GameplayWhore
Member
Ooooh, I just got this flashback to the movie Legend, where they had to carry in and carefully angle a whole bunch of mirrors to get sunlight to reach a distant, dark corridor underground.
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Ooooh, I just got this flashback to the movie Legend, where they had to carry in and carefully angle a whole bunch of mirrors to get sunlight to reach a distant, dark corridor underground.
Let's say in the fire temple there's only one light source, the middle of the volcano. You have to systematically open up channels throughout the volcano which allows lava to flow causing more light in new areas. You have a lantern that on lights around you. When you fight an enemy you have to turn off the lantern, enemy has a fire sword you use to see when you attack. Etc.
In a Snowy region, you're in a mansion that has light inside, but when you travel out its almost impossible to see because the snow fall is so thick. In the distance you see a treasure chest through the snow but have no clue how to get there. Parts of the mansion are beginning to fall apart with the heavy snowfall. Boss fight is in the mansion when all of a sudden it flies through the roof causing you to fight in the middle of the snow storm while barely visible.
Water temple can be dark and murky. I have more ideas but I gotta head to class hah
axisofweevils
Holy crap! Today's real megaton is that more than two people can have the same first name.
Uh oh. More Nintendoom from Forbes.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngau...ind-sony-playstation-4-and-microsoft-durango/
And once again, I bring up last year's "Japanese gamers are more interested in a Vita than the 3DS" poll.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngau...ind-sony-playstation-4-and-microsoft-durango/
And once again, I bring up last year's "Japanese gamers are more interested in a Vita than the 3DS" poll.
snowdog1971
Banned
Yup, makes you wonder what the Wii's marketshare really is when you take into account replacement consoles due to RROD and YLOD errors. I know a few people that are on their third 360, which is just ridiculous. Isn't it something like 1 in 3 360 consoles end up failing..? Or is that an urban myth..?
/Rauru would make a pretty neat companion, now that I think of it. But I'd still prefer that Link's next adventure be absolutely a lonely, solo affair.
Nintendo will be on the usual 5-6 year cycle.
Yeah it does look like we're on the same page. However I think I may be expecting/hoping for a bit more power than you. =p
IIRC The ps3's went up to ~200W under load while playing games. I could be wrong, but I think ~250W and maybe ~300W as an extreme would be doable. It all depends on factors like cooling, casing size, etc.
It's much more complicated than that though. What's happening in this Bird demo can easily be faked while what's being done in UE4 sounds like a whole different level IMO.
SDKs from Nintendo, MS, and Sony don't really work like that. They offer tools and performance analyzers, not the actual middleware software engines to make games.
Edit:
Was it rumored the Bird demo was being run on UE4? Not sure why you would think this.
I sometimes let out a snarky comment about the 360 and PS2's sales figures based on this issue. If Nintendo made shoddy hardware, I wonder where their sales numbers would be.Yup, makes you wonder what the Wii's marketshare really is when you take into account replacement consoles due to RROD and YLOD errors. I know a few people that are on their third 360, which is just ridiculous. Isn't it something like 1 in 3 360 consoles end up failing..? Or is that an urban myth..?
Holy Nayru, I hope that this next console is built like my Atari.. like a friggin' tank!
GameplayWhore
Member
Well, Sony did say that they wanted the PS3 to last ten years*. Perhaps it will be normal to aim for a long generation but plan for a short one as a contingency.
Question is, can Apple get something like that in the living room? The Apple TV is an interesting example to look at: A box that plays stuff on your TV. It is selling well, but it is not a behemoth.
* this was initially taken to mean "for the cycle", though I think they meant "total lifespan", but it does seem like they left it open to interpretation.
Refreshment.01
Member
This has to be one of the most interesting figures i've seen, no joke. Where did you got them?
Or im understanding wrong? So after all this time and just factoring Xbox business MS only have made 250 mm?
