The worst thing about PC gaming is....

64gigabyteram

64gigabyteram

Reverse groomer.
The fact that PCs and PC components, are now seen as more than just vehicles for entertainment and creativity. They, especially their components and power, are now being viewed as investments.

Thanks to AI, crypto, and all that other tech-bro Web3 grifting shit, components like ram and GPUs which were simply once seen as products for gamers and creators like me and you, components that were exclusively for us to play games like Crysis and GTA5 at high framerates (or do some quick and easy blender renders), are now being scalped and overpriced in low supply. Corporations and organizations all over the world turned the common gaming PC (or workstation PC) into pure gold which can be sold for a high price.

Every day, there's some new shortage caused by some massive new tech """"discovery"""" (just another grift waiting to burst like everything else in this bubble). AI, crypto, chips, Sora2, whatever the fuck. And businesses rush to buy GPUs, Ram, CPUs, etc in bulk from companies who abandoned their loyal gamer and creator bases, while leaving us with 400% markup scraps that might not have all the advertised ROPs, enough VRAM or even a functional power connector.

Console gamers, as crazy as it sounds, really don't have to deal with being in competition with other multi billion dollar corporations overvaluing and then buying up all their hardware. OpenAI isn't going to buy up 12000 PS5s just to use their memory. People see these as gaming machines and the people who buy them are likely gamers. No miners, no AI "art" generators, no LLM losers. This combined with subsidization, very large used markets, and connections among companies like Sony and Nintendo mean they get somewhat reasonable prices. They only have to worry about the dumbass scalpers, who are honestly a significantly less ridiculous problem because they're just average middle class dudes trying to strike it rich, instead of technocrats and tech bro trust fund babies.

I'm a PC gamer, so maybe this is just me seeing the grass as greener on the other side. But other gamers have it so easy since their platforms are not as directly affected by all this new tech-grift bullshit that's been popping up for the past 8 years.
 
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You're right. PC gaming is a lot more expensive than it used to be.

I said this in another thread, where in 2017 the 1080ti launched for £699. The 5090 launched this year for £2K. Even adjusting for inflation, that is a massive jump.

Wonder what the 6000 series will launch at?

You can however build a decent mid range for under £1500, but there was a time not so long ago when that money got you a top of the line rig.
 
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Well, with consoles we now have the first generation where the hardware actually gets more expensive instead of cheaper. And with PCs you also have to consider: no paywall for online play or cloud saves, cheaper games, free choice of input devices, and much more. Consoles are basically 'take it or leave it,' while PCs are 'everything's possible, nothing's mandatory.'
 
Choppy/glitchy graphics and then having to tinker for ages to get the highest fps vs smoothness. Then the constant upgrades to eek that extra bit of performance out.

Sorry - that's the BEST bit!

Hmmm - probably having to sit at my desk vs console gaming on the couch.
 
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Consoles use the same technology which has the same shortage problems, but mitigated by volume.
It was nearly impossible to find a PS5 in a shop for 2 years in my country, same period as the crypto bubble which made graphic card prices jump like crazy.
 
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The things you can do with a PC far outmatches a console, and indeed that is not always for the better given your examples. Yet I would always prioritize my PC over my console(s) when it comes to purchases and usage.
 
The neckbeard image...

SEGtJBmVvPdBG_mfuwi0U7bQ1c_RvIxlI1uOZj4FPmg.jpg
 
Nobody is buying gaming hardware for AI shit . OpenAI might not be buying 12000 PS5s, but they aren't buying 12000 5090s either.

PC hardware is getting more expensive because there's less of it being made. Manufacturers have a clear incentive to use their production capacity for specialized AI chips instead. Consoles will be affected by this as well. Next gen hardware is going to cost an arm and a leg.
 
Consoles uses the same chip/DRAM/NAND wafers as everything else and pays the same market prices for them. If prices go up, the console vendor has to either subsidize them more or raise prices (which we've seen happen). The cost of the RAM and NAND in a PS5 has increased by about ~$100 since they last raised the US price in August for instance, so either Sony accounts for that in their NPV subsidization model (raising prices on games/subs/etc) or they'll have to raise their prices too eventually.
 
