shinobi602
Member
LOL. I was wondering how other outlets would spin that Dualshockers interview.The click-bait machines are rolling again.
Next time click-bait corrupted journos will call Yu Suzuki a pedophile...
And fear the 60fps fascists too.
The Shameful Media Coverage of Shenmue III
- Thread starter Danlord
- Start date
- Status
Acquiescence
Member
The click-bait machines are rolling again.
Next time click-bait corrupted journos will call Yu Suzuki a pedophile...
And fear the 60fps fascists too.
Eugh, that's just fucking embarrassing. You have to be pretty goddamn pathetic to take what was a respectable interview piece and distort it in such a manner.
What a prick.
The click-bait machines are rolling again.
Next time click-bait corrupted journos will call Yu Suzuki a pedophile...
And fear the 60fps fascists too.
Embarrassing.
Danlord
Member
Shinobi retweeted this from Dualshockers news editor
The interview in question with regards to any mention of Xbox;
That's all, yet part of the headline on Gamespot's article is;
"Shenmue 3 Creator Teases Xbox One Plans and Discusses Gameplay Ambitions"
Not very bad, just mis-representing the article. What does everyone else think?
-
The interview in question with regards to any mention of Xbox;
That's all, yet part of the headline on Gamespot's article is;
"Shenmue 3 Creator Teases Xbox One Plans and Discusses Gameplay Ambitions"
Not very bad, just mis-representing the article. What does everyone else think?
PepsimanVsJoe
Member
I'm not 100% on-board with Shenmue 3 (did back the kickstarter though, love the prequels) but these articles are nothing but horseshit.
It's pretty disgusting.
It's pretty disgusting.
another lack of research/reaching someone for comment
suzuki's comments link in with ones cedric biscay made before alluding to microsoft having been approached about shenmue 3 but not being interested in giving them any time.
yet again proving the fans are more informed than the media on shenmue 3.
shenmue is a soft target.
running bad clickbait articles against a niche title from an indie developer without an established PR department doesn't carry the same repercussions as running similar articles against a big publisher/platform holder.
PepsimanVsJoe
Member
Oh and by the way, I actually read the article that mcvonline "no 60 fps but sexy girlz" tweet links to.
If only I could pay real money to get that click and my 2 minutes of life back.
If only I could pay real money to get that click and my 2 minutes of life back.
IrishNinja
Member
i don't follow that one, how bad has it been on that end? i imagine the success brings a lot've attention, but still
in a word: Kuchera
that last piece was so bad, it wouldn't even be taken seriously as a forum post
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
I'd long theorised that western game journalism became cold, xenophobic, and at its absolute worst, racist towards eastern developed games after last generation. Its great/super-sad to now actually start being vindicated in such an extreme, distasteful idea.
Essentially, with the X360 era game journalists went from needing translators and flights to Japan to get the skinny on the biggest up and coming games to just popping down the freeway to people at western studios that would become drinking buddies/community manager position interviewers. Its also why the incredibly heavy Microsoft/Xbox leaning existed across the board until the PS4 really started taking down names. Relationships with asian developers slowly diminished and people put on those games for preview/review were usually the token resident weeaboo.
Most journos arent aware of it most of the time, but it colours their coverage of stuff from the far east in a way that results in more 'dehumanising' articles. Jason Schreiers "Is the artist on Dragon's Crown a 13-year old?" Kotaku article was a staunch example of this as well as other shit articles about Kamiya and so forth. No way to treat veteran legends that have shipped amazing games over the decades, but theyre no longer your only source of gaming news. They're off in that wacky land that "doesn't even really play console games now anyway." So whats slightly harsher ribbing gonna result in anyway? Famitsu gets all the juicy cuts anyway, fuck 'em eh, lads?
Yu Suzuki became this easy target because he doesnt have those western PR connections that Inafune and co do that smooth the landscape for him time and time again. Shenmue was already this easy target for sneering laughter, so now you have a rolling budget target and potential revival failure to FUD all day long about.
