didn't think of going to the download list. Will use next time, thanks!

I think that as long as you own four tables from season 1 you'll get season 1 for PS4 at a discount. I don't think we know anything about discounts for season 2 yet.

 

[plagiarize]

That Sony are still listing this for launch, on recently updated lists gives me hope that we aren't looking at any kind of delay.

http://blog.us.playstation.com/2013/10/30/ps4-the-ultimate-faq-north-america/#sect2

They posted that today. So... fingers remain tightly crossed.

If we get confirmation on that 'if you bought 4 or more dlc packs' I'll probably buy 3 DLC packs for vita. I've already got one on the system, and 3 packs is similar to the money saved.

hopefully this will be clearly outlined. if they have to be season 1 packs or if they can be any.

 

[Shaneus]

D'oh, can't believe I didn't think of going to the download list. Will use next time, thanks!

I think that as long as you own four tables from season 1 you'll get season 1 for PS4 at a discount. I don't think we know anything about discounts for season 2 yet.

Clarification: I believe it's four table *packs*. I don't want to get finicky, but people might get antsy with those technicalities!


Side note: Should we have a new thread for the PC and/or PS4 versions? They seem like the sort of things (particularly the former) that should be brought to people's attention especially.

 

[Minsc]

I was planning on moving this thread back to gaming for the PC/PS4 release, since the OP has a ton of useful info and we're all subscribed to this anyway

 

[plagiarize]

Clarification: I believe it's four table *packs*. I don't want to get finicky, but people might get antsy with those technicalities!


Side note: Should we have a new thread for the PC and/or PS4 versions? They seem like the sort of things (particularly the former) that should be brought to people's attention especially.

well I bought three more 'packs'. fingers crossed I haven't just thrown money away

 

[BigWeather]

Clarification: I believe it's four table *packs*. I don't want to get finicky, but people might get antsy with those technicalities!

Yes, good catch -- four table packs. Thanks!

 

[Minsc]

A little early bump for a heads up on the Steam release (it will be out tomorrow), and hopefully to answer any questions people may have pre-release / avoid confusion! As the way this game is priced / split up with all the tables and pack and seasons it can be a bit confusing.

Also added the Steam pricing info to the OP for now.

 

[Minsc]

Looks like the Steam beta has ended, no longer launches. Hopefully it updates on time tomorrow, 10am PDT is what they're saying Steam gives them for release time.

There was also speculation in the latest Q&A, linked a few posts above, that the timeframe for the PC version getting updated to DX11 with PS4 enhancements to be around Jan/Feb of 2014, or basically a few months after the PS4 version is released.

 

[Brashnir]

Looks like the Steam beta has ended, no longer launches. Hopefully it updates on time tomorrow, 10am PDT is what they're saying Steam gives them for release time.

There was also speculation in the latest Q&A, linked a few posts above, that the timeframe for the PC version getting updated to DX11 with PS4 enhancements to be around Jan/Feb of 2014, or basically a few months after the PS4 version is released.

Why do I get the sinking feeling that this will somehow be screwed up?

Thanks for the pricing update, btw. So I guess it's $70 for both seasons total, which includes all tables released to-date? (non-pro)

 

[Dash Kappei]

I've actually never bought a PRO add-on, should I? I feel like it's ridiculously priced, but maybe it's just me.
I don't think this info is laid out on the OP (unless I'm blind and/or the huge -but awesome- post+banners doesn't sit well with mobile gaf), what does it do exactly besides changing the tilt and, I guess, the play-field's grade to make it faster? You can make the ball heavier? What else?

Also, the DLC balls are just for cosmetic's effect, right?

 

[Shaneus]

I was planning on moving this thread back to gaming for the PC/PS4 release, since the OP has a ton of useful info and we're all subscribed to this anyway

Perfect! Nice work on the thread title change, too. Maybe something like "Out on PC, PS4 at launch" or something.

I'm not even kidding when I say this is the only title I'd buy a PS4 at launch for. Hope the pricing is more in-line with the PC, because from memory both the iOS and PS3/Vita season packs are more expensive.

