IbizaPocholo
NeoGAFs Kent Brockman
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The Tomorrow Children Beta Announced
- Thread starter nbnt
- Start date
Ok thanks.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Not all the buildings! Just Town Hall for now.
There are some text pop-ups, missions, and a transceiver message from the Administrator that talk about it, but I'm sure those were just a few drops in a flood of things to learn this weekend lol
I had such a hard time getting the word out on my town about this. Ended up moving the town hall closer to the bus stop, disassembled flags and other stuff so I could place them by town hall and get people to notice the damn furnace, dumped my bag of ore outside the furnace so others would get the idea, and then when the next shipment of ore came in I dropped 9 flares to make a path from the bus stop to the town hall. We made it to 50 before we got stuck with islands that had no ore and then our bus got glitches for the last 45 mins so we never were able to upgrade it.
Great to hear! It felt a bit underwhelming seeing the same 5~6 islands under the whole beta.
Btw, the full game needs a pyramid island!
Part of the game when you get good at it is setting up that kind of communication - using the signs and things to guide your fellow comrades to do the right thing
serversurfer
Member
lol No worries. I was actually stuck so far inside it I thought perhaps you didn't notice me and had assumed I'd death-warped. That, or it was just a first-things-first situation. lol
I see where you're coming from, and it does feel a bit like cheating, but at the same time, there's really no way to prevent it; like I said, we're communicative creatures by nature, and we'll figure out some way to make it happen. There's gonna be no stopping people using party chat, and indeed, we'll be here at GAF and likely in a PSN Community as well, trading tips, discussing strategy, and making plans.
The primary issue there is it will give organized communities such as ours a huge leg up on the random towns. What'll perhaps be most interesting if any of those towns find extracurricular means of organizing and improving their situation.
WRT our own use of such tools, like I said, I imagine we'll make great use of the OT, and possibly of the Community as well. Party chats seem like they'd be best suited to small work crews, military types, etc. You can actually have 99 players in a text chat, so setting those up may be a nice way for foremen to pass basic messages back and forth. The mining foreman can alert the loading foreman of new finds that need to be picked up, etc.
I actually sort of enjoy the solitary nature of the gameplay; I find it very zen-like and relaxing. That said, for the community to truly thrive, it will need the ability to form consensus, and that'll require some form of high-level communication. That's really the central issue. Not simply chatting up your coworkers, but being able to make zoning laws, and accomplish Grand Projects, and basically give the town itself some direction.
Ironically, the towns had a fairly clear sense of direction the alpha because they were actually somewhat limited in scope and followed a defined pattern for development. Players asked not just for more sophisticated towns but also for more agency in how the town developed, and we certainly got that, but I think we may need to be able to work together just a teeny bit more. It'd even be alright if communication and coordination were "technologies" we needed to develop over the course of the game. But again, OTs and Communities may be the best place for that stuff anyway. /shrug
Wuzzat mean? It can level up, like the town hall?
Oh, guess not. lol
Yeah, Town Hall has a giant door in it with a metal icon on the door and a counter above it. You put metal in the hopper, and when the counter ticks down to 0, the town hall upgrades.
LEAVE MAH PUZZLES ALONE!!
Seriously though, y'all are way too hung up on the puzzles. I think the sliding block puzzles are a pretty good stand in, because much like real science, it's not particularly difficult; it just takes a little bit of understanding and a fair bit of time. More complex projects aren't really harder per se; they just take a little longer to solve, and you need to keep a few more things organized at once. It really is an excellent crafting mechanic — far better than "slot ingredients and click Okay" — so please leave it alone. <3
If you guys don't like the puzzles, then don't do the puzzles. If your town is running reasonably well, there's should be little or no need for you personally to do any crafting. If you get a quest that requires it, then bribe your way out of it and get on with your life. It really ain't that deep.
I think that's going too far, really. Griefing really should be part of the experience, because that's part of life. The central idea of socialism is basically everyone working together toward a common goal, but without free will and agency to go against the wishes and health of the collective, then we've really accomplished nothing beyond forcing a population to behave by eliminating their ability to do otherwise. Use of force can be effective, but it's never been particularly difficult or interesting in and of itself. It's more about convincing people of the wisdom and utility of working together. Anyone can just yoke them up and crack a whip.
I was thinking it'd be nice to see who placed items as well, so I could figure out who keeps placing turrets in the middle of the residential section, track them down, and give them what for. Then I was thinking it would be far more efficient if I could simply snub the turret itself, which would alert the builder to the turret's unpopularity and ultimate fate. (Relocated, recycled, etc.)
