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Theresa May faces public backlash over hard Brexit, poll finds
- Thread starter Beefy
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Guerrillas in the Mist
Member
Yeah, 52% (not including those that didn't vote) isn't exactly a ringing endorsement of balls-to-the-walls hard Brexit.
Camper Van Beethoven
Banned
Polls don't mean anything when there's no credible opposition to the tories. They could run the country to the ground and still beat Labour in England and Wales.
jack_package_200
Banned
Thanks Jeremy. Sure he might have made the labour party into a joke but at least he is ideologically pure.
PJV3
Member
Opposition has to come from the people, Corbyn is useless but the public shouldn't just hand the tories a blank cheque, that's even worse.
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
"Brexit doesn't mean leaving the single market! What are you mad!"
"So we're leaving the single market because Brexit means Brexit..."
Meanwhile Corbyn is covering his balls in organic strawberry jam back in his garage.
"So we're leaving the single market because Brexit means Brexit..."
Meanwhile Corbyn is covering his balls in organic strawberry jam back in his garage.
andythinkpad
Member
She has pretty good support from the parliament.
Yep, the people have to stand up and step up to the Tory bullshit.
Almost as if people are realising they voted against their own self interest.
We're taking power back, and handing it to a government that wants to leave the ECHR, abolish as many workers rights as possible, shift to an American style health system to help out their mates in private healthcare, become a tax haven for wealthy corporations, and use EU nationals living in the UK as a bargaining chip.
There are benefits to leaving the EU, but the EU have done a great job of protecting Britian from the British government over the years. It's going to be bad for a lot of people.
Edit: and it was obvious from the start that the only kind of brexit possible was a hard brexit.
We're taking power back, and handing it to a government that wants to leave the ECHR, abolish as many workers rights as possible, shift to an American style health system to help out their mates in private healthcare, become a tax haven for wealthy corporations, and use EU nationals living in the UK as a bargaining chip.
There are benefits to leaving the EU, but the EU have done a great job of protecting Britian from the British government over the years. It's going to be bad for a lot of people.
Edit: and it was obvious from the start that the only kind of brexit possible was a hard brexit.
JoeyJungle
Banned
Man, there's really no good Brexit. A soft Brexit would just leave the UK under the same EU rules while sacrificing the large sway that they previously had over EU regulations. A hard Brexit is going to be economically disastrous and will only benefit snowflake bigots offended at hearing Polish accents or foreign languages.
David Cameron is no doubt going to go down as the worst PM since Neville Chamberlain. Can't imagine how the Queen must feel, knowing right at the end of her life the country's racing toward a brick wall.
David Cameron is no doubt going to go down as the worst PM since Neville Chamberlain. Can't imagine how the Queen must feel, knowing right at the end of her life the country's racing toward a brick wall.
axisofweevils
Holy crap! Today's real megaton is that more than two people can have the same first name.
Good. I've seen way too many "move on. we're all Brexiteers now" statements lately.
Wasn't there a report that the Queen was in favor?
It's shocking the amount of people who voted Brexit thinking a soft-Brexit, with any meaningful concessions was actually possible. Given our already sweetheart deal, anything further threatens the entire EU project.
Ironically, going by voter demographics, the people most likely to vote Brexit were the ones who needed the most protecting from our own government. The whole 'stick it to London' sentiment ignores the fact the average Londoner is much better able to insulate themselves from Brexit fallout.
Too many still want to leave. They however bought into the bullshit Farage etc. were saying about just getting all those sweet new treaties before they leave the EU so now they are viewing the Government as betraying what they voted for.
The Farage and co. chain of events was never going to happen. So at this point they should just spell it out and say You aren't getting jack shit from what those twats promised.
The Farage and co. chain of events was never going to happen. So at this point they should just spell it out and say You aren't getting jack shit from what those twats promised.
