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[Arrogant Bastard]

Maybe I just consider some other issues to be more important.

Cool, now we are moving towards a discussion. Which issues?

 

[Monocle]

"I've got nothing to lose so fuck those that do"

It's like they think their taxes have absolutely nothing to do with the roaring river of funds the government directly and indirectly spends on people who are too poor and uneducated to stay healthy and care for themselves and fulfill their potential—which, if they could, would strengthen the economy and collectively save millions by relieving the country of the countless expenses associated with sick and unproductive people in the most agreeable way for everyone.

Nah, let's hope the Republicans win so they can keep those dirty poors down, with no consequences for the rest of us.

 

[WanderingWind]

I have no idea what you are on about.

Yes, you do. You just think you're being clever by pretending otherwise. You're not.

 

[HariKari]

There's plenty of support for Bernie on GAF, just no tolerance for those that would switch to Trump. Because voting for Trump is voting against Sanders's whole platform.

Has anyone actually admitted to switching to Trump in the general? I've yet to see it. It seems to be a compltely made up notion, because "Bernie bros" will be pout and do it out of spite, or so the argument goes.

 

[MGrant]

Still speaking from a place of extreme privilege. You think minorities don't feel the same way?! Minorities have felt this way since they got the right to vote. Our voices have NEVER been fully represented in this country. But you know what? We don't shrug and go "whelp!".

My privilege aside, you're right, of course, that Democrats have done the exact same thing to the minority supporters that they have done to their further-Left supporters. They've deliberately tried to stop people of color from getting into positions of voice or power within the party establishment. The minority vote catapulted Obama to success in the South, but did they prosper significantly more than they would have under McCain or Romney? Or did things pretty much stay the same?

Since you realize this, what are you doing about it? Because continuing to vote these bastards into office isn't going to change the situation. Black Lives Matter, love em or hate em, are one of the few organizations out there actually practicing politics. I know Trump is bad. Real bad. And if you live in a swing state, it's the right move to vote for Hillary in the general.

But seriously. Coming in here and popping off about privilege and white Bernie supporters may feel cathartic, but it's not an argument for Hilary, and it's damn sure not an argument against their valid concerns with the way the Democratic party has been acting. Shaming people because they don't vote the way you want them to as racists and hipster fucks is nonsensical; they disagree with you about what our priorities should be when trying to right the complete shipwreck of a country we're from, but I think if you attempt an actual discourse with them you'll find they agree with your desires and are more than willing to work together to find ways to achieve them.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

Yes, you do. You just think you're being clever by pretending otherwise. You're not.

So you're just blathering.

Cool.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Has anyone actually admitted to switching to Trump in the general? I've yet to see it. It seems to be a compltely made up notion, because "Bernie bros" will be pout and do it out of spite, or so the argument goes.

Not enough to make it a trend, but enough to use it as anecdotal evidence.

One is even in this thread.

 

[Sai-kun]

Maybe I just consider some other issues to be more important.

More important than your own human rights? What state are you in, man?

Edit: which is fine btw, but kind of still mind blowing to me haha.

 

[Makai]

They don't seem to post on GAF.

Read the first few pages of PoliGAF!

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

And yet you say things like this:

There are black Trumplings, hell even Muslim and Hispanic ones. It's a cold, complicated world

 

[MIMIC]

if that vote for the war is enough for you to give power towards trump, you must really, really despise most of the population in the country considering how many people wanted to invade (with much worse and more emotional reasoning than hillary i might add)

but do what you want. if the dozens and dozens of people here (who are more eloquent than me) explaining to you and others why what you're planning to do is harmful towards the country, isn't enough, so be it.

I'm not concerned with how many people wanted to invade (another tired excuse that was repeated over and over). Enough people knew it was wrong from the get-go.

And you can keep repeating that line about "not voting for Hillary" = "a vote for Trump" (which all of these posts tend to resort to to distract from the seriousness of the issue).

