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[dream]

Apart from prefight hype talk (and it's MMA, kids, everyone spouts the same sort of BS, the same canned lines, not sure where GSP is special in this regard) how do you lose "credibility" in MMA by taking someone to decision? What does that even mean?

It means GSP fought an incredibly overmatched opponent and couldn't do a thing to him.

 

[GoutPatrol]

It means GSP fought an incredibly overmatched opponent and couldn't do a thing to him.

GSP doesn't try to finish guys though. Why take the risk when he knows he can beat anyone this way?

 

[AranhaHunter]

I'm pretty excited for this event, but there's a high probability that GSP-Shields could be a boring fight, I think Shields has a very dangerous ground game though and could make it entertaining (at least for educated fangs).

 

[dream]

GSP doesn't try to finish guys though. Why take the risk when he knows he can beat anyone this way?

I dunno, it looked like he was trying to pull Dan's arm off in that fight. He just didn't know how to do it properly.

I agree with you though...the guy is a point fighter most of the time. GSP is the modern day Pat Miletich.

 

[Boogie]

It means GSP fought an incredibly overmatched opponent and couldn't do a thing to him.

What does that have to do with GSP's "credibility"?

Because it surely has not altered his place as the #1 WW, or top 2 p4p.

Everyone has poor performances. GSP/Hardy no more destroys GSP's "credibility" than does Silva/Leites or Silva/Maia destroy Silva's.

 

[dream]

What does that have to do with GSP's "credibility"?

Because it surely has not altered his place as the #1 WW, or top 2 p4p.

Everyone has poor performances. GSP/Hardy no more destroys GSP's "credibility" than does Silva/Leites or Silva/Maia destroy Silva's.

It puts a big asterisk beside his name when we talk about him as a p4p great. One that says "*couldn't finish a sloppy British fighter." Or "*did not stop a one eyed wrestler."

Anderson fucking around with his opponents can suck but we know he's capable of knocking anyone out on any night. The best we can say about GSP is he'll go out there and win a bunch of rounds.

 

[Boogie]

It puts a big asterisk beside his name when we talk about him as a p4p great. One that says "*couldn't finish a sloppy British fighter." Or "*did not stop a one eyed wrestler."

Anderson fucking around with his opponents can suck but we know he's capable of knocking anyone out on any night. The best we can say about GSP is he'll go out there and win a bunch of rounds.

It's still selective logic.

Why doesn't Silva have an asterisk that says "*was submitted by a 4-7-1 Japanese tomato can"?

Since June 26, 2010, there are no more Gods in Mixed Martial Arts. Only men.

 

[Heel]

I've yet to see a convincing argument on how Shields gets this to the ground, let alone how he's going to be competitive on the feet. I think we can all agree there's a huge striking discrepancy between the two.

 

[BigJonsson]

I've yet to see a convincing argument on how Shields gets this to the ground, let alone how he's going to be competitive on the feet. I think we can all agree there's a huge striking discrepancy between the two.

So you expect GSP to dance around and jab his eyeball like Kos?

 

[Boogie]

I've yet to see a convincing argument on how Shields gets this to the ground, let alone how he's going to be competitive on the feet. I think we can all agree there's a huge striking discrepancy between the two.

Most of it consists of "Shields has great wrestling. He took down former Olympic wrestler Dan Henderson repeatedly!"

I am skeptical of that example because Hendo A) is old and B) has occasionally shown himself to not have exceptional TDD (ie. being taken down by Bustamante).

 

[dem]

http://www.mmafighting.com/2011/04/22/jason-mayhem-miller-signs-with-ufc/


Mayhem in the UFC


wrong thread.. oops

 

[Boogie]

Nice

 

[hyduK]

Why would you even build a dome in Canada?

So that the shape of the roof stays consistent with that of the igloos we live in, obviously.

 

[yacobod]

dream doing work!

 

[Pristine_Condition]

What does that have to do with GSP's "credibility"?

