Toons
Member
Ted cruz never fails to make an embarrassment of himself
There is no Epstein Client List
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Ted cruz never fails to make an embarrassment of himself
Toons
Member
The only people that could be claiming that extrajudicial killing of a guy without a trial is "justice" can't claim to seek justice at all. Theres no question whos being denied justice in such a statue.
Justice outside of a court, or without the decision of a committee, isnt true justice. Its vigilantism at best, and in Floyd's case, murder.
Or it took four guys to restrain a drugged up noncompliant man with a history of violence who died DURING (not necessarily because of) use of a technique taught to the cops as part of their department policy. Those guys were punished for enforcing the system on a guy that happened to be of a specific color to engender the outrage.
StreetsofBeige
Member
Havent kept up.
So still no master list of names?
So still no master list of names?
Punished Miku
Gaslighter Pro: 16.7 Fireflops
Nope. A democrat won a spot recently and they've been delaying her certification because it would mean the house can vote on it and pass it. Marjorie Taylor Green publicly has been saying she's not suicidal and intends to vote to release it. They're still blocking it.
They're going to blow up the fucking servers that are holding these files before they release them at this rate.
Toons
Member
Youre still fighting this pointless battle in defense of a convicted murderer.
The drugged up guy is somehow stronger than 4 grown adult men but also died pretty much as soon as they restrain him?
Chauvin is a killer, and deliberately caused a man's death by compressing his neck for almost 9 minutes amidst exasperated claims of his victim being unable to breathe. Without a trial. Without a jury. Without a judgment. There is no other side to this discussion to be had, just denial of what we watched happen. Even if Floyd didn't die, hed STILL be guilty of attempted murder.
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Toons
Member
This is the most transparent and in your face cover up in US history. How these people still have ardent supporters should speak to how far we've fallen
I'm not arguing "truth" one way or the other, just that I could make a statue showing the event, PEOPLE with biases either way can use it, and depending on how I tweak the statue, I can also bias observers. Showing Trump and Epstein skipping hand in hand implies a level of comradery that may have existed between them at one point, but certainly doesn't accurately represent how we THINK their relationship was for the last couple of DECADES. So just like a statue of terrified cops kneeling on the bull neck of a ferocious giant man, or menacing men crushing an exhausted man gasping for breath, the statue triggers an emotional response based on your biases, in ways photos on a piece of paper does not, because we have been conditioned to give weight to statues through millennia of their use (aka they are an effective propaganda tool).
Baemono
Member
Toons
Member
You mean watching a guy get killed triggers an emotional response? O sure hope it still does.
People also tend to have emotional responses when someone is closely connected and friends with a pedophile. Again. Something im all for.
We know epstein was a pedophile. We know he and Trump were friends. We know that Trump has lied to us all several times on the matter of releasing any and all information the government possesses on epsteins clients; and we know he has pressured multiple constituents to do so in his stead which hated directly to his parry blocking resolutions to release these files. These are not opinions this is stuff we've wTxye happen in real time.
At what point is an emotional response maybe warranted?
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adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Not on Kash Patel's watch, no.
StreetsofBeige
Member
Not surprised. I watched some of the Joe Rogan video on YT with him on it. Guy sounds like a worm thinking he's the greatest guy ever cracking down on every conspiracy ever.
Hot5pur
Member
I dunno. For all you MAGA folks, what do you find appealing about Trump and his handling of the Epstein files? Like deep down you know he lied about the election, he lied about Ukraine, he is lying about Epstein...guy lies almost as readily as he breathes. Why do you want to be a part of his fanclub? Is watching "the libs" suffer that satisfying? Is seeing your country erode just so "your side" wins worth it that much? Maybe deep down you just want everyone else to suffer, like those girls who were passed around on Epstein island.
I don't get it man. Why do people feel the need to follow, to not think for themselves, to be beholden to some powerful figure be it a demagogue or a God. Does it give you comfort? Safety? A sense of belonging? Does it make up for not having a loving family? Maybe it's a way to be angry, to see others hurt and feel better. Maybe watching someone with a lot of power hurt others make you feel powerful because you support him. I just don't get the psyche, almost like it's completely devoid of any empathy or a shared sense of human compassion.
Strange times we live in.
