RunLikeH3LL
Member
Older Silverlight apps run fine on W10M. App compatibility was never broken.
How is a long term vision of unifying their code for all platforms the "hot" thing of the month?
The Verge: Windows Phone is dead
- Thread starter giga
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Older Silverlight apps run fine on W10M. App compatibility was never broken.
How is a long term vision of unifying their code for all platforms the "hot" thing of the month?
Because they keep redefining the standard for what unification is. I had a Zune. They promised unification back in the day, yet it had a separate media player from windows media player that was identical in functionality but slower. Then I had a windows phone. They promised unification but it never came. Not in wp7, not in wp8. They promised unification with win10 across Xbox, wp and Windows, but it's still yet to happen in a way that gives WP sufficient apps and the ability to run those on Xbox.
The problem is, just like their commitment to PC gaming, they reiterate their vision for unifying their platform every year, and rebuild it from the ground up breaking all previous efforts instead of iteratively improving them. They're like that unreliable friend of yours who keeps saying he'll clean up his act but never does.
Exactly. I was a hardcore MS supporter back in the Zune days, glad I saw that it was becoming a sinking ship and picked Android over Windows Phone.
RunLikeH3LL
Member
If they were never committed to unification then we wouldn't be there today. Windows 10 is a unified platform, just because you cant dump your UWP app to Xbox doesnt mean the codebase isn't there to support it. The platform is where it needs to be, and that is important.
There was a good slide i saw a while ago that showed how the code was beginning to align with each new version of Windows from 7 to 10. It was a long term plan that took years to implement.
EDIT: Here is the slide.
http://www.icxm.net/team/uploads/threshold_banner.jpg
RunLikeH3LL
Member
Yes. It is fully unified now.
Uno Venova
Banned
Maybe not the people here, who always do the extra research, but having an official app so casual users don't need to search around to see which third party app might work and be the best would help wonders.
Chittagong
Gold Member
It seems to do, but I struggle to see how it hs benefitted Microsoft, not to mention the consumer. Windows Phone app situation is as bad as ever, RT is dead, Xbox doesn't even get apps, and the Windows apps store is not exactly booming either. All the lost users for... what exactly?
Nah, it's like someone who paints their house, but always decides to paint it another colour before they finish, each time starting from a different place. So, their house is a mismatched patchwork of colours.
One of the big issues is they tend to have a "superstar manager of the year" thing going on. Some dude will work his way up the org chart with a "vision", the bosses will latch onto that vision, and all their product lines will be reoriented to match that vision. Then a year later some new guy will have a "better" vision, the old guy will be shuffled out, and everything starts again.
Their old slogan "Where do you want to go today?" is a metaphor for the company itself.
Manmademan
Member
He's saying why bother with an app at all when you can just as easily go to youtube.com.
There is no official GAF app, the page itself is mobile optimized. So is youtube. There's an app, but there's little utility it offers over the website.
If anything an "official app" is worse, since the vast majority of those things datamine the hell out of you when they have no business doing so.
True, but under Satay they've become much more streamlined. His vision going forward was/is the correct one. He's done an incredible job with a company this size. Seems everyone is on the same page and acting like one cohesive unit.
RunLikeH3LL
Member
It benefits MS by having a single core for all, makes development much easier and quicker. It benefits the consumer by having a universal, and cohesive app experience across all their Window 10 devices.
Xbox UWP app submission should be coming very soon, either at this upcoming Xbox event, or at build. I mean come on, the Xbox was just updated to 10 in November.
He's only been CEO for two years. Give it time. They'll probably "realign" their vision by year's end.
RunLikeH3LL
Member
It isn't true. The former Windows lead (Steven Sinofsky) was in charged for years all the way up to Windows 8, then management was realigned and now Terry Myerson is the head of the Windows, there was never a rock star of the month.
Satay has done a good job expanding their mobile presence among popular platforms, stream lining managment and bringing teams together. His cloud push is also working out extraordinary well for MS.
But Sinofsky wasn't hand picked by Satya right? I think he has his people in place now, of course there's going to be tweaking and such.
