[The Rare Canceled Game Art Thread]

Ghost said:
I really want to think that Rares set up is too good for MS to give up entirely, but with what they've got them doing now and the state of the UK industry now the tax breaks are shelved...worrying times.
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I believe MS gave up on Rare after Nuts & Bolts shipped and bombed. Rare even expected it to bomb given the dialogue found in the game:
Mumbo: "Bear must add floaters to boat otherwise boat sink like this game at retail"
Everything went downhill from there. It's not like Rare lacked ideas they had the wand for the Xbox Live Cam, MMO, Perfect Dark 2 and a bunch of other new IP's and sequels that they wanted to work on but MS never greenlit anything. I bet MS realized that funding games like Perfect Dark 2 to be the next 'killer-app' with Halo-like marketing and production values just wasn't worth it when they could just ship a Halo game every year.

Rare became 'old hat' so to speak and with most of their core fanbase on another console and games like Call of Duty and Forza taking the headlines there was little reason to focus on hit games from the studio.
 
[Nintex] said:
I believe MS gave up on Rare after Nuts & Bolts shipped and bombed. Rare even expected it to bomb given the dialogue found in the game:
Mumbo: "Bear must add floaters to boat otherwise boat sink like this game at retail"
Everything went downhill from there. It's not like Rare lacked ideas they had the wand for the Xbox Live Cam, MMO, Perfect Dark 2 and a bunch of other new IP's and sequels that they wanted to work on but MS never greenlit anything. I bet MS realized that funding games like Perfect Dark 2 to be the next 'killer-app' with Halo-like marketing and production values just wasn't worth it when they could just ship a Halo game every year.

Rare became 'old hat' so to speak and with most of their core fanbase on another console and games like Call of Duty and Forza taking the headlines there was little reason to focus on hit games from the studio.
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I wouldn't say that I would say that by 2006 there was certain male demographic that made the majority of 360 sales, where Rare games had no appeal.

They have made some excellent games this generation, though.
 
Linkified said:
I wouldn't say that I would say that by 2006 there was certain male demographic that made the majority of 360 sales, where Rare games had no appeal.

They have made some excellent games this generation, though.
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That's why after Viva Pinata they worked on titles that would've been more 'suitable' for the Xbox 360 fanbase. They had prototypes of all types of genres and visual styles some not Rare-like at all. But for some reason none of these projects were completed.

At some point, Rare could've doubled MS's first party output when all their teams had projects in the pipeline.
 
Looking at the success of Epic Mickey, would EA or Activision be interested in the Banjo franchise? I think a 3D platformer can sell given the right advertising and popular character.
 
Surprise, surprise the company that produced a massive steaming turd called Windows Vista as a flagship product doesn't know how to manage game developers....lol
What MS should have done is leave Rare with a relatively free hand.
 
[Nintex] said:
That's why after Viva Pinata they worked on titles that would've been more 'suitable' for the Xbox 360 fanbase. They had prototypes of all types of genres and visual styles some not Rare-like at all. But for some reason none of these projects were completed.

At some point, Rare could've doubled MS's first party output when all their teams had projects in the pipeline.
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I would say then theres other factors at play, maybe they weren't good at pitching ideas/games to Microsofts money mind.
 
I AM JOHN! said:
I blame every single one of you who didn't buy Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts and Bolts for this.
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Pretty much this ^ It was a brilliant game, but with narrow appeal.

Which of their IP's do they actually own the rights to? I don't think they'll just let them all die, and there must be a publisher somewhere that wants to buy the rights. Nintendo wont do it because they have enough franchises already.

The room is looking pretty empty right about now :(
 
Linkified said:
I would say then theres other factors at play, maybe they weren't good at pitching ideas/games to Microsofts money mind.
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Or hey, maybe they weren't up to the desired level of quality. Or do people really think Microsoft would turn down potential money-makers just because?