 

[kulapik]

Yay, Pinball FX system (although pricing is a lot better)

 

[Minsc]

As for putting PS4 in the title, well this is FarSight, you don't count the chickens until they're cooked and on the plate (I'm half-expecting, no almost completely-expecting the Steam release tomorrow to go horribly wrong).

I've actually never bought a PRO add-on, should I? I feel like it's ridiculously priced, but maybe it's just me.
I don't think this info is laid out on the OP (unless I'm blind and/or the huge -but awesome- post+banners doesn't sit well with mobile gaf), what does it do exactly besides changing the tilt and, I guess, the play-field's grade to make it faster? You can make the ball heavier? What else?

Also, the DLC balls are just for cosmetic's effect, right?

From the PAF latest news and updates thread: Pro mode gives you "access to the Operator's Menu, Ball Control Mode, Table Exploration Mode and IFPA Pro Tips". Nothing terribly exciting at all, unless you want to really tweak the table's settings to how you like to play it.

There was also talk about implementing a tournament level difficulty setting for all the tables, possibly with its own leaderboards. That should please the people who don't like their pinball games to last 4 hours from countless extra balls. This may or may not be tied to Pro mode, it's unclear at the moment.

 

[Shaneus]

As for putting PS4 in the title, well this is FarSight, you don't count the chickens until they're cooked and on the plate (I'm half-expecting, no almost completely-expecting the Steam release tomorrow to go horribly wrong).

Ah, I was just meaning that when it's confirmed, pop it in there And maybe make a greater point of it being on Steam, maybe make the suffix a prefix

And yeah, pro mode is largely a waste. I only bought it on TotAN because it was cheap, MM I think to see what it was like, the KS tables because that's what they came with, and Elvira to disable family mode. All iOS. But given the price difference and that I'll probably find some use out of pro mode for at least three tables per pack, it'll wind up cheaper anyway. Besides, support FS!

 

[plagiarize]

Ah, I was just meaning that when it's confirmed, pop it in there And maybe make a greater point of it being on Steam, maybe make the suffix a prefix

And yeah, pro mode is largely a waste. I only bought it on TotAN because it was cheap, MM I think to see what it was like, the KS tables because that's what they came with, and Elvira to disable family mode. All iOS. But given the price difference and that I'll probably find some use out of pro mode for at least three tables per pack, it'll wind up cheaper anyway. Besides, support FS!

wait... Elvira has forced family mode? I'll be sure to buy pro for that on PS4 if true. boooo!

 

[Gillian Seed]

I never bought any Season Packs, but I do own almost every table on the PS3. Will I get the PS4 tables at half price?

 

[plagiarize]

I never bought any Season Packs, but I do own almost every table on the PS3. Will I get the PS4 tables at half price?

you will get season one half price. so weird to be back in gaming discussion! anyway back to creature!

 

[Rhomega Beta]

Well I hope this pans out for the PC version. I do love a good game of pinball. Though to be fair, I haven't given Pinball FX 2 the love I should be.

 

[MrTroubleMaker]

Also, some more info from PAF on PC pricing:

Nice! will get it for my PC too

 

[Shaneus]

wait... Elvira has forced family mode? I'll be sure to buy pro for that on PS4 if true. boooo!

Yup. I didn't even know until I was listening to some podcast and how the only reason they bought it was to switch it off. And then, because you're in pro/adjustment mode... no high scores :/

 

[Shaneus]

Hour to go, give or take! Sadly, I don't think I can stay up until then, so I'll see you guys tomorrow

My Steam ID is Shaneus2k2, FWIW.

 

[OrbitalBeard]

This is never coming to Wii U, is it?

Was looking forward to playing this on the gamepad. Maybe I'll just buy the tables on Steam.

 

[Brashnir]

Hour to go, give or take! Sadly, I don't think I can stay up until then, so I'll see you guys tomorrow

My Steam ID is Shaneus2k2, FWIW.

Think it's 2 hours still, actually.

Not that it will matter when you wake up.

 

[vg260]

And yeah, pro mode is largely a waste. I only bought it on TotAN because it was cheap, MM I think to see what it was like, the KS tables because that's what they came with, and Elvira to disable family mode. All iOS. But given the price difference and that I'll probably find some use out of pro mode for at least three tables per pack, it'll wind up cheaper anyway. Besides, support FS!

Hm. It certainly is a massive discount to buy the pro season pack, even if you only wanted one or two pro packs and were getting the season pack anyway.

 

[Shaneus]

Yeah, that's what I figured on that... given the difference, might as well.

 

[GDJustin]

I own everything on iOS and re-buying it all for $70 on Steam is painful

It's the only platform I'd consider it, since it's the closest thing to "permanent."

Any word on whether our table goals / HoF scores / leaderboards carry over? I've not been following how Farsight handles multiplatform stuff. I'm assuming poorly, like basically everything else they do, outside of the Pinball simulation itself.

Hopefully FS lets Steam get aggressive with Holiday sales and I can grab this stuff for at least 50-66% off in the Holiday sale. Once again, knowing Farsight, they'll probably only allow 20% max.

 

[Minsc]

I own everything on iOS and re-buying it all for $70 on Steam is painful

It's the only platform I'd consider it, since it's the closest thing to "permanent."

Any word on whether our table goals / HoF scores / leaderboards carry over? I've not been following how Farsight handles multiplatform stuff. I'm assuming poorly, like basically everything else they do, outside of the Pinball simulation itself.

Hopefully FS lets Steam get aggressive with Holiday sales and I can grab this stuff for at least 50-66% off in the Holiday sale. Once again, knowing Farsight, they'll probably only allow 20% max.

The purchases are not normal Steam DLC items that can be bought from Steam's website, so steam sales won't effect it (I don't think they'll even be listed on steam). Purchases are only able to be made with Steam Wallet, like other F2P games. AFAIK, pricing is handled all on FarSight's end.

 

[kulapik]

The purchases are not normal Steam DLC items that can be bought from Steam's website, so steam sales won't effect it (I don't think they'll even be listed on steam). Purchases are only able to be made with Steam Wallet, like other F2P games. AFAIK, pricing is handled all on FarSight's end.

Well that sucks. Point to Pinball FX2.

 

[Brashnir]

The purchases are not normal Steam DLC items that can be bought from Steam's website, so steam sales won't effect it (I don't think they'll even be listed on steam). Purchases are only able to be made with Steam Wallet, like other F2P games. AFAIK, pricing is handled all on FarSight's end.

Wait - seriously?

So I'm going to have to make some crappy account with Farsight to keep track of my purchases? Given how they've shown themselves to do business, I think I'll just have to pass on this one. That sucks, I was looking forward to the Steam release, but I'm not buying anything if that's how they want to operate.

 

[RadarScope1]

Really interested in getting this on PS4 if there's no input lag and if I like the DS4 triggers for it.

 

[Minsc]

Wait - seriously?

So I'm going to have to make some crappy account with Farsight to keep track of my purchases? Given how they've shown themselves to do business, I think I'll just have to pass on this one. That sucks, I was looking forward to the Steam release, but I'm not buying anything if that's how they want to operate.

They said Valve told them this was the only way they could sell the tables the way the wanted, that Valve said they couldn't do it like a normal DLC item through Valve. Keep in mind Pinball FX2 only has a few packs, maybe 15? While TPA would need around 70 or 80 DLC items, and that's just today, down the road even more, well over 100 DLC items at some point next year.

I'm thinking that's because they didn't want to make it a normal priced product, but a free product, in hopes of getting more people to get it, since it's free. I think that may backfire though, they probably would have been better off releasing it for a 50% off introductory sale with the 4 core table packs for $4.99, on sale from $9.99. But maybe Valve wouldn't let them do that, who knows.

I am curious to how this whole Steam Wallet thing works, but I won't be able to test it myself until tonight.

