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[Nintendo Switch]

The people that can watch that speech and then somehow claim these high schoolers are being disingenuous are either just as dumb and gullible to Conspiracy theories as the holocoust deniers or they are the ones being disingenuous. I’m glad people are seeing those Teh_Donald members that are incapable of debating the points for what they are.

Now to pivot and address the people who are actually debating in good faith rather than attacking the students delivering the message:

Gun control works. That’s a fact that’s been proven time and again in New York City, Australia, Japan and the UK. All of these places have seen massive decline in mass shootings immediately after passing gun control measures.

If you don’t believe that laws can help, then why the hell do we even pass laws?

If laws have no impact then Lets make machine guns and grenade launchers legal again. Lets make it legal for 3 year olds to buy guns. Lets make it even easier for people with mental illness or a history of violence to buy guns. If you really believe laws have no impact then why do we bother to pass any laws?

Don’t you find it odd that all these shooters use legal guns? None of them are shooting up schools with machine guns, rpgs or grenade launchers. Either that’s one hell of a coincidence or regulations and laws do work.

Any rifle round is more deadly than a handgun. AR15 uses what is called a "varmint round". Big game round wounds will be far more scarier.
Why 100 yards? Most recent shooters were shooting at people essentially point blank.
Assault rifle ban is there just to pave way for further bans

http://www.police.vic.gov.au/retrievemedia.asp?media_id=113523

Military looking guns like this one are banned in some states and not others. So if I lived in Brisbane and wanted to move to Sydney I would have to sell it or get rid of it some other way.

This kid was shooting up targets from all the way from one end of the hall way to the other end, to the point that four well trained police officers “good guys with a gun” and in fact most police officers would be afraid to even try to engage him until he uses up the ammo in his clip and has to reload.

The vegas shooter shot 300 people from over a 1000 yards away using rifles, extended ammo clips and bump stocks that he bought legally. These are the weapons of cowards.

With a 8 shooter pistol, both would have had to be much closer to their targets and would have had to reload much more frequently providing ample opportunity for a large crowd of people that are being shot at to gang up and overpower the shooter.

And it’s a medical fact that people shot with a pistol are much more likely to survive than people shot up with these rifles.

This guy has a hell of a lot more experience with firearms that anyone in this thread and he does a great job of explaining exactly what laws we need to pass and how they would help reduce mass shootings: https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/02/...pons-ban.html?referer=https://www.google.com/

 

[Corrik]

Hear we are still labeling. At some point liberals need to learn how to debate. Ad hominem and trying to debase character of a person instead of arguments is not debating. We are labeling a person alt right here (neo-nazi, white supremacists) because they think some white kids are misrepresenting something or are being politically used? That is not debating. That is mud slinging.

 

[Nintendo Switch]

“Ad hominem and trying to debase character of a person instead of arguments is not debating.”

This is exactly what some posters here are doing to high school victims that were just shot at. Those posters who are willing to argue the points that were made in that speech, rather than resort to attacking the girl that made the speech, are the only people worth being debated.

 

[TheAtomicPile]

I see my post in this thread was deleted, so I'll post it again.

Conservatives are idiots who use conspiracy theories to distract from the fact that reality does not line up with their idiotic beliefs.

School shooting happens and makes our stupid anti gun control beliefs look bad? Just deny it! Better yet, say the victims are actors!

Intelligent people see through you.

You gentleman lack bravery and are being triggered by teenaged shooting victims.

 

[Nintendo Switch]

From personal experience, not all conservatives are like this. I’ve ran into plenty that actually can be reasoned with and are interested in arguing the points rather than attacking the people who make the points. Even Rubio once confronted with the facts came around and admitted that high capacity magazines need to be banned. The GOP Congressman, Veteran and NRA member Brian Mast is another proof that some conservatives are open minded to have this discussion.

Those reasonable conservatives that are open to actually discussing the points and are thus capable of change are precisely the ones that we need to address and try to win over to gun control side. They are the ones that can help us pass effective reforms.

But there are plenty of trolls here who are incapable of debating the points made by this High school student and are instead resorting to attacking the Student so I understand why you feel this way.

The internet has a habit of making the loudest craziest voices the most prominent. But I think it’s very inaccurate to think that all or even most conservatives are like this.

 

[Corrik]

“Ad hominem and trying to debase character of a person instead of arguments is not debating.”

This is exactly what some posters here are doing to high school victims that were just shot at. Those posters who are willing to argue the points that were made in that speech, rather than resort to attacking the girl that made the speech, are the only people worth being debated.

No. There is a clear difference. Saying the speaker sounds not authentic is not tantamount to labeling someone to debase them.