Because it surely has not altered his place as the #1 WW, or top 2 p4p.

Everyone has poor performances. GSP/Hardy no more destroys GSP's "credibility" than does Silva/Leites or Silva/Maia destroy Silva's.

Right. Unfortunately for your misguided point, the existence of Anderson Silva and Jose Aldo already alters GSP's place as a Top 2 P4P.

Why GSP gets so much of the respect that rightfully belongs to Jose Aldo, is unfathomable to me. GSP hasn't finished anyone in 26+ months. In that time, Jose Aldo has destroyed five men, (2 more men than GSP has fought in the same span,) in truly spectacular fashion, with only one going the distance, only to wind up on crutches due to Aldo's crippling attack.

Jose Aldo Reel

Jose Aldo Speaks the Truth

 

[Boogie]

Right. Unfortunately for your misguided point, the existence of Anderson Silva and Jose Aldo already alters GSP's place as a Top 2 P4P.

Why GSP gets so much of the respect that rightfully belongs to Jose Aldo, is unfathomable to me. GSP hasn't finished anyone in 26+ months. In that time, Jose Aldo has destroyed five men, (2 more men than GSP has fought in the same span,) in truly spectacular fashion, with only one going the distance, only to wind up on crutches due to Aldo's crippling attack.

Jose Aldo Reel

Jose Aldo Speaks the Truth

Because Aldo fights in a division that hasn't yet "established" itself, and he's barely been champion for a year and a half. Until the beginning of this year, 145 was a 2nd tier league by virtue of its WEC status. ie. smaller UFC LWs would make the choice to keep fighting at LW rather than drop to a better-fitting FW division because of the disparity in pay between UFC and WEC. With the merger, that may change.

If Aldo still reigns supreme at 145 in a year and a half to two years from now, I believe the p4p debate becomes a three horse race. It's not yet.

(aside: not many sites put out a p4p ranking. Sherdog's is the most noteworthy, and currently has GSP as #1, but GSP and Silva have pretty much had the top two spots interchangeably over the past couple years. Sherdog has Aldo as #3 p4p, a position I agree with.)

ie: this Jonathon Snowden op-ed piece (as much as I normally can't stand Snowden):

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2011/1/2/1909038/ufc-125-results-forget-what-you-think-you-know-about-the

 

[alr1ght]

Welterweight Championship bout: Georges St-Pierre vs. Jake Shields [decision]
Featherweight Championship bout: José Aldo vs. Mark Hominick [TKO, 2nd]
Light Heavyweight bout: Vladimir Matyushenko vs. Jason Brilz [Submission, 2nd]
Light Heavyweight bout: Randy Couture vs. Lyoto Machida [TKO, 2nd]
Lightweight bout: Mark Bocek vs. Ben Henderson [Decision]

 

[Heel]

So you expect GSP to dance around and jab his eyeball like Kos?

I don't see why he'd avoid a glaring weakness. If I had to guess I'd say he'll employ a similar fight strategy. Using his athleticism and not overcomitting to strikes so he's ready for Shields' attempts to shoot/clench.

Don't forget GSP hit a TD on Kos within 30 seconds of the fight starting. I'm curious to see if GSP is willing to engage and push the wrestling pace with Shields to test his cardio. Would definitely be playing with fire though...

Most of it consists of "Shields has great wrestling. He took down former Olympic wrestler Dan Henderson repeatedly!"

I am skeptical of that example because Hendo A) is old and B) has occasionally shown himself to not have exceptional TDD (ie. being taken down by Bustamante).

Yeah, Hendo was flat footed, plodding forward setting up bombs. The single-leg was ripe for the picking most of the fight. GSP has a different skill set and fight mentality...I think takedown opportunities will be a lot harder to come by.

 

[dream]

GSP has a different skill set and fight mentality...

He certainly does.

I expect to see Shields shooting and pulling guard a lot as GSP backs up and waves him back to his feet.

 

[Ikuu]

What GSP fears the most...

