This "More Buttons" Trend Needs to STOP*
- Thread starter Foreign Jackass
- Start date
Foreign Jackass
Member
God, people are really sensitive about their controllers, aren't they. I'm just making a general statement. I don't ****ing care about the Wii's controller. I'M MAKING A GENERAL COMPARISON BETWEEN DIFFERENT GENERATIONS AND THE CONSTANT ADDITION OF BUTTONS.
Is it really that hard to understand?
Is it really that hard to understand?
Foreign Jackass
Member
ARGHHHHHHHHHH BUTTONNNNNNSSSTieno said:
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Mac the KNife said:
just like the PS3 right?
ferrarimanf355
Banned
Oh lord, the nightmares I had over that thing...Razoric said:
This isn't an argument either way just pointing something out and I don't know if anyone else has had similar experiences but if you hand a post 16-bit era controller to a non-gamer/parent the amount of buttons will be the first stumbling block for a fair few.
Personally, it's never been a problem. I can't see a console controller (Gamecube ASCIIs and alike aside) ever having more controls than a mouse and keyboard setup and PC gaming control has never been an issue for me.
Personally, it's never been a problem. I can't see a console controller (Gamecube ASCIIs and alike aside) ever having more controls than a mouse and keyboard setup and PC gaming control has never been an issue for me.
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
why should we care if the non-gamers are overwhelmed with more than 8 buttons on a controller? why do we want games to get simpler rather than more complex?
GoldenEye 007
Member
Yeah but the - and + buttons are not gameplay related. 4 buttons vertically and 6 max horizontally. With the nunchuk it is 6 buttons total plus an analog stick.KimiSan said:
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
F#A#Oo said:
Sarcasm is always best at GAF. :lol
Foreign Jackass
Member
more complex controls != more complex games
I'm just saying, maybe we've reached the point where we should find something else or stick with what we've got, cause it's getting just too complex. I think the Wii's controller is a step in the right direction, but we're gonna need something more complex than this. Prolly something in the middle. I don't know what, though.
I'm just saying, maybe we've reached the point where we should find something else or stick with what we've got, cause it's getting just too complex. I think the Wii's controller is a step in the right direction, but we're gonna need something more complex than this. Prolly something in the middle. I don't know what, though.
davepoobond said:
Yes. Let us keep our elitist hobby to ourselves. The unwashed masses simply aren't worthy of taking part in our wonderful habit of paying exorbitant amounts of money to play the same crap again and again. It is our right, and our right alone, to purchase titles where we enact our teenage power fantasies in dark living rooms for hours on end.
Or we could do the sane thing and develop some titles that are wonderfully deep and rich and last for 60 hours and attract a select few, and titles that are quick and easy and fun and can be played by anyone.
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
Campster said:
there's a reason why "high-concept" films aren't usually proclaimed as classics.
Cosmonaut X
Member
KimiSan said:
...on the remote alone, that is (and that's not counting the D-pad which can be used as four separate buttons). Throw in the nunchuk and you've got another two triggers. It's also worth remembering that the Home & Power buttons are almost certainly not going to be used in-game, except perhaps as a return to menu option.
If necessary - and I don't know that it would be desirable or practical - you could probably map something like 12 buttons to the remote/nunchuk combo, excluding the Home & Power buttons. Of course, on top of that you've got motion controls for in-game actions that may previously have taken up one or two buttons each.
Foreign Jackass
Member
Feelin' paranoid lately?Razoric said:Again, 'next-gen' controllers have roughly the same amount of buttons as current gen controllers.
So what exactly is the crisis?
Also, bolded part confirms your agenda.
The PS3 added 2 buttons to the PS2 controls, and waggle stuff.
The 360 is similar to Xbox, but those 2 have more buttons than any other controller in history, and there's probably going to be waggle stuff too in the near future, if the trend continues.
The Wii is excluded from this, as I think it's destined to be too simple for it's own good (see what I did there? no agenda!).
Foreign Jackass
Member
Hitchcock says HI, and what the hell is your point anyway?davepoobond said:
You don't make any sense. Get out of my THREAD!
professor_t
Member
Foreign Jackass said:
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
Foreign Jackass said:
what about a keyboard? it has like 50 keys on there. guess we should dump that and go with a cell-phone keyboard
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
Campster said:
kind of like how i'm dumbfounded why the OP thinks there's more buttons on any controller
Larry Bird
Member
:lolCampster said:
Warm Machine
Member
Intellivision had 16 buttons and the 8 direction control disc.
