Support NeoGAF

[Men_in_Boxes]

Good talk about game design. 3:39 is right on the money.

 

[DoubleClutch]

Disagree. Gaming is so diverse there is no rule of thumb. A game like The Secret of Monkey Island is fun and follows a different formula altogether from Dark Souls, which is also fun.

The only thing every game needs is passionate artistic direction as opposed to modern monetization. Halo 1-Reach was made by a bunch of dudes that loved games and who wanted to make fun games. That was it. No rules, no MBA theories, no diversity consultants, just passionate creativity. Look up on YouTube Martin O’Donnell’s explanation for how they came up with the “I Would Have Been Your Daddy” skull. It’s passionate details like that that made the whole game great.

Halo 4 and onwards were made by the exact opposite mindset and it killed one of the greatest franchises in gaming.

 

[nemiroff]

Disagree. Gaming is so diverse there is no rule of thumb. A game like The Secret of Monkey Island is fun and follows a different formula altogether from Dark Souls, which is also fun.

The only thing every game needs is passionate artistic direction as opposed to modern monetization. Halo 1-Reach was made by a bunch of dudes that loved games and who wanted to make fun games. That was it. No rules, no MBA theories, no diversity consultants, just passionate creativity. Look up on YouTube Martin O’Donnell’s explanation for how they came up with the “I Would Have Been Your Daddy” skull. It’s passionate details like that that made the whole game great.

Halo 4 and onwards were made by the exact opposite mindset and it killed one of the greatest franchises in gaming.

343i is in my top list of gaming's biggest mistakes. Talk about corporate bots..

BTW, I still have a grudge toward O'Donnell for locking the ability to adjust the music volume in Halo.

 

[cormack12]

It's a bit all over the place tbh. Of course some similar games in the same genre need to have some core shared mechanics, especially now with games getting much longer. Plus controls have been aligned since mega drive/snes days. Look how much a pain in the ass the Nintendo reverse button scheme is.

As for outcomes, I thought that was the point of BR anyway, emergent unpredictable outcomes.

I do agree about time gating things though. I am never a fan of having to earn abilities, especially when your best attacks come in the last quarter of teh game, even worse when it tries to lean into metroidvania and you can now backtrack for collectibles you passed in the first 3 hours.

 

[Hudo]

Disagree. Gaming is so diverse there is no rule of thumb. A game like The Secret of Monkey Island is fun and follows a different formula altogether from Dark Souls, which is also fun.

The only thing every game needs is passionate artistic direction as opposed to modern monetization. Halo 1-Reach was made by a bunch of dudes that loved games and who wanted to make fun games. That was it. No rules, no MBA theories, no diversity consultants, just passionate creativity. Look up on YouTube Martin O’Donnell’s explanation for how they came up with the “I Would Have Been Your Daddy” skull. It’s passionate details like that that made the whole game great.

Halo 4 and onwards were made by the exact opposite mindset and it killed one of the greatest franchises in gaming.

I get what you're saying and agree. But I would argue that the game designers at Bungie back then knew design basics and applied them while designing the game. There's a reason why the shooting gameplay loop (and feedback) feels so good in Bungie's games. The level and encounter designers also applied some design rules and knowledge to how they approached level and encounter design. And don't forget that the Halo games by Bungie went through Microsoft's QA department, which gave feedback to gameplay issues as well. So rules aren't bad; they are useful to have some basis to work off of and experiment with as long as they don't get overturned by MBAs, I'd say.

 

[Generic]

Enemies in Dark Souls have infinite respawn so losing your souls isn't s big deal.

 

[HRK69]

No Asmongold?

 

[Guilty_AI]

There are no fit all rules, different games require different ways of thinking.

 

[solecon64]

No Asmongold?

It's so fucked up, and creating these types of threads, by posting the original video, should be ban worthy. Like, I genuinely don't understand why OP didn't link to a reaction on this subject, how the fuck am I supposed to know what to think about the matter if I don't hear someone else tell me their opinion first.

 

[Clear]

Enemies in Dark Souls have infinite respawn so losing your souls isn't s big deal.

Souls' games are interesting in that the way they present is actually different to how they function.

For instance the lose Souls at point of death, but can be recollected mechanic seems extra punitive on its face, but essentially it mitigates the consequence of failure by giving the player second chances!

And obviously, that illusion of it being a punishing system psychologically elevates the "value" of being able to regain what you just lost. The game basically tricks the player into feeling achievement and satisfaction from taking back stuff that is already "earned".

 

[CZY]

Enemies in Dark Souls have infinite respawn so losing your souls isn't s big deal.

It is if you value your time.