Cindi Mayweather
Member
I want a ghost Pokemon starter.
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The Pokemon Series Could Still Learn From its Original Entries
- Thread starter Nocturnowl
- Start date
Er, literally every Pokemon game after the first set has had a regional dex. They always choose a small pool of mons to include in a set of games (besides Black and White which only featured new Pokemon) and then open up the entire dex in the postgame for the hardcore collectors.
This seems completely situational, based on (primarily) you being a child and the internet not being what it is. Unfortunately I don't think you can ever really recapture that feeling past the age of 13, no matter how good the game is.
Half of my posts are about this these days but it just keeps bugging me. Do you mean actual QoL or maybe usability/ux? I need to know what people mean when they talk about quality of life in gaming. Every time that term is used around here i feel more and more lost. Feels like i just missed the memo. Pls respond.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
Didn't say they didn't do that but it still feels like a mish mash of old and new with random assortment to me. At least from my experience playing X.
This.
I really don't like the introduction of features like this and then taking them away in other games.
Yeah I was gonna say, in X and Y they made huge regional dexes for those games. But in the others it's usually a pretty standard amount, like 150 to 300, in Black 2 and White 2's case.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
There should be a poll for what popular ORAS features ain't making a return for these, cuz most of them aint.
Just ask poor Sawsbuck in Gen 6.
Just ask poor Sawsbuck in Gen 6.
Yeah, gamefreaks has continually dumbed the series down in each installment, culminating in the terribleness that is XY.
When playing Fire Red a few years ago, I realized how much closer to a traditional jrpg the original is, with long dungeons and the necessity of acquiring key items in order to keep exploring and progressing.
When playing Fire Red a few years ago, I realized how much closer to a traditional jrpg the original is, with long dungeons and the necessity of acquiring key items in order to keep exploring and progressing.
Always and forever
Seriously needs to come back and be a mainstay of the series. Walking around with your Pokemon just feels really nice.
Also clothes customization would be nice too.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
What popular ORAS features?
Should I play it? X is my return to Pokemon after Blue. I want to play Soul Silver but it's really expensive.
Like I said, pretty much all modern Pokemon games make it pretty regional outside of X/Y which had a crap ton of Pokemon everywhere.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
Yeah, that's why I mentioned X.
Bring back the gambling minigames. The fuck is this Minesweeper nonsense?
The best thing ever.
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
Obviously, that's why I said it's impossible to recreate
Cindi Mayweather
Member
The internet wasn't what it is today but it still had plenty of information back then. People act like there were no Pokemon resources online. I found out about missingno from online if I remember. So questions like "where do I get this Pokemon?" were answerable then as they now. Speaking as someone who got Pokemon Blue when she was 13.
I think this mystery you guys talk about is due to your probably. There were lists back then, especially Gfaqs that showed which Pokemon were exclusive to each version or the Safari zone.
There was definitely mystery but not as much as people say it is, and the internet was definitely a thing.
They're referring more to how rumors were just more crazy back then, it was a lot easier to spread a fake rumor back in the days of the early internet.
ORAS is pretty fun, but if you're looking for difficulty, they simplified the main game quite a bit.
Weltall Zero
Member
OP, I'm deeply disappointed that you had the chance to title your thread "What Pokemon could learn from Pokemon" and completely flubbed it.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
Oh, okay.
People would make shit up because frankly, video games were younger, and by extension, players were younger. Now we're older. The last time I remember that false rumor stuff was regarding sasquatch in GTASA.
Back then people would spread rumors on how to resurrect Aerith via cheat code. But that was when we were young and people had time to bullshit.
Now everyone just facts checks things because we're not dumb kids anymore.
I'm pretty sure that today's kids have just as many rumors and bullshit to go through. We, as adults, don't have any fucking time for that.
Nocturnowl
Member
Actually usability sounds like the right one here, I'm just absent-mindedly using the term I see most often.
This ain't no IGN article my friend.
Maximus.
Member
I have read this from a few posters and this isn't a viable solution. I am not going to intentionally avoid aspects of the game to make it "harder", when the developers choose to make the games easier.
Xion_Stellar
People should stop referencing data that makes me feel uncomfortable because games get ported to platforms I don't like
Bring back the gambling minigames. The fuck is this Minesweeper nonsense?