Foreign Jackass
Member
Let's see. W-A-S-D + Mouse 2 buttons and middle rolling thing. That's the only stuff I use. The rest is pretty useless and can be replaced by a mouse interface. For FPS, that is. I rarely use the keyboard that much when a GUI is available, cause I hate having to learn the shortcuts.davepoobond said:
FIXEDdavepoobond said:
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
Foreign Jackass said:
how are you typing all that by just using wasd + mouse 2 buttons?
quite amazing, really.
uh oh. he insulted me.
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
at first glance, it seems that the wiimote+nunchuk is very simple with few buttons, but when you really think about it.. it has a whole bunch.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Campster said:
WHAT THE **** ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT????
These games can be played with few buttons on the PS3.
Plus many many more on Xbox Arcade like Geometry Wars.
The original post was kind of crazy since (as impirius pointed out), the "extra buttons" aren't terribly functional during gameplay.
With that said, I personally feel that modern game controllers are overly complex. The number of buttons and control sticks is daunting enough, but when you have to combine them in various ways in realtime during a game, it can be overwhelming. From an HCI theory point of view, controllers do exploit certain types of natural mappings (button = take action, stick = indicate direction), but including things like buttons that are triggered by pushing on sticks is a lousy design idea.
I know that a lot of people here are going to think I'm crazy (or weaksauce, or both) for thinking that controllers are too complex when most of you have zero problems using them. However, I also suspect that it's easier to master something complex when you learn it for the first time, rather than learning something simple and progressing to something complex. When I was growing up, most controllers had a single D-pad and 2-6 buttons. When I got back into gaming as an adult, I did well with games that had simpler control systems, but struggled with more complicated ones because my learned muscle memory didn't help me juggle, say, using a second analog stick to manipulate a camera. Same thing with FPS games -- I learned how to play them on a PC, but simply cannot adapt to console controls, even though it's basically the same thing.
The problem with making controls simpler is that you do necessarily limit the number of options you have during gameplay. A simple controller which requires complex, precise actions to cause different results (see: Street Fighter) is also very hard to learn. It's a tough design problem...but I do wish that games would have simpler controls and provide more contextual options (e.g. knife at close range, shoot at long range, rather than having separate buttons for each).
One more thing: I'm not necessarily sure that the Wiimote will solve some of these problems. It may very well provide its own usability problems since it now expects the player to map 3-D actions to a 2-D space, which is a different mapping challenge.
With that said, I personally feel that modern game controllers are overly complex. The number of buttons and control sticks is daunting enough, but when you have to combine them in various ways in realtime during a game, it can be overwhelming. From an HCI theory point of view, controllers do exploit certain types of natural mappings (button = take action, stick = indicate direction), but including things like buttons that are triggered by pushing on sticks is a lousy design idea.
I know that a lot of people here are going to think I'm crazy (or weaksauce, or both) for thinking that controllers are too complex when most of you have zero problems using them. However, I also suspect that it's easier to master something complex when you learn it for the first time, rather than learning something simple and progressing to something complex. When I was growing up, most controllers had a single D-pad and 2-6 buttons. When I got back into gaming as an adult, I did well with games that had simpler control systems, but struggled with more complicated ones because my learned muscle memory didn't help me juggle, say, using a second analog stick to manipulate a camera. Same thing with FPS games -- I learned how to play them on a PC, but simply cannot adapt to console controls, even though it's basically the same thing.
The problem with making controls simpler is that you do necessarily limit the number of options you have during gameplay. A simple controller which requires complex, precise actions to cause different results (see: Street Fighter) is also very hard to learn. It's a tough design problem...but I do wish that games would have simpler controls and provide more contextual options (e.g. knife at close range, shoot at long range, rather than having separate buttons for each).
One more thing: I'm not necessarily sure that the Wiimote will solve some of these problems. It may very well provide its own usability problems since it now expects the player to map 3-D actions to a 2-D space, which is a different mapping challenge.
Foreign Jackass
Member
davepoobond said:
I said, FOR FPS, THAT IS.
Typing with keys != learning shortcuts using the same keys
READING LESSONS FTW
Warm Machine
Member
davepoobond said:
Spielberg is said to have invented the term "High Concept". Jaws and Indiana Jones are High Concept films and are both considered classics.
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
Foreign Jackass said:
"what about a keyboard? it has like 50 keys on there. guess we should dump that and go with a cell-phone keyboard"
There are quite a few keys I'd like to drop from keyboards as well, the numpad and function keys for starters. Programs already rely on them though. Maybe we can start with print screen, scroll lock, pause and insert.
There are quite a few keys I'd like to drop from keyboards as well, the numpad and function keys for starters. Programs already rely on them though. Maybe we can start with print screen, scroll lock, pause and insert.
GoldenEye 007
Member
Meh. I never count the d-pad as a button at all. I guess technically it is, but directions are different than actions to me. But with the nunchuk you have analog goodness too! Then more analog in the actual motions of the controllers.Branduil said: