[The Rare Canceled Game Art Thread]

The Awkward Wizard said:
What about the Rareware Archives (formally Spiral Mountain)? They seem pretty good; certainly better than Rare-Extreme. I've always wondered why MundoRare, one of the best Rare fansites, never got their tour, but Rare-Extreme got 2 tours.

In terms of Rareware Archives, I've never heard of it, but I'll have a look. The only fansites to tour Rare was Rarenet back in 1999, and then Rare-Extreme twice, once in 2003 if I recall correctly, and then early last year.

As to why MundoRare never got a tour, I think it had something to do with their sometimes 'sticky' relationship with Rare management. MR weren't afraid to criticise Rare's games, and did, often. In addition, they were based in Spain somewhere and being students, didn't have the funds to finance a trip to the English countryside. MR were often invited to Rare functions and press events, and in most cases had representatives there. But no, a tour was never really on the cards for MR.

On the other hand, Rare-Extreme was basically a mouth-piece for the company. Wozza wouldn't dare criticise Rare's games or direction, for a myriad of obvious reasons. Secondly, Wozza's real-life occupation is a search-engine consultant, so he knew how to manipulate R-E to the top of the Google rankings. From my experience, Rare never did much like R-E, but it was (somehow) the most fansite, their community was quite substantial, and the coverage was glowing. It made sense to collaborate, I guess.

And as far as canned projects go, I remember that when they laid off artists last March, Betteridge mentioned that they had projects in the works, and in an interview in 2008, Nick Burton said that "You'll be hearing soon enough" about those projects.

Rare's been saying "You'll be hearing soon enough" ever since E3 existed. It was alright for the first 5 or so years, because they actually did have things to show once E3 rolled around, and their presentations were exciting. Come 2002 and the acquisition though, every E3 passed by with nary a sound from Rare, and it got worse every year. Sure, you'd hear the latest updates on Viva Pinata or Nuts and Bolts, but they never revealed anything during the E3 pressers. Infact, Rare's biggest announcement since probably Star Fox Adventures was for Perfect Dark XBLA, and it didn't even feature in Microsoft's conference! It was released afterwards in a press release. Says it all, really.

Were those old Rare games, or the Kinect casual ones?

Rare still had core games in development, but at that point the writing was on the wall. Cynicism abounded at Rare during this period, culminating in the departure of icons like Kirkhope and Wise. It wasn't long after a few big projects had been canned, PD2, Goldeneye remake, Kameo 2, Conker's Other Bad Fur Day, etc.
 
The Awkward Wizard said:
By "XBLA", do you just mean just stuff like BK and PD XBLA enhanced ports, or brand new games developed for XBLA like Castle Crashers or 'Splosion Man?

And based on the Christmas card, I'm going to guess:
The racquet, the ball, and the ping pong paddle meant Kinect Sports
The bulldozer meant Blast Corps
The TJ boxing glove meant Killer Instinct
The green car meant a kart racer
The rocket means something (I have no idea)
And the snowglobe with the floating honey combs meant a new Banjo-Kazooie

Even if half of those are right, it's still so depressing...

Rare's always teased its fans with its annual Xmas cards. I wouldn't read much into it. (Will be interesting to see if there's one this year, Wil Overton was typically in charge of drawing them. He quit last month.)
 
