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[Ploid 3.0]

It's sad to say, but I didn't vote last election, and I was tempted to vote this election, especially if Bernie was in it, but I live in Mississippi, I could gather a building full of people to vote and it would just be for fun. I'm pretty sure this state belongs to Trump, Confederate History month, or whatever it's called, currently.

 

[cdyhybrid]

There are Senators and Governors who have pledged to abstain or vote for Hillary if Trump is the nominee.

Great.

Get back to me in November.

 

[Arrogant Bastard]

Once again the discussion constantly veers away from Hillary's lack of integrity. That has been proven to anyone who attempts to research it, and bothers me extremely how anyone puts up with it.

Putting up with a political party that elects someone with so much smoke of corruption, without any competition, doesn't deserve my consideration. I'm not at all Hillary would have America's best interests ahead of all other countries even.

Ugh, she had competition this cycle; damn good competition. The fact of the matter is the vast majority of voters want to win. Perhaps if the republican party wasn't so ugh, Trump.

 

[MIMIC]

My point is, ignoring Trump on GAF isn't gonna make him go away anymore than ignoring racism will make it go away.

Racism is not discussed in the same way we discuss Trump. If everything Trump-related was about denouncing everything he stands for, then that would be a different thing.....an encouraging thing.

We don't talk about racism to be "entertained" or "amused" by it.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Racism is not discussed in the same way we discuss Trump. If everything Trump-related was a denouncing everything he stands for, then that would be a different thing.....an encouraging thing.

We don't talk about racism to be "entertained" or "amused" by it.

There are people who don't find Trump entertaining or amusing, mostly those who would actually be affected.

 

[WanderingWind]

You should vote for Hillary because she is the lesser of two evils, if you need a breakdown of her political views hit google.

Honestly, in this day and age it seems rather redundant for me to list it for you.

It isn't open rhetoric to say that the next president is going to shape the SCOTUS for a generation, affirm/rollback ACA/marriage equality/immigration reform/income inequality/etc.

That's too many "yous" to be royal usage. To head this off at the pass, I am not a Bernie supporter, so I have no qualms about voting for Hillary. I am familiar with each candidate, mostly because it's part of my job. Don't assume your candidate of choice is above needing their policies explained to people on the fence. It's not your job to educate anybody, but it is absolutely not redundant to explain platforms to other people who may not be as caught up as you or I.

 

[Wilsongt]

People also tend to forget that when you go and vote, you're not just voting for president. You are also voting for state and local offices, also, which are more important to your everyday life than what the president does.

 

[Arrogant Bastard]

That's too many "yous" to be royal usage. To head this off at the pass, I am not a Bernie supporter, so I have no qualms about voting for Hillary. I am familiar with each candidate, mostly because it's part of my job. Don't assume your candidate of choice is above needing their policies explained to people on the fence. It's not your job to educate anybody, but it is absolutely not redundant to explain platforms to other people who may not be as caught up as you or I.

/twirl

So you had no point other than the philosophical you need to explain to voters why they should vote for you? Thanks.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

Racism is not discussed in the same way we discuss Trump. If everything Trump-related was about denouncing everything he stands for, then that would be a different thing.....an encouraging thing.

We don't talk about racism to be "entertained" or "amused" by it.

What does that have to do with what I said, which is, ignoring him won't make him go away, regardless of how he is discussed. If he isn't discussed on GAF, he will be in other places so, for me, instead of trying to "deflate the balloon" it's better to expose more and more of his fuckery. There is no deflating that balloon.

Hopefully, it will challenge some to re-evaluate their positions.

 

[Laughing Banana]

For a country claiming to be the world leader in democracy, the "democracy" of the US sure is funny to watch. Not only that it actually allows someone like Trump to have an actual, real shot of becoming the leader of the so-called "free-world" but at the same time it also forced probably millions upon millions of people to choose someone that they actually loathed to choose just because that someone is their best bet on stopping Trump's journey that was also born due to how "democracy" in the US works.

No wonder we have even China recently making fun of you folks.