So we should make fun of such posters? At this stage in time we should be more careful to make judgment based on pictures only. It's not applicable to all cases at least.
The dev declarations are some what sustained. Remember Nintendo unveiled the console last E3 so based on the case volume there's some
educated speculation that can be made by educated people.
Thought people with Ipads are interested mostly in Ipad apps and games?
No worries there since it won't be a waste. There's a lot of improvements to be had in the next round of machines even with some of the same engines available today.
Skiesofwonder
Walruses, camels, bears, rabbits, tigers and badgers.
Honestly I find this whole UE4 argument a mute discussion in the bigger picture. Anyone suspecting significant Western Support for Wii-U is in for a disappointment. Unless some currently unforeseeable huge mistake from both Microsoft and Sony is made, the majority of Western support will be developed for those platforms. The next two years we will see most titles developed for the HD twins with some (best case scenario, most) getting up-ports to Wii-U with a few exclusives thrown in the mix. Once their next-gen machines are released, most of the major western developers will move their resources to developing titles for those systems (even if it a unsafe move financially). UE4 supported or not by Wii-U, most developers will be using so much of their resources developing for two systems that a Wii-U downgraded version will be an after-thought in most scenarios.
The big play for Wii-U is the Eastern market. Home consoles have become me-too systems. All major support is headed to handhelds, mostly because of smaller households, one TV, and heavy travel lifestyles. The Wii-U is making a huge play to regain some footing for home consoles with the U-pad. If Wii-U can succeed in at least bringing importance back to home consoles in Asia that the Wii and PS3 lost compared to the PS2 (which I think it can), we could see a lot of the substantial Eastern support being developed for Wii-U first.
Depending on how far out the new Sony console is, that could potentially effect how deep they go into the graphics race with Microsoft. Could you imagine if PS4 was a slight upgrade over Wii-U graphically while the 720 was a sizable notch above everything else? That would make for some VERY interesting developments in the video game industry everywhere.
The big play for Wii-U is the Eastern market. Home consoles have become me-too systems. All major support is headed to handhelds, mostly because of smaller households, one TV, and heavy travel lifestyles. The Wii-U is making a huge play to regain some footing for home consoles with the U-pad. If Wii-U can succeed in at least bringing importance back to home consoles in Asia that the Wii and PS3 lost compared to the PS2 (which I think it can), we could see a lot of the substantial Eastern support being developed for Wii-U first.
Depending on how far out the new Sony console is, that could potentially effect how deep they go into the graphics race with Microsoft. Could you imagine if PS4 was a slight upgrade over Wii-U graphically while the 720 was a sizable notch above everything else? That would make for some VERY interesting developments in the video game industry everywhere.
GameplayWhore
Member
Heh, I've never cared too much for that aspect of game devices. When I played Duke Nukem 3D (or maybe it was DOOM), it literally ran in slow motion (fps was slower, but frames didn't drop). :O
Mind, I won't complain if performance is higher, so long as other aspects of a system are not negatively affected (like reliability, features, and so on).
So it wouldn't be too unusual a case to get a >100W gpu. *checks quickly* Even now, a 130W (obviously retail, non-customized for consoles) Radeon can get us to 1.76TFLOPS. A year from now we may be able to achieve much more a this power level.
It was pretty epic when bringing this up when discussing sales became a bannable offense. Posters were dropping like flies!
That would be one heck of a scenario, and for Sony's sake, I would hope that they choose such a sensible path. We'd get to find out just how much of a grip Microsoft has on Western developers, and maybe even who truly leads in Japan.
Outside of the bolded, I pretty much agree. The Wii U's primary hope for third-party support lies in Japan. Western devs, to me, seem to have made their collective minds up on Nintendo some time ago.
Well, I respond on the topic now because I honestly do wonder how much of an impact such an issue has on sales. It's a legit issue, from what I can tell. All of my friends but one have had to replace consoles of some sort,so I've gotten to experience their pain somewhat, and it leaves me wishing that there were a better way to gather statistics on this issue.