I don't see why GSP takes it to the ground, Shields has possibly the softest hands in the division, while there is the possibility of being submitted.

 

[Heel]

He certainly does.

I expect to see Shields shooting and pulling guard a lot as GSP backs up and waves him back to his feet.

Yeah that's another thing...has Shields ever really been a threat from his back in MMA? Every sub I've seen from him has been from imposing his will on top. Tall order against GSP...

 

[Boogie]

I don't see why he'd avoid a glaring weakness. If I had to guess I'd say he'll employ a similar fight strategy. Using his athleticism and not overcomitting to strikes so he's ready for Shields' attempts to shoot/clench.

Don't forget GSP hit a TD on Kos within 30 seconds of the fight starting. I'm curious to see if GSP is willing to engage and push the wrestling pace with Shields to test his cardio. Would definitely be playing with fire though...

What I think/would like to see GSP do is have a strategy of striking in round 1/halfway through round 2 to soften Shields up. Mid round 2/round 3, after he has softened Shields up standing, he dumps him on his back to work some GnP, and then in the later rounds commits more fully in the standup looking for the finish.

Sort of the inverse of the second Penn fight, in a way.

But then maybe he shoots and puts Shields on his ass in 30 seconds too.

 

[Caspel]

I'm looking forward to the results from the Marquardt/Johnson fight. Also Condit/Kim should be a barnburner that could have title fight implications.

GSP has more potential fights than Anderson Silva. I hope the UFC doesn't pit Silva against GSP anytime soon.

Condit/Kim, Marquardt/Johnson, Sanchez, and potentially Jake Ellenberger.

 

[BigJonsson]

I expect a head kick KO

 

[Boogie]

He certainly does.

I expect to see Shields shooting and pulling guard a lot as GSP backs up and waves him back to his feet.

i hope not

oh god, you've jinxed it now, haven't you?!

fuck you, dream, fuck you!

Spoiler

;P

 

[Boogie]

I expect a head kick KO

I like the cut of your jib. Hughes II style.

 

[BigJonsson]

I like the cut of your jib. Hughes II style.

Nah, UFC Undisputed for 360 style......spam dem head kicks

 

[Enosh]

christ I am stupid, I tought this is today not next week

awwww was already looking forward to it the whole week

 

[Boogie]

This posted yet?

http://youtu.be/HOx3q1nJCVk

 

[desa]

Shields by guillotine! Stockton! Westside!

 

[alr1ght]

Does anyone think GSP will even attempt to shoot on Shields?

 

[Boogie]

Does anyone think GSP will even attempt to shoot on Shields?

I don't think he should, at least for round 1, but it honestly won't surprise me if he does.

 

[TOM f'N CRUISE]

GSP GSP GSP GSP

 

[Beardz]

I won't be able to watch this! Fuck! ... Fuck GSP too!

 

[JB1981]

This posted yet?

http://youtu.be/HOx3q1nJCVk

Man that was awful

 

[pseudocaesar]

I love GSP as a person, but I dont like him as a fighter. He just doesnt take risks. I really want to see Shields RNC him unconscious.

 

[ShaneB]

I mean, I want GSP to win sure, but at this point it's just getting boring. Part of me just wants to see Shields win to see the level of shock.

 

[smurfx]

man having shields win by submission in front of all those canadians fans would be epic. god i hope that's what happens.

 

[dream]

I love GSP as a person, but I dont like him as a fighter. He just doesnt take risks. I really want to see Shields RNC him unconscious.

I mean, I want GSP to win sure, but at this point it's just getting boring. Part of me just wants to see Shields win to see the level of shock.

man having shields win by submission in front of all those canadians fans would be epic. god i hope that's what happens.

You've taken your first step into a larger world.

Support real fighters.

 

[Daigoro]

I love GSP as a person, but I dont like him as a fighter. He just doesnt take risks. I really want to see Shields RNC him unconscious.

yes, because taking risks is what makes a great fighter.