Honestly, the jetpack is probably one of the best uses of your Freeman Dollars. It's a super useful tool in general, and the EagleCorp version is pretty badass. Learn to not squander your fuel and they can last quite a while as well. I'd sorta consider it vital equipment, especially if you work out in the field.I know. I know. I kept spending my dollars on other stuff.
What do you mean by that? Three users? Doing what, exactly?
serversurfer
Member
Yeah, this too. It seems surprisingly common for Japanese games to block it, for some reason.
As for the jackrammer you can do it with just two people too - basically if you both have a jackrammer.
One guy will start using his and the block will be outlined by a strange sparkly effect. While he is still building that you can step onto that sparkly effect as if it was there already and begin building with your jackrammer. Then when he finishes he comes and stands on your sparkly effect while you are busy ramming away and starts building again.
Doing this you can quickly build a bridge or a set of steps together.
One guy will start using his and the block will be outlined by a strange sparkly effect. While he is still building that you can step onto that sparkly effect as if it was there already and begin building with your jackrammer. Then when he finishes he comes and stands on your sparkly effect while you are busy ramming away and starts building again.
Doing this you can quickly build a bridge or a set of steps together.
serversurfer
Member
Edit: ^^^ Oh, sweet.
Actually, thinking back, when the game was first announced, they touted building your town and electing a mayor. Based solely on that, I was expecting town customization similar to what we see now, but rather than simply voting for bonus-of-the-week, I thought we'd actually be selecting a fellow player to provide oversight and guidance to the town's development instead of a robot following a build script like we had in the alpha. Let a human decide where to put Labor and how many turrets should be built, and then give them some way to communicate those directives to the workers; awarding bonus rations for priority tasks like getting food stocks to X, zoning and construction permits, etc. If it's a player voted in by the other players, I'd say that's very much in the spirit of the game, at least.
Again, that seems like something that can maybe be added in later, and even requiring towns to "develop" that stuff seems pretty reasonable, so towns always start at least a bit unorganized.
Actually, thinking back, when the game was first announced, they touted building your town and electing a mayor. Based solely on that, I was expecting town customization similar to what we see now, but rather than simply voting for bonus-of-the-week, I thought we'd actually be selecting a fellow player to provide oversight and guidance to the town's development instead of a robot following a build script like we had in the alpha. Let a human decide where to put Labor and how many turrets should be built, and then give them some way to communicate those directives to the workers; awarding bonus rations for priority tasks like getting food stocks to X, zoning and construction permits, etc. If it's a player voted in by the other players, I'd say that's very much in the spirit of the game, at least.
Again, that seems like something that can maybe be added in later, and even requiring towns to "develop" that stuff seems pretty reasonable, so towns always start at least a bit unorganized.
Yeah, definitely want to take it that far if we can get the momentum after launch!
serversurfer
Member
/dance
Ya'll better get this game, GAF!
bitbydeath
Member
BUY THE TOMORROW CHILDREN. This is our only chance at finally getting Communism Simulator
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Sorry, for the Seer's Gate I meant a gate that YOU can climb, not that it levels up. Although...
Yep, the "worksites" the bus takes you to are islands.
Yep, the "worksites" the bus takes you to are islands.
Nothing has been announced but its been hinted at that its releasing very soon.
Nope. Currently no release date and no price.
If you read my post, I basically agree with you. This is why I said the bribe price should be brought down and maybe even a price to help partially solve it. I didn't say take the puzzle out, I think something that takes time and you have to work at should be there (I just find sliding puzzles in particular frustrating). You're already paying a materials cost and a Mandate cost to build it once it comes out. An $100 cost on top of that seems too steep, especially if you want to build something not completely necessary, like most items there.
Of course the frequency of freeman dollars or how you accumulate them could fix the issue as well. It really sucked to be stuck at $90 freeman dollars for almost an hour.
Thinking about it over the weekend, I'm ok with the lack of information the game gives you. It gave me back that mystery that games used to have. I'm sure many will disagree but taken into account some of it was caused by bugs and no doubt people rushing because of a 3 hour window that I'm also guilty of, I'm sure it will be fine. Will there be chaos at launch? Absolutely, be let something amazing grow from that chaos. But once everyone learns it will work like a machine and the griefers will be like maintenance. There's something about returning to town expecting your trees or anything to be missing and adds to the dynamic chaos and I think is is partly intended. Though griefers should remain visible long to be snuffed.
Really hoping for a surprise oh BTW it's available now announcement at gdc, couldn't enjoy anything I played yesterday. I even launched the beta hoping some how the servers were up...
Really hoping for a surprise oh BTW it's available now announcement at gdc, couldn't enjoy anything I played yesterday. I even launched the beta hoping some how the servers were up...