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LazyParrot said:
Consoles will be affected by this as well. Next gen hardware is going to cost an arm and a leg.
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Xyphie said:
Consoles uses the same chip/DRAM/NAND wafers as everything else and pays the same market prices for them. If prices go up, the console vendor has to either subsidize them more or raise prices (which we've seen happen). The cost of the RAM and NAND in a PS5 has increased by about ~$100 since they last raised the US price in August for instance, so either Sony accounts for that in their NPV subsidization model (raising prices on games/subs/etc) or they'll have to raise their prices too eventually.
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True, but that's covered by a point I made in my previous post. Sony and Nintendo will subsidize the cost somewhat because they'll be able to more effectively barter and eat costs that will be recouped by their ecosystem. (MTX, online subs, all that other BS) They're kind of the dam that keeps the prices of PS5s and Switch 2's from skyrocketing to 1500 and 1200, even if the products in that ecosystem end up costing significantly more as a result

We PC gamers have to get those components straight from the source. And they don't care that we're just consumers, they charge whatever the fuck they feel like.
 
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Yeah PC gaming is asinine at this point. Plus the real lack of optimization. I don't have a top of the line rig(7000/4090), but it's pretty good still and so many games release in a state that is so unstable. Stuttering, tearing, bad frame pacing, etc. It costs more than ever and performance is worst than ever.
 
Yeah pretty shitty to be honest, diminishing returns, only the top top end rigs play anything at the best quality.
Consoles also a mess games releasing buggy unfinished and barely running at resolutions from 2008 upscaled out the ass.
 
Cakeboxer said:
Well, with consoles we now have the first generation where the hardware actually gets more expensive instead of cheaper.
Click to expand...

Which is crazy. Consoles used to come down in price. Same as any old tech.

Now we're in a fucked up time line where tech increases in price as it gets more outdated.

Unfortunately, this is probably now the new norm.
 
JohnnyFootball said:
The constant redirecting of resources to drive other markets, leading to ridiculously higher prices and lack of availability.


Jesus will it ever fucking end?
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IDKFA said:
Which is crazy. Consoles used to come down in price. Same as any old tech.

Now we're in a fucked up time line where tech increases in price as it gets more outdated.

Unfortunately, this is probably now the new norm.
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I truly miss when computers were just a thing for nerds and enthusiasts instead of turning into coveted 21st century gold that every company wants so that they can help smegma mcgoonface generate his septuple tittied AI girlfriend
 
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64gigabyteram said:
The fact that PCs and PC components, are now seen as more than just vehicles for entertainment and creativity. They, especially their components and power, are now being viewed as investments.

Thanks to AI, crypto, and all that other tech-bro Web3 grifting shit, components like ram and GPUs which were simply once seen as products for gamers and creators like me and you, components that were exclusively for us to play games like Crysis and GTA5 at high framerates (or do some quick and easy blender renders), are now being scalped and overpriced in low supply. Corporations and organizations all over the world turned the common gaming PC (or workstation PC) into pure gold which can be sold for a high price.

Every day, there's some new shortage caused by some massive new tech """"discovery"""" (just another grift waiting to burst like everything else in this bubble). AI, crypto, chips, Sora2, whatever the fuck. And businesses rush to buy GPUs, Ram, CPUs, etc in bulk from companies who abandoned their loyal gamer and creator bases, while leaving us with 400% markup scraps that might not have all the advertised ROPs, enough VRAM or even a functional power connector.

Console gamers, as crazy as it sounds, really don't have to deal with being in competition with other multi billion dollar corporations overvaluing and then buying up all their hardware. OpenAI isn't going to buy up 12000 PS5s just to use their memory. People see these as gaming machines and the people who buy them are likely gamers. No miners, no AI "art" generators, no LLM losers. This combined with subsidization, very large used markets, and connections among companies like Sony and Nintendo mean they get somewhat reasonable prices. They only have to worry about the dumbass scalpers, who are honestly a significantly less ridiculous problem because they're just average middle class dudes trying to strike it rich, instead of technocrats and tech bro trust fund babies.

