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[llien]

"Germany's labor minister wants to enshrine into law the right to work from home if it is feasible to do so, even after the coronavirus pandemic subsides," reports the Associated Press: Labor Minister Hubertus Heil told Sunday's edition of the Bild am Sonntag newspaper that he aims to put forward such legislation this fall. He said initial estimates suggest the proportion of the work force working from home has risen from 12% to 25% during the virus crisis, to around 8 million people. "Everyone who wants to and whose job allows it should be able to work in a home office, even when the corona pandemic is over," Heil was quoted as saying. "We are learning in the pandemic how much work can be done from home these days."

Heil stressed that "we want to enable more home working, but not force it." He said people could choose to switch entirely to working from home, or do so for only one or two days per week. The labor minister had already been calling for a right to work at home back in December, the article notes.

 

[jufonuk]

Would be nice to happen in other countries.

 

[haxan7]

Need to stop enshrining shit into law that isn't Government's business. Did Germany learn nothing...?

 

[Stiflers Mom]

This would be big, if it really happens...

 

[Djau]

Within the context of healthcare, automation coming, and other problems that we must solve FAST; this is a great advancement!

Need to stop enshrining shit into law that isn't Government's business. Did Germany learn nothing...?

Society cannot function with a toothless government.

 

[SKM1]

This seems like a legal quagmire. Who is responsible for determining if working from home is feasible in a given area?
Seems like a governmental overreach.

 

[Papa]

Within the context of healthcare, automation coming, and other problems that we must solve FAST; this is a great advancement!



Society cannot function with a toothless government.

Quit possibly one of the most ignorant statements I’ve ever read. The Nazis weren’t toothless. The Soviets weren’t toothless. The CCP aren’t toothless. Having teeth is not necessarily indicative of an effective government.

 

[The Scrivener]

Try to think of the most ridiculous people for the job.

Waitress?

 

[Djau]

Quit possibly one of the most ignorant statements I’ve ever read. The Nazis weren’t toothless. The Soviets weren’t toothless. The CCP aren’t toothless. Having teeth is not necessarily indicative of an effective government.

A country implementing correct procedures for handling a pandemic and being forced to end them early because there is no system in place to make sure citizen basic needs are met (such as the furlough system) is every definition of the word.

 

[Papa]

A country implementing correct procedures for handling a pandemic and being forced to end them early because there is no system in place to make sure citizen basic needs are met (such as the furlough system) is every definition of the word.

"Everyone who wants to and whose job allows it should be able to work in a home office, even when the corona pandemic is over”

This isn’t just about pandemic response. It’s a fundamental change to the employer-employee dynamic that an effective government has no business sticking its nose into. The place of work should be agreed between the employer and employee without coercion. Moreover, we have evolved as a species to work in groups, and such changes therefore have the potential to negatively affect productivity. This is not something that a bureaucrat from a central authority should be tinkering with. It’s not their place.

 

[Djau]

"Everyone who wants to and whose job allows it should be able to work in a home office, even when the corona pandemic is over”

This isn’t just about pandemic response. It’s a fundamental change to the employer-employee dynamic that an effective government has no business sticking its nose into. The place of work should be agreed between the employer and employee without coercion. Moreover, we have evolved as a species to work in groups, and such changes therefore have the potential to negatively affect productivity. This is not something that a bureaucrat from a central authority should be tinkering with. It’s not their place.

Your far far too locked into viewing the present and the past. The future is going to come with automation, worse pandemics and climate change; how we work must be re-considered and even the current pandemic is teaching us this. This is a considerable point of weakness as people have to consider either coming into work risking their own safety for a pittance compared to what the top dogs of the company makes or stay at home and be unable to feed themselves/pay bills/support a family.

Theres a couple of ways the future can play out. Either those jobs who can work from home; work from home...or we implement universal basic income. I'm more fond of the working from home option for jobs that can function that way.