I very much agree.
And yeh I've never come away from a beta and felt like I need to play it again asap, really highlights how much of a unquie gaming experience Q-games have created with this gem.
GDC is forever away
Darth Smurf X
Member
I was able to play Friday only since they had such odd times set up. I began almost when it started and when the server booted me I was surprised that my time was already up. Which, I guess, would be a good sign. I can't really put this beta review into paragraph form, so enjoy my bullets.
PROS:
CONS:
Things I couldn't gauge with the Beta, or am unsure about:
Bugs:
Final Takeaway:
I will buy this.
PROS:
- Art. This game is pretty. And the art style is so unique, it just really REALLY works.
- Fun. I had a lot to do and just jumped from job to job.
- Community. Although you don't always see other players (this will be in the cons), you do get a sense that everyone is working together towards a common goal. I especially felt it when the monsters attack and suddenly you see 3 to 5 others around you with shotguns blasting away.
- The grind. I like leveling up and earning new stuff and getting shinier things. This game has all that.
- Monsters. I love that it's not zombies, but instead giant lizards and spiders and flying wasps and stuff. And once the big ones fall, you can mine them... and everyone would descend on them at once, so it was really cool to see it just harvested so quickly. Like one of those stop-motion-ants-devouring-a-piece-of-fruit videos.
CONS:
- My biggest complaint was not seeing the other players constantly. Sometimes, you'd just feel like you were the only person around until someone did something to make them appear. It works with the premise of the game, but I think it would be better to always see everyone. This is especially the case when the train drops off its load and you go to pick something up, but fail because someone else beat you to it. So you turn around to pick up something else, but also fail because someone else is there.
- Where will this game go? I feel like after you get to a certain point with your town/city that the novelty of working to build it up might wear off. Then the community will drop and then the game will breakbecause the one thing this game absolutely needs is a large community at all times. If you are standing in a town by yourself when a Godzilla attacks, the town will be toast. This might be unfounded, because I have no idea how many things we'll be able to build/upgrade in the final game and how often DLC stuff will be added.
- Community building. This is the OCD in me talking, but other players just built things wherever they felt like plopping it down. I like order, but since you have no control of what others do, I felt the perfectionist in me squirming. Also, griefers.
Things I couldn't gauge with the Beta, or am unsure about:
- Story. You get the intro cinematic and tutorial, and the main leader guy calls you on the phone a lot, but I don't know what the overall story will be... if there is one.
- Playing with friends. I have no idea how this will work. Can you join up with a friend and constantly see them, talk to them, work with them, etc...
- Mayor. I have no idea what this is. You get hints that players in a town can vote on a mayor, but I don't know what the significance of this will be in the final game. Did anyone have enough time to do a vote?
- Workbench. It's a unique mechanic and fun (basically, in order to build something, you have to solve a sliding puzzle). But waiting for someone to use the workbench if they have no idea what they are doing, or are taking too long to complete their item could grow tiresome. But maybe you can build more workbenches later. I just don't know if this mechanic is going to work or not in the final game.
Bugs:
- I only found one. The train got stuck at one point and wouldn't move. It loaded up all the materials, people boarded and it just sat there. And sat. And sat. Granted, the town was in jumping distance (I started sinking and jumped twice and was on solid ground) and then someone built a handy, red sidewalk, but the materials for the town weren't getting delivered. It eventually freed itself, but for awhile it was broken.
Final Takeaway:
I will buy this.
Crab Milk Mickey
Member
I also had the bus stuck at one point during the stress test, and I believe it happened because one of those stat-boosting monuments was placed in its direct path. I tried to disassemble it but wasn't allowed to; not sure if those statues are the exception to the rule, or if I lacked permission because I wasn't a full-fledged citizen for the village I arrived in.
Would've liked to have the game show an outline of the direction it'll travel in whenever someone wants to build something (when nearby) to avoid any confusion or repeated instances of the bus being locked in place, but I'm guessing this might be a fixed bug already for the launch build anyways.
Would've liked to have the game show an outline of the direction it'll travel in whenever someone wants to build something (when nearby) to avoid any confusion or repeated instances of the bus being locked in place, but I'm guessing this might be a fixed bug already for the launch build anyways.
I saw a board that showed the 3 people you can vote for, they give a up to 5 or 6 effects like increased toil to coupon ratio, energy consumption decreases ect.
I am not sure how to vote though.
I'm not 100% sure but I think the monuments are placed by the game itself.