Corbyn is incompetent. Like seriously. He dragged his feet when it came to the remain campaign; he refused to make the argument that the U.K should remain because it's, I don't know, economic suicide. When it seems there will be no compromise and the U.K. Will be leaving the single market, he should have been singing to the rooftops that even prominent brexiters like Dam Hannondidn't want this. That the Norway model is a downgrade and even if that was happening which it ain't that the uk will pay more for less. He should be asking the people whether they think the party of austerity will make up for the shortfall in EU funding in places like Wales and Cornwall. He should be bashing Theresa May for cozying up to Trump and how it's important to be a part of a trading bloc to ensure the uk is not bullied by the US. That May Is adding layers upon on layers of bureaucracy by having to hire trade negotiators to ensure the uk gets a very shitty deal. Finally, the fact Boris voted against giving £350 million a week to the NGOs should be sung from the rooftops. It seems like he is intentionally missing so many open goals it's maddening.
LiveFromKyoto
Member
The poll was conducted with the help of Avaaz, the same Avaaz who are basically change.org and emailing me panic-laden leftist petitions every day?
Unless I'm missing something, their mailing list may not be comprehensive as far as the political spectrum goes.
Unless I'm missing something, their mailing list may not be comprehensive as far as the political spectrum goes.
Part of the history lesson is that the reason why the United Kingdom fell as a superpower was because it simply couldn't keep up with the economic powerhouses of the US and the Soviet Union, or now countries like China or even India soon enough. The UK has excellent living standards and technological prowess, but other countries have that, plus way more natural resources and far larger populations. Power became a numbers game, and the UK couldn't keep up.
For a realist, someone for whom notions of human brotherhood may have no sway, this is the case for the European Union. You can either be a part of one of the new superpowers, or you can be a vassal state. Donald Tusk made a very good argument there. Shall the UK be consigned to irrelevance or American peonage? Or shall the UK sit on the board of directors of a superpower. One of many, yes, but at least one among equals instead of a subordinate.
For a realist, someone for whom notions of human brotherhood may have no sway, this is the case for the European Union. You can either be a part of one of the new superpowers, or you can be a vassal state. Donald Tusk made a very good argument there. Shall the UK be consigned to irrelevance or American peonage? Or shall the UK sit on the board of directors of a superpower. One of many, yes, but at least one among equals instead of a subordinate.
Isn't the "special relationship" just code for having special rights to lick Uncle Sam's balls?
As such, I think the UK has made that decision long ago. If anything leaving the EU just makes the things clearer, especially now when the US has become a liability instead of a partner for Europe.
titiklabingapat
Member
Uh they made thier so they have to lie in it. Elections actually have consequences, the horror! I doubt the Euro overlords are willing to negotiate anyway. I know it sounds harsh but the 51% who voted for it basically ruined the lives of the other 49%. And they voted these clowns in. Again. Now you gotta wallow in the mud like the rest of us in the USA in the next rocky few years.
Chittagong
Gold Member
That is enouraging, however wouldn't pop the champagne British sparkling wine quite yet, as long as it's just the biggest pro-remain paper reporting.
Dash_Riprock
Member
This. Backlash means fuck-all when the main opposition is a man who somehow comes across as even stupider than the Tories.
Caipirinha
Member
Did it occur to you people that the mainstream media is dedicated to crushing Corbyn? A Tory government really doesn't bother outlets like The Guardian, but the very idea of turning the Labour Party back into an actual left wing party that isn't just a puppet for big business is absolutely unacceptable to them - and ever since his election they have been doing absolutely anything they can to destroy support in him.
When you say he comes across as useless, how else would he c one across in the rags that are dedicated to his demise? Do you really think they're going to cast him in anything other than the worst light possible?
Brexit happened precisely because there is no left wing alternative offering a solution to the plight of the stagnant worming and lower-middle classes of Britain, if you get rid of Corbyn and replace him with another neoliberal Blairite then you will find the country sliding even further to the far right.
Be my guest, I already left the country as a response to the last Tory victory, but you guys better wake the fuck up and stop playing into the hands of the banking elite and their media cronies or UKIP will be the least of your worries and you can look forward to a British Le Pen or worse.
