The story trumps all

B

Bjern Fita

Member
I've got no idea about how to write this without falling into all the horrible GAF clichés I read all the time ('am I the only one?', words more than 5 letters long, posing some airy-fairy question at the end) but I guess now I see how tough it is to create a thread where you're not just giving away good/crappy (but all cheap) steam games....

like the best part of GAF, I've been consumed by the steam sale before; and it's happening again. So many good deals it's hard to pass up.

I've been meaning to buy Jericho for ages since it hit 5 euro, but providence stayed my hand until this latest cracking steam sale (at least we now have only 6 months to wait between the pillages). Jericho is now bought.

After playing it for the last few hours, and loving the fucking shit out of it, I recalled all the negative press and poor reception and shitey meta scores it got.

(now get in a MW2 frame of mind. Hopefully other popular, long-term shooter games that you play a lot can give you the same idea...)

Sure I couldn't sprint, reloads were slow, no hit markers, all the new things we are coming to expect; but I can't fucking wait to pump through this game and see how it pans out. (By all this I mean the mechanics were bad by today's standards).

I got frustrated when I couldn't sprint, yet I still had fun progressing.

I play all my games now on easy if I have the chance, because all I want is to get through it and experience the story. I'm not going to use the word immersed because as much as I love games, I can't believe you fools (excuse the generalisation) that actually 'get into the game world'. I never do, I just fucking love playing a good game. Books (for me) are the only thing that are so all-encompassing that I feel like I'm living it.

Couple of cinematics; a few shocking twists and we progress.

(here comes a good and a bad thing). You can turn some cheats on and not have it impact saves (and for those that care, achieves), but you have to pre-order/pay for them. Thankfully, Jericho gives you a good code (unlimited ammo) for free so I can pump through this game (that was an impulse buy) with no worries. Makes me more inclined to buy other impulsey priced (less than 10 euro/pounds/ bucks) games.

So I guess now I'm coming to the part where I'm hoping to capture the hearts and minds of GAF; and promote the sort of dialogue that those that consider games as a valid and artistic means of expression seek to propagate.

I buy the vast majority of my games with the intention of pumping through the mechanics as easily and stress-free as possible in order to enjoy the story. If I want some challenge or a long term game, I'll play WoW, TF2, MW2 or SC2 (add in game of your choice). All the others I look at as a one time experience. Should developers cater to this segment? Give us more codes we can use from the get-go?

how much of the small population that is gaf feels this way? what does this mean for developers? Jericho is a 3-4 year old game; but I felt it looked fucking great. Not next to crisis of course, but good enough to ease the 10 hours I'd have to play to see the end. It was priced correctly enough that I just bought it on a whim, but then again, the developers also approached and created it assuming they could sell it for 50 bucks/euros when it first released.

I guess this has come back around to a long-tail/late adopter sort of view (I bought a wii two years after release, and am yet to own a PS360). Do you see a two-tier pricing model (great MP titles full price; and short, cool, cheap single player experiences building upon existing tech/engines) as a path for the industry to move forward? Is there a a possibility that the consumer reporting about games won't just bust out a 'boring, retread- 5.0' should a publisher try this?

This has rambled a bit as I'm trying to convey what I mean, all while avoiding to supply the insane amount of qualifying statements internet posts need to survive. I guess it'll progress, be locked, or fade away. Lets see shall we?
 
edit: you know what, i love stories in games.

edit2: remind me not to read huge ass OPs while having a headache. :lol
 
I like to get into the story as much as I can also.

But I'm of the mind that when it comes to games, there isn't this black and white division between art, gameplay, story, and mechanic. I think they all are very interconnected, and directly influence each other.

Super Metroid knows what's up :D
 
familyman--article_image.jpg
 
Gravijah said:
I just read through the OP and I have no idea what the hell your point is.
Click to expand...
I saved time by only focusing on the bolded points.

I am not a big fan of the dumbing games down to interactive movies. I would rather have meaty game play with simplistic or absent story.
 
for the TL;DR crowd: Should there be more cheaper, shorter, SP games with good stories?

my answer: Hells yes.
 
I have a pretty vivid imagination, so for me story isn't that important. I mean, I can easily come up with a story for some online shooter.

Just take a look at red vs blue, pretty decent story.
 
nexen said:
for the TL;DR crowd: Should there be more cheaper, shorter, SP games with good stories?

my answer: Hells yes.
Click to expand...

I am going for this; but the question is can they do it on the cheap on older tech without being crucified in the press?

(and I guess that flows on to 'does the press matter?'. Tough on GAF which you have to assume is the most savvy gaming consumer.
 