You would have to go along the lines of "why would anyone listen to that girl she is a slut (supports planned Parenthood)" or "who cares what that guy says he is an admitted baby killer (pro abortion)"

Those are labeling to debase character just like has been done here. Calling someone alt right is the same as calling someone racist or a bigot. There is no place for it here. It doesn't apply at all.

 

[Nintendo Switch]

Calling someone as not seeming authentic is an absolutely idiotic and meaningless argument. I can call you inauthentic, what would that even mean or prove. Just like calling someone racist or alt right rather than trying to debate them, calling someone inauthentic is not an arguement, it’s an attack, a crutch used by people that can’t debate the merits of the argument.

There is no arguing to be had with people that don’t bother arguing the points made and instead choose to attack the person making the points.

It’s fine to disagree with the speech, but if you do, make some damn points challenging it. Attacking the speaker instead of challenging their message just shows the world that you have absolutely nothing of value to contribute to the discussion.

 

[Kotzen Ducha]

Calling someone as not seeming authentic is an absolutely idiotic and meaningless argument. I can call you inauthentic, what would that even mean or prove. Just like calling someone racist or alt right rather than trying to debate them, calling someone inauthentic is not an arguement, it’s an attack, a crutch used by people that can’t debate the merits of the argument.

There is no arguing to be had with people that don’t bother arguing the points made and instead choose to attack the person making the points.

It’s fine to disagree with the speech, but if you do, make some damn points challenging it. Attacking the speaker instead of challenging their message just shows the world that you have absolutely nothing of value to contribute to the discussion.

I largely agree with the content, though.
I'm worried that that this something carefully orchestrated by the DNC and the media who have a history of collusion if the DNC e-mail leak is to be believed.

Again, authenticity matters and we only have our entire human social experiences to use to judge it.
We pick out industry shills in gaming all the time and find the tactic of using them shitty. Remember when Sony was paying people to join message boards and promote PlayStation? Nobody liked that and it damaged the brand, at least among us enthusiasts.

 

[Nintendo Switch]

No, the merits of the argument are what matter. It doesn’t matter if the argument is from the DNC or from the NRA. What matters is the merit of the points being made.

 

[Corrik]

I largely agree with the content, though.
I'm worried that that this something carefully orchestrated by the DNC and the media who have a history of collusion if the DNC e-mail leak is to be believed.

Again, authenticity matters and we only have our entire human social experiences to use to judge it.
We pick out industry shills in gaming all the time and find the tactic of using them shitty. Remember when Sony was paying people to join message boards and promote PlayStation? Nobody liked that and it damaged the brand, at least among us enthusiasts.

Why do you keep saying DNC? Of all people, why would you assume the DNC would be behind it?

 

[JimmyMarrow]

Deep State is Deep.

 

[Soleil rouge]

Regarding the attention seeking from some of the students: Their compassion does seem a bit contrived and artificial. Did the Columbine students garner this much fame? All I remember from that was the emotional reaction from the senior class during graduation, which felt a lot more genuine than a few students fishing for massive amounts of Twitter likes and retweets. It seems narcissistic in a way and rubs me the wrong way.

 

[Corrik]

Regarding the attention seeking from some of the students: Their compassion does seem a bit contrived and artificial. Did the Columbine students garner this much fame? All I remember from that was the emotional reaction from the senior class during graduation, which felt a lot more genuine than a few students fishing for massive amounts of Twitter likes and retweets. It seems narcissistic in a way and rubs me the wrong way.

On one hand, I agree. I feel maybe some of the students are opportunistically trying to use the tragedy to benefit themselves.

On the other hand, it is a different age than when we were younger. Nowadays that Twitter and shit is like normal everyday crap to them.

When you see cases like where the girl talked her boyfriend into committing suicide so she could use his suicide for attention seeking and sympathy from others it makes you wonder at times.

However, I think the students here are moreso just hurt and trying to use their moment of fame to do something they think will make things safer.

 

[Nintendo Switch]

Regarding the attention seeking from some of the students: Their compassion does seem a bit contrived and artificial. Did the Columbine students garner this much fame? All I remember from that was the emotional reaction from the senior class during graduation, which felt a lot more genuine than a few students fishing for massive amounts of Twitter likes and retweets. It seems narcissistic in a way and rubs me the wrong way.

Yet another example of a poster that is utterly incapable of challenging the points made and instead resorting to attacking the high school students making them.

Here is a hint, if your side is so vapid of actual points that you have to resort to attacking these kids rather than challenging the argument they are making, it just might be because you have no leg to stand on.