You think people are going to care about the Employer-Employee dynamic when Employers never considered their Employees before? The coercion is already there; just on the Employer's side.

Who's place is it to regulate society? The 1%?

 

[Cunth]

You really love regulations bro

 

[Djau]

You really love regulations bro

Its really the only way to fix problems nowadays as people are pretty stupid.

 

[Cunth]

Its really the only way to fix problems nowadays as people are pretty stupid.

lol what a fricken fascist

 

[Reptars Revenge]

Try to think of the most ridiculous people for the job.

Waitress?

Bus driver

 

[Djau]

lol what a fricken fascist

Lol. Well, I'm not injecting bleach at least.

 

[Cunth]

Lol. Well, I'm not injecting bleach at least.

Hurr durr u must be smarter than everyone

 

[Cutty Flam]

Fry up summa dat der Weinerschitzel in the German homes

Dasssssssss BOOOOOT!!!!!!!!!

 

[Greedings]

Cool, but where I work, it will still be frowned upon.

 

[Papa]

Your far far too locked into viewing the present and the past. The future is going to come with automation, worse pandemics and climate change; how we work must be re-considered and even the current pandemic is teaching us this. This is a considerable point of weakness as people have to consider either coming into work risking their own safety for a pittance compared to what the top dogs of the company makes or stay at home and be unable to feed themselves/pay bills/support a family.

Theres a couple of ways the future can play out. Either those jobs who can work from home; work from home...or we implement universal basic income. I'm more fond of the working from home option for jobs that can function that way.

You think people are going to care about the Employer-Employee dynamic when Employers never considered their Employees before? The coercion is already there; just on the Employer's side.

Who's place is it to regulate society? The 1%?

Gibberish

Go and get some real world experience before trying to change it, kiddo

 

[Papa]

Lol. Well, I'm not injecting bleach at least.

Don’t knock it til you try it. I hear it reduces carbon emissions.

 

[Mistake]

This actually reminds me of a law they had to make in California about letting cashiers sit down. Someone had to sue to make it happen. With the age of technology growing every day, I understand some privacy concerns and data that needs to stay at work and be monitored, but I also see this as something that can help people with families. It needs balance, but it’s not going to happen at all without a push

 

[SKM1]

Its really the only way to fix problems nowadays as people are pretty stupid.

And who do you think will enforce these regulations?

 

[mickaus]

While I don’t think the government should get too focused on making such changes now, just ensuring survival of people and the economy is fine for now, I think such a move could be positive. After all we have regulations dealing with full time, part time, casual, working visas etc., perhaps Germany’s move could lead to a sort of global standard of sorts where different countries have similar regulations dealing with working at home.

 

[Haemi]

Quit possibly one of the most ignorant statements I’ve ever read. The Nazis weren’t toothless. The Soviets weren’t toothless. The CCP aren’t toothless. Having teeth is not necessarily indicative of an effective government.

Material conditional - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It’s a fundamental change to the employer-employee dynamic that an effective government has no business sticking its nose into.

One of the jobs of a goverment is to ensure balance. The employer is in a stronger position. You need laws to prevent exploitations of employees.

And who do you think will enforce these regulations?

Legislature, executive, judiciary ... Sue your employer. Afterwards he will find a way to get rid of you, but you will find another job and he will get his punishment.

 

[Herr Edgy]

lmao

people here really think changing law is something that a government shouldn't do

lmao

 

[SKM1]

lmao

people here really think changing law is something that a government shouldn't do

lmao

How about you quote someone and make a coherent argument instead of being a coward?

 

[Djau]

Gibberish

Go and get some real world experience before trying to change it, kiddo

Cute. You'll find America is the outlier though.

And who do you think will enforce these regulations?

The police, the courts etc.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

That seems like a very strange thing to guarantee by law, but at the same time, the decentralization is in progress in the West. The internet makes megacities obsolete. Germany may be ahead of the curve on this one. I've been working from home since the lockdown began without any interruption to my job duties or pay scale. If more businesses were able to operate at partial capacity by working from home, it would make the economy more resilient during an outbreak, logically speaking? Certain businesses would be affected, no question, but if the total hit to the economy could be reduced, it seems like a worthy pursuit to me.