I've found that as I've gotten older, I seem to have less and less patience for stories in games. Especially Japanese games, for some reason. Don't get me wrong, I still play far more Japanese games than Western games, but I seem to be more tolerant of the stories in Western games as opposed to their eastern counterparts.

I don't know, maybe it goes hand in hand with my declining interest in anime. The stories all seem so cliched and samey to me. Maybe that's why I'm gravitating more towards games like Monster Hunter and Demon's Souls. Very little in the way of story is forced upon you in those games. And really, the way Demon's Souls integrates what story it does have into the gameplay is damn near brilliant.

I suppose it comes down to the fact that I want to play my games, not sit through a half-assed story written by someone who got stuck writing for video games because they couldn't make it in the movie industry.
/horrible generalization
 
Bjern Fita said:
I buy the vast majority of my games with the intention of pumping through the mechanics as easily and stress-free as possible in order to enjoy the story. If I want some challenge or a long term game, I'll play WoW, TF2, MW2 or SC2 (add in game of your choice). All the others I look at as a one time experience. Should developers cater to this segment? Give us more codes we can use from the get-go?

how much of the small population that is gaf feels this way? what does this mean for developers? Jericho is a 3-4 year old game; but I felt it looked fucking great. Not next to crisis of course, but good enough to ease the 10 hours I'd have to play to see the end. It was priced correctly enough that I just bought it on a whim, but then again, the developers also approached and created it assuming they could sell it for 50 bucks/euros when it first released.

I guess this has come back around to a long-tail/late adopter sort of view (I bought a wii two years after release, and am yet to own a PS360). Do you see a two-tier pricing model (great MP titles full price; and short, cool, cheap single player experiences building upon existing tech/engines) as a path for the industry to move forward? Is there a a possibility that the consumer reporting about games won't just bust out a 'boring, retread- 5.0' should a publisher try this?
Click to expand...
so in other words you're the kind of person who likes buying products at a fair price for the value.

i think i missed the part where you triumphed the importance of story as the major contributor to a game's inherent value. all i read was a bunch of stuff about how you don't play SP games for the challenge, and you don't like it when a mediocre product charges a premium price. i'm not saying this is an illogical stance to take on the subject; your post is just rambling and incoherent.
 
I still dont understand how somebody can care so much about these b-level(at best) story scripts that we see in video games.

For a good story, find a book or a movie to get lost in. Going to video games for story seems to me a bit of a waste in terms of the best way to acheive your goal.
 
Bjern Fita said:
I am going for this; but the question is can they do it on the cheap on older tech without being crucified in the press?

(and I guess that flows on to 'does the press matter?'. Tough on GAF which you have to assume is the most savvy gaming consumer.
Click to expand...
Look into interactive novels then. I got Hotel Dusk for 10 bucks.
 
Bjern Fita said:
I am going for this; but the question is can they do it on the cheap on older tech without being crucified in the press?

(and I guess that flows on to 'does the press matter?'. Tough on GAF which you have to assume is the most savvy gaming consumer.
Click to expand...

Yes, because the press treats 'budget titles' and 'indie titles' differently than it does full-priced game releases.

Seanspeed said:
I still dont understand how somebody can care so much about these b-level(at best) story scripts that we see in video games.

For a good story, find a book or a movie to get lost in. Going to video games for story seems to me a bit of a waste in terms of the best way to acheive your goal.
Click to expand...

How about if you want to feel like you are a character in that story and have control over the outcome of the story? Some of us see vast untapped potential in games as a storytelling medium. Even if most of them do suck right now - the possibilites are absolutely mouth watering.
 
Seanspeed said:
I still dont understand how somebody can care so much about these b-level(at best) story scripts that we see in video games.

For a good story, find a book or a movie to get lost in. Going to video games for story seems to me a bit of a waste in terms of the best way to acheive your goal.
Click to expand...
I agree. 99% of all video game stories are horrendous and just get in the way of a good time.
 
Seanspeed said:
I still dont understand how somebody can care so much about these b-level(at best) story scripts that we see in video games.

For a good story, find a book or a movie to get lost in. Going to video games for story seems to me a bit of a waste in terms of the best way to acheive your goal.
Click to expand...


Generally I find the stories in video games to be more interesting then most movies that get released nowadays. Maybe it's because I feel more attached to a character when I've spent anywhere from 10-50 hours with them versus the average hour and a half movie.
 