Caipirinha
Member
How are the Democrats so powerless now?
Why are the SDP in Germany losing election after election?
Why are the Socialist Party in France about to be eviscerated?
Over the last 20 years the centre-left parties of the world gave up on opposing the current economic system and instead decided to embrace it, along with it's wealthy donors, and instead focus on "moderating" neoliberalism with this or that minor concession for the poor. By this point, they don't even bother to do that, they are literally carbon copies of the conservative opposition.
The result? No matter who wins which election, the wealth gap got bigger and bigger and the financial industry became less and less regulated and the global economy more and more volatile.
Now we face the terminal decline of that model of economics. The beginning of the end was 2008 and there has been no meaningful recovery since for the vast majority of the working class population of the developed world.
They're sick to death of the status quo and want change, but the left has been so completely annihilated by this coalition of the centre-right and centre-left that the only alternatives being offered are those on the far right: Trump, Le Pen, Brexit.
Which is why it is truly depressing to see people ITT still falling for that coalition's desperate attempts to cling onto the power they are now inevitably going to lose, by discrediting even the most minor shifts to the left (eg. Corbyn).
So long as the education middle classes who would traditionally have joined the march towards a new progressive society are as ideologically brain dead and completely delusional as they are now, there will be no meaningful left wing reaction to the collapse of neoliberalism and so absolutely no chance in fending off the advance of the far right.
This is where it gets difficult.
I dislike May.
I find the Brexit situation shit and disheartening.
I certainly don't want a Hard Brexit to WTO terms.
However...I appreciate the utterly screwed nature's of Mays position in that her negotiating stance is one of the she is willing to walk without the 'right' deal because literally that's least weak one right now due to the situation of the politicians own making.
She's fucked regardless.
I dislike May.
I find the Brexit situation shit and disheartening.
I certainly don't want a Hard Brexit to WTO terms.
However...I appreciate the utterly screwed nature's of Mays position in that her negotiating stance is one of the she is willing to walk without the 'right' deal because literally that's least weak one right now due to the situation of the politicians own making.
She's fucked regardless.
PipefishUK
Banned
I was under the impression that it couldn't be halted or extended one article 50 was triggered without agreement from the rest of the EU.
It's piss all good triggering it then going, 'nah, OK, we want this to stop now! Timeout, timeout, changed our minds, another 2 years please!' - when we get near the end and we don't like how it's looking.
Granted, some countries will be sympathetic and would know it's also in their interest (a bit) - but some won't give a shit and will think we deserve everything we get. Which we do.
It's piss all good triggering it then going, 'nah, OK, we want this to stop now! Timeout, timeout, changed our minds, another 2 years please!' - when we get near the end and we don't like how it's looking.
Granted, some countries will be sympathetic and would know it's also in their interest (a bit) - but some won't give a shit and will think we deserve everything we get. Which we do.
Bitch Pudding
Member
It's too late for a change now. This is happening so you better get used to it. It sucks for Britain, especially Scotland, but the remaining Euro-sceptical countries like Italy need to learn the what exiting actually means.
I don't think they put much thought into it beyond "Fix it"
excelsiorlef
Member
Corbyn sucks
Still way too many people think this is a good idea for there to be any kind of meaningful backlash.
I'm am at the Ray Paterson stage now.
https://youtu.be/Yi0uX2sZuFg
I'm am at the Ray Paterson stage now.
https://youtu.be/Yi0uX2sZuFg
I believe all the EU countries have to agree to an extension - good luck with that one, May cap in hand. I'm not sure about a change of mind. Maybe the UK can untrigger themselves.
SporeCrawler
Member
what cameron should have done was to trigger new elections were all parties would present their plans
you do realize that two additional years would be worse for UK due to uncertainty
you do realize that two additional years would be worse for UK due to uncertainty
MatrixMan.EXE
Member
Good, I hate this woman. Her scorched earth mentality in these Brexit plans is painful to watch.