Woffls said:
Pretty much this ^ It was a brilliant game, but with narrow appeal.
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Well, I did my part, I have Kameo, PDZ, Viva Pinata and Banjo, and I don't even have the console :-/
 
REMEMBER CITADEL said:
Or hey, maybe they weren't up to the desired level of quality. Or do people really think Microsoft would turn down potential money-makers just because?
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No I actually agree, they wouldn't turn down potential money makers but you know if Rare really wanted to make those games maybe they should of pitched the idea better as well.
 
i've liked many rare games like dkc 1 and 2, killer instinct, perfect dark, star fox adventures, and conker

but i LOVED goldeneye, banjo kazooie, dkc 3, dkr, and jet force FUCKING gemini

i NEED a jfg 2
 
Seriously, it must have been a huge culture shock to be taken over by MS.
While Nintendo-era Rare delayed stuff for ages, Nintendo did too so I guess they allowed it.
MS, with there less creatively oriented systems-software culture may have demanded a different set of outcomes.

Anyway, I didn't take the obligatory Ode to Rare in my previous post.
On the N64 I owned BK, BT, JFG, DKR and DK64 and I held Rare in high regard.
Their output was VERY welcome when N64's releases slowed to a trickle.
They got caught in a few gameplay cliches, but for the most part their games were polished.

Probably, MS never really bought Rare just destroyed it.
Because with the MS purchase came the end of a multi-generational symbiotic relationship with Nintendo and the leadership of the Stamper brothers.
Maybe it was silly to imagine that Rare as we knew it would not have skipped a beat.
Though I don't think even the most pessimistic of us expected this steady decline.

RIP Rare, Long Live Rare.
 
Talladega Knight said:
but i LOVED goldeneye, banjo kazooie, dkc 3, dkr, and jet force FUCKING gemini

i NEED a jfg 2
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I've never been able to confirm this but apparently Jet Force Gemini XBLA was scheduled for release at the end of 2010 at some point.
 
Linkified said:
No I actually agree, they wouldn't turn down potential money makers but you know if Rare really wanted to make those games maybe they should of pitched the idea better as well.
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True, it's probably a combination of the two, and maybe some other factors as well.
 
Diffense said:
Surprise, surprise the company that produced a massive steaming turd called Windows Vista as a flagship product doesn't know how to manage game developers....lol
What MS should have done is leave Rare with a relatively free hand.
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That didn't work either and was what made Microsoft let the Stampers "leave" in 2007. Rare lacked direction during the times of "free hand" - just look at PD Zero and it's various style changes. Another example is Kameo, which has little in common with the initial concept. And not to mention Sabreman Stampede ;)
 
[Nintex] said:
I've never been able to confirm this but apparently Jet Force Gemini XBLA was scheduled for release at the end of 2010 at some point.
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Where'd you hear this? There was a playable build, that's true, still rough around the edges, but still playable. You know why it wasn't released? The main guy who worked on it left the company :)
 
Shiggy said:
Where'd you hear this? There was a playable build, that's true, still rough around the edges, but still playable. You know why it wasn't released? The main guy who worked on it left the company :)
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I believe it was a case of a few Rare fans jumping to conclusions that Major Nelsons: "Rare has more surprises this year" comment was related to the XBLA version of Get Force Gemini that was just uncovered.

Just like how many thought that the line: "And this is just the start of the latest conspiracy..." in the description of the Perfect Dark XBLA theme indicated that a Perfect Dark 2 announcement was near.

Also shiggy with the art team gone I guess they can't make assets for the Halo remake after all... there goes our speculation :P
 
Shiggy said:
Where'd you hear this? There was a playable build, that's true, still rough around the edges, but still playable. You know why it wasn't released? The main guy who worked on it left the company :)
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Blimey man, the day you do a post/thread detailing the many goings on at Rare will be a day worth remembering :P

The thought of a playable version of JFG XBLA is exciting, pity we'll now likely never see it. Unless 4J is now working on it.
 
apana said:
Looking at the success of Epic Mickey, would EA or Activision be interested in the Banjo franchise? I think a 3D platformer can sell given the right advertising and popular character.
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Well, perhaps Activision because they worked with Eurocom with Goldeneye Wii, and Eurocom's made good platformers, such as Spyro: A Hero's Tail and Ice Age 2.

If you mean them being interested as meaning MS would sell Banjo to them, not licensing (which they wouldn't do anyway).

Activision and Eurocom can do the same thing again and remake Banjo for Wii, that'd be genius really.

And Eurocom actually had the balls to say that Goldeneye belongs on Wii, they'd very likely say the same about Banjo.
 