I agree, I always wondered what thing'd be like if two of the three consoles were 'underpowered' relative to the other one.
This is Sony though, I thought they'd make the Vita only slightly more powerful than the 3DS but with a lack of 3D. The tradeoff that the 3D effect caused would have allowed the Vita to be a powerful system, yet it'd be cheaper, have superior controls, battery life, launch titles and multimedia capability. Sony however, did a Sony and went for GRAPHIXSH.
And here we are.
GameplayWhore
Member
I keep a lazy record of Nintendo/Sony/Microsoft earnings reports (with citations in the cell comments showing sources). Specifically, it remembers the operating income of the divisions in which the systems sell. For Microsoft, it's the "Entertainment and Devices" division. For Sony, it was the "Game" division then the "Networked Products & Services" division then the "Consumer Products & Services" division. For Nintendo… it's Nintendo.
NB: Microsoft's division also contains the Zune, which sold poorly. Sony's devices also contain things like.. I dunno, the Walkman is still a thing, right?… as well as the PS2, whose ongoing sales likely made the losses seem less bad than they were. Also the massive pre-gen R&D costs are not figured in.
There are problems with my method of record keeping. For one thing, they often go back later on and change numbers, probably due to inflation and so forth. But it's close enough to being accurate to work with on a basic level.
For Microsoft, they were basically bleeding cash indiscriminately from launch until and including the middle of 2007 (that was, I think, when they took that billion dollar RROD charge). Then they generally started making a profit with losses every few quarters. And from the middle of 2010 until the end of 2011 they were consistently profiting. I was surprised when they posted a loss this quarter, but it's probably partly (largely?) due to R&D for the upcoming generation.
They're in a really good position now. It just took a while for their profits to overcome the initial losses.
Not shown: I think the Xbox Classic was an overall loss of four billion dollars, but I don't have the numbers. My focus was an attempt to measure profitability of current gen, though (also because choosing this particular time span unfairly benefits Nintendo in charts ^_^ ).
edit: There's also a "By Year" tab which shows everything by calendar year, including the totals for the Big Three added together, but the values were generally pasted in from my original spreadsheet, so I'd have to update and double check them when I have the time.
edit²: Regarding your original question, if you count the original Xbox, Microsoft is probably still heavily in the red, but current, ongoing profits are generally considered more pertinent to a company's health than averaging out past performance, so it is not something people really harp on.
I know this will fall on deaf ears, but again, it is just way too early to know what type of 3rd party support Wii U will receive once 3rd parties move on. So many variables. I see a plausible path whether Wii U does very well, and I see a plausible path where it is largely ignored like Wii.
But we really will not know for a long time.
But we really will not know for a long time.
E3 is in about 18 days give or take. I'm surprised we haven't had a leak since the Rayman Legends incident.
I think we'll know how 3rd parties really feel about the Wii U as soon as 720/PS4 are out.
I think we'll know how 3rd parties really feel about the Wii U as soon as 720/PS4 are out.
Portugeezer
Member
You are assuming 720/PS4 will be a huge leap over Wii U. I don't think it will.
Also wasn't the Xbox a beast compared to PS2? No one gave a fuck because PS2 was the bawss.
lordfroakie
Member
Oh look, more rumors:
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Refreshment.01
Member
Yet the amazing hardware specs was what made the PSP a success. If it was just a notch above DS processing wise it would performed even less favorably.
Also Vita is not just about the graphics, it's a rounded machine with a rich feature set. Ironically the 3DS is more about the graphixzzz than what the DS was. The new market realities is what screwed up Sony more than anything else.
Skiesofwonder
Walruses, camels, bears, rabbits, tigers and badgers.
Honestly it is the only scenario where I see Wii-U getting significant western support 2-3 years down the road. Depending on how much of a lesson Sony has learned from the Vita and even the PS3, it could actually happen. Surely Sony realizes that it is not going to win a slugfest for the hardcore market with Microsoft...