Makes sense to incentivize businesses that offer flexibility of work-from-home. A gov't keeping (pulling numbers out of thin air) 70% of your economy running while the rest of the world can only keep 30% of the economy running during a lockdown is a genuine competitive advantage.

Yoshi is the only german whose opinion I trust so I need to hear his take on it.

 

[Cunth]

That seems like a very strange thing to guarantee by law, but at the same time, the decentralization is in progress in the West. The internet makes megacities obsolete. Germany may be ahead of the curve on this one. I've been working from home since the lockdown began without any interruption to my job duties or pay scale. If more businesses were able to operate at partial capacity by working from home, it would make the economy more resilient during an outbreak, logically speaking? Certain businesses would be affected, no question, but if the total hit to the economy could be reduced, it seems like a worthy pursuit to me.

Makes sense to incentivize businesses that offer flexibility of work-from-home. A gov't keeping (pulling numbers out of thin air) 70% of your economy running while the rest of the world can only keep 30% of the economy running during a lockdown is a genuine competitive advantage.

Yoshi is the only german whose opinion I trust so I need to hear his take on it.

lol u trust yoshi

 

[SKM1]

That seems like a very strange thing to guarantee by law, but at the same time, the decentralization is in progress in the West. The internet makes megacities obsolete. Germany may be ahead of the curve on this one. I've been working from home since the lockdown began without any interruption to my job duties or pay scale. If more businesses were able to operate at partial capacity by working from home, it would make the economy more resilient during an outbreak, logically speaking? Certain businesses would be affected, no question, but if the total hit to the economy could be reduced, it seems like a worthy pursuit to me.

Makes sense to incentivize businesses that offer flexibility of work-from-home. A gov't keeping (pulling numbers out of thin air) 70% of your economy running while the rest of the world can only keep 30% of the economy running during a lockdown is a genuine competitive advantage.

Yoshi is the only german whose opinion I trust so I need to hear his take on it.

Incentives are the key here, not a nebulous 'right'.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

Incentives are the key here, not a nebulous 'right'.

Hey, you're speaking my language. I'm more for minimal gov't and incentivizing desired behavior, but that isn't how the German gov't operates.

Will the end result be different if Germany mandates it as a 'right' instead of incentivizing it? I'm not sure.

 

[Djau]

Incentives are the key here, not a nebulous 'right'.

How do you do that; when government had to get involved to get cashiers seats?

 

[Yoshi]

That seems like a very strange thing to guarantee by law, but at the same time, the decentralization is in progress in the West. The internet makes megacities obsolete. Germany may be ahead of the curve on this one. I've been working from home since the lockdown began without any interruption to my job duties or pay scale. If more businesses were able to operate at partial capacity by working from home, it would make the economy more resilient during an outbreak, logically speaking? Certain businesses would be affected, no question, but if the total hit to the economy could be reduced, it seems like a worthy pursuit to me.

Makes sense to incentivize businesses that offer flexibility of work-from-home. A gov't keeping (pulling numbers out of thin air) 70% of your economy running while the rest of the world can only keep 30% of the economy running during a lockdown is a genuine competitive advantage.

Yoshi is the only german whose opinion I trust so I need to hear his take on it.

In Germany, it is not unusual that rights for workers that may be slightly to the detriment of the employer are enforced by law, e.g. there are pretty strict laws regulating when and who you can fire and it is being discussed to give a right to change between full- and part-time. Such rules usually scale to the size of the company, so if you are a huge company, worker's rights are quite a bit stronger than if you are a small family business.

Now when it comes to working remotely (or, as it is called in Germany: home office), this has been an increasing benefit companies promise their workers and on the rise, but Germany's infrastructure in terms of high speed internet is not that great. I think it is reasonable to introduce such a right for certain jobs, but it is of course only feasible for some jobs.