I'm a PC gamer, so maybe this is just me seeing the grass as greener on the other side. But other gamers have it so easy since their platforms are not as directly affected by all this new tech-grift bullshit that's been popping up for the past 8 years.
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That's why i got both type, switch ps5 and pc. I think the easy to access and somehow if i want to more control i will move to pc again. Depend on the needs.
 
Excellent post.

It's one of the reasons why it's disheartening to see consoles chase after what PC is. They're unintentionally morphing into a platform of instability and constant tinkering; the very antithesis of console gaming. I hope I'm wrong, but I think the more consoles become like PC, the more consoles lose what actually makes them better than PC's i.e., no tinkering required.

Additionally, some PC makers are becoming more and more trash. There's a very interesting conversation around Lenovo right now that exposes how the PC market can be poisoned by garbage-tier companies that actively engage in planned obsolescence.
 
Although a PC is not as good right now for modern games as it used to be, there are more things to enjoy on it.

- Emulation on PC has evolved and improved a lot the last 10 years. Even for systems that had bad emulation for the longest time such as N64, Atari Jaguar and Saturn. Even the og XBOX is getting decent now. And yes, i know emulation on consoles also exists but there is no comparison when it comes to accuracy, performance and availability of games. Accuracy on many PC emulators is on par with FPGA devices or better and how many games of each console are available on official services? About 10% of the whole library at best? Also you get all the systems on a single PC. You can't emulate Nintendo games on a PS5, for instance.

And let's not even talk about input lag....

- The decompilation community is getting bigger and bigger and more "remasters" of old games appear like every week. And pretty much all of them range from great to amazing.

- Modding is so good now, it's worth the extra price of a PC alone. You get stuff that feel like the best potential official remasters would. I enjoyed stuff like the RE4 HD project, Silent Hill 2 Definitive edition and GTA4 FusionFix more than any other modern game i tried during that time.

- There are some other cool things you can only experience on PC. Like playing classic FPS games on source ports such as DOOM, Quake, Quake 2, etc, at 240hz+ monitors at 240+ fps with zero input lag. These feel amazing. But playing the official ports of such games on consoles feels like a huge step back. I still remember the horror of playing classic DOOM on Switch because of the terrible input lag. Literally unplayable for me after playing on PC for so long. Heck, even Mario Kart 8 had more input lag on Switch than playing the game on PC Yuzu emulator.

- On PC, basically every PC port from every single previous generation is like an unofficial remaster. You can play most of them at higher resolutions/frame rates and for the one stubborn game that you can't, there's bound to be a mod somewhere that fixes it.


Basically, a PC gives you access to the best possible backwards compatibility and previous gen game experiences. I personally spend more than 80% of my gaming time with all the above. So for me, having a bit worse experience with some modern games and having to pay a premium is worth it because i gain all those things i mentioned. And i mean, i can still play modern games on it and they are often still better than the console versions, not all ports are bad.
 
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Back in mid 90s u bought 1k usd pc only for it to be irrelevant year or at max 2 years later, back then we had crazy hardware progress on a yearly basis.
Now u get rtx 3060, 32gigs of ram together with midrange zen3 (5000 series) cpu like r5 5600x which u could get for well under 1k total back in early 2021- u will be fine till crossgen ends aka around 2030.

Here how those games gonna look and run:

Those are specs above upcoming gabecube btw =D

Now quick comparision on how topend pc (1,5k usd+ adjusted for inflation for cpu alone)ran first doom at launch:


U entitled young bucks have no idea how tuff it was back in early pc days, common practice was running games in small window at half/third or sometimes even quarter resolution of ur monitor just so u could achieve semi stable 20fps on low settings :messenger_astonished:
 
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The volatility is a bitch, no doubt. Just means people have to try and be patient and pay attention to deals. Consoles are obviously not immune to this as console gaming prices reflect.

Ceallach said:
Yeah PC gaming is asinine at this point. Plus the real lack of optimization. I don't have a top of the line rig(7000/4090), but it's pretty good still and so many games release in a state that is so unstable. Stuttering, tearing, bad frame pacing, etc. It costs more than ever and performance is worst than ever.
Click to expand...

Really? Not my experience generally. Some games are worse than others, but seems largely due to UE5 and it affects consoles as well.
 