If the op had used the word experience or adventure I would have agreed. Stories in most videogames suck. The characters are often generic, the plot is so shallow you can see the end after the first cut scene and the dialogue aims to be laughable, because otherwise it would just be embarrassing and pathetic. I would have to agree with oracrest, that it's a combination of things and the best way to describe that combination is to call it an experience or adventure. HL2 pulls this off beautifully.
 
most stories are so cliche and uninspired in games that i can apreciate if they just keep it at a minimum. Just give me objectives.

Hoewever, every once in a while there will be a game with a story that grabs me. and yeah, that will make it more immersive for me.

but i don't see how playing a game on easy will make the experience better.
I can understand that you don't want to do things/ levels many times, but whistling through a game for some half assed story seems kinda pointless.
 
Always-honest said:
so you're not that much of a gamer.. ain't no biggy.. relax
Click to expand...

well I guess you're correct in that I'd never identify myself as a gamer to anyone else (still think its embarrassing this day and age).

But, I've put nearly every appendage to the grindstone and circled the wind temple, levelled up for Sin, and done Yogg with no strats; but as a consumer (someone who directly gives money through new purchases or DD, which I believe publishers care more about) I'm freaking picky.

You don't have to buy every half-arsed game at 60 bucks to be a gamer. Can devs cater to my tastes? Are these tastes shared? Graphics are getting fucking great, should we expect every game to push the fidelity envelope and cost $60 or just expect a cool story on an old engine to breeze/grind through (depending on your tastes) at $20

(yes there's too many ; and it's getting too wanky..., I did my best)
 
Linkup said:
The characters are often generic, the plot is so shallow you can see the end after the first [...] scene and the dialogue aims to be laughable, because otherwise it would just be embarrassing and pathetic.
Click to expand...
yeah, this never happens with film, television, or books.


people who play games for an interesting (not necessarily well told) story but find the majority of them are terrible are probably playing the wrong games.
 
A moderately intriguing story can make it easier to struggle through an otehrwise terrible game.
However, the gameplay is far more important to me especially since most VG stories are kind of corny.
I am having the most fun with Monster Hunter Tri and Mario Galaxy 2 right now and neither has any story to speak of.

IMO, rewarding gameplay mechanics is the single most important thing.
The very nature of video games, as an interactive medium, undermines attempts to assert the primacy of story.
IOW, an excellent game is driven and influenced more by the player's actions than it is by a prefabricated sequence of events.

A story is told passively whereas a game is actively played so there is an inherent conflict. When lesser talents focus too much on story the game progression inevitably suffers.
Cutscene tunnel syndrome is the very thing that has turned me off certain RPG franchises which try to shove an overly melodramtic story down the player's throat with a weakenning effect on the interactive aspects of the video game.
 
Gameplay is paramount. All else should serve gameplay. If the story happens to be good, that's awesome, but a game needs to be a game first and above all. Read a book.
 
My favorite part of a game is the difficulty, honestly. If i feel like I'm not being challenged, I'm out. Might as well watch a movie if the game is playing itself. I'm not talking about cheap shit, like 1-hit deaths, or any other trial-and-error mechanics, either. I enjoy well paced games with robust mechanics, deep gameplay systems and decent AI. I like to at least imagine that getting better at any given game each time I play.

Though, I do recognize a lot of you ninja-dogs out there suck at videogames. So I dont think Casual and Easy-Automatic modes are going anywhere.
 
ace harding: private eye said:
Stories are dumb. I just want to play shit.
Click to expand...
w2dopz.jpg


I do want to take exception to the OP's opinion on immersion, or his inability to believe others can get lost in game worlds. It depends on the title, for sure, but give me a game like Oblivion or even a realistic driving game and hell yes I become immersed in it.
 
Seraphis Cain said:
I suppose it comes down to the fact that I want to play my games, not sit through a half-assed story written by someone who got stuck writing for video games because they couldn't make it in the movie industry.
/horrible generalization
Click to expand...

hate grabbing a snippet so I hope I'm not mangling what you meant to say...


If I want great mechanics; there's a few games that can easily satisfy me. And I reckon being satisfied means going back again and again and again (what I was aiming for in the MW2, SC2, WoW, ... original post).

It's the story, (or potential story) that will get me to shell out 10-20 bucks/euros/pounds for an untested license.

Is that viable?
 
Diffense said:
The very nature of video games, as an interactive medium, undermines attempts to assert the primacy of story.
Click to expand...

I see this as more of a limitation of current technology than a fundamental flaw in interactive mediums as storytelling devices.

Case in point: I've played through some amazing stories in pen & paper RPGs.
 