Yeah, nearly all thr promotional material shows all the players without the dumb phasing/invisible players thing. I wish the game was like that or at least much less phasing.
serversurfer
Member
Notice that the other players are all waiting in line at the bus. So, I guess it's early because you don't line up for the bus anymore, but you do line up at the workbench, at Labor, at vendors, etc. Players are always visible to others when lined up somewhere; riding the bus; or operating machinery, like jetpacks, turrets, and tanks. "Standing in line" is where most of your contact with other players comes from. They should implement some sort of gossip system…
But you're missing my point, which is that you shouldn't be spending $100 Freeman Dollars to build unnecessary shit. You shouldn't be building unnecessary shit at all. You should just ignore the workbench, and let people like me decide when that stuff becomes necessary, and crank them out by the dozen for free when it does. If the Mayor tasks you personally with building a streetlight, then pay your $100 and be on your way. That shouldn't happen so often that it'll be a concern for you though.
If you're regularly using Freeman Dollars to assist you with the puzzles, then this clearly isn't the job for you. But that's okay, because there are others who are good at it and are happy to do it. I suck at aiming, so I generally let those who are better at it take care of it, and just worry about the things I am good at, like puzzling.
Another thing to consider is that there's actually quite a bit going on in this game, and it can be easy to overwhelm players with information. People were feeling overwhelmed in the beta, and I suspect we've barely scratched the surface here. That's why I liked the idea of embedded vidscreens; not only do players always know where to find the relevant instructions, it allows the player to decide when and if they're gonna learn that stuff. They may never care to do those things, or learn about how they work.
Also my biggest complaint, but you'll be happy to know a solution is in the works and should be polished near launch. Basically, each grab action will cause you to run around the area and scoop up as many as three items, placing them in to your knapsack. Presumably, the solution will also avoid race conditions.
Waiting in line is just part of the game. There was a perk in the alpha called Sharp Elbows that like you jump the line, but I didn't see it anywhere in the beta…
Prototype Viktor
Member
if the electing a player mayor happens i want the ability to select pre-written messages in the speaker up-dpad
and maybe the option to skim toil off people until they notice
Personally I hope it doesn't. Every clone should remain equal, surely that's the point of a clone?
People should be able to play the game as they wish, and if this has a detrimental effect on the town then its just another facet to the challenge of expansion.
Griefing should be delt with democratically and what form that takes is yet to be seen (for extreme griefing at least), I don't want to see some sort of hirachy between players though.
The fact other players disappear is there to help fuel the sense of equality and individuality. No one can be followed so no leader can exsist and there isn't pressure to do something just because everyone else is. It also helps by avoiding demoralisation as you could be put off doing something because you can see 20 others doing the same thing, when in fact if you can't see them theres a stronger sense that your actions are actually making a difference.
But I don't wanna be a cog in the machine! I wanna be a free thinker! I wanna be an individual! I wanna-
...OH
serversurfer
Member
How is infrastructure redundancy handled? Can we have functioning Labor ministries at both ends of town, providing both convenience and failover?
Oh, earlier, I was saying it'd be nice to be able to snub a poorly placed turret. Similarly, it'd be nice to be able to praise a well placed one. Players can actually look at that stuff themselves as sort of a report card, telling them that while their orchards are in fact quite lovely, everyone HATES the way they place turret batteries. Finding out what other players are good at will help people decide which player to vote in for Mayor and other Council positions.
So yeah, I was thinking about the human Mayor and how they'd get shit done. At first, I was thinking it might be cool if they could leverage the current questing system. If we need a dozen more turrets, the Mayor could issue an order to 12 random workers to build one. But then the Mayor's ability to get shit done would depend on 100% quest completion, which is a bit much to hope for. I was thinking that quests could be awarded based on player behavior, with puzzle quests going to the natural puzzlers, etc., but that's probably not a very reliable system of government either. Also, it sorta goes against the socialist philosophy, I think, where it's ultimately everyone's responsibility to ensure society flourishes, and when it does, everyone should enjoy the benefits more or less equally.
So yeah, I think it's better to offer rewards at the societal level, and let the citizens take it upon themselves to see the work gets done. "Everyone gets 100 Coupons when ____ is accomplished." The people who naturally do that sort of work should already be on the ball and ready to step up their game, but with the bonus rations riding on the outcome, most of the citizenry will naturally keep an eye on the progress, and come over to lend a hand if it looks like the specialists are a bit overwhelmed this week.