Essentially, with the X360 era game journalists went from needing translators and flights to Japan to get the skinny on the biggest up and coming games to just popping down the freeway to people at western studios that would become drinking buddies/community manager position interviewers. Its also why the incredibly heavy Microsoft/Xbox leaning existed across the board until the PS4 really started taking down names. Relationships with asian developers slowly diminished and people put on those games for preview/review were usually the token resident weeaboo.
Most journos arent aware of it most of the time, but it colours their coverage of stuff from the far east in a way that results in more 'dehumanising' articles. Jason Schreiers "Is the artist on Dragon's Crown a 13-year old?" Kotaku article was a staunch example of this as well as other shit articles about Kamiya and so forth. No way to treat veteran legends that have shipped amazing games over the decades, but theyre no longer your only source of gaming news. They're off in that wacky land that "doesn't even really play console games now anyway." So whats slightly harsher ribbing gonna result in anyway? Famitsu gets all the juicy cuts anyway, fuck 'em eh, lads?
Yu Suzuki became this easy target because he doesnt have those western PR connections that Inafune and co do that smooth the landscape for him time and time again. Shenmue was already this easy target for sneering laughter, so now you have a rolling budget target and potential revival failure to FUD all day long about.
11/10
The click-bait machines are rolling again.
Next time click-bait corrupted journos will call Yu Suzuki a pedophile...
And fear the 60fps fascists too.
Goddamn. They are not even trying to be subtle about it.
Fucking pathetic.
even from an outsider perspective, i've seen star citizen called a scam, pyramid scheme, etc. even after the big reveal of the single player component recently i saw posts that were still pretty... acidic about the whole thing.
that destructoid article about bad working conditions that got fairly soundly debunked also looked like a smoking gun that someone was looking for controversy instead of attempting any journalism. if i remember right, the credentials provided by the bogus sources were company ID cards, and the debunking evidence was the director/whatever of the star citizen developer saying that they don't issue ID cards. even with some basic fact checking that story would have been immediately unfit to run.
while i'm personally still sceptical about how they're going to handle the insane feature creep in the multiplayer mode, the single player is shaping up to look really cool, and i say that as someone not into space sims and without any affinity for wing commander.
crowd funding brings out the worst in people though.
Keihart
Member
Yeah because when a "journalist" site starts to only talk "opinions" about everything, you bettter have the same opinions of your audience.
There is a lot of games writting to do without doing only "opinions" about everything.
How about reviews from the point of analisis instead of the so tipical "it isn'tt fun" or "satisfiying", why focus on the score? instead of understanting the games, are review only shopping references?
How about researching news instead of going the sensationalist way about it
There is a lot of good game's journalism around, but more often then not things get very low in favor of clicks..
GhostTrick
Banned
The click-bait machines are rolling again.
Next time click-bait corrupted journos will call Yu Suzuki a pedophile...
And fear the 60fps fascists too.
Hahahaha. That's not even a freakin parody hahahahaha. Of all the things said in that interview:
About the battle system, about the rapport system, about the dynamic weather/time, graphics improvements...
We ended up with the 30FPS PS4 version and lot of lines about sexualisation ?
Seriously, they're not even trying to hide their concern trolling anymore. It's just a game on making the shittiest clickbait article.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
With the rise of western publishers and western console makers and the corresponding increase in opportunity for game bloggers to find jobs in the industry this was to be expected. calling most of them journalists? Nah...
Doctor_Thomas
Member
What's the difference between the comments section of a Youtube video and a gaming website's articles?
This isn't a joke, there is no difference.
This isn't a joke, there is no difference.
Very good theory and insight. I havent thought about that. I think you are mostly correct. A bias is very clearly obvious.
Scientist Supreme!