IIRC the reason they were removed in the first place was because the EU game rating board changed its classification system and in order for The Pokemon Company to keep their beloved E rating on their games they are no longer allowed to include gambling games in their video games.
MaximumSpider
Banned
Uh no?!?!?!
Booker.DeWitt
Member
this is not a new thing, all the games from the past few years are overall easier, with few exceptions such as bloodborn, dark souls series, etc..
There is almost no challenge on clearing any game on normal nowadays. pokemon is not different than most of the current games
There is almost no challenge on clearing any game on normal nowadays. pokemon is not different than most of the current games
Metroidvania
People called Romanes they go the house?
DexNav + Character customization need to be in Moon/Sun, if we're just talking features.
Difficulty-wise, it'd honestly be nice to either switch up the starting trio triangle (in combination with gyms, especially something like Misty if you picked Charmander), and/or more intricate caves/trainer density, but having something like Lavender Town's heal-spaces (even if there were only half-effective, and/or limited use per visit)
But I also remember tearing my hair out as a kid trying to get through Mt. Moon/Victory Road without repels, lol.
Not sure how they can balance 'difficulty' outside of trainer density/levels of their pokemon without possibly just feeling cheap/like a source of frustration for younger players.
Difficulty-wise, it'd honestly be nice to either switch up the starting trio triangle (in combination with gyms, especially something like Misty if you picked Charmander), and/or more intricate caves/trainer density, but having something like Lavender Town's heal-spaces (even if there were only half-effective, and/or limited use per visit)
But I also remember tearing my hair out as a kid trying to get through Mt. Moon/Victory Road without repels, lol.
Not sure how they can balance 'difficulty' outside of trainer density/levels of their pokemon without possibly just feeling cheap/like a source of frustration for younger players.
NHarmonic.
Member
It's sad but lately it's the only way to make the games go from very easy to easy (for example, turning off the exp share).
BodiesWithoutOrgans
Member
No HM's
Hard Mode
PlzzzzzzzzzzzZ
Hard Mode
PlzzzzzzzzzzzZ
NipplesAndToes23
Member
I agree to some point about the map progression. I find it disappointing when I try to enter an area and I can't because a few guys are blocking the path.
I'm pretty sure in at least the remake of Silver you have to go to the Whirl Islands in order to progress. It would also be really cool if every pokemon was catchable during the journey and they got rid of pokemon evolving by trade and just gave them a stone to evolve from.
I'm pretty sure in at least the remake of Silver you have to go to the Whirl Islands in order to progress. It would also be really cool if every pokemon was catchable during the journey and they got rid of pokemon evolving by trade and just gave them a stone to evolve from.
NipplesAndToes23
Member
I agree with you on that. Not much has appealed to me in any game after. Red/Blue/Yellow are the only ones where I downloaded the entire thing and not just a few songs.
On reducing HMs, that might be tricky, though they have shown a tiny bit of willingness to fix HM Flash to a TM. One person mentioned earlier having certain HMs turned into a type of ability like looking at the water and just surfing. Traversal balancing might be the easiest part by keeping it tied to gym badges, but the other part is losing some decent attacks that have been a part of the series a long time. And just changing everything to a TM doesn't feel right either. The games do have some issues with too many HMs which might limit your progress, lose out on certain moves if multiple HMs are on one Pokemon, and limit your exploration and endurance because of multiple HM slaves to explore a large cave that requires multiple HMs to progress through.
There's definitely a lot of issues in this area that can be frustrating.
There's definitely a lot of issues in this area that can be frustrating.
J
Jotamide
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah. HG/SS are the best Pokémon games.
Replaying Kanto, I find myself marveling at the way the game progresses, in part because it's not as directly reliant on beating Gyms as the recent entries. The three primary subquests are those focused on Cut, the Poke Flute, and Surf; finishing all three opens up the entire region. This lets you treat Surge, Erika, Sabrina, and Blaine as incidental, and you're free to explore and level up without having to fight them; you'll often find Pokemon strong against them in optional areas, like Doduo and Diglett. That's fine, and it works, since the other bosses (your rival, Giovanni) will fight you during the sidequests. It also means that a good portion of the game can be considered optional: you never have to visit Routes 11-15 if you don't want to.