According to posts on PAF, it's out now though, so I updated the title, but i can't find it on their store pages yet. Probably update in 15 minutes or so.

Edit: Not showing up, after the given time now... I guess if you had the beta it will update, which is how people are playing it, but if not, there seems to be no store page to download it, so we continue waiting and hoping.

 

[GDJustin]

They said Valve told them this was the only way they could sell the tables the way the wanted, that Valve said they couldn't do it like a normal DLC item through Valve. Keep in mind Pinball FX2 only has a few packs, maybe 15? While TPA would need around 70 or 80 DLC items, and that's just today, down the road even more, well over 100 DLC items at some point next year.

I'm thinking that's because they didn't want to make it a normal priced product, but a free product, in hopes of getting more people to get it, since it's free. I think that may backfire though, they probably would have been better off releasing it for a 50% off introductory sale with the 4 core table packs for $4.99, on sale from $9.99. But maybe Valve wouldn't let them do that, who knows.

I am curious to how this whole Steam Wallet thing works, but I won't be able to test it myself until tonight.

According to posts on PAF, it's out now though, so I updated the title, but i can't find it on their store pages yet. Probably update in 15 minutes or so.

Free products on Steam can still sell their DLC through Steam, letting them be subject to Steam sales.

 

[Minsc]

Free products on Steam can still sell their DLC through Steam, letting them be subject to Steam sales.

Oh ok, I guess we will see. I don't have much experience with F2P stuff on Steam (and I'd imagine DOTA2/TF2/Valve games would be an exception to the rule, so that wouldn't be a good example), but it was made clear in the PAF forums by developers that the only way to purchase tables is with a Steam Wallet, and it was speculated there that was because it was a F2P game. If that's not the case, I'm curious to how it looks when the page finally shows up in the Steam store.

Can DLC items which can only be purchased with Steam Wallet money go on sale? See this for what we know so far:

NOTE : All purchases will be handled strictly within The Pinball Arcade and you will be required to add funds to your steam wallet for all in-game purchases. Individual table purchases will not be available. You will not be required to create and log into a FarSight account to make in-game purchases. A FarSight account will only be required for leaderboards and Kickstarter rewards.

Sounds weird that you'd only be able to purchase items in-game if they were on the Steam store. So I guess maybe just for this case, Valve is not letting them sell their DLC through the Steam store, it sounds like.

The good news is it says a FarSight account is not required for purchase tracking, so Brashnir might be back on board.

 

[GDJustin]

My guess is that's it is just Farsight being dumb and shortsighted again - getting something 80% right but then mucking it up at the very end :/

There's no problem with having lots and lots (and lots) of DLC on Steam, selling it normally through Steam, and letting that DLC be subject to Steam sales. See Train Simulator, with its 136 pricey DLC packs:

http://store.steampowered.com/app/24010/?snr=1_7_15__13

There's also no problem with free-to-play games selling their in-game stuff through Steam itself:

http://store.steampowered.com/app/236390/

My GUESS is that Farsight just wanted to "control" the shopping experience, and/or that Steam Wallet purchases give a smaller % cut to Valve than standard Steam purchases.

 

[Brashnir]

The good news is it says a FarSight account is not required for purchase tracking, so Brashnir might be back on board.

Indeed. that jumped right out at me. thanks.

 

[ShaneB]

Anxiously awaiting this to show up on Steam. Excited to finally play it tonight.

 

[Gillian Seed]

you will get season one half price. so weird to be back in gaming discussion! anyway back to creature!

Thanks.

 

[Minsc]

My guess is that's it is just Farsight being dumb and shortsighted again - getting something 80% right but then mucking it up at the very end :/

There's no problem with having lots and lots (and lots) of DLC on Steam, selling it normally through Steam, and letting that DLC be subject to Steam sales. See Train Simulator, with its 136 pricey DLC packs:

http://store.steampowered.com/app/24010/?snr=1_7_15__13

There's also no problem with free-to-play games selling their in-game stuff through Steam itself:

http://store.steampowered.com/app/236390/

My GUESS is that Farsight just wanted to "control" the shopping experience, and/or that Steam Wallet purchases give a smaller % cut to Valve than standard Steam purchases.