I have played Super Street Fighter IV over 150 hours since it came out. I have played Blazblue over 100 hours since it came out. I have beaten Bayonetta several times lasting at least 7 hours each time.

I don't mind good storytelling in my games, but it shouldn't be in place of good gameplay.

If I want a really good story, I'll go read a book, which lives and dies based on its story, as compared to a video game that is a sum of its gameplay, voice acting, graphics, music, and controls.
 
Finding it hard to articulate what I'm driving at but (and this is my narrow view) a good mechanic is a thing to be cherished and exploited (this is not a bad word) through new and cool/exciting stories.

As far as I know Mario galaxy 2 is incredibly creative (haven't played it); but can you honestly say it wouldn't sell like gang busters if they just added new levels and no new mechanics?
 
Best thing about videogames: there is a little something for everyone. Unless you are trying to experience every genre or spectrum of fps/battle systems/game mechanic, just play what you like or ask for suggestions from people that know your tastes.
 
So op, what you basically want is a budget game that is more of an interactive journey with little compelling gameplay mechanics, instead of a big-budget, challenging, game?

I see no problems with that. It'd basically be a whole new genre. Though I don't know how successful it would be. Most people who just want an interactive story aren't gonna fork up the big bucks to buy a console, and most people who already have consoles just want to play games. Though if you can suffer a hit in graphics, they may stand a chance on XBLA or PSN.
 
Ashkeloth said:
I have played Super Street Fighter IV over 150 hours since it came out. I have played Blazblue over 100 hours since it came out. I have beaten Bayonetta several times lasting at least 7 hours each time.

I don't mind good storytelling in my games, but it shouldn't be in place of good gameplay.

If I want a really good story, I'll go read a book, which lives and dies based on its story, as compared to a video game that is a sum of its gameplay, voice acting, graphics, music, and controls.
Click to expand...

man I hate cluttering a thread up with quotes but this man (assumption) gets a bit of what I'm saying.

But would you buy SSF-XX in 3 years above a bargain price? (I'm still hanging off on SF4 as it hasn't dropped low enough).

where is the equilibrium between what the devs put in and what they can realistically expect us to pay?
 
Bjern Fita said:
As far as I know Mario galaxy 2 is incredibly creative (haven't played it); but can you honestly say it wouldn't sell like gang busters if they just added new levels and no new mechanics?
Click to expand...

Mario 1 thru NSMB all basically have the same play mechanics. The difference: creative level design. The result: classic games that most people love.
 
Bjern Fita said:
I play all my games now on easy if I have the chance, because all I want is to get through it and experience the story.
Click to expand...

This is exactly what I do. I love using gamefly and blowing through new games just to play and experience the story. If I end up liking it a bunch I'll go back and play through on hard or go for trophies or something.
 
Bjern Fita said:
hate grabbing a snippet so I hope I'm not mangling what you meant to say...


If I want great mechanics; there's a few games that can easily satisfy me. And I reckon being satisfied means going back again and again and again (what I was aiming for in the MW2, SC2, WoW, ... original post).

It's the story, (or potential story) that will get me to shell out 10-20 bucks/euros/pounds for an untested license.

Is that viable?
Click to expand...

See, I just can't agree with you there. I would never, ever take story into consideration when buying a game. It's simply a non-issue for me. Which is part of why I don't play many RPG's anymore. If anything the lack of story in a game would entice me to purchase it. I mean, if a game has a really good story, that's great, it makes the game that much more enjoyable (like Red Dead Redemption or The World Ends With You), but story would never be a factor in my potential purchase of a game.

Also, with a few exceptions, it really feels to me like most video game stories are just reusable templates at this point. Good vs evil, someone turns on someone, the real enemy isn't who you thought it was, it was all a simulation, Rosebud was the sled, etc etc etc. Sure there's the occasional fantastic story that deviates from the norm, but those are few and far between.

I'm no stranger to this discussion though. One of my friends is heavily into stories in video games. He bought Resonance of Fate recently, and not long after he was talking about how he didn't care for it because there's hardly any story to it at all. And the moment he said that, I became interested in the game.
 
Bjern Fita said:
well I guess you're correct in that I'd never identify myself as a gamer to anyone else (still think its embarrassing this day and age).

But, I've put nearly every appendage to the grindstone and circled the wind temple, levelled up for Sin, and done Yogg with no strats; but as a consumer (someone who directly gives money through new purchases or DD, which I believe publishers care more about) I'm freaking picky.