 

[1871]

Neoliberal politics endorsed by the Democratic Party enhances the Republican Party to go farther right. To think of the short term benefits of a Clinton vote (SC nominees that would defend abortion, etc) is overlooking the long term effects over the political landscape as a whole and the economy (growing inequality, immigration managed through simili-Bracero programs, consensus around imperial invasions, etc).

The politics of the lesser evil will produce Trumps.

 

[WanderingWind]

/twirl

So you had no point other than the philosophical you need to explain to voters why they should vote for you? Thanks.

...no. How on earth did you even come to this conclusion? You not understanding what I've clearly stated isn't some "twirl," either. How absurd.

I am very clearly and with very simple sentences, saying that being an asshole to people to get them to vote they way you want is not going to have the desired effect. If you just want to rant, then do it. But again, don't pretend you're doing anything to further your stated cause of getting people to vote for the person you prefer.

 

[cdyhybrid]

For a country claiming to be the world leader in democracy, the "democracy" of the US sure is funny to watch. Not only that it actually allows someone like Trump to have an actual, real shot of becoming the leader of the so-called "free-world" but at the same time it also forced probably millions upon millions of people to choose someone that they actually loathed to choose just because that someone is their best bet on stopping Trump's journey that was also born due to how "democracy" in the US works.

No wonder we have even China recently making fun of you folks.

This makes no sense. If there were a perfect candidate and people actually voted for them, you'd be praising the system. The fact is that there's no perfect candidate and/or no one comes out to vote for them. The fault is with human nature, not the system.

 

[Joey Fox]

Ugh, she had competition this cycle; damn good competition. The fact of the matter is the vast majority of voters want to win. Perhaps if the republican party wasn't so ugh, Trump.

What actual Democrat ran for President besides Hillary Clinton?

With all her current scandal and investigation by the FBI, I can't even fathom how they're risking the lack of competition. It gives a further appearance of corruption across the whole Democratic Party.

 

[Arrogant Bastard]

...no. How on earth did you even come to this conclusion? You not understanding what I've clearly stated isn't some "twirl," either. How absurd.

I am very clearly and with very simple sentences, saying that being an asshole to people to get them to vote they way you want is not going to have the desired effect. If you just want to rant, then do it. But again, don't pretend you're doing anything to further your stated cause of getting people to vote for the person you prefer.

If you are a Bernie supporter who is now voting for Trump...guess what nothing was going to convince you to vote for Hillary in the first place.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/03/hillary-clinton-2016-whats-wrong-with-hillary-213722

This article does a very good job of summarizing pretty much all the things people dislike about Hillary.

Ultimately every candidate has to earn the votes of their constituents. No one is entitled to a vote, whether there are 2 candidates to choose from or 20. If Hillary wants the votes of the left-wing of the Democratic Party which feels abandoned by the current leadership, she need to earn them like anybody else would.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

The fault is with human nature, not the system.

Naw man, it's the system.

Two party system with Citizens United (and virtually unlimited PAC money) = what we are seeing now.

RNC/DNC rules ensure there will never be a true 3rd party.

 

[Dishwalla]

I need to re-register to vote, haven't voted since 2008 but I am voting this year. Don't really have an excuse why I didn't vote in 2012, it was mainly because I was deployed(even though I still could've done an absentee ballot) and I didn't particularly like either candidate at the time and I figured Obama had it in the bag.

 

[MIMIC]

What does that have to do with what I said, which is, ignoring him won't make him go away, regardless of how he is discussed. If he isn't discussed on GAF, he will be in other places so, for me, instead of trying to "deflate the balloon" it's better to expose more and more of his fuckery. There is no deflating that balloon.

Hopefully, it will challenge some to re-evaluate their positions.

Trump got here because every stupid thing he said was repeated 10 thousand times. The media literally made someone on Twitter famous by repeating every ridiculous thing they said. Everyone laughed, and laughed, and laughed....and here we are.

Trump's definitely not going away, but it certainly doesn't help things when we add to his exposure, which only makes him more popular.

 

[WanderingWind]

If you are a Bernie supporter who is now voting for Trump...guess what nothing was going to convince you to vote for Hillary in the first place.