 

[llien]

Need to stop enshrining shit into law that isn't Government's business. Did Germany learn nothing...?

Such as employer having to grant at least 25 working days of vacation, or paying up to 43 days of ill-off days.
Or restricting max number of hours someone could be forced to work.

I think Germany has learned that's the right way.

 

[oagboghi2]

Your far far too locked into viewing the present and the past. The future is going to come with automation, worse pandemics and climate change; how we work must be re-considered and even the current pandemic is teaching us this. This is a considerable point of weakness as people have to consider either coming into work risking their own safety for a pittance compared to what the top dogs of the company makes or stay at home and be unable to feed themselves/pay bills/support a family.

Theres a couple of ways the future can play out. Either those jobs who can work from home; work from home...or we implement universal basic income. I'm more fond of the working from home option for jobs that can function that way.

You think people are going to care about the Employer-Employee dynamic when Employers never considered their Employees before? The coercion is already there; just on the Employer's side.

Who's place is it to regulate society? The 1%?

Why am I not surprised. People always try to justify stupid regulations based on a irrational fear of the future.

"Blah blah robots, blah blah blah climate change, blah blah whatever. I shouldn't have to go to work anymore. Pay me to sleep in as I work remotely. My employer should bend to my schedule."

 

[Djau]

Why am I not surprised. People always try to justify stupid regulations based on a irrational fear of the future.

"Blah blah robots, blah blah blah climate change, blah blah whatever. I shouldn't have to go to work anymore. Pay me to sleep in as I work remotely. My employer should bend to my schedule."

Living in the past leads to irrelevancy in the future. That's why China and India are going to rise higher than America in the future.

 

[Moogle11]

It would be nice if more managers and owners realized the benefits of this after being forced to do it for a while.

Not all jobs can be done from home of course, but many can and lots of evidence shows people are as or more productive. Helps cut down on traffic and pollution as well. And it saves companies money as they don’t have to pay for as much office space if part of their workforce is working from home. And puts more money in workers’ pockets from spending money on gas (and parking for lots of city workers) or public transit.

Ideally there would be flexibility as some people don’t like working from home at all (and it can suck if you don’t have space for a nice home office setup) and some like doing a mix with a couple days in the office each week. Overall, you’re going to have a healthier, happier and more productive workforce If you let people have more flexibility in where and when they work. Anyone not meeting standards gets fired and replaced like always.

I don’t have a horse in this race as I’ve been able to work from home and largely set my own schedule for ages and my wife’s company was already going fully work home this summer and sped those plans up with this shutdown. I just know from experience how much better that is for us having worked both ways and hope more people get more flexibility in how and when they work for jobs where that is feasible. We get more work done, are happier and less stressed, healthier from exercising more (more time with not commuting everyday) and eat better from cooking more meals at home and less eating out or having processed foods for breakfast or lunch.

 

[lock2k]

I want to go to the office as fast as I can.

I used to think working from home was like a godsend wonderland and now I think it's total hell.

I mean, I used to love when I worked from home as a freelancer, but with people watching you 24/7 like fucking Skynet it's not cool. Plus, my daughter interrupting me every 5 minutes is a pain in the ass and I hate having to wash my dishes. Eating at restaurants was so good. I could just walk away.

 

[eot]

I'll be honest I'm shit at working from home, getting much less done

 

[Djau]

The research says flexitime and/or home working; as well as offices that are much more spaced out between people, with a lot of windows and green plants (more O2) provide for much higher levels of productivity. More incentives for employees help too. Stuffy offices, crowded, dimly lit and stressful environments are all much worse.

Not everyone will like it; but theres no reason the majority of office work couldn't be done at home leaving that wasted space in office buildings freed to be used for more efficient tasks.

 

[RedVIper]

lmao

people here really think changing law is something that a government shouldn't do

lmao

It's more about government putting in excessive regulation.