Banned
The sad part is that your serious. smh
GhostTrick
Banned
Look, I havent played any of shenmue games before but I'm willing to give the series a spin once shenmue 3 gets a locked on release date. But this negativity coverage of shenmue 3 is just fucking making me sick of it now. I gave some them of these articles a look and see what they had to say. But now there's too damn much of it.
I don't care if some of these guys aren't genuinely playing the clickbait game. I'm either going to ignore it or just put ad block on if there's an really asinine article that I want to check out and laugh at.
I don't care if some of these guys aren't genuinely playing the clickbait game. I'm either going to ignore it or just put ad block on if there's an really asinine article that I want to check out and laugh at.
it certainly seems like a few people/publications have already made up their mind on a game that's barely three months into production. i think it only lends further to the idea that the majority of games journalists and games media publications are not very far removed from your average message board poster.
it's going to be very hard to parse personal taste, legitimate shortcomings, and confirmation bias apart when the reviews do actually come in.
but whatever. the kickstarter is triple record breaking, people showed a lot of interest in the shenmue revival, and new players to the series are very much capable of getting into it judging from the LTTP threads and posts from people in the first two kickstarter threads.
Shenmue 3 isn't for the naysayers, it's for the fans and those interested in becoming fans, so ¯\_(ツ
_/¯GhostTrick
Banned
it certainly seems like a few people/publications have already made up their mind on a game that's barely three months into production. i think it only lends further to the idea that the majority of games journalists and games media publications are not very far removed from your average message board poster.
it's going to be very hard to parse personal taste, legitimate shortcomings, and confirmation bias apart when the reviews do actually come in.
but whatever. the kickstarter is triple record breaking, people showed a lot of interest in the shenmue revival, and new players to the series are very much capable of getting into it judging from the LTTP threads and posts from people in the first two kickstarter threads.
Shenmue 3 isn't for the naysayers, it's for the fans and those interested in becoming fans, so ¯\_(ツ
The problem is, that campaign is hurting the game. Bad press on something that needs good press to happens is hurting it. It's not like it was actively in developpement and its fate would depend on sales at release. Worse than that, we already know this won't be the last chapter.
That negative campaign don't only hurt Shenmue 3, but also the IP as a whole. It distract potential backers but also potential investors in the project.
ienjoyrawfish
Member
Good post.
The bias against Eastern developed games in the gaming press is a factor for sure, but there are other things to consider as well.
A lot of gaming media, particularly the bigger American sites (where most of these stories emanate), have always been bias against Sega (even when they were good), presumably because their writers grew up playing Nintendo consoles, which were far more popular stateside.
Yu Suzuki is at a particular disadvantage in this respect, not just because of his association with Sega, but also because he made his name in the arcades and arcade gaming is generally not recognised or understood by the gaming press in the same way as home console gaming is. The embarrassing reviews arcade shmups get from mainstream sites is a good example of this, but, more fundamentally, there is a pervasive perception that arcade games are cheap, shallow, artificially difficult etc. This perception has only worsened with the rise of the whole pretentious "games as art" wankery some 'critics' are trumpeting (as well as the decline of arcades themselves of course). As a result, someone like Yu Suzuki, who's body of work is mostly comprised of arcade games, isn't afforded anything like the same kind of sacred cow status as, say, Shigeru Miyamoto. In reality of course, he should be canonised as one of only a handful of legitimate gaming 'auteurs'- and the only one who's body of work genuinely rivals Miyamoto's in terms of diversity, industry influence and quality- but he isn't, so sneering click-bait articles are fair game.