PC gaming? Consoles are not safe from this trend. Well, today nVidia presents its results so this may be the day the bubble burst. Fasten your seatbelts…
 
Not knowing when it's best to pull the trigger and upgrade. Cash is burning a hole in my pockets but I'm trying to wait til March, make it a birthday gift to me & hopefully get something marginally better by then (nothing top of the line regardless of course). My core PC parts are 10-13 years old 🤷‍♂️
 
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Topher said:
The volatility is a bitch, no doubt. Just means people have to try and be patient and pay attention to deals. Consoles are obviously not immune to this as console gaming prices reflect.



Really? Not my experience generally. Some games are worse than others, but seems largely due to UE5 and it affects consoles as well.
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It always confuses me on these threads.... Either i'm extremely lucky or i don't know, but i don't experience all of that he is mentioning and i only have a 5070, compared to his 4090.
 
Cakeboxer said:
Well, with consoles we now have the first generation where the hardware actually gets more expensive instead of cheaper. And with PCs you also have to consider: no paywall for online play or cloud saves, cheaper games, free choice of input devices, and much more. Consoles are basically 'take it or leave it,' while PCs are 'everything's possible, nothing's mandatory.'
Click to expand...
More cheaters with free online, cheaper games sometimes, free choice of input just like many devs do for their games on consoles...

And I can't even believe you mentioned prices going up. That's hilarious.
 
DryvBy said:
More cheaters with free online, cheaper games sometimes, free choice of input just like many devs do for their games on consoles...

And I can't even believe you mentioned prices going up. That's hilarious.
Click to expand...
You also got cheaters on console with Cronus Zen, XIM Adapters, lag switch or modded Controllers.
Input DEVICES. You can use anything, any VR etc.
Better believe it.
 
The worst thing? Currently, it's Windows.
  • Incredibly bloated out of the box
  • Forced deprecation of perfectly fine older hardware through Win10 EOL + TPM reqs
  • Forced AI/Copilot everywhere
  • Recording everything you do (Windows "Recall")
  • Weird BIOS requirements to get certain games to run
As is evidenced by the clamor for SteamOS/Bazzite, PC gamers just want an OS to install and run games as best as the hardware can and not be pestered by the OS itself nor have to run special un-enshittification apps to kill the 537 unnecessary services.

Honorable mention to HW prices though. $700-800 used to let you put together a really solid mid-tier gaming PC (assuming you already had peripherals). Now it's barely enough for a mid-tier GPU. But console prices are also going to the moon next gen. The PlayStation 5 Professional is already $750, a price that would've been considered ludicrous for a console 10 years ago.
 
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Randall365 said:
Choppy/glitchy graphics and then having to tinker for ages to get the highest fps vs smoothness. Then the constant upgrades to eek that extra bit of performance out.

Sorry - that's the BEST bit!

Hmmm - probably having to sit at my desk vs console gaming on the couch.
Click to expand...
Boombox Shut Up GIF
 
phant0m said:
The worst thing? Currently, it's Windows.
  • Incredibly bloated out of the box
  • Forced deprecation of perfectly fine older hardware through Win10 EOL + TPM reqs
  • Forced AI/Copilot everywhere
  • Recording everything you do (Windows "Recall")
  • Weird BIOS requirements to get certain games to run
As is evidenced by the clamor for SteamOS/Bazzite, PC gamers just want an OS to install and run games as best as the hardware can and not be pestered by the OS itself nor have to run special un-enshittification apps to kill the 537 unnecessary services.

Honorable mention to HW prices though. $700-800 used to let you put together a really solid mid-tier gaming PC (assuming you already had peripherals). Now it's barely enough for a mid-tier GPU. But console prices are also going to the moon next gen. The PlayStation 5 Professional is already $750, a price that would've been considered ludicrous for a console 10 years ago.
Click to expand...

As a lifelong PC gamer, I agree with this 100%.
 
For me the biggest thing is the lack of physical games. Sometimes I look at my shelf and imagine how it would feel if all my games turned into digital licenses. Its like thousands of dollars in equity wiped out
 
corgiix3 said:
For me the biggest thing is the lack of physical games. Sometimes I look at my shelf and imagine how it would feel if all my games turned into digital licenses. Its like thousands of dollars in equity wiped out
Click to expand...
Physical is just a matter of time for consoles.
 