Hero of Legend said:
Well, perhaps Activision because they worked with Eurocom with Goldeneye Wii, and Eurocom's made good platformers, such as Spyro: A Hero's Tail and Ice Age 2.

If you mean them being interested as meaning MS would sell Banjo to them, not licensing (which they wouldn't do anyway).
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Licensing for an exclusive would be more likely than MS selling any of their IP's.
 
Shiggy said:
That didn't work either and was what made Microsoft let the Stampers "leave" in 2007. Rare lacked direction during the times of "free hand" - just look at PD Zero and it's various style changes. Another example is Kameo, which has little in common with the initial concept. And not to mention Sabreman Stampede ;)
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Yeah, that's true.
It seems there were systemic problems as well.
But then, MS didn't have sense of direction to do anything about it.
Look at the difference with Nintendo and Retrostudios after Spangenburg's chaos.
 
apana said:
Looking at the success of Epic Mickey, would EA or Activision be interested in the Banjo franchise? I think a 3D platformer can sell given the right advertising and popular character.
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Activision has Crash and Spyro already.
This isnt pokemon, they dont need to catch every mascot character up for grabs.
 
I think MS learned a valuable leasson from the Rare purchase, which has dictated their relations with companies like Bizarre, Bungie, and Ensemble, which is that talent and IPs are what is valuable, and without them you are stuck with big expensive buildings full of disgruntled people.
 
[Nintex] said:
I've never been able to confirm this but apparently Jet Force Gemini XBLA was scheduled for release at the end of 2010 at some point.
Click to expand...
This NEEDs to come out. Even if they don't create new textures, just port it plz

Shiggy said:
You know why it wasn't released? The main guy who worked on it left the company :)
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So what would 4J be doing now?
 
i just want to hear that wonderful soundtrack blairing through my surround sound system!!

damn jfg had an amazing soundtrack!! and pretty sweet graphics, maybe a bit ambitious at times, but sweet nonetheless.

i got a huge metroid/mega man feel while playing it. makes me wonder if nintendo ever fiddled with giving rare the metroid license before they settled on retro...
 
Lijik said:
Activision has Crash and Spyro already.
This isnt pokemon, they dont need to catch every mascot character up for grabs.
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Banjo still has some dignity left unlike those two.
 
In all honestly, while I do own Nuts and Bolts, I find it a chore to play. I've tried to like it, but every single time I try to play it again, I stop after a while. I just don't find the vehicle building and gameplay any fun at all. Would have preferred a real sequel myself, or some other kind of 3D platformer reminiscent of the old N64 days. I love the old games, mind.

As it is, I just can't bring myself to play it. Personally, I don't understand where all the praise comes from.
 
Shiggy said:
That didn't work either and was what made Microsoft let the Stampers "leave" in 2007. Rare lacked direction during the times of "free hand" - just look at PD Zero and it's various style changes. Another example is Kameo, which has little in common with the initial concept. And not to mention Sabreman Stampede ;)
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Someone correct me if I'm wrong but that's not my understanding of the situation.

The whole reason the Stamper Bros wanted to sell Rare is because they wanted to get out of the gaming industry altogether. They were sick of the politics. Apparently, Howard Lincoln (former chairman of NoA) used to be the "go to" man that would be a "go-between" between Rare and NCL. When he left Nintendo, they lost their "main man" as it were.

Once the company was sold to MS, the brothers only agreed to stay on for the transitional phase. Once the handover was complete, they bailed - as per the agreement.

Incidentally, the brothers (notoriously camera shy) are now apparently working in their former base at Twycross, Midlands, UK.

Some Rare insider needs to approach a publisher for a book and set the record straight. Could be a fascinating read.
 
M.I.S. said:
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but that's not my understanding of the situation.

The whole reason the Stamper Bros wanted to sell Rare is because they wanted to get out of the gaming industry altogether. They were sick of the politics. Apparently, Howard Lincoln (former chairman of NoA) used to be the "go to" man that would be a "go-between" between Rare and NCL. When he left Nintendo, they lost their "main man" as it were.

Once the company was sold to MS, the brothers only agreed to stay on for the transitional phase. Once the handover was complete, they bailed - as per the agreement.

Incidentally, the brothers (notoriously camera shy) are now apparently working in their former base at Twycross, Midlands, UK.

Some Rare insider needs to approach a publisher for a book and set the record straight. Could be a fascinating read.
Click to expand...