The balance concern is that the incentive rations basically become free income for the town. That's why I was thinking the Mayor should have a budget of some sort to work with. Instead of being able to effectively authorize fictitious work and create unlimited wealth in the process "Everyone gets a hundred Coupons when we collect our next fruit. Well done. Now " give them a specific budget to work with and let them decide how best to allocate it to ensure that new construction is completed on time while everyone still remains safe and fed. The budget itself could scale with the development of the town, but not too much, because since rewards are shared equally, citizens of the larger and more successful towns would become ridiculously wealthy. Unless their cost of living was a bit higher, whether through inflated prices or inflated standards
Another possibility would be that the budget comes from a modest toil tax, so no wealth is actually being created, but rather skimmed then pooled to create an incentive that allows for prioritizing different behaviors from week to week. It would also redistribute wealth to some extent, with less capable players getting a helping hand from their more efficient comrades. Some of that budget could even be diverted to fund programs like the bonus-of-the-week stuff the robot mayors currently offer. Come to think of it, that actually could provide a boost to the economy; "Pay X to boost mining efficiency by Y" may actually provide a budget surplus, depending on how much mining you do and the Toil it normally generates.
Oh, earlier, I was saying it'd be nice to be able to snub a poorly placed turret. Similarly, it'd be nice to be able to praise a well placed one. Players can actually look at that stuff themselves as sort of a report card, telling them that while their orchards are in fact quite lovely, everyone HATES the way they place turret batteries. Finding out what other players are good at will help people decide which player to vote in for Mayor and other Council positions.
lol Actually, I was just thinking the Mayor should have a Toil budget to award to the people.
So yeah, I was thinking about the human Mayor and how they'd get shit done. At first, I was thinking it might be cool if they could leverage the current questing system. If we need a dozen more turrets, the Mayor could issue an order to 12 random workers to build one. But then the Mayor's ability to get shit done would depend on 100% quest completion, which is a bit much to hope for. I was thinking that quests could be awarded based on player behavior, with puzzle quests going to the natural puzzlers, etc., but that's probably not a very reliable system of government either. Also, it sorta goes against the socialist philosophy, I think, where it's ultimately everyone's responsibility to ensure society flourishes, and when it does, everyone should enjoy the benefits more or less equally.
So yeah, I think it's better to offer rewards at the societal level, and let the citizens take it upon themselves to see the work gets done. "Everyone gets 100 Coupons when ____ is accomplished." The people who naturally do that sort of work should already be on the ball and ready to step up their game, but with the bonus rations riding on the outcome, most of the citizenry will naturally keep an eye on the progress, and come over to lend a hand if it looks like the specialists are a bit overwhelmed this week.
The balance concern is that the incentive rations basically become free income for the town. That's why I was thinking the Mayor should have a budget of some sort to work with. Instead of being able to effectively authorize fictitious work and create unlimited wealth in the process "Everyone gets a hundred Coupons when we collect our next fruit. Well done. Now " give them a specific budget to work with and let them decide how best to allocate it to ensure that new construction is completed on time while everyone still remains safe and fed. The budget itself could scale with the development of the town, but not too much, because since rewards are shared equally, citizens of the larger and more successful towns would become ridiculously wealthy. Unless their cost of living was a bit higher, whether through inflated prices or inflated standards
Another possibility would be that the budget comes from a modest toil tax, so no wealth is actually being created, but rather skimmed then pooled to create an incentive that allows for prioritizing different behaviors from week to week. It would also redistribute wealth to some extent, with less capable players getting a helping hand from their more efficient comrades. Some of that budget could even be diverted to fund programs like the bonus-of-the-week stuff the robot mayors currently offer. Come to think of it, that actually could provide a boost to the economy; "Pay X to boost mining efficiency by Y" may actually provide a budget surplus, depending on how much mining you do and the Toil it normally generates.
It's not really about elevating people to higher status. The Mayor isn't there to "rule over" anyone. Rather, the Mayor is a citizen, elected by the citizenry, to provide the society with a common sense of direction and point of consensus. To provide some high-level oversight to help ensure things are done more sensibly than randomly.
I don't think anyone is arguing otherwise. If you choose to live in a town that eschews all forms of government, go for it. But by the same token, if others prefer to have some sense of order in their lives, then they should be given the means to accomplish that.
For the most part, I completely agree with this. The sense of isolation does help to reinforce the notion that it's all on your shoulders, and I'm not really looking to change that in any way, because I think it works pretty well. But the Mayor isn't there to dictate to other players, nor are the workers merely buttons for the Mayor to press. Like I said, the Mayor is just there as a focusing point for the will of the people, helping them to achieve goals more complex than, "Do a good job and try not to fuck up too much." If your Mayor isn't doing a good job of that, vote for someone else, or move to a town run more to your liking.