I don't get it man. Why do people feel the need to follow, to not think for themselves, to be beholden to some powerful figure be it a demagogue or a God. Does it give you comfort? Safety? A sense of belonging? Does it make up for not having a loving family? Maybe it's a way to be angry, to see others hurt and feel better. Maybe watching someone with a lot of power hurt others make you feel powerful because you support him. I just don't get the psyche, almost like it's completely devoid of any empathy or a shared sense of human compassion.
Strange times we live in.
StreetsofBeige
Member
How are Dems better than Trump? Biden is a zombie, Harris is a cackling witch with no substance and the only things they seemed to care about are abortion rights and transgender rules.
Beating Trump is actually easy in theory, but hard to pull off. He's a very business focused guy where a lot of his hot topics involve money, jobs, economy and immigration laws (which also relates to giving them social assistance which is more about money off taxpayers backs).
All anyone has to do is talk boring stuff like jobs and economy and come up with better ideas than his supposedly iron fisted ideas. Problem is nobody on the left even tries or can come up with better ones.
Trump actually has a disadvantage right away with voters because a lot of people vote based on likeability, not policies. And Trump is a predicatbly abrasive guy who will turn off lots of people right away. And friendly Dems with that advantage still couldnt beat him.
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Vestal
Junior Member
Honestly, I don't understand how anyone could listen to him talk yesterday in front of our generals and not want to crawl up in a ball in shame. That was the cringiest of cringe. Along with it being dangerous AF.
Not going to sit here and try to define the current Trump supporter. That is a 3rd rail I am not even looking at.
But no, beating Trump is not easy at all given the political climate. He has the entire party structure, the executive and congress all at his command. Meanwhile the Dems have no clear leader or message to stand on.
edit: There was no beating Trump after Butler last year.
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Baemono
Member
From a pure law perspective (not politics), he kinda crosses the line on presidential powers a bit too many times. I mean most of the headlines I'm reading nowadays is like "X court rules Trump cannot do this or that" and I don't recall seeing that 2-3 times per week for other presidents.
And he's really getting serious with the whole 3rd term "joke".
I don't recall Obama insisting several times on a 3rd term for eg. Nor Bush to be fair.
That's because Trump sees the law differently than most. To him the laws represent the MINIMUM he is allowed to do, so he pushes, knowing the courts (lawsuits and rulings are second nature for him) will correct any oversight.
What he sees to rarely do is use a lawyer to determine legality FIRST, probably because he knows a government lawyer will almost always just say no rather than try to work the system.
It's just like his negotiating tactic of spouting off some extreme demand or position, knowing full well his actual goal is somewhere in the middle.
Trump does this time and time again because it works for him in business and somewhat in politics. The media falls for it over and over because they hate him and that's not how a politician is "supposed" to operate.
Baemono
Member
The issue with this whole concept is that other people in other countries did the same (and I am not exagerating). Putin did it over the time in Russia, Orban as well in Hungary, Erdogan did it in Turkey, and some tried to stop them but for the sake of democracy (as these people were elected), they were allowed to continue. And Trump is following the same path, which is clear to people from outside who were already through the same kind of situation in their own country, but it is new for people who only know democracy.
And again, I'm not talking about politics. The Conservatives/Republicans (as a party) worked hand in hand with the American people for centuries. Trump will come and go.
12Goblins
Banned
This guy has it figured out. Tell us how we faked the moon landing next
There is a good documentary on this
I think we did go to the moon, but that they ALSO filmed footage on earth "just in case" and some of that is what we are seeing because their ability to record and transmit wasn't as good as advertised.
Then again, seeing all the BILLIONS and BILLIONS siphoned off other "national level" projects like Covid, war in Ukraine, etc, stands to reason that the moon race was equally corrupt and as much a PR war with the Soviet Union as a legit engineering obstacle, so entirely possible a chunk of what "we know" from that era was manufactured. Clearly we have (had) the capability to send stuff to the moon, just seems odd we only ever had 12 men over 6 missions in a 3 year span to ever do it, then never again.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Looks like that Trump / Epstein statue is back.
lughnasadh123
Member
You can't genuinely see a difference between any of those people and Trump? This isn't even a difference between parties as I can at least believe some on both sides truly govern with a set of conviction and principles. For Trump it's a means to an end. For him, the Constitution is an annoying speed bump for his agenda. He's quite possible the most inept, intellectually deficient corrupt turd to ever have been elected to damn near anything. "they're all the same" is just cope for knowing there IS no justifying him.