I have no issues with people working from home. But how exactly is the government going to regulate this, how and who is going to decide if the job is "viable" to be done from home?

Also bitching about automation and workers rights in the same breath is pretty stupid. Workers rights make you less competitive against robots not more. One of the reasons labor in other countries is cheaper is because they don't have workers rights.

 

[Djau]

It's more about government putting in excessive regulation.

I have no issues with people working from home. But how exactly is the government going to regulate this, how and who is going to decide if the job is "viable" to be done from home?

Also bitching about automation and workers rights in the same breath is pretty stupid. Workers rights make you less competitive against robots not more. One of the reasons labor in other countries is cheaper is because they don't have workers rights.

If you don't have worker rights you could be forced to work in hazardous conditions on a seven day week with wages less than a living wage... Thats serfdom.

 

[RedVIper]

If you don't have worker rights you could be forced to work in hazardous conditions on a seven day week with wages less than a living wage... Thats serfdom.

I'm not against workers rights.

I am against this law though.

 

[SKM1]

If you don't have worker rights you could be forced to work in hazardous conditions on a seven day week with wages less than a living wage... Thats serfdom.

Your whole argumentation is based in the idea that potential workers rights are equivalent to established ones, hence the obvious need for the latter implies the need for the former. And moreover, negating the potential negates the established. This makes no sense at all.

 

[oagboghi2]

Living in the past leads to irrelevancy in the future. That's why China and India are going to rise higher than America in the future.

Yeah, China and India are definitely the future.

Have you been to either country?

 

[Amory]

I don't think it's a good idea, tbh.

It's much harder to manage and keep tabs on people who work from home on a regular basis. And while a lot of people work as diligently from home as they would in the office, a lot don't.

Companies should be free to define their own wfh rules. I think after all this BS ends, expanded wfh is going to happen anyway since we all just got an extended crash course in the technology and expectations associated with it.

 

[Moogle11]

I'll be honest I'm shit at working from home, getting much less done

I get a lot more done working from home, but others are totally the opposit.

That’s why I say the ideal is for more employers to be flexible to let workers decide how many days they want to work from home and how many in the office. That’s the way to maximize having happy and productive workers. Going to either extreme will limit productivity. Or require a lot more firing and hiring to reach maximum productivity by finding people that thrive under whatever rigid structure is in place.

 

[IntentionalPun]

The GUBMENT wants to give ME rights?

THAT AINT THE KIND OF FREEDOM I WANT!

 

[Moogle11]

I don't think it's a good idea, tbh.

It's much harder to manage and keep tabs on people who work from home on a regular basis. And while a lot of people work as diligently from home as they would in the office, a lot don't.

That‘s really a non-issue IMO. People either get their work done on time and at or above the expected quality or they eventually get fired same as they would working in office.

The problem is too many companies/managers are bean counters who want to make sure they’re getting their 40 hours of work. when at the end of the day, with most jobs that could be done from home they’re really just paying for deliverables.

For instance, it doesn't matter if a report due at the end of the week took 30 hours or 40 hours of actual woes long as it’s done on time and high quality. But some managers get their jimmies rustled if they find out someone only worked 30 hours that week to do their assigned work even if the outcome was excellent.

Newsflash, the in-office employees aren’t working 40 hours either. People are goofing online, on their phones, chatting with coworkers or just generally taking their time with their work as they know if they finish early they’ll just get more work thrown at them. People learn quickly in most offices that if they’re more talented and work faster that it doesn’t pay to get ahead. They just end up doing an unfair amount of work while the slackers spend more time networking and kissing ass get promoted first.

More things need to go salaried and just be evaluated on the quality and timeliness of work/deliverables and that makes monitoring home workers the same as in-office ones. For both things are either done on time and high quality, or you get fired after a few fuck ups. This of course only applies to certain types of jobs where performance can be evaluated in this manner and that can be done equally well from home.