Uhm... if someone doesn't like it, don't do it? That's not the most forward way of thinking out there now, is it? Specially when that involves half of the game mechanics side (the building part). That you can't see a single issue with it just because you like the puzzle itself is not the way to go, specially when a lot of people are saying they could at least work on things like making the bribe
Uhm.. now with this I won't agree at all. Griefing shouldn't be a part of the experience when you are paying for it and you really can't do much to catch the griefer. Go to sleep, nobody in the town, griefer comes and destroys it all, wake up... suck it up? That might be part of the experience and some people will live with it, but I think that could very easily make a lot of people not want to go back. It happened in the GAF Town and nobody was able to do much at all, and sure it was fun to rebuild the city, but after many times it can get frustrating. Tell me how anyone can yoke them up and crack a whip.
Personally these are my two main issues with the game. I will still buy it and play the hell out of it. The puzzle parts... I guess I will learn to do the more difficult ones (specially the ones with the numbers, the basic one is a cakewalk). But the griefing is definitely an issue that many people worry about.
Well to lift up the director/designer skirt a little - I'm considering more of a point allocation system for human mayors. Bear in mind this isn't set in stone because we might try it out and it might be rubbish.
For example like character creation in something like Fallout, you have 10 points to allocate to a no. of parameters that control the overall town. For example you could put all ten points into making vehicles really fuel efficient... or you could put ten points into increase the labor coupon reward rate at the ministry.
That kind of thing, and it becomes your policy, you only set it up once and everyone knows you are the mayor (some visual distinction)... if they didn't like your policies they won't vote you in the next time
For example like character creation in something like Fallout, you have 10 points to allocate to a no. of parameters that control the overall town. For example you could put all ten points into making vehicles really fuel efficient... or you could put ten points into increase the labor coupon reward rate at the ministry.
That kind of thing, and it becomes your policy, you only set it up once and everyone knows you are the mayor (some visual distinction)... if they didn't like your policies they won't vote you in the next time
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Thanks for putting this together!
serversurfer
Member
Forward thinking doesn't imply better thinking. If the thought is that it's a good idea to change an optional activity that people enjoy simply because some people find it distasteful, then I don't think that's very good thinking at all, no. Like I said, I find aiming to be tedious and annoying, so why don't we make it so you can just pay a small bribe to have all of the monsters in the area drop dead? Because that'd be pretty fucking retarded and not much of a game, right? Similarly, I'd rather not see my favorite activity reduced to hitting the Succeed button again and again. This game does an excellent job of providing something for everyone because it doesn't try to ensure that everything is for everyone. We can all play together quite peacefully just by virtue of everyone doing what they like best. That's actually sorta the point of the entire game. You're able to do any and every job, if you choose to, but you're not necessarily meant to, and that's not just okay, but kinda awesome.
By removing their ability to do anything but bust rocks and crank the generator.
"Some people aren't behaving as we'd hoped."
"Eliminate their ability to do otherwise."
Not a terribly creative solution, and indeed, not really a solution at all, because it doesn't actually address the root problem.
Yes, griefing is currently a major problem, because griefers can operate largely undetected, and can do considerable amounts of damage in a very short time. But they're aware of the problem, and they're working on solutions. Player freedom isn't the problem here; it's a simple balancing issue.
So, basically like the current system, but instead of voting for an "arbitrary" collection of presets, we're giving a human player full control of the sliders for the week? That'd be pretty cool.Well to lift up the director/designer skirt a little - I'm considering more of a point allocation system for human mayors. Bear in mind this isn't set in stone because we might try it out and it might be rubbish.
For example like character creation in something like Fallout, you have 10 points to allocate to a no. of parameters that control the overall town. For example you could put all ten points into making vehicles really fuel efficient... or you could put ten points into increase the labor coupon reward rate at the ministry.
That kind of thing, and it becomes your policy, you only set it up once and everyone knows you are the mayor (some visual distinction)... if they didn't like your policies they won't vote you in the next time
Sorry, I tend to get carried away.
Perhaps this is within the realm of possibility though… I sorta touched on this with disassembly, but maybe we should make it so players are visible throughout their activity rather than just as it's completed, and vulnerable to interrupt by sufficient number of snubs; maybe 2 or 3 unique snubs, or just a single snub from a player with a sufficiently higher Toil Score — an "experienced coworker" — or a legitimate resident. Similarly, it would offer more opportunity for praise.
Not only would that help us nip griefing in the bud, it would give opportunity to offer guidance to other players, praising good work and scolding poor work. You could pretty easily train someone to make more efficient resource cuts that way, for example, because not only can you speak up when they start to do it wrong, they can actually watch you demonstrate the proper technique rather than simply seeing a short film of the final moment. The ability to interrupt would also allow experienced players to stop well-meaning noobs before they cut down the entire orchard.