StreetsofBeige
Member
True.
It seems he signs a new EO every week with his giant sharpie. Who knows what is legal and isnt. There is no way for any normies to know what he signs is actually legal or not unless a lawyer or media tells the public what he signed is ok or not.
As for Trump going 3rd term, I think he's just trolling for laughs. Just like his pic of Biden with an auto-pen. I thought it was an AI joke video. But it seems true. The two pics he picked for himself are mean looking The Apprentice kinds of looks vs a more cheerful politician look.
Trump can be an unlikeable abrasive guy. And in theory that should turn off tons of people. But I think it's got to a point in US politics that people hate the media and left. So they'll trust Trump and enjoy his jabs and jokes when he does rallies. Got to admit, people might not like his policies, but his rallies are charismatic, not boring, and the way he can joke around with people makes him stand out.
Similar to the late Rob Ford. Toronto mayor. Big sweaty fat guy. Been caught being a drunk and doing drugs. People loved him because they liked his normal guy look, the way he talked and he did some great policies. But at face value and his personal life issues, he shouldnt be a mayor. But people looked past that stuff and picked him over traditional suit and tie guys and prim and proper women in politics.
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poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
I can't even figure out what else he would have said. Politicians?
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
The usual distractions Trump and co always throw at us
Punished Miku
Gaslighter Pro: 16.7 Fireflops
Another week delay. Again.
BlackTron
Member
Maximum perception
Sardaukarama
Member
Hot5pur
Member
I don't think it's too difficult to put 2 and 2 together at this point.
- Trump campaigns on releasing the list, presumably thinking it wasn't much of an issue as his ties to Epstein are already known (they were close friends, there is no denying that at this point either). Likely he didn't participate in any problematic events, or at least not that he perceived.
- At some point his handlers (wealthy donors or people with leverage) tell him releasing the list will be a problem, so he backtracks. He gained the nickname TACO for a reason - there are background interests that keep him in line
- he is now openly floundering calling it a hoax, because he hadn't expected to get caught with his pants down, effectively making him a pedophile protector
- a lot of very powerful people, Thiel, Musk, Prince Andrew, etc were named in the files, we just don't know the extent of their involvement, but likely at least a few of them openly knew of the sex ring and took advantage of it.
- Given that Thiel is in the list, Project 2025, lil' Smokey-Eyes Vance being a product and plant from Thiel's efforts, I suspect they are worried that their entire plan will unravel if they can tie powerful Epstein associates who did bad things to project 2025, part of which is to have Vance take over (though perhaps not officially) or have major influence as it's pretty clear Donald is suffering from dementia and a bunch of other health issues
Like project 2025 isn't some conspiracy, it's happening right before everyone's eyes, they told us exactly what they wanted to do, Trump even sees it as problematic as he tried to distance himself from it. They rely on tribalism, religion, Fox News to keep the base in line while actively preparing to harm most of the population in order to gain more power/wealth. Elon literally bought Trump the election and gutted the government which they are needing to rehire now. That was just a little taste of what's to come of people don't clue in.
But see the Epstein thing is a snag in the plan. It could potentially cause the house of cards to collapse because pedophelia is a hard sell even for Republicans, though perhaps not for Ted Cruz.
- Trump campaigns on releasing the list, presumably thinking it wasn't much of an issue as his ties to Epstein are already known (they were close friends, there is no denying that at this point either). Likely he didn't participate in any problematic events, or at least not that he perceived.
- At some point his handlers (wealthy donors or people with leverage) tell him releasing the list will be a problem, so he backtracks. He gained the nickname TACO for a reason - there are background interests that keep him in line
- he is now openly floundering calling it a hoax, because he hadn't expected to get caught with his pants down, effectively making him a pedophile protector
- a lot of very powerful people, Thiel, Musk, Prince Andrew, etc were named in the files, we just don't know the extent of their involvement, but likely at least a few of them openly knew of the sex ring and took advantage of it.
- Given that Thiel is in the list, Project 2025, lil' Smokey-Eyes Vance being a product and plant from Thiel's efforts, I suspect they are worried that their entire plan will unravel if they can tie powerful Epstein associates who did bad things to project 2025, part of which is to have Vance take over (though perhaps not officially) or have major influence as it's pretty clear Donald is suffering from dementia and a bunch of other health issues
Like project 2025 isn't some conspiracy, it's happening right before everyone's eyes, they told us exactly what they wanted to do, Trump even sees it as problematic as he tried to distance himself from it. They rely on tribalism, religion, Fox News to keep the base in line while actively preparing to harm most of the population in order to gain more power/wealth. Elon literally bought Trump the election and gutted the government which they are needing to rehire now. That was just a little taste of what's to come of people don't clue in.
But see the Epstein thing is a snag in the plan. It could potentially cause the house of cards to collapse because pedophelia is a hard sell even for Republicans, though perhaps not for Ted Cruz.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Not a good look with this already ongoing.
www.syracuse.com
Former Trump spiritual advisor, megachurch pastor pleads guilty to child sex abuse
Robert Morris, who led one of America's largest churches, admitted to five counts of lewd acts with a child committed between 1982-1986.
www.syracuse.com
12Goblins
Banned
Supreme Court rejects appeal from Ghislaine Maxwell, imprisoned former girlfriend of Jeffrey Epstein
The Supreme Court has rejected an appeal from Ghislaine Maxwell, the imprisoned ex-girlfriend of Jeffrey Epstein.
apnews.com
ResurrectedContrarian
Suffers with mild autism
this is frankly "Trump was installed by Russia" all over again (singling you out, but it's most of the thread now to be honest) and extremely embarrassing conspiracy thinking
We went through a Russia hoax for years in his first team simply because the notion of someone of his kind winning was psychologically devastating for the progressive side, and some secret puppetmaster behind the scenes absolutely had to be invented as an emotional crutch to explain how it could have happened that history didn't go as planned.
Now, with another much more significant win including popular victory, the exact same impulses are causing something that used to a right-wing fantasy (secret pedophiles running the government; a low iq conspiracy all along) to be embraced by the other side to the point of hysteria, borderline a Q-Anon on the left coming into being.
Bombshells like you actually seem to believe in -- ie., not just that Trump was as generally gross and womanizing as any figure like Bill Clinton, which we already know, but that he was actually buying underage girls -- obviously do not exist, or they would have been exposed by other prior administration which had every reason to do so. There is bound to be a lot of "scummy people hanging around other scummy people" that implicates probably half of Washington (not in pedophilia but in having terrible associations and judgment) and there are surely pressures to avoid causing scandal, and all of it is rather stupid political maneuvering by the administration.
But to believe that there is a smoking gun here is to sound exactly like a mix of Q-Anon and "Trump is a secret Russian asset" circa 2017. And when you throw in things like project 2025 is taking over it sounds even more like a bad conspiracy brain that has found a weird need to see a vast hidden series of coverups instead of just seeing that the popular sentiment and political movement did, in fact, turn towards the right in 2024, and there isn't any secret to be uncovered that will reverse that.
12Goblins
Banned
I stopped reading at the first line. Noone believes Trump was installed by Russia or was that ever the allegations.
Scary_Larry
Member
It's simple, ICE in blue cities where there are no "war zones", blocking a newly elected democrat confirmation that would be the final vote to release the files. So, what do they do? Shut down the government. Attempting to take the attention away from President Pedophile.
The GOP is ran by members who encourage sex trafficking of minors. Patel says that there are no files. They're all liars and that's all they do. Thing is, they're not good liars. They're covering this up and creating distractions because when the files do leak or come out, they're toast. People are finally waking up to the values of these worms. It's to protect themselves and not listen to the victims.
I also notice the MAGA's on this forum are being really quiet in this thread. Funny how that works.
Release the files. Unredacted.
The GOP is ran by members who encourage sex trafficking of minors. Patel says that there are no files. They're all liars and that's all they do. Thing is, they're not good liars. They're covering this up and creating distractions because when the files do leak or come out, they're toast. People are finally waking up to the values of these worms. It's to protect themselves and not listen to the victims.
I also notice the MAGA's on this forum are being really quiet in this thread. Funny how that works.
Release the files. Unredacted.