RunLikeH3LL
Member
Definitely not, he was there under Gates and Ballmer, but even the current heads aren't new and fresh, they've been around for years.
His plan to shift around management is basically done at this point. I wouldn't expect any major moves unless somebody leaves or someone really screws up (ex. Xbox One launch).
I've been considering getting out of the Apple ecosystem for some time, and it looks like I'll be making the jump in 2017 or so, but Windows Phone has never been a consideration for my iPhone replacement. I've always had an Android device in mind for my mobile.
But the Surface Pro 4 (or 5 by then, I guess) with a good keyboard and desktop docking solution would be a great replacement for my iPad and Mac Mini.
I guess my point is that MS should play to their strengths and double down on them.
- Surface is a good product, as are many other Windows 10 tablets.
- MS-made or bought services including Office, Wunderlist, Outlook, Sunrise Calendar (RIP), and so on are great products that should enjoy ubiquity across all platforms.
- Windows 10 for desktop and laptop is a great product that runs on a large variety of systems.
- Xbox One is a great product.
Windows Phone, however, is not a great product. The app ecosystem sucks, and using the damn thing is not good to use for anyone more familiar with how Android and iOS does things (i.e. every smartphone customer MS is trying to steal from Google and Apple). My mother bought a Windows Phone recently because it was cheap, and she's learnt her lesson there. Next time she will get an Android device or iPhone.
Not many people buy all-in on one manufacturer, though. Some people have Macs for work, but prefer Android phones, or maybe they use Windows laptops/tablets/desktops and have an iPhone for their mobile. Microsoft's money is in making software that's like glue for people's different digital devices. Office, Skype, One Note, Wunderlist and so on should be their focus, so they can bring people's stuff between different ecosystems.
But the Surface Pro 4 (or 5 by then, I guess) with a good keyboard and desktop docking solution would be a great replacement for my iPad and Mac Mini.
I guess my point is that MS should play to their strengths and double down on them.
- Surface is a good product, as are many other Windows 10 tablets.
- MS-made or bought services including Office, Wunderlist, Outlook, Sunrise Calendar (RIP), and so on are great products that should enjoy ubiquity across all platforms.
- Windows 10 for desktop and laptop is a great product that runs on a large variety of systems.
- Xbox One is a great product.
Windows Phone, however, is not a great product. The app ecosystem sucks, and using the damn thing is not good to use for anyone more familiar with how Android and iOS does things (i.e. every smartphone customer MS is trying to steal from Google and Apple). My mother bought a Windows Phone recently because it was cheap, and she's learnt her lesson there. Next time she will get an Android device or iPhone.
Not many people buy all-in on one manufacturer, though. Some people have Macs for work, but prefer Android phones, or maybe they use Windows laptops/tablets/desktops and have an iPhone for their mobile. Microsoft's money is in making software that's like glue for people's different digital devices. Office, Skype, One Note, Wunderlist and so on should be their focus, so they can bring people's stuff between different ecosystems.
Part of the problem lies with what you said at the end though. I use Windows and Mac computers but my primary email and communication software is Google and it works fine on all my devices. Third party ecosystems just aren't welcome on Windows phone because the apps don't exist. The time I used WP was miserable because of that. The Facebook app was bad as well, as were many other big ecosystems. If WP wants more people then they need to enable other ecosystems instead of being good for only MS stuff. I also used to hear a lot from app developers that restrictions on MS's end prevented their apps from running properly. They need to stop expecting every app to play by their UI rules and let devs make their apps consistent across platforms.
Wowfunhappy
Member
I don't understand the point of continuum at all.
How often am I going to:
1) Be without my laptop (because, let's face it, this isn't about to actually replace my laptop)
2) Be with a mouse, keyboard, and monitor
3) Have the time to plug everything in and get it hooked up properly.
It seems like an interesting tech demo, I guess, but beyond that it seems completely pointless. If you really need to carry around a pocketable computer—and I think the number of people who need/want this is quite small—get one of those intel sticks.
How often am I going to:
1) Be without my laptop (because, let's face it, this isn't about to actually replace my laptop)
2) Be with a mouse, keyboard, and monitor
3) Have the time to plug everything in and get it hooked up properly.