I could go on and on about how well designed the region is and how much nuance there is to it; it's remarkably different from the modern regions that shuttle you through them on a fixed line.
I could go on and on about how well designed the region is and how much nuance there is to it; it's remarkably different from the modern regions that shuttle you through them on a fixed line.
And Surf and Strength. You only need about 4 HMs in RBY as Flash is only really used in Rock Tunnel. And those 4 HMs are teachable to many types of Pokemon that you'll likely have caught at the beginning of the game. That makes progress and exploration to do what you want far easier too.
Probably there is something to the idea that the games themselves are getting too easy and "paint by numbers". The last Pokemon games I finished were the Sinnoh games. I never got to the end of Unova or Kalos. I still like franchise and the possibilities of the battle system but the actual games failed to keep my interest all the way through. After a while I just didn't feel pressed to go to the next town and repeat everything I did in the last one and with almost zero chance of failure. For the first time, I'm questioning whether to bother with the next generation (Sun/Moon) even though I'm still curious to see what they'll bring to the table.
I didn't count Strength as a sidequest because it's found close to Surf and IIRC isn't actually required until Victory Road.
Fly and Flash are both optional; you're actually intended to Surf south of Fuchsia and west through Seafoam to reach Cinnabar (though I believe that means one of either Fly or Strength are required).
I've always avoided Seafoam Island in my playthroughs and gone down fro Palette Town. Strength is a required HM for Seafoam Island though with some tricky rock puzzles (at least for me anyway) to slow down the water currents so you can safely surf. You also meet Articuno there too.
EDIT: Basically by having fewer HMs, progression felt more snappy and natural, I guess. You often had the Pokemon required with maybe one HM per Pokemon or an HM slave with 4 HMs. With the abundance of HMs now, there are issues regarding having 1 HM per Pokemon or multiple HM slaves wasting a slot or two in your party just to explore some areas. HM move management feels a little cumbersome these days.
Dark Ninja
Member
Make them all TM's to keep them as moves but make them "trainer abilities" you earn through gym battles or given to you from an NPC. You just need the type of Pokemon to use it in the field.
Hmm. That might work. Though I think 4 HMs might be the sweet spot overall to keep things more open for map exploration and progress. They'll be the main ones like Surf, Strength, Fly, and Cut. The extras can be TMs with an NPC discussing trainer abilities like Waterfall, Dive, Rock Climb, Flash, Whirlpool, Flash, Rock Climb.
As much as I loved Soul Silver, my god I was overwhelmed with 8 HMs. HMs also seem inconsistent by generation too with some having more HMs, some having less.
MindCollizion
Member
Building on the anime, maybe this time around you may have 2 other specific trainers join you in the game, only if you want. If you'd rather go at it solo like it has been so for 20 years then you can do that as well. This adds to the total number of pokemon you can have in your party. From 6 to 18. Adds variety to your style of fighting with the possibility of three distinct styles. It's a lot to talk about specifics, but this would also enhance the RPG experience, not to mention lengthening the already extensive game time. I don't know, just changing the dynamic of gameplay. As this new batch of games is set in the future, surely the rules of battle have evolved along with gameplay. It would be fun, at least, and would break from the monotony that has become a pokemon battle.
HawthorneKitty
Sgt. 2nd Class in the Creep Battalion, Waifu Wars
Would you settle for a Triple/Rotation battle focused region akin to Colisseum/XD spinoff?
Sounds like a pain to manage 18 pokes tho
NipplesAndToes23
Member
18 would be a bit much. I'm cool with trainers joining you, but I can't see it working in a solo run other than how they did with Generation V where occasionally you'll have a trainer participating in a doubles battle with you. Also with Gen V I find it refreshing how all the gym leader battles are two on two in Black 1. It's different and I like it.
Well in X/Y there's only 5 HM's, which is the same as Red/Blue/Yellow. The problem moves to me are Cut and Waterfall/Surf. Because Cut sucks and, depending on what Water Pokemon you're carrying with you (if you're carrying one at all) one of those moves is probably not going to be optimal on it due to the physical/special split, and the fact that they do basically the same thing.