 

[TheKaeptain]

You've taken your first step into a larger world.

Support real fighters.

The guy that couldn't beat Frankie Edgar.

 

[ItAintEasyBeinCheesy]

yes, because taking risks is what makes a great fighter.

If they pay off sure. If not you look like an ass........ then you have gaffers saying he shouldn't take risks.

 

[BigJonsson]

Whoa

Randy is on a 3 fight win streak for the first time in 10 years lol

Of course its not like Coleman, Vera and Toney are top notch fighters these days

 

[ItAintEasyBeinCheesy]

Vera hasnt been HORRIBLE, Randy wrestlefucked him after Vera landed some sweet hits. Bones Jones fucked him good and cracked his skull. Then lost to a cheat.

 

[Pristine_Condition]

If they pay off sure. If not you look like an ass........ then you have gaffers saying he shouldn't take risks.

The "risks" GSP refuses to take aren't even really risky though, and that's what's infuriating.

When he had Kos blinded in one eye, really, how risky would it have been for him to try to work more hooks and kicks to the blind side to get the KO? Not very. Why didn't he? Only him and Jackson know.

How risky would it have been for him to try more than three honest submission attempts in 25 minutes while dominating Hardy on the ground and knowing that he could get another takedown at will? Not risky at all.

IMO, Anthony "Rumble" Johnson made more of an attempt in three rounds to submit Hardy than GSP did in five. Think about that. It's fucking pitiful.

 

[pseudocaesar]

The "risks" GSP refuses to take aren't even really risky though, and that's what's infuriating.

When he had Kos blinded in one eye, really, how risky would it have been for him to try to work more hooks and kicks to the blind side to get the KO? Not very. Why didn't he? Only him and Jackson know.

How risky would it have been for him to try more than three honest submission attempts in 25 minutes while dominating Hardy on the ground and knowing that he could get another takedown at will? Not risky at all.

IMO, Anthony "Rumble" Johnson made more of an attempt in three rounds to submit Hardy than GSP did in five. Think about that. It's fucking pitiful.

I was going to post a response to them, but you pretty much hit the nail on the head.

 

[yacobod]

When he had Kos blinded in one eye, really, how risky would it have been for him to try to work more hooks and kicks to the blind side to get the KO? Not very. Why didn't he? Only him and Jackson know.

cuz you know its really hard to finish the guys at the top of the 170# division :/

 

[Daigoro]

The "risks" GSP refuses to take aren't even really risky though, and that's what's infuriating.

When he had Kos blinded in one eye, really, how risky would it have been for him to try to work more hooks and kicks to the blind side to get the KO? Not very. Why didn't he? Only him and Jackson know.

How risky would it have been for him to try more than three honest submission attempts in 25 minutes while dominating Hardy on the ground and knowing that he could get another takedown at will? Not risky at all.

IMO, Anthony "Rumble" Johnson made more of an attempt in three rounds to submit Hardy than GSP did in five. Think about that. It's fucking pitiful.

Bones I up and coming and hungry. GSP is on top. Why risk the belt trying to get fancy when you can cruise to an easy decision an d come out without a scratch?

I prefer more exciting fights too, but you can't really fault the strategy.

 

[alr1ght]

Bones I up and coming and hungry. GSP is on top. Why risk the belt trying to get fancy when you can cruise to an easy decision an d come out without a scratch?

I prefer more exciting fights too, but you can't really fault the strategy.

He will get more money if he's entertaining (more entertaining = more PPV buys. I'm sure he gets a percentage). I used to love to watch him fight. His fight against Trigg was completely amazing. Serra 2 was great as well. When you're grinding out decisions in 5 round fights, you're going to get some backlash. Koscheck 2 was entertaining in the fact that he was so much better than him, yet disappointing because he never really tried to finish him.

 

[yacobod]

I prefer more exciting fights too, but you can't really fault the strategy.

yes you can when you are in the sports entertainment industry