 

[Corrik]

Yet another example of a poster that is utterly incapable of challenging the points made and instead resorting to attacking the high school students making them.

Here is a hint, if your side is so vapid of actual points that you have to resort to attacking these kids rather than challenging the argument they are making, it just might be because you have no leg to stand on.

He isn't debating the argument. His literal first words say "Regarding the attention seeking..."

 

[Nintendo Switch]

Exactly my point. If he wants to have an actual debate about the content of the speech, I would be happy to engage him.

 

[Soleil rouge]

Exactly my point. If he wants to have an actual debate about the content of the speech, I would be happy to engage him.

First of all, why would I engage in anything with you when you're just spazzing out and name-calling?

I'm not debating the content of the speech because I'm not interested in debating it. Period.

 

[Corrik]

Exactly my point. If he wants to have an actual debate about the content of the speech, I would be happy to engage him.

Why are you acting like this...

 

[Durask]

This is a good read - of course this is Mashable so they are very partisan but they make some obvious points.

https://mashable.com/2018/02/23/parkland-hunger-games-dystopia/#WRsc1A7dMOqb

 

[Nintendo Switch]

Why are you acting like this...

Because challenging those who would attack high school mass shootings victims is worthwhile. Hell I will even go as far as to say that I enjoy pointing out people who are so incapable of debating the points that they instead have to resort to attacking high school students.

It’s fun to see people whose beliefs are so easily shattered by the points made by these kids that they have to resort to attacking the kids instead of the points they are making.

 

[Corrik]

Because I enjoy pointing out people who are incapable of debating the points and instead have to resort to attacking high school students.

It’s fun to see people whose beliefs are so easily shattered by the points made by these kids that they have to resort to attacking the kids instead of the points they are making.

I don't think you are accomplishing your goal at all.

That said, if "attacking kids" is checking your sources and looking for bias or motives behind stances, maybe you shouldn't participate in debates.

The dude questioned bias. He didn't "attack kids". Attacking kids would be insulting them or saying shit like maybe they should go back to eating Tide pods because they don't know what they are talking about. Those are attacks.

He questioned if there was motive behind what they are saying. Most of us are having a reasonable discussion regarding it and mostly stating we think they are genuine.

You are just sitting here going off the handle trying to label people and calling people crybabies or whatever the hell else you have posted at this point. It is like you are trying to bait out a fight or something.

 

[Nintendo Switch]

Their motive is not getting shot at. They are angry at the NRA and Trump administration in part because they lobbied against and eventually repealed in 2017, the rules that make it harder for people who are mentally ill to get guns.

If you can’t challenge the points raised in the speech and have to resort to questioning the motive of the speaker, then your argument has no merit. Period.

This is a good read - of course this is Mashable so they are very partisan but they make some obvious points.

https://mashable.com/2018/02/23/parkland-hunger-games-dystopia/#WRsc1A7dMOqb

Solid article. I don’t know if the author is correct but I enjoyed reading it regardless.

 

[Corrik]

Their motive is not getting shot at. They are angry at the NRA and Trump administration in part because they lobbied against and eventually repealed in 2017, the rules that make it harder for people who are mentally ill to get guns.

If you can’t challenge the points raised in the speech and have to resort to questioning the motive of the speaker, then your argument has no merit. Period.



Solid article. I don’t know if the author is correct but I enjoyed reading it regardless.

Just a tidbit, that wasn't a solely NRA lobbied thing. It also was a law that never had gone into effect yet before it was blocked and may have ultimately gotten ruled unconstitutional. Hell, even the ACLU fought against it, but you oddly only named the NRA and Trump and not them.

https://www.aclu.org/blog/disability-rights/gun-control-laws-should-be-fair

Edit: Also that rule in no way would have stopped this shooting at all.

I also should not that I do not own guns. I do not see value in owning them. I can understand why people do or wish to own them. If there was legislation limiting guns in ways, it does not affect me.

 

[Dr_LucienSanchez]

Wew, this new GAF is great. Posting pictures from The_Donald posts made by people using kekistant flags.

Seriously. This shit is fucking horrifying and I'm not sure how evilore can truthfully keep on posting these diatribes about how much better a community newgaf is nowadays compared to back in the day.

 

[grumpyGamer]

I am reading this thread, and watching people atack one another.
It does not matter what side you are on.
Liberal or conservative, what matters is that people died and the shotings are not stoping.
There needs to be a solution not necesarilly an extreme solution but there needs to be change.
And people need to.accept the change. Times are changing and evolving and we need to keep up

 

[MrHeisenbird]

I'm not debating the content of the speech because I'm not interested in debating it. Period.