 

[Mael]

My privilege aside, you're right, of course, that Democrats have done the exact same thing to the minority supporters that they have done to their further-Left supporters. They've deliberately tried to stop people of color from getting into positions of voice or power within the party establishment. The minority vote catapulted Obama to success in the South, but did they prosper significantly more than they would have under McCain or Romney? Or did things pretty much stay the same?

To begin with some have healthcare that they sure as hell wouldn't.
You're seriously dellusional if you think they would have gotten anything at all from McCain or Romney

 

[cdyhybrid]

My privilege aside, you're right, of course, that Democrats have done the exact same thing to the minority supporters that they have done to their further-Left supporters. They've deliberately tried to stop people of color from getting into positions of voice or power within the party establishment. The minority vote catapulted Obama to success in the South, but did they prosper significantly more than they would have under McCain or Romney? Or did things pretty much stay the same?

Since you realize this, what are you doing about it? Because continuing to vote these bastards into office isn't going to change the situation. Black Lives Matter, love em or hate em, are one of the few organizations out there actually practicing politics. I know Trump is bad. Real bad. And if you live in a swing state, it's the right move to vote for Hillary in the general.

But seriously. Coming in here and popping off about privilege and white Bernie supporters may feel cathartic, but it's not an argument for Hilary, and it's damn sure not an argument against their valid concerns with the way the Democratic party has been acting. Shaming people because they don't vote the way you want them to as racists and hipster fucks is nonsensical; they disagree with you about what our priorities should be when trying to right the complete shipwreck of a country we're from, but I think if you attempt an actual discourse with them you'll find they agree with your desires and are more than willing to work together to find ways to achieve them.

Questioning people that would vote for Trump over Hillary is not a ringing endorsement of every position Hillary takes. It's a question of lesser evils, and there's a pretty clear answer.

 

[Arrogant Bastard]

And you can keep repeating that line about "not voting for Hillary" = "a vote for Trump" (which all of these posts tend to resort to to distract from the seriousness of the issue).

Seriousness of the issue, which would be what exactly?

 

[The Technomancer]

I have yet to see a good argument for the utility of not voting. I hear lots of moral arguments about not wanting to make "endorsements" and such, but not voting has not yet been framed as an actual activity that spurs change. Bernie has changed things, regardless of any impending loss in the primary. Not voting in November doesn't, at that point, do anything to further his objectives and runs a real risk of contributing to regression. Hillary will be better on something than the alternative. Even if she's identical to Cruz on 95% of the issues but has an actionable plan to improve public schools or whatever her being in office would be a net positive for US citizens compared to the alternative

 

[CrankyKong]

so many people were disappointed with obama but he was supposed to be the better one.
hillary is gonna be like one long fog of misery

 

[Brutalitops]

Cool, now we are moving towards a discussion. Which issues?

Firstly I was never delaying a discussion of any kind. Secondly the real number one important issue for me is healthcare, and it will stand far above all else, followed by taxes.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Has anyone actually admitted to switching to Trump in the general? I've yet to see it. It seems to be a compltely made up notion, because "Bernie bros" will be pout and do it out of spite, or so the argument goes.

There have been several posts saying exactly that across the various threads of the past few weeks, most markedly during the mid-Feb primaries. Haven't seen it outside of Gaf/Reddit, though.

 

[WanderingWind]

So you're just blathering.

Cool.

Try harder, kid.

 

[cdyhybrid]

I have yet to see a good argument for the utility of not voting. I hear lots of moral arguments about not wanting to make "endorsements" and such, but not voting has not yet been framed as an actual activity that spurs change. Bernie has changed things, regardless of any impending loss in the primary. Not voting in November doesn't, at that point, do anything to further his objectives and runs a real risk of contributing to regression

There is no argument. Even a write-in vote for Ozzy Osborne is more valuable than staying home.

 

[Pandaman]

They don't seem to post on GAF.

You kidding?

Bernie Sanders is unelectable in a general election. A vote for him was ultimately a vote for shifting the country rightward due to the inevitable Republican victory and domination of every level of government.

God, this Castro stuff is reminding me why Bernie Sanders is COMPLETELY unelectable in the general. Shit, even Trump could beat him.