3ur4zn said:
As to why MundoRare never got a tour, I think it had something to do with their sometimes 'sticky' relationship with Rare management. MR weren't afraid to criticise Rare's games, and did, often. In addition, they were based in Spain somewhere and being students, didn't have the funds to finance a trip to the English countryside. MR were often invited to Rare functions and press events, and in most cases had representatives there. But no, a tour was never really on the cards for MR.
In their goodbye article, they mentioned how, thanks to connections, the project would be shot at zero cost, but, now that I'm rereading it, it definitely seems that Rare didn't like MR criticizing them, especially their opinion on Kinect Sports. Was it Rare management, or Microsoft management that didn't like it?
Rare's been saying "You'll be hearing soon enough" ever since E3 existed. It was alright for the first 5 or so years, because they actually did have things to show once E3 rolled around, and their presentations were exciting. Come 2002 and the acquisition though, every E3 passed by with nary a sound from Rare, and it got worse every year. Sure, you'd hear the latest updates on Viva Pinata or Nuts and Bolts, but they never revealed anything during the E3 pressers. Infact, Rare's biggest announcement since probably Star Fox Adventures was for Perfect Dark XBLA, and it didn't even feature in Microsoft's conference! It was released afterwards in a press release. Says it all, really.
There was a big rumor that Rare was going to release 2 games in 2009, which would be revealed at E3. One was a first person shooter (Perfect Dark), and the other was an online brawler (Killer Instinct), Trying to find the original rumor source, I discovered that the website that started the rumor no longer exists, so I probably just believed the rumor because I really wanted it to be true.
Rare's always teased its fans with its annual Xmas cards. I wouldn't read much into it. (Will be interesting to see if there's one this year, Wil Overton was typically in charge of drawing them. He quit last month.)
Of course, it's what Rare does! (ex. KI3 stocking in BK Christmas Card) But Shiggy mentioned that the card gave some hints, so I'm guessing that at least one of the references (besides Kinect Sports) was legit.
 
3ur4zn said:
Rare's always teased its fans with its annual Xmas cards. I wouldn't read much into it. (Will be interesting to see if there's one this year, Wil Overton was typically in charge of drawing them. He quit last month.)

There was no card in 2010 already.


Don't really know about their canned XBLA games, sorry. Jet Force Gemini XBLA was before the portfolio change.


Of course, it's what Rare does! (ex. KI3 stocking in BK Christmas Card) But Shiggy mentioned that the card gave some hints, so I'm guessing that at least one of the references (besides Kinect Sports) was legit.

That's just my assumption. I know that there was something like a kart racer at least in concept stage.
 
Shiggy said:
Don't really know about their canned XBLA games, sorry. Jet Force Gemini XBLA was before the portfolio change.
So I guess 4J are done with converting old Rare titles? Because I really would have liked JFG :/
 
The Awkward Wizard said:
In their goodbye article, they mentioned how, thanks to connections, the project would be shot at zero cost, but, now that I'm rereading it, it definitely seems that Rare didn't like MR criticizing them, especially their opinion on Kinect Sports. Was it Rare management, or Microsoft management that didn't like it?

Microsoft were the ones who ultimately rejected the documentary, but I know the Stamper brothers liked nothing to do with the fansites. They didn't enjoy the focus, I believe, and considered the attention counterproductive. They were also, by most accounts, complete and utter joyless pricks. Jeton (from arguably the best Rare fansite, RareTopia) once went up to shake the hands of the Stamper's at an E3, and they flatly refused once he introduced himself. They were known for that sort of thing.

Following the Stamper's departure in 2007, Rare's interaction with the community expanded considerably, but some of the cautious sentiment lingered, and I think Mundorare just caught the round end of the stick, sadly.

There was a big rumor that Rare was going to release 2 games in 2009, which would be revealed at E3. One was a first person shooter (Perfect Dark), and the other was an online brawler (Killer Instinct), Trying to find the original rumor source, I discovered that the website that started the rumor no longer exists, so I probably just believed the rumor because I really wanted it to be true.

Well PD was definitely in development, but I still doubt KI was ever seriously considered. Sure, there's a loud chorus of fans for KI on the internet, but it would be a commerical disaster. MS isn't in the business of taking risks, especially with Rare.

Of course, it's what Rare does! (ex. KI3 stocking in BK Christmas Card) But Shiggy mentioned that the card gave some hints, so I'm guessing that at least one of the references (besides Kinect Sports) was legit.

I think fans started reading too deeply in the Xmas cards, ever since the 2000 (2001?) Xmas card included wrapped up PS2's, Xbox's and GameCube's. They've had one every year, and almost every year they include some cruel taunt to long-suffering fans, "clues" that never go anywhere.
 
Mojo said:
So I guess 4J are done with converting old Rare titles? Because I really would have liked JFG :/

I'm talking about an internal port as was GoldenEye 007, so it's happened much earlier than the 4J stuff.
 
Shiggy said:
I'm talking about an internal port as was GoldenEye 007, so it's happened much earlier than the 4J stuff.
Oh, do you still think there will be a 4J Studios Jet Force Gemini (or ports of other Rare titles)?
 
Mojo said:
Oh, do you still think there will be a 4J Studios Jet Force Gemini (or ports of other Rare titles)?

Highly doubt it. Even PD sold below expectations, so I can't see them putting the money into a niche classic like JFG.

You aren't the Mojo of former R-E forum fame, no? Was it not you who had a brief dalliance with R-E as a staff writer?
 
3ur4zn said:
You aren't the Mojo of former R-E forum fame, no? Was it not you who had a brief dalliance with R-E as a staff writer?
*Nods* Also from RareNet, though, only their forum works these days (and barely). Problem with being a news writer was that there was hardly any news :P
 
Shiggy said:
Did he say anything about the canned projects?

Sorry not asked since he left, but he never could tell me anything and i never pressed as i didnt want to get him in trouble. Now he sorted himself i will ask if he can divulge any info but i guess he may be bound to some NDA as terms of his redundy package though.
 
3ur4zn said:
Microsoft were the ones who ultimately rejected the documentary, but I know the Stamper brothers liked nothing to do with the fansites. They didn't enjoy the focus, I believe, and considered the attention counterproductive. They were also, by most accounts, complete and utter joyless pricks. Jeton (from arguably the best Rare fansite, RareTopia) once went up to shake the hands of the Stamper's at an E3, and they flatly refused once he introduced himself. They were known for that sort of thing.

I guess it's true what they say: "Never meet your heroes" :(
(On a different note, my interest for your Rare book-thing increases with each of your posts)

Well PD was definitely in development, but I still doubt KI was ever seriously considered. Sure, there's a loud chorus of fans for KI on the internet, but it would be a commerical disaster. MS isn't in the business of taking risks, especially with Rare.
So I take it that means that the KI 3 sheet music that appeared on the internet was either a pitch that wasn't greenlit or fake?
I think fans started reading too deeply in the Xmas cards, ever since the 2000 (2001?) Xmas card included wrapped up PS2's, Xbox's and GameCube's. They've had one every year, and almost every year they include some cruel taunt to long-suffering fans, "clues" that never go anywhere.
Shiggy said:
That's just my assumption. I know that there was something like a kart racer at least in concept stage.
Damn...
3ur4zn said:
Highly doubt it. Even PD sold below expectations, so I can't see them putting the money into a niche classic like JFG.
Speaking about game sales, in an interview, Nick Burton commented on PD:Z and Kameo's success, and mentioned how both products made money. Did Microsoft consider them successes? Also, how upset was Microsoft with Banjo-Kazooie Nuts & Bolts?

I mean, it is a Platinum Hits title, meaning that it sold over 400,000 units in its first 9 months of release, and that's about the same as Enslaved did on two platforms. And it's a children's game on the Xbox 360. How many children's games on the Xbox 360 sold better than it (besides Viva Pinata and Kameo)? Was Microsoft expecting it to sell millions? And why include Banjo in Sonic and Sega All Stars Racing if they weren't going to make a sequel soon? Were they planning on making BK:N&B 2, hoping that now that the brand has been established, they'll sell more with the sequel (like EA did with Dead Space 2) but abandoned said plans when Kinect, Natal at the time, was being passed around the MS studios and they realized that Rare could make Wii Kinect Sports?
 
So I take it that means that the KI 3 sheet music that appeared on the internet was either a pitch that wasn't greenlit or fake?

While I don't know about this one, I assume that this comment below the article is true:
I used to work at rare (In fact I worked on KI Gold an an early ver of Ki3) and I can say that with a high degree of certainty that….