It seems like an interesting tech demo, I guess, but beyond that it seems completely pointless. If you really need to carry around a pocketable computer—and I think the number of people who need/want this is quite small—get one of those intel sticks.
I think Continuum is a more forward-thinking technology. Much like desktops and laptops started plateauing a decade ago, mobile SoCs are approaching the point where they're good enough for 90% of the needs of everyone but gamers and content creators. All the power of a laptop will soon be in one of these things, and people will start getting used to the idea of that being their primary computer.
So what they're working towards is a pocket computer that you can unplug from a dock, or whatever, and take with you. It won't complement your laptop or desktop, it will be your desktop or laptop.
Whether that pans out or not, who knows.
If you are into Google eco then it might not work for you. I'm Apple and MS user and I use Onedrive and all of MS apps. They all work great on both. Right now I'm Android, but I use all MS stuff. I even use their Arrow Launcher which I really like. Even when I had a 6 plus I mainly used all of MS stuff. Esp Outlook and Office 365 stuff. It's just a preference. Esp when my job is Office 365.
This. That's what they are going for is 3-5 years in the future. I imagine having a phone that does everything and not having to carry around a laptop would be beneficial to business travelers.
That was where they lost me. I liked my WP7 phone and really thought they'd support it but they just binned it off. I get there was probably some technical reasons but I'm not going to support their platform if they're prepared to just cut and run when the wind changes.
The question is do they have the 3-5 years needed for that to happen?
Google's working in that direction, and it's safe to assume Apple is too. But rather than doing what Microsoft is doing, squeezing the desktop experience into the phone, they're going at it from the opposite direction, extending the mobile experience out of the phone.
So it will come down to whether consumers, largely Millennials, are more loyal to their desktop experience, or more loyal to their mobile experience.
Enterprise will still be buying desktops and laptops, but when the consumer world stops buying them, and I know this is hard to imagine given how long Windows has completely dominated, Windows' oxygen supply will be cut off quite fast if Windows Mobile never catches on.
Sure, the jump to 8 was pretty rough, but even the Lumia 920---one of the first Windows Phone 8 devices---will get Windows 10 Mobile more than three years after it launched.
Well, that's nice but lets wait and see how it performs with a final build and how long they support that.
Microsoft launched the flagship Lumia 900 on WP7 knowing fine well, WP8 was around the corner less than 6 months later along with the 920. What a kick in the teeth that was to consumers. 2 year contract, enjoy.
MickeyKnox
Member
Did iOS then the Android thing, then I got a 920, loved it then upgraded to this thing
haven't looked back. Granted, my use case is photos (low light no flash), music and communication so the dearth of apps is kind of a non issue.
haven't looked back. Granted, my use case is photos (low light no flash), music and communication so the dearth of apps is kind of a non issue.
RunLikeH3LL
Member
Apple and Google aren't working on anything close to continuum at this moment in time.
Also Microsoft isn't squeezing the desktop into the phone, it is an extension of the phone so that you have a desktop environment when you need/want it. It isn't hard to imagine businesses buying continuum enabled monitors and buying Windows based phones or mobile devices that run UWP and win32 applications.
Did iOS then the Android thing, then I got a 920, loved it then upgraded to this thing
haven't looked back. Granted, my use case is photos (low light no flash), music and communication so the dearth of apps is kind of a non issue.
That's so chunky and gross looking.
RunLikeH3LL
Member
Did the Lumia 900 stop working after WP8 was released? Also how many older Android phones get upgraded to the latest version? Must be a ton of teeth getting kicked in.
Correction: How many Android phones released last year will get upgraded to the latest version?
yeah that UI is far too cluttered.
Umm, isn't the 900 supposed to be a flagship device?
It didn't, but it did stop getting app support as what few developers there was moved onto 8.
RunLikeH3LL
Member
The UI is as cluttered or clean as you want it to be. It is highly customizable.
Yes, and it still received support and software upgrades (7.8).
RunLikeH3LL
Member
Yes but It wasn't immediate. Many of those 900 customers moved to the 920 quickly so there was little impact.