Completely unelectable in the general, going by some arguments seen here he might even lose some of the black vote because voting for Bernie would be a sure republican win.

Why do you think the GOP wants Sanders to win the nomination?

I'm not sure what I'll do during the general election, but if he's the nominee I either skip the Presidential column and only vote local races or see what's happening in third-party land.

Because Bernie is unelectable in the general.

Thats a brief perusal of page #1 of searching "bernie" "unelectable" on gaf.

Whole lot of people seem very comfortable with large contingents of the democratic party selling out ideals, seems very strange to then make an issue of a few protest votes.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

Firstly I was never delaying a discussion of any kind. Secondly the real number one important issue for me is healthcare, and it will stand far above all else, followed by taxes.

Define healthcare. Meaning, are you saying you support ACA?

 

[Arrogant Bastard]

so many people were disappointed with obama but he was supposed to be the better one.
hillary is gonna be like one long fog of misery

If you aren't disappointed by politicians you haven't lived long enough. What you promise on the trail is fraction of what you can actually get done. It isn't like Obama was going to roll in on a white horse and decree things from a pulpit.

 

[MIMIC]

Seriousness of the issue, which would be what exactly?

Hillary's position on the Iraq war in 2003, the damage it did and the thousands of U.S. soldiers who died as a result.

 

[Monocle]

I have yet to see a good argument for the utility of not voting. I hear lots of moral arguments about not wanting to make "endorsements" and such, but not voting has not yet been framed as an actual activity that spurs change. Bernie has changed things, regardless of any impending loss in the primary. Not voting in November doesn't, at that point, do anything to further his objectives and runs a real risk of contributing to regression

Not voting just means you're literally not heard. There's absolutely no way for anyone to distinguish Person A's lofty ideology from Person B's drunken stupor on voting day. The government can only account for those who cast their ballot.

If you don't vote, have fun not mattering. And, because it can't be repeated enough, enjoy sticking it to all the less privileged people who can't vote to preserve their own rights.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

Try harder, kid.

LOL.

An exchange of nothing. Congrats on the post count, dude.

 

[Brutalitops]

Define healthcare. Meaning, are you saying you support ACA?

Affordable health care yes.

 

[IrishNinja]

Stellar work there, OP. Truly, you are among the enlightened few.

could've been less vitriolic but the line about progressives ain't wrong, fam
kinda the main point i thought

Not voting for Hillary seems functionally identical to claims that Bernie is unelectable but nobody gets mad at the Hillary supports who are presumed to abandon the party en-masse if Bernie won.

i read this post several times and the last line still stumps me, where is that born from?

Man, some of the posts ITT really make me want to see Trump win.

To be honest none of the contentious issues this election are massively relevant to my situation so it makes no difference to me who wins.

Angelus Errare does to these threads what Slayven does to comic ones

You kidding?

Thats a brief perusal of page #1 of searching "bernie" "unelectable" on gaf.

for context: that castro stuff was huge, as an FL resident - a state he'd very much have needed, to stay viable. not at least walking that kinda shit back a bit before playing down here really plays the narrative that his campaign has been tone-deaf to the very groups it wishes to ride for...and again, i say this as someone who would've voted for him in the GE

 

[GuessMyUserName]

Has anyone actually admitted to switching to Trump in the general? I've yet to see it. It seems to be a compltely made up notion, because "Bernie bros" will be pout and do it out of spite, or so the argument goes.

They've definitely made a presence, even if vocal, over-emphasized minority

Although it does also trickle into the more numerous saying "Bernie or sit out / third-party" since, as often stated, it's effectively +1 Trump. But that's a bit more grey grounds depending how people defend that choice - not something stupid like "Hillary and Trump are the same".

Either way the point is that there's practically zero "Hillary or nothing (+1 Trump)"

 

[Arrogant Bastard]

You kidding?

Thats a brief perusal of page #1 of searching "bernie" "unelectable" on gaf.

What does any of that have to do with leaving the party.