This thread has given me a headache.

I don't see the point of any discussion if people don't at least want to talk about the speech itself.

 

[Corrik]

I am reading this thread, and watching people atack one another.
It does not matter what side you are on.
Liberal or conservative, what matters is that people died and the shotings are not stoping.
There needs to be a solution not necesarilly an extreme solution but there needs to be change.
And people need to.accept the change. Times are changing and evolving and we need to keep up

There is a way to stop school shootings but people are not going to like it... (Probably)

 

[Dr. Claus]

I can sort of see where the sceptics are coming from. It seems clear to me that this speech is loaded with professionally written rhetoric and cited statistics. So in some ways you can claim this is scripted from somewhere.

Exactly. They are kids. They are not talented writers or speakers, so I have no doubt that their speeches are "staged" in that they are reviewed and re-written by people with more talent/experience. However, I do believe what they say. They have gone through a traumatic experience and want this change.

I am a bit disappointed with the attacking statements some have made in this thread. Let's calm down and lay off the blaming and converse like adults.

 

[grumpyGamer]

There is a way to stop school shootings but people are not going to like it... (Probably)

I dont like many things too, but that does not mean the law is wrong.
Facts vs comfort

 

[Pomerlaw]

So if those kids are paid actors... Which I don't believe at all since my brain is working...

Is Trump and all the other GOP NRA bitches considered paid actors? Cause we know for sure that they get millions from them.

I hope those kids don't give up, they have every right to be pissed at the state of gun violence in your country.

 

[Rudelord]

So if those kids are paid actors... Which I don't believe at all since my brain is working...

Is Trump and all the other GOP NRA bitches considered paid actors? Cause we know for sure that they get millions from them.

I hope those kids don't give up, they have every right to be pissed at the state of gun violence in your country.

The NRAs power comes mostly from getting their voting base out there fired up and less from donations to politicians.
They are a literal drop in the ocean in terms of lobbying donations in the US.

 

[Corrik]

I dont like many things too, but that does not mean the law is wrong.
Facts vs comfort

The answer is fully online schooling with virtual classrooms. Parents will lose their shit over it, and Republicans and Democrats will probably unite against it. However, that is how you stop school shootings at this age.

However, parents rely on schooling as a babysitter basically for their work in many cases. It is harder to discipline or make mandatory attendence when they can just shut off their feed at any time.

It will have distractions in the household.

School events would still happen but due to the lesser nature of congregation you can have more security available for them.

Snow days gone. School lunches gone. Cafeteria and other school jobs such as nurses probably gone.

But, school shootings will be eliminated.

 

[Durask]

Exactly. They are kids. They are not talented writers or speakers

They are 17 year olds, they certainly can be talented writers or speakers.

 

[SatansReverence]

So if those kids are paid actors... Which I don't believe at all since my brain is working...

Is Trump and all the other GOP NRA bitches considered paid actors? Cause we know for sure that they get millions from them.

I hope those kids don't give up, they have every right to be pissed at the state of gun violence in your country.

I don't think anyone thinks they are actors and if anyone does, they'd be such a minority as to be completely inconsequential.

There is a case for them being cherry picked by the leftist media because their views align with them. Look into Colton Haab and not just what the left media says. This is the boy who used kevlar matts to shield 60 something kids.

And of all the kids who were at the school during the shooting, how many are being given the spotlight?

It's rather disingenuous to act as though everything is above board here.

 

[grumpyGamer]

The answer is fully online schooling with virtual classrooms. Parents will lose their shit over it, and Republicans and Democrats will probably unite against it. However, that is how you stop school shootings at this age.

However, parents rely on schooling as a babysitter basically for their work in many cases. It is harder to discipline or make mandatory attendence when they can just shut off their feed at any time.

It will have distractions in the household.

School events would still happen but due to the lesser nature of congregation you can have more security available for them.

Snow days gone. School lunches gone. Cafeteria and other school jobs such as nurses probably gone.

But, school shootings will be eliminated.

I will take your post as an exaggeration, because you want to prove a point, because if you are serious your drug is the best shit around XD

 

[Corrik]

I will take your post as an exaggeration, because you want to prove a point, because if you are serious your drug is the best shit around XD

I am dead serious. Told you that you wouldn't like it though lol

 

[SpartanN92]

Last week weren't teenagers eating tide pods? Now we are starting revolutions based off their interpretations of the bill of rights?

 

[grumpyGamer]

I am dead serious. Told you that you wouldn't like it though lol

WHAT ??? hahhahaha whould it not be easier to ban guns instead of closing schools?