A) You’re stupid if you believe this is true. Let us establish this first as its the for everything else:)

B) There is no table or floor like that in rare as its mostly a very uniformed building.

C) A KI theme tune will have the KI Motif running though this, stop giving some nerd on the internet a hardon by thinking his stuff is actually good enough to be palmed off.

I did some work on KI3 many years ago, I think 1999, it only went on for a few months then we got broken up and put on other things.
So that is perhaps the biggest indication that it might be possible to see a sequel to KI3, but Rare were still on good terms with Nintendo then.

KI as a game mostly relied on its great looks and combo system.

The problem they have is a lot of what made KI a good game is simply common ground now, they would struggle to make a good fighting game now because as an actual game it was NOT the best playing game out there and not as deep as Street Fighter 2, but as I said equally as fun for different reasons.

I agree KI3 would be good in theory, but it could easily turn out to be a huge disaster because the fighting game market has been exhausted in terms of graphics/gameplay and the bar has been raised to so high and I’m not sure they’re the same company as before, times have changed for better and for worse.


And why include Banjo in Sonic and Sega All Stars Racing if they weren't going to make a sequel soon?

Let's say it like this: One of the many pitches they made was a Banjo Racing title. When it wasn't greenlit, they still were able to put one of their cars into Sonic & Sega Racing.
 
The latest scribes is quite depressing.
Q: Dear Rare,
Are there plans to make a new platformer/adventure game some time soon? Similar maybe to Conker and Banjo, but something new? That’d be cool beans.
Alexander Van Broeck

A: Why do you hate Conker and Banjo so much, man? Suggesting we make a game that’s basically the same as the ones they were in, but refuse to let either of them be in it. So cold. Well, it’s all academic for now – with us ‘doing’ Kinect at the moment, we’re content to sit back and let other developers supply the required market share of platforming jiggerypokery.

They're not doing platformers or action/adventure games. Ever since the website change the responses changed from: "Who knows what'll happen in the future!" to "No."

Q: Hey Rare. Long time fan here. I know the exact words that come to mind when an asker says “old-time fan.” “Oh no. Not another crazed fanboy asking for a new Banjo/Conker/GoldenEye/whatever again!” you probably think. Well, though I WOULD like another game in those series, that’s not what my question is covering.
Simply put, my question is, when do you think we can expect an announcement of the fact that Rare is officially developing a new game? Of anything? Because the last Rare game released was Kinect Sports, and that was released five months ago (that’s almost half a year, Rare!) I honestly don’t care what game you might be developing, as long as it exists. So there.
I mean, can we at LEAST expect you to make an appearance at E3 2011? Thanks.
Brad the Man

A: Thing is, as the games get bigger and the tech gets more ambitious, it takes more and more people to drag a single project squawking hysterically across the finish line. The downside is the passing into history of those days with three or four publicly announced games on the slate; the upside is that each one gets more attention and is generally a bigger deal.
So while a trumpeting statement of Rare’s presence at E3 or any other event would be premature, unconfirmed and make headlines that would trigger stress nosebleeds all over the keyboards of Microsoft PR people, big trade show reveals are most likely to be the way forward. Keep ‘em peeled. And thanks for specifying your gender. Could have been awkward if we’d started flirting.

They won't even confirm E3 attendance. Sure Microsoft PR people nosebleed durr hurrr, it's really looking grim for the studio if they don't have anything in production.
 
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Is it still Leigh Loveday who maintains Rare's site? If so, I wish he'd jump ship and find a similar job elsewhere that's more suited to him. He used to shine and have an actual presence on Rareware's site. He was a brilliant face for the company, had a superb rapport with the fans, and made the site incredibly amusing and fun to browse. But now you can tell he's kept on an extremely short leash, as Rare are trying to go for the more serious "modern" image.


In fact, now that so many people have jumped ship, I actually wish the whole company would go under (assuming that everybody could find work elsewhere, of course). It's painful to watch Rare die slowly like this; I'd rather the plug was pulled, and the remaining talented people find similar roles with other developers.
 