The Stampers thought it was a good deal to sell their stake, still they wanted to retain their positions. It was Joel Hochberg who wanted to leave the company entirely, that's what also happened - or has anybody heard of him after 2002?
Rare's "go to" man at NoA were Lincoln and Ken Lobb, both left during 2001/2002 when Activision and Microsoft were taking a look at Rare. Their departures were not a reason for the Stampers to get away from "their" company - in fact, they may not be too happy to have their company sold in 2002.

Microsoft tried to initiate some drastic changes concerning management, but it has not worked out yet. Old reports indicate that the Stampers were great for leading a small company, but lacked the capabilities to direct a grown software studio. When they were "asked to leave"/ take a different position, Microsoft put some other Rare people into their positions. 2007-2009 was the phase of various prototypes and unreleased accessories for Rare. In early 2009, there was another restructuring which we all heard about - all projects cancelled and Natal-only. When the results were still not satisfying, management was reviewed once again. Again, just like the Stampers, Betteridge was "asked to step down".

That's just nicer for PR reasons, both Microsoft and the Stampers (and even Betteridge) were able to keep face.
 
I don't know if you guys saw Chris Seavor's Tweet, but this is interesting to me:

"A little acorn has dropped from it's mighty, but dying old tree and flourished anew."
http://www.digital-storytime.com/review.php?id=122
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Indeed, this iPad storybook has art by Ed Bryan (Art Director at RARE Ltd, worked on Banjo-Kazooie, Banjo-Tooie, Donkey Kong 64, Grabbed by the Ghoulies, Viva Pinata, Viva Pinata:Trouble in Paradise, Kinect Sports) and music by Robin Beanland (my all personal favorite RARE composer.)

Presumably, then, both are now gone from Rare. Or maybe just Ed?

Regardless, I hope this thread can become Rare Employee Tracker. I'll miss those all of those guys more than you can imagine -- it was a personal golden era of gaming for me.

(Trivia: it's nerdy as hell, but I once won an Xbox by writing an essay about the future of Rare with Microsoft for some Rare fan website. I remember trying to be optimistic but knowing the future was grim. I wonder if I can find that somewhere...)

Also, you can get a free version of that storybook here. I'm downloading now!
 
cabel said:
I don't know if you guys saw Chris Seavor's Tweet, but this is interesting to me:



Indeed, this iPad storybook has art by Ed Bryan (Art Director at RARE Ltd, worked on Banjo-Kazooie, Banjo-Tooie, Donkey Kong 64, Grabbed by the Ghoulies, Viva Pinata, Viva Pinata:Trouble in Paradise, Kinect Sports) and music by Robin Beanland (my all personal favorite RARE composer.)

Presumably, then, both are now gone from Rare. Or maybe just Ed?

Regardless, I hope this thread can become Rare Employee Tracker. I'll miss those all of those guys more than you can imagine -- it was a personal golden era of gaming for me.

(Trivia: it's nerdy as hell, but I once won an Xbox by writing an essay about the future of Rare with Microsoft for some Rare fan website. I remember trying to be optimistic but knowing the future was grim. I wonder if I can find that somewhere...)

Also, you can get a free version of that storybook here. I'm downloading now!
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As soon as the music started in that trailer I knew it had to be Beanland's. In the words of Seavor... yes the old tree seems to be dying now.
 
Shiggy said:
The Stampers thought it was a good deal to sell their stake, still they wanted to retain their positions. It was Joel Hochberg who wanted to leave the company entirely, that's what also happened - or has anybody heard of him after 2002?
Rare's "go to" man at NoA were Lincoln and Ken Lobb, both left during 2001/2002 when Activision and Microsoft were taking a look at Rare. Their departures were not a reason for the Stampers to get away from "their" company - in fact, they may not be too happy to have their company sold in 2002.

Microsoft tried to initiate some drastic changes concerning management, but it has not worked out yet. Old reports indicate that the Stampers were great for leading a small company, but lacked the capabilities to direct a grown software studio. When they were "asked to leave"/ take a different position, Microsoft put some other Rare people into their positions. 2007-2009 was the phase of various prototypes and unreleased accessories for Rare. In early 2009, there was another restructuring which we all heard about - all projects cancelled and Natal-only. When the results were still not satisfying, management was reviewed once again. Again, just like the Stampers, Betteridge was "asked to step down".