Take all these institutional biases, add into the mix an extremely poorly organised Kickstarter campaign to fuel the fire, and Shenmue III's coverage is entirely expected. The only surprise is that people seem surprised by it. Well, that and the fact that there are others who are actually leaping to the defence of these god-awful media outlets.
true.
i think the fans will pull through like before though. especially when shenmue and shenmue II rereleases happen. the fans were by far the best ambassadors during the kickstarter campaign and i know they'll stoke the fires of hope again when release rolls around. shenmue II, imo, is the biggest factor in getting more people on board with shenmue as a series. while some prefer the first game, II is a lot broader and palatable to general audiences. playing that game from start to finish can immediately make people excited for a third, and i think that wave of interest will ensure yu suzuki gets the support to close the series out with a final game after that.
secretly, i hope shenmue 3 makes a big splash at e3 2016 but who knows at this stage if it'll be in a state to impress by then. i want a bombastic trailer with that amazing, sweeping score. great imagery of rural china, fluid and realistic animation on martial artists, and demonstration of the variety of gameplay, and hints at larger story beats. something that screams "this is shenmue". shenmue is really unique in that respect, so it can really make an impact at a press conference if given the time.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
It is not just about editorials, great journalism can be done with facts/research based editorials, it is about professional game blogging as preorder hype machine and entry point for the industry you want to work in that is the problem...
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Keihart
Member
You don't get anything for your money, because you "DONATE" on kickstarter, you are a backer, whatever you get are only the rewards and some promise of a game. That's the problem and the advantage of kickstarter, goodwill money.
there's also an onus on the backer to go to the source in order to stay informed fully on a kickstarter game's development, as we've already seen quite clearly that the games press will either not report on certain areas, or falsely report on others.
diffusionx seems to not understand that, seeing how they were confused as to why the paypal campaign was happening when it was probably the most hotly requested item in the shenmue 3 kickstarter comments section outside a ps4 physical copy.
The western game media that just lauded an obviously unfinished and tediously bloated MGSV with all kinds of 10/10 awards? They're racist against Eastern developed games?
Clickbait garbage happens to everyone. Shenmue isn't anything unique or special.......anger and controversy sells, and blogs have no use for long-form interviews when it's easier to take a single quote and distort it into something objectionable.
LelouchViBritannia
Member
These journalist are an embarrasment and a poison to gaming. They need to fuk off asap.
Scientist Supreme!
Banned
Yep. I agree with Jeff gerstmann, Sega fans are the worst.
Alex_Mexico
Member
Did the original interview actually talked about "sexualizing" women in Shenmue 3 at all?
MaddenNFL64
Member
I fucking hate clickbait titles, and the shit that's been pulled on Shenmue 3 has been atrocious.
Most of these journalists really are at the level of message board trolls.
Most of these journalists really are at the level of message board trolls.
breakYODAy
Member
No. It's taken out of context. He talks about working with Shenhua's original designer to improve her character model. He says she's looking much "cuter" as a way of conveying how much better her model looks in the game. He clearly did not mean to say he's pulling a Kojima and making them more erotic looking.
I can see why shenmue fans are complaining, and yes, shenmue is special in this case when the game is depending its development through crowdfunding. This goes to star citizen too.
You can write horrible unfounded fud about games from big publishers and it will still get released, their PR can defend themselves, THEIR LAWYERS can sue the shit out of everyone. All of these is difficult for crowdfunded games devs because they surprise dont have enough resources hence crowdfunded.
You can write horrible unfounded fud about games from big publishers and it will still get released, their PR can defend themselves, THEIR LAWYERS can sue the shit out of everyone. All of these is difficult for crowdfunded games devs because they surprise dont have enough resources hence crowdfunded.
way to totally ignore what's happening and just parrot an opinion
right at the top of this page is a prime example of the impeccably poor reporting on shenmue 3. it's not hard to find. but sure, rail on about "sega fans".
Shadoken
Member
I also agree with "Random journo". "Company I don't care about" fans are the worst.
Its pretty dumb to label fans of a such a huge publisher , especially when their titles vary from Total War to Hatsune Miku to freaking Sonic dash on mobile.
I never got the hate for "Playstation" fans either , they have such a wide variety of titles. It just seemed so stupid to lump them all together.
it's a very cheap out to dismiss the body of evidence put together in the OP and beyond.
not to mention the "sega fans" jeff gerstmann was talking about were from almost two decades ago and completely unrelated to anything happening with shenmue 3.
Acerac
Banned
Their job is to give controversial opinions to drive hits.
Message board trolls are the best suited for this job.
Shadoken
Member
As for the racism bit , that MCV article did seem very racist to me.
He picks titles like DOA..etc to show how Japan is backwards wrt representation of women and how the West is better. conveniently ignoring Japanese titles that have very strong female characters that aren't objectified.
And also how the biggest mobile game right now in the US is plastering Kate Upton literally everywhere in a "non-sexualized" manner /s.
Am not saying east or west devs are better , but lets not pretend stuff like this is exclusive only to Eastern developed games. Also writing that article about women in video games for just mentioning Shenhua as "cute" is retarded on so many levels.
He picks titles like DOA..etc to show how Japan is backwards wrt representation of women and how the West is better. conveniently ignoring Japanese titles that have very strong female characters that aren't objectified.
And also how the biggest mobile game right now in the US is plastering Kate Upton literally everywhere in a "non-sexualized" manner /s.
Am not saying east or west devs are better , but lets not pretend stuff like this is exclusive only to Eastern developed games. Also writing that article about women in video games for just mentioning Shenhua as "cute" is retarded on so many levels.
IrishNinja
Member
agreed with this part 100%
doesn't hurt that inaf gets quoted half the time about how shitty eastern devs are, too
fucking hell
i mean you can argue that anyone buying into that likely wasn't going to support the effort anyway, but even if there was a retraction (i'd honestly be surprised) the damage is kinda already done in public mindshare
speaking of vets, Jeff's been at it forever but his gaming taste is kinda poop and bringing him up in a shenmue thread really kinda tells me all i need to know
decisively rationale response to a quote that didn't warrant the effort
If you look at his posts in this thread it's just a constant stream of trolling posts, so I wouldn't bother responding to him.
On another note, Star Citizen is technically past their original "estimated" release date as far as I know, so I think that partly prompted the shit articles.
In Shenmue's case, it's barely been 3 months since the campaign ended and the Paypal funding is still ongoing and it's already getting all this shit directed at it. I can't even imagine what it'll be like when we get to December 2017.
Agreed. Also they've since moved on to Mariah Carey, another buxom lady. Let's not forget one of the west's biggest games, Halo basically made Cortana more and more naked with every iteration. The west is so good at not objectifying woman.
Of all the Japanese games to pick on for objectifying women... Really Shenmue?!?!
god forbid shenmue 3 gets delayed (though i personally do believe it will be into early 2018).
SolidSnakex
Member
He was asked how things are going with the character models since the original prototypes and said that they're going well and that they've since hired Shenhua's character modeler and she's now looking cuter. He was also asked if he could give hints about some of the new cast. He went on to describe some and mentioned that one was a woman that's "extremely beautiful and sexy, but also cruel". That's all he said. Like I mentioned above, I don't see how either are in any way controversial.
The MCV article was written by Ben Parfitt who most probably know from his...interesting DMC article
http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/capcom-almost-halves-dmc-sales-expectations/0110372
Yeah I think it'll be pushed back some as well. Two and a half year development cycle is really optimistic and I don't think I would even want them to try to rush it in that short amount of time.
But of course I fully expect every egomaniacal "journalist" who is participating in the bashing right now to have their self-fellating articles essentially saying nothing more than "I TOLD YOU SO!" ready to publish the minute it hits January 1, 2018.
DannyDanger
Member
The click-bait machines are rolling again.
Next time click-bait corrupted journos will call Yu Suzuki a pedophile...
And fear the 60fps fascists too.
Wat in the world? How immature do you have to be to think up a headline like that
IrishNinja
Member
for real.
even dumber MCV went with that angle considering yu talks about "platonic love" in the same dualshockers interview the framerate and girl talk came up in.
- Status