What I don't understand is how Microsoft plans to keep buyers like me, who neither like Shooters nor Wii Sport rip offs and to whom traditional Rare games (say Banjo, Kameo, Conker) are the main reason for buying 360s? It's not as if there was a huge amount of great games in that vein on 360, so I'm really extremely disappointed with Rare's current direction and am less and less happy with my 360 as the months pass by.
 
The Awkward Wizard said:
So I take it that means that the KI 3 sheet music that appeared on the internet was either a pitch that wasn't greenlit or fake?

I'm certain that was debunked. Several fans actually uploaded videos of themselves playing the notes and it was quite messy and not something typical of Rare or in the style KI.

Speaking about game sales, in an interview, Nick Burton commented on PD:Z and Kameo's success, and mentioned how both products made money. Did Microsoft consider them successes? Also, how upset was Microsoft with Banjo-Kazooie Nuts & Bolts?

Kazooie sold 2 million copies in the US alone. Tooie sold a little less than that.

Nuts and Bolts sold 400,000. You do the math. = P


I
s it still Leigh Loveday who maintains Rare's site? If so, I wish he'd jump ship and find a similar job elsewhere that's more suited to him. He used to shine and have an actual presence on Rareware's site. He was a brilliant face for the company, had a superb rapport with the fans, and made the site incredibly amusing and fun to browse. But now you can tell he's kept on an extremely short leash, as Rare are trying to go for the more serious "modern" image.

Great post! Wholeheartedly agree. Leigh is curtailed so harshly these days. And yeah, he still still does the bulk of the media work, but has a few helpers sometimes. He always does Scribes, mind you. Remember monthly Scribes? Pages and pages of fascinating insight into Rare HQ, dripping with Leigh's mischievous sense of humor. Ah, to be young again. = (
 
Actually, Nick Burton has become the new communication manager and then there's that seperate community manager.

And now that they've laid off some guys, they were able to contract some cheap new staff.
 
IOnEI Falcon said:
Is the other community manager you are talking about Mike Wilson or Ben Talbot?

Mike Wilson, former web and community lead and now web producer - his new position seems to imply that there'll be no more message board interaction.
 
[Nintex] said:
The latest scribes is quite depressing.


They're not doing platformers or action/adventure games. Ever since the website change the responses changed from: "Who knows what'll happen in the future!" to "No."

This is the sadde...*cries*
 
Shiggy said:
Mike Wilson, former web and community lead and now web producer - his new position seems to imply that there'll be no more message board interaction.
Yeah, it seams like Ben Talbot is doing more of the message board interaction. He pops up on the Kinect Sports board on xbox.com once in a while. Before that, Mike was all over the forums on banjo-kazooie.com and the PD board on xbox.com.
 
3ur4zn said:
Microsoft were the ones who ultimately rejected the documentary, but I know the Stamper brothers liked nothing to do with the fansites. They didn't enjoy the focus, I believe, and considered the attention counterproductive. They were also, by most accounts, complete and utter joyless pricks. Jeton (from arguably the best Rare fansite, RareTopia) once went up to shake the hands of the Stamper's at an E3, and they flatly refused once he introduced himself. They were known for that sort of thing.

Following the Stamper's departure in 2007, Rare's interaction with the community expanded considerably, but some of the cautious sentiment lingered, and I think Mundorare just caught the round end of the stick, sadly.



Well PD was definitely in development, but I still doubt KI was ever seriously considered. Sure, there's a loud chorus of fans for KI on the internet, but it would be a commerical disaster. MS isn't in the business of taking risks, especially with Rare.



I think fans started reading too deeply in the Xmas cards, ever since the 2000 (2001?) Xmas card included wrapped up PS2's, Xbox's and GameCube's. They've had one every year, and almost every year they include some cruel taunt to long-suffering fans, "clues" that never go anywhere.
I dunno. Seems like an ultra violent fighting game might do better than a candy coated platformer on the XBox 360. MK still moves around 2 mil a game.
 