Hmm... Well I think Train Simulator is a bad example for this discussion, because it is not F2P, and I think being a paid game gives one an advantage with the amount of DLC items Valve permits. Also, Train Simulator may be an exception to the norm itself, so for that reason as well it may be a bad example.

I do see now as you've pointed out from your second example that F2P games can sell items in the Steam Store, but there's still a pretty big difference between a F2P game selling 3 items and a F2P game selling 100+ items. Steam's store isn't even really convenient to browse through that much DLC. So I think it's possible Valve saw the amount of items they wanted to sell and told them they couldn't do it through Valve's store.

If they were just selling ~15 Table Packs like Pinball FX2, and not ~20 Table Packs / ~20 Pro Table Packs / ~20 Pro Table Pack Upgrades / 2 Season Packs / ? Pinball Skin DLCs / the Core Table Pack / and so on, I think they'd probably be fine to.

Also, they did say on PAF something to the matter of they had it all setup to go through Valve's stores, but Valve made them change it. I do see your skepticism in believing that though.

 

[vg260]

Really interested in getting this on PS4 if there's no input lag and if I like the DS4 triggers for it.

The DS4 upper shoulder buttons are good if you don't like the triggers.

 

[plagiarize]

The DS4 upper shoulder buttons are good if you don't like the triggers.

they really are. I couldn't be happier with them, actually. they're much better than the DS3 or 360 pad shoulder buttons. they have a nice solid 'clunk' when they actuate, and they're a good size.

so where the hell is the game on steam? I keep looking and it keeps not being there.

 

[plagiarize]

Hmm... Well I think Train Simulator is a bad example for this discussion, because it is not F2P, and I think being a paid game gives one an advantage with the amount of DLC items Valve permits. Also, Train Simulator may be an exception to the norm itself, so for that reason as well it may be a bad example.

I do see now as you've pointed out from your second example that F2P games can sell items in the Steam Store, but there's still a pretty big difference between a F2P game selling 3 items and a F2P game selling 100+ items. Steam's store isn't even really convenient to browse through that much DLC. So I think it's possible Valve saw the amount of items they wanted to sell and told them they couldn't do it through Valve's store.

If they were just selling ~15 Table Packs like Pinball FX2, and not ~20 Table Packs / ~20 Pro Table Packs / ~20 Pro Table Pack Upgrades / 2 Season Packs / ? Pinball Skin DLCs / the Core Table Pack / and so on, I think they'd probably be fine to.

Also, they did say on PAF something to the matter of they had it all setup to go through Valve's stores, but Valve made them change it. I do see your skepticism in believing that though.

It's already annoying enough when I do a search for 'Pinball Arcade' to get all of the Pinball FX2 DLC show up. On Vita, it was much less painless to buy the tables in game than from the PSN store, again because of the number of things that come up as DLC for the game.

pick the table you want, choose from four options (pack/pro pack/season pass/pro season pass). done.

 

[GDJustin]

They shouldn't be Free on Steam. They should charge $5 - $10 and include a few tables, and then sell the rest as DLC. People would eat it up.

 

[Minsc]

they really are. I couldn't be happier with them, actually. they're much better than the DS3 or 360 pad shoulder buttons. they have a nice solid 'clunk' when they actuate, and they're a good size.

so where the hell is the game on steam? I keep looking and it keeps not being there.

Yeah, as most expected, we have an update:

Important
We haven't officially released yet. We're still working out a worldwide currency issue with Steam. If you had Beta access and were able to get the latest version, I would ask that you don't purchase anything until we've sorted this all out.

Valve was supposed to lock out the beta keys until after release, but it sounds like that may not have happened.

So it was the beta users like I thought that got today's release build to start, and that's why no one else could find it. Guess I can't go buying anything just yet then, but at least I can launch the game and try out the included TotAN.