That's just nicer for PR reasons, both Microsoft and the Stampers (and even Betteridge) were able to keep face.
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A) Why hasn't a game "journalist"/blogger interviewed you about this yet?
B) Why hasn't someone written a book about Rare's rise and fall
C) Can someone start a list of notable Rare employees who have left?
 
cabel said:
I once won an Xbox by writing an essay about the future of Rare with Microsoft for some Rare fan website.
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RAREnet.com? They did a "Win an Xbox" contest after the sale back in 2002, but I don't recall what the requirements for winning were.
 
I AM JOHN! said:
I blame every single one of you who didn't buy Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts and Bolts for this.
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I'm such a RARE fan that I purchased it day one just because I wanted to support them. Didn't play it til months later due to a huge backlog and I have to say N&B is the most boring and monotonous title I've ever played from RARE. How this got greenlit instead of a conventional Banjo platformer is beyond me.
 
Seavor has updated his bio:
Recently deceased from Rare. Since then i've had 4 ideas in total, one of which is alright but had nothing to do with design..Which is a shame.
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So officially offiicial now.
 
Loveday is still at Rare. At least he was, up until two days ago.

In regards to why someone hasn't written a book, I'm on it. I've interviewed about five Rare employees who have departed the company since the golden age, including Kirkhope, and I've been blessed with the assistance of nearly all the major Rare fansite (RE, RareTopia, RWP, MundoRare) founders, who've helped fill in the history gaps and provided a insider's perspective of the behind the scenes goings-on over the years.

It started as purely a personal project, due to my great love of Rare, but it's slowly growing into something I think many will find fascinating. Eventually, anyway. = P

In regards to the depressingly lengthly list of former Rare employees who've moved on, here's the bigger personalities that I'm aware of:

Kirkhope
Overton
Norgate
Wise
Bayliss
Seavor
Hollis
Doak
Ed Bryan
Steve Malpass
Mark Wilson

It pains me to think Rare once had all that talent in a single building. Argh. Add to the list if you can think of more!
 
3ur4zn said:
Loveday is still at Rare. At least he was, up until two days ago.

In regards to why someone hasn't written a book, I'm on it. I've interviewed about five Rare employees who have departed the company since the golden age, including Kirkhope, and I've been blessed with the assistance of nearly all the major Rare fansite (RE, RareTopia, RWP, MundoRare) founders, who've helped fill in the history gaps and provided a insider's perspective of the behind the scenes goings-on over the years.

It started as purely a personal project, due to my great love of Rare, but it's slowly growing into something I think many will find fascinating. Eventually, anyway. = P
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When is it finished and can you give us more information on the current situation.
 
3ur4zn said:
Loveday is still at Rare. At least he was, up until two days ago.

In regards to why someone hasn't written a book, I'm on it. I've interviewed about five Rare employees who have departed the company since the golden age, including Kirkhope, and I've been blessed with the assistance of nearly all the major Rare fansite (RE, RareTopia, RWP, MundoRare) founders, who've helped fill in the history gaps and provided a insider's perspective of the behind the scenes goings-on over the years.

It started as purely a personal project, due to my great love of Rare, but it's slowly growing into something I think many will find fascinating. Eventually, anyway. = P
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I would buy such a book.
 
Rare needs to be able to do a proper Banjo platformer, Kameo 2 and Perfect Dark 2 with some decent marketing and hype for each title.

Oh and don't release their games one week after the release of a blockbuster title (ex: Nuts and Bolts released a week after Gears 2). You're just asking for it to get slaughtered at that point.
 
3ur4zn said:
Loveday is still at Rare. At least he was, up until two days ago.

In regards to why someone hasn't written a book, I'm on it. I've interviewed about five Rare employees who have departed the company since the golden age, including Kirkhope, and I've been blessed with the assistance of nearly all the major Rare fansite (RE, RareTopia, RWP, MundoRare) founders, who've helped fill in the history gaps and provided a insider's perspective of the behind the scenes goings-on over the years.

It started as purely a personal project, due to my great love of Rare, but it's slowly growing into something I think many will find fascinating. Eventually, anyway. = P
Click to expand...
Awesome! Any general idea for the release date? I look forward to buying it!
 
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