 

[Nintendo Switch]

The NRAs power comes mostly from getting their voting base out there fired up and less from donations to politicians.
They are a literal drop in the ocean in terms of lobbying donations in the US.

No. There are only a few million nra members and those numbers are likely very inflated as suggested here... https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.me...ng-its-membership-stats-in-scathing-rant/amp/

Meanwhile, we have good evidence that the NRA has been laundering money from gun manufacturers and from Putin into the GOP. They laundered 33 million into the Trump campaign and about the amount to pacs to oppose Hillary.

So yes, their influence is driven by money.

 

[Corrik]

WHAT ??? hahhahaha whould it not be easier to ban guns instead of closing schools?

People are still going to get guns if they want to if they are banned. And good luck going in and getting guns out of everyone's homes that already had one. Banning guns does not eliminate school shootings. What I said does.

 

[Corrik]

Last week weren't teenagers eating tide pods? Now we are starting revolutions based off their interpretations of the bill of rights?

A teenagers viewpoint can be just as valid as an adults. No reason to lump them all in as unable to have valid opinions.

 

[mr2xxx]

Last week weren't teenagers eating tide pods? Now we are starting revolutions based off their interpretations of the bill of rights?

Trump vs. the Tide Pod Generation. My money is on the tide pods.

 

[rokkerkory]

Trump sending out emails with pic of victim asking for campaign donations:

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/25/politics/trump-campaign-email-parkland-photo/index.html

Seems pretty slimey to me to do this.

 

[TrainedRage]

No. There are only a few million nra members and those numbers are likely very inflated as suggested here... https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.me...ng-its-membership-stats-in-scathing-rant/amp/

Meanwhile, we have good evidence that the NRA has been laundering money from gun manufacturers and from Putin into the GOP. They laundered 33 million into the Trump campaign and about the amount to pacs to oppose Hillary.

So yes, their influence is driven by money.

Do you have receipts for those statements? would be interesting to see.

 

[N21]

Trump sending out emails with pic of victim asking for campaign donations:

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/25/politics/trump-campaign-email-parkland-photo/index.html

Seems pretty slimey to me to do this.

You're going to get a bunch of replies and some will be questionable depending on the replier's morals but for me, this isn't a good luck for Trump and he knows that.

 

[Rudelord]

No. There are only a few million nra members and those numbers are likely very inflated as suggested here... https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.me...ng-its-membership-stats-in-scathing-rant/amp/

Meanwhile, we have good evidence that the NRA has been laundering money from gun manufacturers and from Putin into the GOP. They laundered 33 million into the Trump campaign and about the amount to pacs to oppose Hillary.

So yes, their influence is driven by money.

Gonna need some receipts on a very bold claim like that.
Also, that link doesn't really prove jackshit about their membership status, it's accusations and assumptions. I'm not a member but I vote along similar lines for pro 2nd amendment politicians. I'm sure I'm not alone in that regard.

 

[David___]

Trump sending out emails with pic of victim asking for campaign donations:

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/25/politics/trump-campaign-email-parkland-photo/index.html

Seems pretty slimey to me to do this.

Scum continuing to be scum, shocking

 

[SatansReverence]

You're going to get a bunch of replies and some will be questionable depending on the replier's morals but for me, this isn't a good luck for Trump and he knows that.

Well, if you actually read the article, it'd make you laugh.

It's about an election campaign email that "asks for donations" by providing a link? Nothing stating let along showing explicit pleads for donations. CNN likely trying to cover up from their scripted question scandal still.

Also in the email it states trump pushing for better background checks and bans on bump stocks etc. But hey, they got that spicey headline didn't they?

 

[Nintendo Switch]

Gonna need some receipts on a very bold claim like that.
Also, that link doesn't really prove jackshit about their membership status, it's accusations and assumptions. I'm not a member but I vote along similar lines for pro 2nd amendment politicians. I'm sure I'm not alone in that regard.

https://www.snopes.com/2018/02/16/did-kremlin-give-money-to-nra/

The NRA represents the gun manufacturers, not the majority of gun owners. The majority of gun owners do not feel people on the terrorist watchlist, kids not even old enough to buy a pack of cigarettes, and the mentally ill should be able to buy AR15s. The majority support universal background checks and disagree with the ultra radical stances of the NRA.

 

[Nintendo Switch]

Last week weren't teenagers eating tide pods? Now we are starting revolutions based off their interpretations of the bill of rights?

I would certainly trust them over the heroine addicted high school dropouts that represent the GOP/Trump base.

No I Dont think all trump voters are heroine addicted high school dropouts. Was just illustrating how ridiculous it is to group an entire generation based on the actions of a handful of people.