The obvious drawback is increased inter-player visibility, but perhaps the overall gains may be worth it? We may wanna increase visibility duration just a bit regardless, because if someone is acting like a dick, it's sometimes hard to even get their name much less get them snubbed before they vanish again.
Edit: "Set it once"? Like, at the beginning of the week, or of your term, or when you declare your candidacy, or what? I'd assumed the Mayor could actively tune things based on current needs, and we'd vote for someone who was good at that.
Yes we've already decided to lengthen the time considerably it takes to disassemble buildings, and of course you will be visible all during that time so you can be snubbed/trapped.
Even with the black market disassembler. This will pretty much solve the problem the neogaf town had at that one time, you'll have to be diligent secret police and catch the blighter.
That was a great take away from the beta test for us!
Even with the black market disassembler. This will pretty much solve the problem the neogaf town had at that one time, you'll have to be diligent secret police and catch the blighter.
That was a great take away from the beta test for us!
I guess I am missing the point, considering a lot of that doesn't really relate directly to what I'm saying (by saying not being completely necessary I was talking about basically almost everything you can build, not just "unecessary shit" like street lights). I suppose the real problem I have isn't the cost itself but more so the fact that you have a currency that appears out of thin air and you may or may not get it occasionally.
As for what you're saying here, I could be wrong, but I think you're assuming too much in terms of the intention with regards to tasks/people's purpose in this game, maybe even the opposite. People don't need to be micromanaged or alienated based on their skillset, because all the different actions in the game have a really easy learning curve for players. There are no people that should just stick to repairing, because anyone can quickly tap those button prompts and repair. You don't need to be the town "energy generator" because the energy machine mini-game takes very little skill to pull off. Enemies are absurdly slow and don’t one hit KO you (despite being death being incredibly forgiving), so that even people who aren’t great at shooters can effectively take out bees or help kill Godzilla guys. Anyone can mine by hitting a button, and so on. That's also why it's a very simple 3x3 sliding puzzle game for building, because anyone can understand it and solve it so you don’t need “builders”. I don’t think the game calls for or needs that level of optimization and micro-managing from players, and I think it’s specifically designed around it. Of course people will naturally be better or become better at certain things than others, but it won’t be such a significant gap between others as to be a detriment to their community/economy. Hence the whole "cog in the machine" aspect.
Are you actively trying to misunderstand me or what? I never said get rid of it, and nobody else said so either. I said having more options other than just ONE way to do the puzzles could be a good way to find balance. Again, not a massive deal, but it could help.
Comparing that to aiming at enemies is incredibly ignorant from your part, sorry. Also your italics on every few words is incredibly condescending. We are trying to give feedback and you just try to stomp on anyone that has an opinion that differs yours. Way to go.
How can I remove the ability for someone to stop destroying houses when I'm not there? If there are different rankings or something and new people can't do that, then that's nice, but if anyone can do it, I could see some griefers going in groups to different towns to mess with people. It might not be a big issue in the final game, but it's something to consider. Again, I'm not trying to go against the game, I will play it and I do get what this game is about, I'm just saying that it's a possibility and some people might not like it if it happens and the player base could suffer from that.
The solution that HiVision posted sounds good. If it takes too long, most griefers will probably get tired of waiting and just leave. That's a solution, you telling people to suck it up because that's how communism works doesn't help.
Edit: My main issue discussing this with you though, is how condescending you can sound. You shouldn't act like that when someone is trying to give feedback.
Slowly you learn to begin to trust and rely on the other residents in town and you don't have to worry too much, you can also place traps here and there for those people and those traps are active when you are offline. Eventually I'd like to sent a notification to your phone or something when they get someone (with photo)
(with photo)That's great to know, and at the GAF Town I trusted everyone. The only thing that worried me were random people coming to the town via subway trying to mess around. Will there be limits to what people can do depending on whether they have houses or not, etc..? If people can't demolish stuff without having a house then never mind!Slowly you learn to begin to trust and rely on the other residents in town and you don't have to worry too much, you can also place traps here and there for those people and those traps are active when you are offline. Eventually I'd like to sent a notification to your phone or something when they get someone
Slowly you learn to begin to trust and rely on the other residents in town and you don't have to worry too much, you can also place traps here and there for those people and those traps are active when you are offline. Eventually I'd like to sent a notification to your phone or something when they get someone
Nice, sounds pretty good, didn't know traps were active even offline.
A lot of the issues stated in here come out of the fact that we were only in a few hours of playtime bubble. I feel like if a town encounters griefers once or twice, they'd basically be way more prepared if it ever happens again and trap setting would become a regular thing.
There are limits like that already, the only problem is you can buy the disassembler tool from the black market and it had settings that made it "instant" so it was almost impossible to see the people doing it.