The whole point was that Hillary voters would accept Bernie, vs. Bernie voters not accepting Hillary as the nominee.

 

[WanderingWind]

I have yet to see a good argument for the utility of not voting. I hear lots of moral arguments about not wanting to make "endorsements" and such, but not voting has not yet been framed as an actual activity that spurs change. Bernie has changed things, regardless of any impending loss in the primary. Not voting in November doesn't, at that point, do anything to further his objectives and runs a real risk of contributing to regression. Hillary will be better on something than the alternative. Even if she's identical to Cruz on 95% of the issues but has an actionable plan to improve public schools or whatever her being in office would be a net positive for US citizens compared to the alternative

The problem is very much wrapped in how Hillary has run her entire campaign. Early and continuing criticism about how she was framing her run was that she was owed votes. That it was her time. Her supporters continue to use that narrative, well after she refocused when it became clear that Sanders was a real threat.

So, now, when it comes down to brass tacks and people who outright dislike her are being told that yes, you owe her your vote, it's extremely galling. You can sit here and argue about right or wrong all day long, but that won't change a thing. If anything, it galvanizes the anti-Hillary crowd. Because all along, they've been told that voting for Hillary is just the right thing to do and any other vote is wasteful.

LOL.

An exchange of nothing. Congrats on the post count, dude.

One day, if you're lucky, you'll grow out of this. Dude.

could've been less vitriolic but the line about progressives ain't wrong, fam
kinda the main point i thought

And that's my point. If you think you're doing anything besides feeding into the anti-Hillary sentiment by opening with a salvo of "you're a fucking asshole" then you're dead wrong. If you want to affect change - and not simply rant to feel better about "your" side, it's self-defeating in the worst way.

 

[Pandaman]

What does any of that have to do with leaving the party.

The whole point was that Hillary voters would accept Bernie, vs. Bernie voters not accepting Hillary as the nominee.

The entire premise of saying Bernie is unelectable is that people who would otherwise vote Hillary would not accept Bernie.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

Affordable health care yes.

So how would Trump winning, help this? Why would you want him to win for the left fall out on websites if it meant your access to Healthcare could be compromised?

How is that logic sound?

 

[pigeon]

You kidding?












Thats a brief perusal of page #1 of searching "bernie" "unelectable" on gaf.

Wait, wait, wait. Saying Bernie is unelectable is not at all the same as saying that you wouldn't vote for Hillary in the general. It's just saying that SOMEBODY wouldn't vote for Bernie in the general. Those are not meaningfully comparable!

I was saying that it would be reasonable to yell at anybody who said they'd prefer Trump to Bernie -- in fact, I remember having done that yelling -- but that there are very few such people on GAF as far as I can tell. So no point in making angry threads about them.

 

[Arrogant Bastard]

Hillary's position on the Iraq war in 2003, the damage it did and the thousands of U.S. soldiers who died as a result.

Oh please.

Wait, wait, wait. Saying Bernie is unelectable is not at all the same as saying that you wouldn't vote for Hillary in the general. It's just saying that SOMEBODY wouldn't vote for Bernie in the general. Those are not meaningfully comparable!

I was saying that it would be reasonable to yell at anybody who said they'd prefer Trump to Bernie -- in fact, I remember having done that yelling -- but that there are very few such people on GAF as far as I can tell. So no point in making angry threads about them.

Nod.

 

[Makai]

Here's a Hillary fan who will vote Trump if Bernie wins

You know what? A couple of hours ago, I had a revelation that if Bernie wins the nomination, I'm going to vote for Trump. I would rather throw the election to the republicans for four years and let them continue to destroy their own party and embitter Americans than let Bernie complete the polarization of the democratic party the same way the wingnut-right has completed theirs. Then we can let Clinton run again in 4 years and save the country, and Sanders will be dead by then. That's how I feel.

Bernie Sanders is a demagogue. He's wrong about everything, he's impervious to facts, he's excessively reductionist, he's unqualified, and the worst thing of all: he's not even a Democrat. If you want to run the progressive movement into the ground and see meaningful college reform, financial system reform, and healthcare reform all disappear in front of our very eyes, go ahead and vote Sanders. Me, the only president I would be happy with is currently the only Democrat running for office.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Hillary's position on the Iraq war in 2003, the damage it did and the thousands of U.S. soldiers who died as a result.