ResurrectedContrarian
Suffers with mild autism
It's exactly what was believed, just stated in its barest form. The widespread, deeply irrational panic that gripped the entire left/progressive side was a fantasy conspiracy that Trump was in power because of Russia, and it was indeed as unhinged as believing that Putin held direct power over Trump by way of secret sex tapes and so forth.
Very embarrassing time period. As is the one seen right now, in this thread... exactly as embarrassing. History is repeating itself. New secret sex tapes, this time not held by Russia but in an Epstein vault -- but the psychological need and overall conspiracy arc is the same.
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12Goblins
Banned
bro if ur gonna bring up irrelevant shit in an Epstein thread, at least make an effort to get the basic facts straight
People alleged that either 1) Russia interfered in the US election and colluded with Trump to help him win the election so they could both benefit and/or 2) Putin had compromising information on Trump which would put US national security at risk
"Trump was installed by Russia" was either poorly worded and not what you actually meant, or just a gross mischaracterization and reflects a misunderstanding of what actually took place
People alleged that either 1) Russia interfered in the US election and colluded with Trump to help him win the election so they could both benefit and/or 2) Putin had compromising information on Trump which would put US national security at risk
"Trump was installed by Russia" was either poorly worded and not what you actually meant, or just a gross mischaracterization and reflects a misunderstanding of what actually took place
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ResurrectedContrarian
Suffers with mild autism
....on a thread page with discussions about project 2025, fox news brainwashing dumb masses, God/religion and Trump psychologized as some kind of related belief system, dark money from Soros (oops, I mean from Thiel, the left-winger's version of Soros conspiracy) creating the VP, and so on
Yeah, that's literally the kind of thread we're in.
It's correct. Do you want receipts?
New York Times opinion pages, 2017 - op-eds printed here are extremely widely circulated, and probably no source can better record what the zeitgiest and dominant conversation on the left was in any particular snapshot in time
Or Jonathan Chait, who writes for many of the most circulated papers among the same left crowd, including the Atlantic, also in 2017:
... he frames all of it as a form of installation. Do you want me to show how widely shared and cited that was? Or the other op-eds and articles that were extremely mainstream?
I don't really need to go on, because it was all over major left-aligned publications (tv shows like Maddow almost every night, etc etc). I'm sorry that the reality of the Russian hysteria is a dark history... it is one of the most discrediting moments for progressivism in centuries, because it revealed that conspiracy thinking was, in fact, just as fully embraced by mainstream left as it is by the darkest QAnon corners of the right.
Maybe don't repeat it again.
12Goblins
Banned
But nothing about qanon is true or based in reality while it's been proven that Russia interfered in the US election with the intention to help Trump. If you think these are remotely analogous you are deluding yourself
Presenting a NYT op Ed that says Trump won't insult Putin because "he may as well been installed by Russia" as your receipt is hilarious btw
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Supreme Court rejects appeal from Ghislaine Maxwell, imprisoned former girlfriend of Jeffrey Epstein
The Supreme Court has rejected an appeal from Ghislaine Maxwell, the imprisoned ex-girlfriend of Jeffrey Epstein.
Holy shit, I'm legitimately surprised at this decision from this current SC.
FalconPunch
Member
Why? The current thinking is that Trump wants her to have him as her only option of salvation. This way he can coerce a testimony from her in exchange for saying Trump was never involved. That's why she got moved to a prison with reduced security. If the supreme court came to her aid, then she could just ignore him and say nothing.
Anyway, at the end of the day, i know for sure that Trump is 100% involved. They don't need to release the files for me to know that…. His behaviour isn't one of an innocent person. When you look at the company he keeps, they're all shady individuals with questionable behaviour. Your friends are a clear reflection of you.
Idleyes
Gold Member
I'll admit it up front, I've got a bias against all politicians. Having been in charge of people myself, I know firsthand you can't please everyone, and the bigger the group, the harder it gets. Scale that up to thousands or millions of constituents, and it's clear no politician truly has our best interests at heart. So I tend to just sit back, let folks cook, and watch. But I will say this much out the gate: Trump is not someone worthy of anyone's trust.
Vestal
Junior Member
this shouldn't be that hard.
"Would you pardon the child sex trafficker?" Reply .0001 seconds later... "NO"
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
12Goblins
Banned
Wild shit.
Scary_Larry
Member
Edit: Wrong thread
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BlackTron
Member
"Radical leftists" are a pain in my ass, but the worst thing they did was enable the "radical right" to clamp down with authoritarianism.