You're forgetting: Apple doesn't say shit about what they're working on until it's ready to go. Then there's Google, with Chrome OS and their weird Pixel C. In 3-5 years we could see an iPhone X that expands into a (non-Mac) desktop, and a Pixel phone that expands into whatever solution Google stumbles towards.
At that point you'll have consumer evaluating just how attached they are to Windows.
And by "squeezing the desktop into the phone", I mean fitting the capability into phone form factor. Not using the desktop on the phone.
sankt-Antonio
Banned
Got a Lumina 535 as my working phone. God damn is it a shit phone. I really want them to stop supporting these windowsphones just so that I may get a somewhat usable smartphone for my work.
RunLikeH3LL
Member
So in theory if Apple and Google release a unified core and something similar to continuum in 3 to 5 years, and MS already has a solution now. Who is in better position if this new "form factor" becomes the next big thing? MS owns the enterprise desktop space and that won't change for years, if not decades, and their Azure cloud platform is growing at an incredible rate. They are in a better position then anyone to push this.
Simple: Whoever has the most consumers locked into their ecosystem.
Let's say you have an iPhone or Android phone, and a Windows desktop. These new all-in-one phones are all the rage, and you want to get one. Which do you choose?
Your phone probably has dozens, or even hundreds, of apps on it, all tied to your account. Your Windows machine, unless you're a gamer or content creator, probably has a web browser and Microsoft Office.
If Microsoft can't establish a fulfilling Windows ecosystem fairly soon, and get people locked into it, Windows is absolutely doomed in the long term.
This is why Microsoft Office is available on iOS and Android. They're hedging their bets in case Windows fails, and they don't want an alternative office suite getting too big.
As for enterprise, if the BYOD trend continues, that spells bad news for Windows on that front too. Enterprise used to push tech into the home. (Which is why home users originally chose Windows.) Now it's the other way around.
Sounds like Oslo is stuck in the 80's. Vipps is where it's at.
You guys are gonna love it when you get cds and can get rid of your cassette decks.
Android is my favourite mobile OS, but out of iOS or Windows, I prefer Windows a lot more. iOS is a fairly poor mobile OS and I prefer the aesthetics, usability and intuitiveness of Windows.
That said, if I had to move from Android to iOS or Windows for whatever reason, I would have to choose iOS simply because of the apps. There are certain apps that I rely on a lot now(including banking apps) that just aren't available on Windows. Heck, even iOS wouldn't completely replace Android apps-wise for me either since a bunch of apps I use just don't exist on iOS.
That said, if I had to move from Android to iOS or Windows for whatever reason, I would have to choose iOS simply because of the apps. There are certain apps that I rely on a lot now(including banking apps) that just aren't available on Windows. Heck, even iOS wouldn't completely replace Android apps-wise for me either since a bunch of apps I use just don't exist on iOS.
flaxknuckles
Member
HUH
The Youtube app on Android has picture-in-pircture mode while you browse for other videos, it switches videos to audio when you are in another app, casting, and has offline-viewing support. Plus it's just way slicker to use. That's not "little utility".
Your Entertainer
Member
hnnnnngggggghhhhhh ios version needs this
Gunslinger
Member
Microsoft should stick to OS and Xbox. What they do best. Zune was a failure, phone turned out to be a failure, hows the market for surface?
It does if you pay for YouTube Red, same as Android.
Unknown Soldier
Member
I don't really think they should stick with Xbox either, it has never been really successful. Even the 360 was mainly an American console and that was the best MS has ever done with Xbox. The Bone is heading for a distant second place finish this gen and it's not going to be close worldwide or in the US.
Gunslinger
Member
It's still selling all right. We are back to ps2 era where Sony dominated the console market. It will probably outsell Xbox but will lag behind 360. Good enough for Xbox two imo.
nillapuddin
Member
Did iOS then the Android thing, then I got a 920, loved it then upgraded to this thing
haven't looked back. Granted, my use case is photos (low light no flash), music and communication so the dearth of apps is kind of a non issue.
greatest phone of all time.
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