NipplesAndToes23
Member
The only HM I feel that is necessary is Surf and I like the move. Waterfall is okay as a move, but it's an annoying HM. I would just make it a natural upgrade for your water pokemon. If you have a water type and you approach a waterfall you can climb it.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
Why not make it more story-based? I mean, the story in X is really pathetic and childish.
As much as the games are filled with Pokemon, they feel devoid of actual Pokemon stories.
I'm pretty sure there's enough room for stories that you would have saw in the anime like the stray Charmander whose tail will go out if the party doesn't get it to shelter. You have a rival in X, but he's a fucking loser and only ever shows up to challenge you to prove he's a loser, he doesn't have actual narrative spark like Gary in the show.
The stories are just really shallow and bare bones over here. I hear they tried something different with Black, but they're not replicating it in later entries.
As much as the games are filled with Pokemon, they feel devoid of actual Pokemon stories.
I'm pretty sure there's enough room for stories that you would have saw in the anime like the stray Charmander whose tail will go out if the party doesn't get it to shelter. You have a rival in X, but he's a fucking loser and only ever shows up to challenge you to prove he's a loser, he doesn't have actual narrative spark like Gary in the show.
The stories are just really shallow and bare bones over here. I hear they tried something different with Black, but they're not replicating it in later entries.
Yeah, the Waterfall and Surf thing can be a real problem here. I think Surf is the only one that should stay an HM there because it has plenty more uses than Waterfall which may only ever get used in so few areas.
The original Gameboy games were designed with single player in mind. Moreover, the very first games in the series don't heft around the legacy of how previous games did things. As a consequence, everything you experience in the first games is there for a reason. The new games are very multiplayer focused while the single player just follows a formula without any thought given.
I've been saying a lot of the same things you mentioned for a while. I go one step further and say the original Red/Blue are the best games in the series, at least in terms of single player. And it's because of things like what you mention, which have more of an actual impact on whether the game is worth playing than the convenience features in later games.
One of the things I like to mention though that you didn't bring up is that the original games are "balanced" better for single player. And by that I mean they're deliberately unbalanced in a way that gives a lot of the Pokemon some character. There's a Pokemon that's redeemed by being the first to learn a base 80 STAB move. There's another whose whole gimmick is early access to a sleep move. There's a Pokemon that can wall like 75% of the early game no problem but gets destroyed against the other 25%. There's a Pokemon that becomes useful upon learning the move Leech Life. None of this stuff could ever happen in the newer games where every Pokemon has a wide movepool and all of the types are available very soon after the first few routes.
Also, whether intentional or not, the original games do benefit from some of the jank. Single player RPGs are often improved by having a few things that are unbalanced or broken. It wouldn't fly in a multiplayer game, but in single player it can be fun to use and account for an overpowered strategy. Red/Blue's jank is the reason why I replay them rather than FireRed/LeafGreen. The remakes smoothed over the rough edges but as a consequence, the Pokemon feel a lot weaker than in the original games.
I've been saying a lot of the same things you mentioned for a while. I go one step further and say the original Red/Blue are the best games in the series, at least in terms of single player. And it's because of things like what you mention, which have more of an actual impact on whether the game is worth playing than the convenience features in later games.
One of the things I like to mention though that you didn't bring up is that the original games are "balanced" better for single player. And by that I mean they're deliberately unbalanced in a way that gives a lot of the Pokemon some character. There's a Pokemon that's redeemed by being the first to learn a base 80 STAB move. There's another whose whole gimmick is early access to a sleep move. There's a Pokemon that can wall like 75% of the early game no problem but gets destroyed against the other 25%. There's a Pokemon that becomes useful upon learning the move Leech Life. None of this stuff could ever happen in the newer games where every Pokemon has a wide movepool and all of the types are available very soon after the first few routes.
Also, whether intentional or not, the original games do benefit from some of the jank. Single player RPGs are often improved by having a few things that are unbalanced or broken. It wouldn't fly in a multiplayer game, but in single player it can be fun to use and account for an overpowered strategy. Red/Blue's jank is the reason why I replay them rather than FireRed/LeafGreen. The remakes smoothed over the rough edges but as a consequence, the Pokemon feel a lot weaker than in the original games.