I'll suffer through woke culture over the erosion of the social contract. Really, the radicals on both sides are playing into a plan to use their fighting as a catalyst to take everyone's rights away. The people with big curling mustaches behind the plan, who wrote Project 2025, well you know who they are.
"The left" would not need such extreme measures to get votes if "the right" were not trying to destroy the legal framework of the country. "The right" would not need such extreme measures if "the left" would enforce laws. Between the two, I would prefer that the rule of law remain intact and enforcement improve. The Constitution is fine the way it is, we just need to use it, not interpret it and overturn precedents in the current powers' image. Example, birthright citizenship is protected in the Constitution. Now, what law must be followed are political opinions instead of legal ones. If someone wants to change that, they can use the same pathway to editing the Constitution that is already there, not simply Declare it be so.
Scary_Larry
Member
As much as I dislike both parties, this isn't a left vs. right issue. This is about the sex trafficking of minors and this shouldn't have anything to do with party lines.
Thing is, President Pedophile and his minions are blocking the confirmation of a newly elected Democrat that would be the final vote of getting the files released. That's an absolute fact.
Now, you have President Pedophile creating distractions by going into blue cities with the military and a very violent secret police in ICE. Real life gestapo stuff. Not to mention shutting down the government and starting a useless war with Venezuela.
Them blocking these files is resulting in a constitutional crisis, massive job losses, injury and death. The tax payers are footing the bill for all of this as well.
MAGA is showing everyone, in real-time, that it's a death cult that supports and condones child sex trafficking. It's plain as day to see.
Just wait until he pardons Maxwell and Diddy. MAGA must be so proud. May they wear this horrendous stain the rest of their lives.
Thing is, President Pedophile and his minions are blocking the confirmation of a newly elected Democrat that would be the final vote of getting the files released. That's an absolute fact.
Now, you have President Pedophile creating distractions by going into blue cities with the military and a very violent secret police in ICE. Real life gestapo stuff. Not to mention shutting down the government and starting a useless war with Venezuela.
Them blocking these files is resulting in a constitutional crisis, massive job losses, injury and death. The tax payers are footing the bill for all of this as well.
MAGA is showing everyone, in real-time, that it's a death cult that supports and condones child sex trafficking. It's plain as day to see.
Just wait until he pardons Maxwell and Diddy. MAGA must be so proud. May they wear this horrendous stain the rest of their lives.
ResurrectedContrarian
Suffers with mild autism
It's exactly proof of what I was alleging, in fact.
I honestly don't know if you have the mental capacity for tracing an argument through several hoops at once, and simply reply to the last thing said like an LLM struggling for context, so I'll try to simplify:
I said that the driving, extremely widespread conspiracy theory on the progressive side about Trump/Russia back in 2017 was essentially that Trump was installed as a Russian asset and controlled by them via some compromising blackmail (the "tape"). The second part of my argument is that this kind of wild conspiracy thinking is objectively insane, and psychologically disqualifying from participation in political life--and that it is exactly what we're seeing again now in the sudden obsessive theory that there is some smoking gun of Trump and pedophilia waiting to be uncovered, which will finally take him down just like that mythical secret sex tape was going to. And lastly, that this kind of thinking is exactly like QAnon. Unhinged conspiracy thinking is not isolated on one side of the aisle, and if anything has been much worse for the country on the progressive side due to always going much more mainstream (for example, people on major networks, like Rachel Maddow, falling fully for the most extreme delusions of it and broadcasting it every night, just as it graced pages of the most prestigious papers like NYT; whereas QAnon remained a fringe thing).
In that context, I quoted the NYT (and another source) because it is the most widely read source among left/progressives, and what you see in its pages is by far a better recording of mainstream progressive belief than anything else you can possibly find. And on those pages, the most illogical and magical-thinking versions of the Russian conspiracy were plainly printed, many times.
It illustrates that this was indeed what drove the Russian hysteria. And anecdotally, at least 80% of the progressive people in my orbit -- from extended family, neighbors, etc -- took the full belief during those years. Speak to any person over 50 in 2017 for that matter who votes democrat, and they'd tell you that Putin is controlling Trump like a puppet due to secret sex tapes, and that this is objectively true information about which they have absolutely zero doubt.
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