Speaking on Patcher's comment, I believe Microsoft is in a great position with Kinect. I foresee the 360 with Kinect living well past the introduction and release of the 720. I believe that Microsoft will drop the price and continue to release casual content for Kinect 360, having a cheap casual system for casual gamers to pick up, while the hardcore market will presumably move to the 720.
The gap between Vita and 3DS seems notably larger than the DS and PSP gap.
The Vita would still have been an impressive system if it were only slightly more powerful than the 3DS, however the power level that it's at now is simply overkill as that is ultimately what has made the price so high. How can you say it'd have performed worse by being more powerful than the 3DS, with better controls and games for a lower price?
Lastly, no. The 3DS is around PS2/GC level of specs, that means it's a natural progression from the DS/N64/PS1 level systems. It's what you'd expect.
SolidSnakex
Member
What lesson would they have learned from the PS3 and Vita? The PS3's price had a lot more to do with being a Blu-ray player than it did with the power of the console. And the Vita's problem has very little to do with the power. The sales wouldn't be much different had they gone with a less powerful but cheaper system. The games are the problem.
AceBandage
Banned
New market realities? A lack of compelling software is not a new reason for systems to tank.
Sony did what it always does. Makes hardware in hopes that software will follow. Which is idiotic.
Refreshment.01
Member
I'll check this out later thanks for sharing it.
Yes, the figure that's always surface regarding the XBOX 1 is 4 billion in the gutter. Talk about a Pyrrhic victory for a second place. Conception is that Nintendo walked away from the GC generation in the black and just /3 millions behind.
So you don't think there's a declined interest in dedicated portable gaming devices in favor of smart phones and other general more general purpose gizmos? That's not what travels around and not what an important space of the development community thinks..
Retro making a MMO confirmed
Agree on MS. They seem to be pretty solid in more than one aspect going into the next cycle.
I'm not sure that Sony realizes or is willing to admit that MS owns the hardcore market yet. While this E3 is going to be fascinating for observing Nintendo's chosen direction, next E3 is also going to be fascinating to see how the other two make their countermoves and position themselves going into the next half-decade. And part of me wonders if Nintendo is content to sit back and let those two slug it out, all while knowing that to take on Microsoft directly is folly.
Speaking of software, I still think that if Sony had nurtured their IPs properly from the beginning, they'd be in much better shape..
Retro Pokemon MMO.
Hopefully it's Prime 4 with a massive overworld.
I can see it now. Nintendo will show content after content after content. If Nintendo doesn't show a new 3D Mario title at this E3, you can bet they're going to save it for next E3. I can not see Nintendo sitting back in terms of their software output. If they're really trying to recapture the core audience they lost then they're going to have to go all out next E3.
It's going to be a FPS or TPS. I'm calling it now.
Gahiggidy
My aunt & uncle run a Mom & Pop store, "The Gamecube Hut", and sold 80k WiiU within minutes of opening.
I interpret this to mean that Nintendo is providing 3rd party developers a means to literally tweak their E3 demos until the 11th hour. Having pressed demo discs might take a few extra days of lead time, methinks.
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Those are some pretty awesome rumors. True or not, its about damn time we got something to hype, hype, hype!
The iOS market is more like the PC market as far as spec progression...for better or worse. I think a big difference Apple can make is that their box can be pretty cheap (like $99 Apple TV plus some controllers) so newer generation adoption can generally be pretty quick.
I think the biggest issue for Apple is that people expect shit to be cheap as hell, big budget games can ponetially sell a boatload if the userbase is there...but they would need to at the lower prices.
Skiesofwonder
Walruses, camels, bears, rabbits, tigers and badgers.
I think the 720 will be for sure. I'm also assuming Wii-U is at best similar to 360 with more up to date parts making for a "2x 360". Like I posted earlier, Microsoft is in a position to have Kinect 360 continue to be their go-to platform for casual offerings while they will offer a sizable upgrade graphically for the hardcore market.