Chris Allcock just posted on twitter:

Someone wants to bottom out my design-facing issues, apparently. I don't know what that means so I'll assume it's about lava and ice levels.

I wonder what that is about. He still works at Rare as far as I know.
 
IOnEI Falcon said:
Chris Allcock just posted on twitter:

Someone wants to bottom out my design-facing issues, apparently. I don't know what that means so I'll assume it's about lava and ice levels.

I wonder what that is about. He still works at Rare as far as I know.

That's annoyingly cryptic. That Chris Allcock guy is an interesting artifact of Rare's history. I'm actually surprised he's still around.
 
IOnEI Falcon said:
Chris Allcock just posted on twitter:

Someone wants to bottom out my design-facing issues, apparently. I don't know what that means so I'll assume it's about lava and ice levels.

I wonder what that is about. He still works at Rare as far as I know.

Ice? Lava? Sounds like hell. Isn't the chamber where Satan resides in supposed to be absolute zero?
 
IOnEI Falcon said:
Someone wants to bottom out my design-facing issues, apparently. I don't know what that means so I'll assume it's about lava and ice levels.
I wonder what that is about.
Probably about nothing, Chris tweets about a bunch of random stuff like e-mail spam, office jokes and more.
 
IOnEI Falcon said:
And Kinect Sports just won Best Family Game BAFTA.

Only few people celebrate their own funeral.


IOnEI Falcon said:
Chris Allcock just posted on twitter:

Someone wants to bottom out my design-facing issues, apparently. I don't know what that means so I'll assume it's about lava and ice levels.

I wonder what that is about. He still works at Rare as far as I know.

Sounds like new sports!
 
Maybe if workers in the videogame industry would organize, they'd be able to do something about these mass layoffs we keep seeing.

But the sense I get is that people go in with the idea that they'll one day be the project leader on their own genius game idea. They don't want to think about their fellow worker until they're unceremoniously shitcanned.
 
IOnEI Falcon said:
Rare's lobby has a new mural...
Ouch.

I loved Rare, still defended them to the death even during their hard times this gen so it's sad to see that they're pretty much dead now outside of kinnect games.
 
REMEMBER CITADEL said:
Oh come on now, that's beyond pathetic.

I know! It really smelt! It'll take ages to clean the stage! :P

You know I'm never serious in my mocking. Except for when I am. But I'm not serious this time. Or most times.
 
It's just that the general sentiment permeating this thread is "old Rare is no more, new Rare and Microsoft - AND their families - should burn". Such "jokes" don't really help.

Yes, Rare has changed, significantly. Just let it go.
 
REMEMBER CITADEL said:
It's just that the general sentiment permeating this thread is "old Rare is no more, new Rare and Microsoft - AND their families - should burn". Such "jokes" don't really help.

Yes, Rare has changed, significantly. Just let it go.

Rare is not to blame for the change. So those saying that Rare employees and their families should burn don't know what the hell they are talking about.
 
IOnEI Falcon said:
Has anyone else heard about Craig Duncan taking the position of senior studio director at Rare?
Craig Duncan becomes Rare’s Senior Studio Director
According to a press release we got today from Microsoft, Craig Duncan became Rare’s Senior Studio Director. As a Senior Studio Director, Craig will be overseeing all aspects of product development and talent management at the Midlands based studio. In case you didn’t know, Craig has worked on some of the industry’s’ best known franchises including the Colin McRae Rally series and Sonic and Sega All Stars Racing.

Announcing Craig’s appointment Scott Henson Studio Manager said “Craig’s appointment strengthens the terrific team at Rare which was most recently responsible for the breakout hit Kinect Sports. Craig joins us at an exciting time and his experience will be key to ensuring that Rare continues to create innovative, industry-leading products which delight and entertain.”

Craig added “I’m thrilled to be taking on this leadership role at Rare; It is a studio with a great heritage and a consistent track record of creative innovation within Microsoft Game Studios. I’m looking forward to working with the exceptional talent at Rare to create amazing games that will see Rare establish its position as one of the world’s top game studios.”
 
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