This is all being rectified !
serversurfer
Member
Street lights are actually pretty important, because without them, clones wouldn't survive the night. But, once you have enough to cover your town, you won't need any more until it grows some more. Puzzlers like myself basically spend all of their playtime worrying about infrastructure. We watch for the town to expand and make sure the new districts are well lit. We watch for less obvious damage from attacks like the loss of existing street lights and recycling bins and replace them as needed. We handle even more mundane stuff like making sure the turrets and tanks have plenty of ammo.
With regard to Freeman Dollars themselves, I may be mistaken, but they seem to be awarded based on productivity. It seems like they tend to appear when I've been busy working. In the alpha when I had sharp elbows and could hang out at the workbench all day, fairly large piles of Freeman Dollars would collect on the ground behind me, so I'm pretty sure they were a product of my work, and that they were all for me.
I'm certainly not trying to suggest that anyone be pigeonholed. Yes, all of the jobs in the games are pretty accessible, and that's by design. All I'm trying to say is that if there's a job that you don't happen to care for, there's nothing saying you must do it. There's a very good chance that if everyone naturally gravitates to the jobs they enjoy, all of the jobs will end up getting done, because no matter what the job, somebody out there actually gets off on doing it. Something like repairing is particularly accessible because it's something that everyone is supposed to drop what they're doing and pitch in with. That said, I can see towns growing large enough that doing repairs may basically become a full time job, and if that happens, specialists will evolve who do little else, because for whatever reason, it makes them super happy when they do. That may happen even if there's not much repairing to be done. Maybe your townsfolk will just ignore all of their fires because they know Fire Marshal Bob gonna jetpack in and beat them to it anyway, and in half the time and for half the wood, because he spends all of his points on freaky repair perks instead of mining and damage bonuses like a sensible person would.
What I'm trying to say is, you already have a way to skip the puzzles; just skip them, and let someone else worry about it. That's what I try to do with the shooting. Sometimes I get stuck shooting stuff because it needs to get done it doesn't seem to be, but I'm not complaining about the lack of a Skip button, nor complaining about the Skip button being too expensive.
That's the difference between your argument and mine. You say it's ignorant to suggest putting a Skip button on combat, but it's no different from skipping the puzzle. You don't like the puzzle because it's boring, tedious, and prone to failure. That's exactly how I feel about aiming. However, you're the one insisting players be given a cheap option for getting the results without doing the work, and you're the one suggesting that it's vital to skip one core game mechanic and ignorant to skip another.
Regarding my use of italics, it's nothing to do with condescension, but I'm sorry if you took it that way. When you speak to people, do you not emphasize certain words to help convey true meaning and improve clarity? Maybe sometimes even wave your arms around and stuff? Do you do that because you think the person you're talking to is an idiot, or do you do it because it's nice to be clear? I'm just trying to facilitate communication, but I guess I'm not doing a very good job, if you're focused on stuff like how I speak and which one of us is better rather than the things I'm actually saying to you. =/
Like Dylan was saying, it's really not all on your shoulders. Learn to rely on your comrades; that's why they're called that. I promise that me and like five other people are gonna do all of the puzzles that need to be done, and when we run out of puzzles that need to be done, we'll start pouring over town reports and even doing visual surveys to try and figure out when there'll be more puzzles for us to do. We may need occasionally need a hand, but for the most part, we've got this covered, just like other people generally cover the rest.
Also, while you've got a life outside the game, towns will be populated by players from all over the world. Your town shouldn't go unmanned unless you're fairly exclusionary. If it were to go unmanned, you'd be vulnerable to monsters as well as griefers anyway.
Again, I'm sorry for that. I certainly don't mean to sound condescending. If anything, I'm just irritated that your feedback is insisting that the part of the game that I like be neutered simply because you don't happen to care for it. I also don't understand why, given your insistence that people be able to skip the portions of the game they don't care for, you find it ignorant to suggest we be able skip the portions you don't happen to mind so much.
Any chance of a companion app? ^.^Slowly you learn to begin to trust and rely on the other residents in town and you don't have to worry too much, you can also place traps here and there for those people and those traps are active when you are offline. Eventually I'd like to sent a notification to your phone or something when they get someone
Duck seemed to indicate that only residents were supposed to be able to disassemble stuff, but even that won't thwart a dedicated griefer/agent. Like I said, I think it's mostly a balancing issue; we gotta make sure that no matter what they come up with, we're able to respond swiftly and effectively. The existing tools basically allow for griefing. We can either disallow that, or give the community the additional tools they need to deal with it on their own. While the first solution has its merits, I do think latter is the more interesting, and ultimately better option.