You don't have to buy every half-arsed game at 60 bucks to be a gamer. Can devs cater to my tastes? Are these tastes shared? Graphics are getting fucking great, should we expect every game to push the fidelity envelope and cost $60 or just expect a cool story on an old engine to breeze/grind through (depending on your tastes) at $20

(yes there's too many ; and it's getting too wanky..., I did my best)
Click to expand...
i don't call myself a gamer either. but i like GAMEPLAY.. that's what comes first for me personally in a game.

buy whatever the fuck you want.

devs want to make money. yup. Is that all they care about? no. Most of them want to make good games. and lots of them do.

would i like more games running on old engines with great stories for less money?
Yes. sure. But i think this is a bit unrealistic to even discuss.
You allready say you buy great games when they are a bit older and cheaper. That means the game was great back then to (at full price).
 
Bjern Fita said:
So I guess now I'm coming to the part where I'm hoping to capture the hearts and minds of GAF; and promote the sort of dialogue that those that consider games as a valid and artistic means of expression seek to propagate.
Click to expand...

Somewhat tangental, but I've always found it peculiar that the "games are art!" crowd always focus on storytelling or atmosphere etc as pretty much the sole proof of "art" in games (and please god, let's not have another excrutating thread on that again this week from that comment, i'm not bothered either way).

I'd argue that something like say, Super Mario World is a lot more worthy of the accolade, as its mechanics come together as a whole as intricately and expertly as the most exquisitely crafted Swiss watch. It's a marvel of design and engineering, and is largely timeless as a result. And yet going by most people's criteria of what is gaming "art" it's nothing special as it barely even has a story.

That's kind of sad.
 
Game stories are not that great to me and often get in the way of what I want to do, which is play the game. I don't always skip the story because depending on the game I may need to read it to understand what to do next.

I can't think of one time that a games story as compelled me to finish the game. I tend to spend more time playing games that have no story at all
 
The older I get, the more I require a story to push me through a game. Which is one of the reasons I can't get into online gaming, as there usually aren't any sort of story to push me forward. So yeah, I'd like more story-based, SP games.
 
Seraphis Cain said:
See, I just can't agree with you there. I would never, ever take story into consideration when buying a game. It's simply a non-issue for me. Which is part of why I don't play many RPG's anymore. If anything the lack of story in a game would entice me to purchase it. I mean, if a game has a really good story, that's great, it makes the game that much more enjoyable (like Red Dead Redemption or The World Ends With You), but story would never be a factor in my potential purchase of a game.

Also, with a few exceptions, it really feels to me like most video game stories are just reusable templates at this point. Good vs evil, someone turns on someone, the real enemy isn't who you thought it was, it was all a simulation, Rosebud was the sled, etc etc etc. Sure there's the occasional fantastic story that deviates from the norm, but those are few and far between.

I'm no stranger to this discussion though. One of my friends is heavily into stories in video games. He bought Resonance of Fate recently, and not long after he was talking about how he didn't care for it because there's hardly any story to it at all. And the moment he said that, I became interested in the game.
Click to expand...

well this is cool as we are diametrically opposed (almost).

I don't play TF2 for the story, but I fucking love that game. I am on the edge about buying Ghostbusters just to hammer through it and I have to assume you wouldn't touch that (potentially, and likely) shit with a 10 foot pole.

For 4 euro i reckon I'll take the chance.

(Again not having a dig) but is this a disposable income issue? Less than 10 euro and I'm just about sold. I know this market exists (I am the market). But is it big enough? Can it draw more in?
 
Combichristoffersen said:
The older I get, the more I require a story to push me through a game. Which is one of the reasons I can't get into online gaming, as there usually aren't any sort of story to push me forward. So yeah, I'd like more story-based, SP games.
Click to expand...

See, I can't really understand this line of thinking. If you need a story to "push" you through a game, obviously the game is doing something wrong where it really matters, that being the gameplay, because you're not having fun.

If the gameplay is doing it's job and being entertaining, the story shouldn't have to push you through the game.
 
(and I guess this is where I should put a qualifier.... I love Stephen King stories)

Last few DT books took me a while to get on board so that should give you an idea what i consider to be *narrative', or 'story'.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Digimon Story: Time Stranger will run at 30fps on all consoles
News 
35
555
Mibu no ookami replied
Why they are not constantly remaking all the classics - all the time?
2
67
180
Hudo replied
GVMERS: The COMPLETE Story of MAFIA
7
216
noob smokes replied
[The Indirect] Spider-Man 3 PS5 Star Confirms What We All Suspected About the New Game's Story
2
99
9K
Chuck Berry replied
Borderlands 4 Story trailer
43
364
The Cockatrice replied
Top Bottom