First of all, the Xbox was too late to the party and too much of a new guy to ever gain a majority share of the market during that generation. Second, most developers at the time had prepared to move to the PS2 and were already having success so there wasn't enough change or motivation to take a chance of moving the majority of their resources to Xbox/GCN, therefore most third-party exclusives were developed for PS2 and most multiplatform title's lead platform was PS2.
Same thing can basically be said for the 360 with the PS3 this generation.
The biggest rumor he is claiming is that Ubisoft will be quiet until E3
GameplayWhore
Member
Mind, if it was just a notch above DS processing wise, they would have been able to price it more competitively.
I agree with this. I really liked that Sony tried to make the Vita more than just "PSP with more oomph". There are a bunch of extras in the system that allow for developers to really explore different game play possibilities, like the extra stick, the capacitive screen and the back touchpad. The 3DS's functional* additions were basically the camera (also in the Vita) and an analog directional (also in the Vita), which seems rather lacking overall.
* I'm pretty giddy about 3D, but I'm talking about features that can be used to expand what you can do in games, and the visual elements added by depth aren't going to be utilized for this sort of thing very much.
edit: oh, crap, I forgot about the motion stuff in the 3DS! That's pretty big, I will admit, though "also in the Vita" still applies.
That GPU (7850?) is already on a 28nm process, so I can't see much more power for 130w even in a years time. Microsoft may get something slightly better, but I'm predicting PS4 will be below 100w.
Not yet confirmed.
TheNatural
My Member!
A little late for that isn't it?
Christberg
Member
I don't know that I necessarily agree. What happens when the launch period "core" games turn out to, you know, sell?
If AC3, Aliens CM and Black Ops 2 sell, what then? Developers continue to leave money on the table?
I have no reason to believe it won't happen at this point.
If Nintendo pulls out hardware that's "good enough" and amass significant enough install base advantage before the competiton launches it won't matter what Sony and MS put out. They'll get PS2ed regardless.
Doesn't hurt that I see the touchscreen on the controller as a potential second coming of the analog thumb stick.
GameplayWhore
Member
Xbox was Microsoft's third attempt to enter the video game market (after the MSX and the Dreamcast, the latter in a sort of stealth manner). It's an industry with a high cost of entry nowadays, and they did what they needed to. Even if they were in third place, if the numbers were around the same then they would have still gotten their foot in the door.
Unless the Third Xbox somehow unexpectedly bombs, Microsoft's long term strategy is paying off.
There will be always a secret that waits for Ubisoft to reveal it - and they will
It's going to be very fun watching reactions here at GAF as images from the next-gen consoles begin to roll-in. A noticeable number of people were overly critical about the PS3 & 360's early titles, claiming that they weren't much of a visual jump.. I wonder how people are going to handle the visual changes we see in this and next year's E3 conferences. Makes me wonder if there's going to be a bit of a shock on either side of the "diminishing/not diminishing" argument.
AceBandage
Banned
Until I see proof otherwise then it's not true. People may buy games for phones but they don't buy phones for games.
Getting rid of most of their Japanese studios is biting them in the ass more. They need them for handhelds.
Eminem discography
GameplayWhore
Member
That's impossible. Ubisoft would have to blow their HQ up for that to happen. Therefore, this set of rumours must be utterly false.
*checks* You're right! I should add, though, that they can probably get a lot of the cruft* cut out of the GCN architecture which could drop the power consumption somewhat. So maybe they could reach 2TFLOPS on that same process at that same power draw. But this (as nearly everything I talk about here) is getting well above my particular level of knowledge.
* nerds still say "cruft", right?
JaseMath
Member
Wasn't there a Matt C. rumor a while back that said Retro is doing the new Zelda? Personally, I don't think they are (nor do I want them to), but I'm not going to be upset if it's true.
GameplayWhore
Member
"Fat Princess U"
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