Biden voted for it too, as did Kerry.

It sucks, and if that's a deal-breaker for you then I accept that position.

I still think you should vote, if only to keep the deranged sociopathic racist out of office, but it's your vote.

 

[Pandaman]

Wait, wait, wait. Saying Bernie is unelectable is not at all the same as saying that you wouldn't vote for Hillary in the general. It's just saying that SOMEBODY wouldn't vote for Bernie in the general. Those are not meaningfully comparable!

I was saying that it would be reasonable to yell at anybody who said they'd prefer Trump to Bernie -- in fact, I remember having done that yelling -- but that there are very few such people on GAF as far as I can tell. So no point in making angry threads about them.

One of those quotes is a poster specifically saying he himself would abstain from voting or go third party.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

Oh please.

By that logic, Trump didn't vote for the Iraq war.

 

[Brutalitops]

So how would Trump winning, help this? Why would you want him to win for the left fall out on websites if it meant your access to Healthcare could be compromised?

How is that logic sound?

Well if you'd read my posts you'd see I would prefer Hillary win. Though I don't find Trumps healthcare plan as awful as I expected to, as he is in favour of universal health care. So I'm not going to be devastated with the alternative though I do have a preference.

 

[MIMIC]

Oh please.

Amazing.

 

[Monocle]

Here's a Hillary fan who will vote Trump if Bernie wins

Interesting that there's no mention of the regular people who would suffer under a Trump presidency. Nope, politics is just a game!

 

[pigeon]

Here's a Hillary fan who will vote Trump if Bernie wins

Sure, fair enough. Then the next page of that thread is filled with Hillary supporters telling him he's totally wrong, which is kind of my point. And also Huelen telling him to stick to his guns.

 

[The Technomancer]

The problem is very much wrapped in how Hillary has run her entire campaign. Early and continuing criticism about how she was framing her run was that she was owed votes. That it was her time. Her supporters continue to use that narrative, well after she refocused when it became clear that Sanders was a real threat.

So, now, when it comes down to brass tacks and people who outright dislike her are being told that yes, you owe her your vote, it's extremely galling. You can sit here and argue about right or wrong all day long, but that won't change a thing. If anything, it galvanizes the anti-Hillary crowd. Because all along, they've been told that voting for Hillary is just the right thing to do and any other vote is wasteful.

Sure. Totally fair. I have some similar feelings about how the Bernie campaign has been run, quite frankly. That still wouldn't stop me from voting for him in the general if I had to.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

One day, if you're lucky, you'll grow out of this. Dude.

Aww..he's trying to condescend. How adorable!

💖💖💖

 

[Arrogant Bastard]

Amazing.

I'm sorry I think it is absurd; by that metric Biden, Kerry, and Edwards shouldn't have ran. It is absurd.

 

[Future]

This too; no politician is.

So many pages but couldn't get passed this post. What is this nonsense.

To vote Hillary is to not vote trump. To not realize this means you are apathetic to progress, and might as well stop pretending to give a damn

 

[pigeon]

One of those quotes is a poster specifically saying he himself would abstain from voting or go third party.

Since you didn't include quote tags I can't go back and see how people responded to that post. I would hope negatively.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

Well if you'd read my posts you'd see I would prefer Hillary win. Though I don't find Trumps healthcare plan as awful as I expected to, as he is in favour of universal health care. So I'm not going to be devastated with the alternative though I do have a preference.

I read your posts. I have no idea why someone would want to see someone they don't like, win simply for the lulz.

It's odd, imo.

 

[jorma]

LOL.

An exchange of nothing. Congrats on the post count, dude.

The irony.

They don't seem to post on GAF.

As an outsider looking in with popcorns at hand, I see them around. It's just that the most obnoxious US election-posters are for Hillary, and they're the ones you tend to notice.