Ceallach said:
Yeah PC gaming is asinine at this point. Plus the real lack of optimization. I don't have a top of the line rig(7000/4090), but it's pretty good still and so many games release in a state that is so unstable. Stuttering, tearing, bad frame pacing, etc. It costs more than ever and performance is worst than ever.
Click to expand...
You skipped some of your meds.

Randall365 said:
Choppy/glitchy graphics and then having to tinker for ages to get the highest fps vs smoothness. Then the constant upgrades to eek that extra bit of performance out.

Sorry - that's the BEST bit!

Hmmm - probably having to sit at my desk vs console gaming on the couch.
Click to expand...
You skipped all your meds.

Truthtellers said:
The 'master race' fans with PC's weaker than a Series X/PS5
Click to expand...
Those really consider themselves "master race" or it's just console warriors labeling them??
 
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Ceallach said:
Yeah PC gaming is asinine at this point. Plus the real lack of optimization. I don't have a top of the line rig(7000/4090), but it's pretty good still and so many games release in a state that is so unstable. Stuttering, tearing, bad frame pacing, etc. It costs more than ever and performance is worst than ever.
Click to expand...
25119.jpg
 
Barrier to entry will always be the things that don't work properly or the amount of configuring occasionally required to make things as good as the hardware you've paid for.

I was thinking Steam should mandate (on their platform) new releases having a "Steam Deck" and "Steam Machine" configuration profiles for games that are verified pre-release. Cyberpunk has a "steam deck" graphics profile that auto selects and this kind of thing is perfect for bridging the gap between PC and console for those who need it. Don't take away the ability to customize, obviously…. Just start that group of users off on the right foot.
 
Cakeboxer said:
Physical is just a matter of time for consoles.
Click to expand...
I hope it keeps going. Apparently PS6 will still have it. But if I am ever forced into a digital only gaming future i will 90% of the time buy on sale. Key sites, Steam sales, you name it. $70 digital games to me is a joke.
 
LazyParrot said:
Nobody is buying gaming hardware for AI shit . OpenAI might not be buying 12000 PS5s, but they aren't buying 12000 5090s either.

PC hardware is getting more expensive because there's less of it being made. Manufacturers have a clear incentive to use their production capacity for specialized AI chips instead. Consoles will be affected by this as well. Next gen hardware is going to cost an arm and a leg.
Click to expand...
You're not seeing the big picture. Consumers are in competition with businesses for graphics hardware, but the companies we compete with aren't necessarily AI companies.

OpenAI isn't buying 5090's, but companies that barrel into wanting to use offline, open source LLM's are. If they can't get RTX Pro enterprise grade GPUs, or don't want to spend the money on them, they buy consumer grade hardware. It's not uncommon for a company worried about data security around models to have some 5090-powered PC's racked and running Llama-based RAG apps inside the firewall. They're also getting 5080/5090 PC's to use as AI development workstations.
 
phant0m said:
The worst thing? Currently, it's Windows.
  • Incredibly bloated out of the box
  • Forced deprecation of perfectly fine older hardware through Win10 EOL + TPM reqs
  • Forced AI/Copilot everywhere
  • Recording everything you do (Windows "Recall")
  • Weird BIOS requirements to get certain games to run
As is evidenced by the clamor for SteamOS/Bazzite, PC gamers just want an OS to install and run games as best as the hardware can and not be pestered by the OS itself nor have to run special un-enshittification apps to kill the 537 unnecessary services.

Honorable mention to HW prices though. $700-800 used to let you put together a really solid mid-tier gaming PC (assuming you already had peripherals). Now it's barely enough for a mid-tier GPU. But console prices are also going to the moon next gen. The PlayStation 5 Professional is already $750, a price that would've been considered ludicrous for a console 10 years ago.
Click to expand...
DaleinCalgary said:
It's Windows
Click to expand...

This shit again?? On Windows almost everything just works and works better. Linux has a little better performance on some games and that is it.
 
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