Dear UK
There won't be a soft Brexit, stop dreaming
Yours kindly
The EU
Edit : just to be clear, European leaders have made it perfectly clear to May that she won't get any deals. Heck they made it perfectly clear to Cameron before he even did his referundum. What exactly are people expecting out of her? She's beeing shown the door by Europe who wants it to be over with asap so that they can focus on more pressing matters, like eastern Europe
There won't be a soft Brexit, stop dreaming
Yours kindly
The EU
Edit : just to be clear, European leaders have made it perfectly clear to May that she won't get any deals. Heck they made it perfectly clear to Cameron before he even did his referundum. What exactly are people expecting out of her? She's beeing shown the door by Europe who wants it to be over with asap so that they can focus on more pressing matters, like eastern Europe
Defaulting to WTO rules? Would the UK even stay in the WTO after Brexit?
It's easy to want to destroy the system, it's hard to come up with a real alternative and not pies in the sky. The only way for a mainstream party to compete with the populists is by promising similar bullshit but they'll get crushed at the next election. The far right's plan is pretty much "there will be no next election".
It's easy to want to destroy the system, it's hard to come up with a real alternative and not pies in the sky. The only way for a mainstream party to compete with the populists is by promising similar bullshit but they'll get crushed at the next election. The far right's plan is pretty much "there will be no next election".
IdreamofHIME
Member
Blair was just Tory Lite. Not much socialist about New Labour, just more liberal than the Tories and making promises that could be kept unlike the Lib Dems.
But while they enjoyed that decade of gobbling up prime English votes, they didn't notice the SNP in Scotland making a grab for the socialist baton and in turn losing Labours heartland.
Labours up shit creek, because England doesn't want Socialism and Scotland is quite happy with how things are running at the moment.
I hate Corbyn, but I also respect him. He's on a hiding to nothing, but at least he's standing up and taking the heat. At the same time none of the big long lasting Labour beasts were prepared to put their heads on the block knowing they can't win an election. Too worries about their career than the actual country.
There were rumours about Germany being ready to make a deal with the UK to make all of this not terrible. According to the EU's Budget Minister Germany will lose 1 billion Euros because of Brexit.
Blair presided over one of the most redistributive governments in modern UK politics. The notion that he was 'Tory-lite' is so ridiculously far from the truth when it comes to his actual *policy* and the things he did it's bananas. Tony Blair accomplished more for the poor in this country than Jeremy Corbyn ever will do.
The Iraq War was fucked up, but if you think things like sure start, LGBT rights, minimum wage, reductions in child and elderly poverty, massive NHS and education funding increases were all 'Tory-lite' schemes you haven't been paying much attention to what the tories actually do.
I went from a Prinary School creaking at the seams under the Tories to a Secondary School flush with cash in the early labour years. When I look at the school funding my nephews are seeing under this government, I'd have to be blind not to see the difference between two administrations which are the same in some people's eyes.
At least the oldest has the luck to go to a school that was built with Blair money, so at least the buildings are okay
gutter_trash
Banned
Remain forces should just dump Labour and support Lib-Dems instead
Labour is dead
Labour is dead
Lord Frieza
Member
Buyer's remorse is on the rise in the UK and the US. I think it'll only increase as time goes on and the consequences continue on.
For the good of the world Brexit has to be a failure. Either by the population managing to stop it before it happens and giving in that even the UK needs to support further integration. Or by going hard and really hurting the economy. It will hurt a lot of people but it will be necessary to dismotivate people voting similar in other countries. If it is a success, we are screwed with Russia and the US like this.
I still just can't grasp how the entire British government, opposition and judiciary included, are apparently okay with taking the results of an informing referendum, a referendum where people had no idea what the implications and ramifications of their vote would look like (they still don't), and take its very small margin as gospel. I just can't shake the feeling something else is pushing for a Brexit and I'm not seeing the entire picture.
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