...who is saying otherwise? The thread, or at least every single bit of my participation in it, is about Bernie diehards who will have to make a decision if/when Hillary gets the nomination. The thread title is not not about Bernie supporters voting for Trump. I am not addressing those people, for what I'd consider very obvious reasons.

 

[Laughing Banana]

This makes no sense. If there were a perfect candidate and people actually voted for them, you'd be praising the system. The fact is that there's no perfect candidate and/or no one comes out to vote for them. The fault is with human nature, not the system.

The 2 party system that you folks have--and everything around it that seemed to be designed to ensure that system stays--sure sucks, from where I can see.

 

[cdyhybrid]

Naw man, it's the system.

Two party system with Citizens United (and virtually unlimited PAC money) = what we are seeing now.

RNC/DNC rules ensure there will never be a true 3rd party.

Eh, human nature (greed and sloth) resulted in it being a two-party system. That said, we can take immediate steps to counteract that and provide a better landscape for voters by breaking the two-party system manually. But in an ideal society we would have never been limited to two parties in the first place.

I'm under no illusions that we'll get there without some actual, potentially heavy-handed action. Idealism is meaningless without actual steps taken to get there, no matter how small.

The 2 party system that you folks have--and everything around it that seemed to be designed to ensure that system stays--sure sucks, from where I can see.

Pretty sure most people that do any sort of research into this sort of thing would agree with you. But you can't overhaul the system overnight. Even Bernie winning wouldn't result in drastic change. It's good to have this ideal, but naive to think there will be no obstacles.

 

[lednerg]

These narratives about Bernie voters are getting really old. It's like... hey, look, here is every Hillary voter in 2008:

https://youtu.be/VeGPzk8Oca8

 

[Vagabundo]

I don't like Hillary and never have, but if I had the prospect of a Trump on my electorical horizon I'd be first in line.

I still don't think he has a hope in hell in the general. There is a war chest of inflammatory clips just ready to roll once he gets the nom.

 

[Earthpainting]

If someone truly believes both candidates are equally terrible, I'd challenge it, but I'd understand. It's their prerogative.

If people agree trump is w worse candidate by far, and still refuse to vote for Hillary, then yeah I get mad. People like that are unfortunately the problem and we can't do shit about it. Might as well be endorsing trump if you passively allow him to win by not voting against

I couldn't disagree more with this. If anything is at fault, it would be the incredibly narrow spectrum of choice. Parties and candidates are not entitled to your support. Especially not if their values clash with your own, or if they have not earned your trust/lost your trust. Parties have zero incentive to change if people vote for them anyway as a lesser of two evils. Personally I would have no qualms with voting for a "non-viable" third party if I liked what they were about, as not doing so would just self-perpetuate this problem.

All this 'with us or against us' scaremongering about hypothetical societal doomsday scenarios is something that happens in every American election, and almost half the country has to confront each time. Even if the "wrong" candidate wins, you have a system in place to limit the amount of damage a single election can do. Executive, legislative and judicial powers are usually split in most democracies for this very reason. I understand a SCOTUS position is looming over this election, but that possibility is there in every election as well. In the worst case scenario, you can always rise up as a people and stand up against your government, like so many other citizens have done in the past and present.

If this type of democracy isn't for you and people aren't willing to change it with you, you'll also have the option of moving to another country.

 

[royalan]

What actual Democrat ran for President besides Hillary Clinton?

With all her current scandal and investigation by the FBI, I can't even fathom how they're risking the lack of competition. It gives a further appearance of corruption across the whole Democratic Party.

You realize there were 5 candidates at the start of the Democratic primary season, right?

 

[Arrogant Bastard]

...who is saying otherwise? The thread, or at least every single bit of my participation in it, is about Bernie diehards who will have to make a decision if/when Hillary gets the nomination. The thread title is not not about Bernie supporters voting for Trump. I am not addressing those people, for what I'd consider very obvious reasons.

There isn't a decision to be made, if you truly were a Bernie supporter you are going to vote for Hillary on election day if she is the nominee. Their effective policies aren't going to be different; nor are their appointments.

 

[cdyhybrid]

I couldn't disagree more with this. If anything is at fault, it would be the incredibly narrow spectrum of choice. Parties and candidates are not entitled to your support. Especially not if their values clash with your own, or if they have not earned your trust/lost your trust. Parties have zero incentive to change if people vote for them anyway as a lesser of two evils. Personally I would have no qualms with voting for a "non-viable" third party if I liked what they were about, as not doing so would just self-perpetuate this problem.

All this 'with us or against us' scaremongering about hypothetical societal doomsday scenarios is something that happens in every American election, and almost half the country has to confront each time. Even if the "wrong" candidate wins, you have a system in place to limit the amount of damage a single election can do. Executive, legislative and judicial powers are usually split in most democracies for this very reason. I understand a SCOTUS position is looming over this election, but that possibility is there in every election as well. In the worst case scenario, you can always rise up as a people and stand up against your government, like so many other citizens have done in the past and present.

If this type of democracy isn't for you and people aren't willing to change it with you, you'll also have the option of moving to another country.

The "system in place" only works if the people equally make themselves heard in the lower-level elections.

Trump in the White House with a Democratic House and Senate is much less scary than a Trump in the White House with a Republican House and Senate, but which one do we have right now?

 

[ryutaro's mama]

Trump got here because every stupid thing he said was repeated 10 thousand times. The media literally made someone on Twitter famous by repeating every ridiculous thing they said. Everyone laughed, and laughed, and laughed....and here we are.

Trump's definitely not going away, but it certainly doesn't help things when we add to his exposure, which only makes him more popular.

How will people not talking about Trump, on GAF, fix his exposure issues? I, like most people, get bombarded by Trump nonsense no matter where I am.

The reason people were laughing before was, he seemed so outrageous he would fizzle out and the "real" candidate would emerge. Well, that hasn't happened and now people are shook.

Well, what if his latest fuckery, posted on GAF, inspires some to protest one of his rallies and get it cancelled, ala Chicago? That, imo, is a good thing.

People will post what they post. We can't stop that. However, now that he has more and more of a spotlight, maybe this raises constructive awareness?

 

[Diablos]

Hillary or Sanders would be better than any Republican.

That said, I laugh at the logic that no true progressive would vote for Hillary, and therefore would be better off doing something completely irrational like either writing in Bernie or voting Trump. You do either one of those things, and you're enabling the GOP which is a lot worse than voting Hillary going by this logic.

Furthermore, the next President is quite literally going to define the Supreme Court as either being left or right wing. It cannot be stated enough how important this is. 2016 is quite literally a once in a lifetime opportunity to seize the ideology of the Supreme Court. Hillary would finally make it shift from center-right to left wing. Trump or any other GOPer will make it a conservative court for the rest of your life. which is ABSOLUTELY TERRIFYING. If you care about progressive values, throwing away your vote on a Bernie write in if he doesn't win the nom or voting Trump is one of the most irrational things you could do as a voter.

I don't get the Hillary hate, personally. She has her flaws, all politicians do; she's been doing it for a lot longer than most in the game, and therefore she has more baggage. Frankly, how progresssive she or Bernie is for that matter isn't as relevant as some people make it out to be because either one would be forced to govern with a divided Congress that has the GOP in control of the House of Representatives. They would at best have to defend Obama's legacy, protect the Supreme Court, get budgets passed, use sensible executive action where necessary, and when possible enact bipartisan legislation. 2016 will not be a wave election for Democrats and progressive politics.

I grow to dislike Bernie more and more by the week. His latest tactic of trying to beg superdelegates to back him over Hillary now that he sees himself losing is a bit appalling since he just went around the country telling everyone superdelegates shouldn't matter. Talk about wanting to have it both ways. All of that said, though, I would still vote for him in the GE if he won the Democratic nomination -- I think he'd lose, but I'd still vote for him. It's surprising to me that so many Bernie supporters can't say the same about Hillary if (more like when) she wins the nomination.

People are really angry this election cycle. I get that. This shouldn't prevent you from thinking rationally and going with the best possible choice, which brings me back to my first point: Either of the two candidates running for the Democratic nomination are better than Republicans.

If Bernie actually goes third party and/or enough people write him in over Hillary, we're doomed, though. That's just going to divide the Democratic vote and help Republicans. We're supposed to have our shit together while the GOP tears itself apart heading into a brokered convention.

 

[Rembrandt]

yup, i think it's fucking stupid but hey, people are fucking stupid sometimes.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

You realize there were 5 candidates at the start of the Democratic primary season, right?

No, there was always just one. The Democrats anointed Hillary long ago, that Bernie even got as far as he did was a pretty big surprise to jut about everyone.

 

[King Tubby]

Once again the discussion constantly veers away from Hillary's lack of integrity. That has been proven to anyone who attempts to research it, and bothers me extremely how anyone puts up with it.

Putting up with a political party that elects someone with so much smoke of corruption, without any competition, doesn't deserve my consideration. I'm not at all Hillary would have America's best interests ahead of all other countries even.

I prefer Sanders; I think Hillary lies out of both sides of her mouth and has some troubling foreign and domestic policy positions. Keeping other country's interests above America's, though? There's no evidence of that. She's not a goddamn Manchurian candidate.

Trump is basically the candidate of the KKK, the Great Wall across the Rio Grande, and war crimes as a military strategy. He is the candidate of people who think the best way to keep money out of politics is by voting for a billionaire.

If you don't want to vote for either, fine, that's your right. I have no qualms about considering Trump supporters to be idiots or bigots.

I don't get the Hillary hate, personally. She has her flaws, all politicians do; she's been doing it for a lot longer than most in the game, and therefore she has more baggage. Frankly, how progresssive she or Bernie is for that matter isn't as relevant as some people make it out to be because either one would be forced to govern with a divided Congress that has the GOP in control of the House of Representatives. They would at best have to defend Obama's legacy, protect the Supreme Court, get budgets passed, use sensible executive action where necessary, and when possible enact bipartisan legislation. 2016 will not be a wave election for Democrats and progressive politics.

So now we've gotten to the point that the politics of your candidate for president don't matter as long as they're left of some mythical breaking point that the Republicans define because *throws hands up* what can ya do? You undermined your whole post with that. Of course it's relevant.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

DIABLOS!!!💖💖💖

Where is my Sylvester gif when I need it?!?

 

[Dark Ninja]

 

[WanderingWind]

There isn't a decision to be made, if you truly were a Bernie supporter you are going to vote for Hillary on election day if she is the nominee. Their effective policies aren't going to be different; nor are their appointments.

Yes, there is a decision to be made. Bernie supporters, if/when Hillary get the nom, will factually have to decide what to do next. You consider it an easy decision. Clearly, that's not true of everybody.

 

[royalan]

No, there was always just one. The Democrats anointed Hillary long ago, that Bernie even got as far as he did was a pretty big surprise to jut about everyone.

You realize that Hillary Clinton, the apparent Anointed One, has run for president before, and lost, right?

That Bernie lost isn't some sort of expected outcome of running against the titan Hillary Clinton. It's the result of his weakness as a candidate. Because, as Obama proved, she can be beaten.

 

[TAJ]

If Obama is anything to go by, Hillary will be playing 8-dimensional chess and nominate a conservative or a moderate, not a liberal.

At the beginning of her term? You can't be serious.

Well, my man Carson's plan was a flat 14.9, no death tax, people like myself at below median income would not be charged until any money after 1.5x poverty line is earned, and the only funds after. Also no death tax.

Seemed good to me. Again, every voter and every Bernie Voter is different.

Your parents have over $5 million? That explains so much.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

You realize that Hillary Clinton, the apparent Anointed One, has run for president before, and lost, right?

That Bernie lost isn't some sort of expected outcome of running against the titan Hillary Clinton. It's the result of his weakness as a candidate. Because, as Obama proved, she can be beaten.

People forget how favored HilDawg was going into the 2008 playoffs, er primaries. She was essentially the 2007 Patriots playing the Giants.

And we know how that turned out.

 

[MIMIC]

How will people not talking about Trump, on GAF, fix his exposure issues? I, like most people, get bombarded by Trump nonsense no matter where I am.

The reason people were laughing before was, he seemed so outrageous he would fizzle out and the "real" candidate would emerge. Well, that hasn't happened and now people are shook.

Well, what if his latest fuckery, posted on GAF, inspires some to protest one of his rallies and get it cancelled, ala Chicago? That, imo, is a good thing.

People will post what they post. We can't stop that. However, now that he has more and more of a spotlight, maybe this raises constructive awareness?

Well maybe we are past the point where ignoring him would have been beneficial.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Naw man, it's the system.

Two party system with Citizens United (and virtually unlimited PAC money) = what we are seeing now.

RNC/DNC rules ensure there will never be a true 3rd party.

The absolute majority requirement or the house picks the President is why it's a two party system.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

The absolute majority requirement or the house picks the President is why it's a two party system.

Sure, but you get my point.

 

[Subpar Scrub]

All these threads filled with arguing that never changes any opinions on here are getting stale too.

Just vote for whoever you want, guys. Not that hard.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Sure, but you get my point.

It's nothing to do with DNC and the RNC though.

They could both die somehow and it'd still end up a two party system under different names.

You have no minority or coalition government options.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Well maybe we are past the point where ignoring him would have been beneficial.

Anyone who was alive in 1992 and 2000 would have known to not ignore Trump. The Republicans seemed baffled by Trump as if Ross Perot never happened. The Democrats were for some reason baffled by Nader just 8 years later even after they saw what happened in 1992 which is how Bill Clinton even became President.

The 2 major parties seem completely lost when someone other than their Chosen One dares to challenge the One, it actually worked out and nation was lucky in 1992 and 2008 because we got Bill Clinton and Obama. The nation and the world were very unlucky in 2000 because we got W. The world is still suffering because of Nader's intransigence even in the face of disaster and the Republicans' brilliant tactics in stealing that election.

But the fact that both major parties are now regularly facing challenges to their Baptism Process and seem to not understand that it's because the people don't want the establishment candidates they are trying to shove down the people's throats has reached a critical breaking point with Trump. In 2024 it might be the Democrats who get broken by an insurgent candidate, they lucked out that Bernie had absolutely no credibility with people over the age of 40 who vote Democrat.

No lessons will be learned by Trump I'm sure, both parties have an establishment that is so sclerotic they'll just keep trying the same thing over and over again until it completely fails as is the case with Trump. The Republicans clearly never heard of the definition of insanity. It's threatening to destroy their party.

 

[ginger ninja]

Only makes you an over-priviledged white male with little sympathy for minorities, but okay.

Saying this as a minority, that this line of thinking is utterly ridiculous to me. It's up to citizens to use their vote how they see fit, not how it may adversely effect one group of people or another. That's the whole point of democracy. You gotta be able to accept the good with the bad.

For the record, I don't like Hilary and I am voting for whoever the Democratic nominee is because trump will be the end of this country, probably worse than Nixon.

 

[WanderingWind]

Saying this as a minority, that this line of thinking is utterly ridiculous to me. It's up to citizens to use their vote how they see fit, not how it may adversely effect one group of people or another. That's the whole point of democracy. You gotta be able to accept the good with the bad.

Gingers aren't a real minority, bro.

Spoiler

Kidding. Just kidding.

 

[Zelias]

Not American, but I do support Sanders. However, if I was American and the election comes down to Clinton v Trump, I would be voting against Trump in a heartbeat. Seems obvious to me that Clinton would be a better choice even if I don't personally like her.

 

[MIMIC]

Anyone who was alive in 1992 and 2000 would have known to not ignore Trump. The Republicans seemed baffled by Trump as if Ross Perot never happened. The Democrats were for some reason baffled by Nader just 8 years later even after they saw what happened in 1992 which is how Bill Clinton even became President.

No, not to not see him as a problem. I'm talking about the repeated exposure (for the wrong reasons). It's like how Sarah Palin got famous; not for her political ideas, but for how "catch-phrasey" she became.

It's like reality TV, but played in the news media.

 

[BobbyRobby]

You can't shame people once they're in the voting booth.

If you don't wanna vote Hillary, that's on you. If you're upset you once again had to choose between the lesser of two evils, you should vote third party. I don't care who, but not voting at all does nothing.

Our country is becoming really polarized, and we need more options to pull people out of their trenches.